Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:21:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
No experience with them, but I prefer regular wire nuts. I have had >experience with connectors that engineers thought were a good idea,
they were not. First were push down connectors in a Sharp TV. Other
were at Shure Brothers when working in R & D.
If you have a good set of linemans pliers twisting is reasonable.
What kind of wiring? If it is solid core household the pics on Amazon
do not show that.
I would not use the for household 120v.
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:21:50 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
No experience with them, but I prefer regular wire nuts. I have had >experience with connectors that engineers thought were a good idea,
they were not. First were push down connectors in a Sharp TV. Other
were at Shure Brothers when working in R & D.
If you have a good set of linemans pliers twisting is reasonable.
What kind of wiring? If it is solid core household the pics on Amazon
do not show that.
I would not use the for household 120v.
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >rotate once made and tucked away.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >receptacles that have been around for many years.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion.
However the ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >rotate once made and tucked away.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >receptacles that have been around for many years.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 3:13:47 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:The "alimicon" is a FANTASTIC device. - and is CSA approved for use
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion.
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >> >>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >> >> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Alumicons have grease in them. I've used them to slice aluminum wiring to >copper. The CU and AL never come in contact with each other.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/AlumiConn-2-Port-Al-Cu-Wire-Connector-10-Pack-95015/204958912
However the ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I hope you don't mean "Snap Locks" or the various other brands.
https://www.amazon.com/Curt-Manufacturing-58280-CURT-Locks/dp/B001GN6T5U
Worst connectors I've ever used. They *will* eventually fail.
It's strange that Curt, who makes a lot of stuff for trailers, even puts their >name on them. Automotive/exterior environments just eat these things up. >Maybe not in Texas, but don't try them up in the rust belt.
Well actually, the tech makes money on the install and then has a recurring >revenue stream when they fail a few years later. OK, not such a bad idea >after all. ;-)
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
The wagos are a l,ot differentthanthe slide in connectors and WAY differentthan scotch-lock (which can NOT be used on solid wires) The
Wagos and their like are easy to use, pass CSA certificaion for use in canada. I have used a "sample"and was impessed. Can't use them in my
house though as I have aluminum wiring (which they are NOT
approvedfor, and technically, since I am not a licensed electrician, I
can NOT work on (wink wink)
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
The wagos are a l,ot differentthanthe slide in connectors and WAY differentthan scotch-lock (which can NOT be used on solid wires) The
Wagos and their like are easy to use, pass CSA certificaion for use in canada. I have used a "sample"and was impessed. Can't use them in my
house though as I have aluminum wiring (which they are NOT
approvedfor, and technically, since I am not a licensed electrician, I
can NOT work on (wink wink)
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:We caslled them "snap and pray" - the connection WILL corrode and
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem >>>> to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out. >>
fail if they get damp (and maybe even if they don't)
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 3:13:47 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion.
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Alumicons have grease in them. I've used them to slice aluminum wiring to copper. The CU and AL never come in contact with each other.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/AlumiConn-2-Port-Al-Cu-Wire-Connector-10-Pack-95015/204958912
However the ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I hope you don't mean "Snap Locks" or the various other brands.
https://www.amazon.com/Curt-Manufacturing-58280-CURT-Locks/dp/B001GN6T5U
Worst connectors I've ever used. They *will* eventually fail.
It's strange that Curt, who makes a lot of stuff for trailers, even puts their
name on them. Automotive/exterior environments just eat these things up. Maybe not in Texas, but don't try them up in the rust belt.
Well actually, the tech makes money on the install and then has a recurring revenue stream when they fail a few years later. OK, not such a bad idea after all. ;-)
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry,
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem >>>> to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out. >>
though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On 2/16/2022 3:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 3:13:47 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
No, Actually these to be precise on brand. Made by 3M
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchlok-Electrical-560B-BULK-Retardant/dp/B001CGRMGQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=8M6DGQ9X3UV2&keywords=3m%2Bscotch%2Block&qid=1645054043&sprefix=3m%2Bscotch%2Block%2Caps%2C73&sr=8-6&th=1
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
On 2/16/2022 3:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 3:13:47 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
No, Actually these to be precise on brand. Made by 3M
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchlok-Electrical-560B-BULK-Retardant/dp/B001CGRMGQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=8M6DGQ9X3UV2&keywords=3m%2Bscotch%2Block&qid=1645054043&sprefix=3m%2Bscotch%2Block%2Caps%2C73&sr=8-6&th=1
These haven't been code compliant home electrical use for a long time,
I sold a bunch of them back in the 1970's but they ended up
getting pulled from the code. AFAIKT they're only listed for
auto and boats/vans/trailers applications.
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry,
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem >>>>> to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>>>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors >>>>> were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out. >>>
though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school.
At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran
one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry,
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>>>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>>>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>>>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem >>>>>> to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not >>>>>> rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a
gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors >>>>>> were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school.
At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran
one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds
dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry,
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead >>>>>>>> ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections >>>>>>>> in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector. >>>>>>>> It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem >>>>>>> to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors >>>>>>> were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go,
squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the
plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school.
At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran
one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds
dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40. >>
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem >>>>>>>> to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors >>>>>>>> were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school.
At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40. >>>
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive) designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). ANo Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive) designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new
car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry,
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they
weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly
hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >> >>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >> >>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >> >>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >> >>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >> >>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >> >>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >> >>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >> >>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >> >>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >> >>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >> >>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new
car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Did the customer pay the OEM price for the mats? Win Win Lose? ;-)
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors >>>>>>>>> were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40. >>>>
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
tha the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new
car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Don't get me started on Vinyl tops. LOL
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:Absolutely Why would he not? He did not help pay for the inventory.
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>>>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new
car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Did the customer pay the OEM price for the mats? Win Win Lose? ;-)
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:38:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone >>>>>>>>>>> seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no >>>>>>>>> twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Of course now there is a touch screen display (12" in my F150) and a
half dozen antennas. There isn't much of a chance that an
after-market unit will fit. The harness won't be there if the unit
isn't installed. IFAIK, the harnesses are different for each option (package).
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
They must have been Japanese. The US company didn't exist then. They
were making cell phones up until '05 (I think).
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
tha the factory.
There was a big after-market business in radios and "high end" audio amplifiers/speakers, then. It's too complicated now. I
guess it's like computers.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new
car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Don't get me started on Vinyl tops. LOL
Or leather seats. Rust "proofing". "Scotch guard".
And now, financing. I just took a 36mo, 0%, loan to get $1000 back on
my truck. At 0%, why not? I'm sure the dealer got a piece too.
On 2/17/2022 12:17 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:38:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of >>>>>>>>>>> receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and >>>>>>>>> straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>>>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Of course now there is a touch screen display (12" in my F150) and a
half dozen antennas. There isn't much of a chance that an
after-market unit will fit. The harness won't be there if the unit
isn't installed. IFAIK, the harnesses are different for each option
(package).
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
They must have been Japanese. The US company didn't exist then. They
were making cell phones up until '05 (I think).
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
tha the factory.
There was a big after-market business in radios and "high end" audio
amplifiers/speakers, then. It's too complicated now. I
guess it's like computers.
There still is a big aftermarket, at least 5 years ago. I added a touch >screen GPS/Radio/back up camera to my 07 Tundra. That required a new
harness and mounting hardware and face plate.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >>> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Don't get me started on Vinyl tops. LOL
Or leather seats. Rust "proofing". "Scotch guard".
Back then the leather seats were made to order and never quite looked >original. Olds did not offer any protectants back then. That was
always only offered as an add on.
I take that back, Chevrolet came with fabric guard when I bought my 98 >Silverado.
And now, financing. I just took a 36mo, 0%, loan to get $1000 back on
my truck. At 0%, why not? I'm sure the dealer got a piece too.
We normally pay cash for new vehicles. Toyota offered 0% financing for
5 years if we financed at least 7K and we got $500 back. That was on my >wife's 2012 Camry.
I am betting that there are NO deals to be had these days.
On 2/17/2022 12:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and >>>>>>>> straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop
for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Did the customer pay the OEM price for the mats? Win Win Lose? ;-)Absolutely Why would he not? He did not help pay for the inventory.
I got volume pricing. I probably would have given him a discount if he
bought like I did, 100 sets at a time.
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 2:43:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/17/2022 12:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:Absolutely Why would he not? He did not help pay for the inventory.
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>being used.
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab. >>>>>>>>>>> The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're >>>>>>>>>>> just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the >>>>>>>>>> ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation. >>>>>>>>>> The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and >>>>>>>>>> straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds >>>>>>>> dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A >>>>> Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics. >>>> No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor >>>> back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware. >>>>
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop >>>> for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same >>>> brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the >>>> new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >>>> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my >>>> cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Did the customer pay the OEM price for the mats? Win Win Lose? ;-)
I got volume pricing. I probably would have given him a discount if he
bought like I did, 100 sets at a time.
Because even small discounts make for stickier clients and garner referrals.
I've often split my discount with clients even when I knew they would have paid full price. I still made money while they saved money. Sooner or later I'd
get that call "Hey, Jim gave me your name. Let's talk."
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 2:43:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:100%
On 2/17/2022 12:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:Absolutely Why would he not? He did not help pay for the inventory.
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >> >>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them.
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >> >>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line.
Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >> >>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >> >>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and
straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >> >>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >> >>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >> >>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran
one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds
dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A
Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics.
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor
back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop >> >> for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same
brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the
new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >> >> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my
cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win!
Did the customer pay the OEM price for the mats? Win Win Lose? ;-)
I got volume pricing. I probably would have given him a discount if he
bought like I did, 100 sets at a time.
Because even small discounts make for stickier clients and garner referrals.
I've often split my discount with clients even when I knew they would have >paid full price. I still made money while they saved money. Sooner or later I'd
get that call "Hey, Jim gave me your name. Let's talk."
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:53:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/17/2022 12:17 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I was referring to "infotainment" aftermarket stuff. Installed a AiFi
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:38:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and >>>>>>>>>> straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran >>>>>>>> one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds
dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A >>>>> Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics. >>>>
No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor >>>> back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got
them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware.
Of course now there is a touch screen display (12" in my F150) and a
half dozen antennas. There isn't much of a chance that an
after-market unit will fit. The harness won't be there if the unit
isn't installed. IFAIK, the harnesses are different for each option
(package).
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement
radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
They must have been Japanese. The US company didn't exist then. They
were making cell phones up until '05 (I think).
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop >>>> for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can.
There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other
tha the factory.
There was a big after-market business in radios and "high end" audio
amplifiers/speakers, then. It's too complicated now. I
guess it's like computers.
There still is a big aftermarket, at least 5 years ago. I added a touch
screen GPS/Radio/back up camera to my 07 Tundra. That required a new
harness and mounting hardware and face plate.
backup camera on my '13 F150. The only cable harness was to the tail
light (only operated when backup lights on).
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same >>>> brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the >>>> new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >>>> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my >>>> cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win! >>>>
Don't get me started on Vinyl tops. LOL
Or leather seats. Rust "proofing". "Scotch guard".
Back then the leather seats were made to order and never quite looked
original. Olds did not offer any protectants back then. That was
always only offered as an add on.
I take that back, Chevrolet came with fabric guard when I bought my 98
Silverado.
They were "dealer installed options" (but often not optional)
And now, financing. I just took a 36mo, 0%, loan to get $1000 back on
my truck. At 0%, why not? I'm sure the dealer got a piece too.
We normally pay cash for new vehicles. Toyota offered 0% financing for
5 years if we financed at least 7K and we got $500 back. That was on my
wife's 2012 Camry.
We financed $20K but will pay it off soon. Mine as wrecked and I
needed to order one quick (10-12 week delivery). $1000 off plus the
0%. Why refuse? Pay it off next month and pocket the $1000.
I am betting that there are NO deals to be had these days.
Not true. I ordered a '21 F150 in late July and it was delivered mid-November. In total, I paid $10K under the Monroney sticker. $3K
was the X-Plan and the rest was factory rebates (including the $1K for financing). I was shocked when dealer sprung the other $6K in rebates
at delivery. I ended up paying $6K less than I expected when I walked
in. Rebates exist but they have to be rare, particularly on something
as popular as an F150.
Most dealers are, or at least were, charging well above sticker. This dealership wasn't but had very limited inventory. It was going as
soon as it hit the lot.
A friend of my wife's bought an Explorer from the dealership a couple
of weeks ago. Three days later a "little old lady" (none of us could
be accused of being young) turned left right in front of them. Totaled
it.
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 12:19:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 2:43:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:100%
On 2/17/2022 12:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:Absolutely Why would he not? He did not help pay for the inventory.
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>being used.
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and >>>>>>>>>>> straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran
one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds
dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A >>>>>> Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics. >>>>> No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor >>>>> back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got >>>>> them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware. >>>>>
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement >>>>> radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop >>>>> for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can. >>>>> There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other >>>>> than the factory.
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same >>>>> brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the >>>>> new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >>>>> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my >>>>> cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win! >>>>>
Did the customer pay the OEM price for the mats? Win Win Lose? ;-)
I got volume pricing. I probably would have given him a discount if he
bought like I did, 100 sets at a time.
Because even small discounts make for stickier clients and garner referrals. >>
I've often split my discount with clients even when I knew they would have >> paid full price. I still made money while they saved money. Sooner or later I'd
get that call "Hey, Jim gave me your name. Let's talk."
That's how to maintain a retention rate in excess of 100% and get
repeat customers. No matter who MADE the mats, for instance - if the
pakaging did not say Toyota it was a third party mat and legally you
are in jeopardy if you sell it as "genuine Toyota Part" it is illegal.
It has to be called OEM Equivalent or "third party" and if you are
making WAY more on them it is only fair to give a discount - even if
it is only $5
On 2/17/2022 3:08 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:53:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/17/2022 12:17 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I was referring to "infotainment" aftermarket stuff. Installed a AiFi
On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:38:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Of course now there is a touch screen display (12" in my F150) and a
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 18:10:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 6:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:40:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:13:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/16/2022 11:26 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was in the auto industry, >>>>>>>>>> though at the design end, for ten years (just retired).
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:23:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 8:21 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Has anyone used the Wago 221 wiring connectors? I used the three-lead
ones today. They're expensive but even with the number of connections
in my basement, the difference isn't really significant (has anyone
seen what's happened to wiring boxes?).
These are rated very highly but the wire will rotate in the connector.
It won't pull out but it will turn.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.amazon.com/Lever-Nuts-Connector-Assortment-221-412-221-413/dp/B096WQ4RH9/ref=sr_1_17?crid=2LBKY6IDQGNPP&keywords=wago+wire+connectors&qid=1644977743&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-17>
I have see several YouTube viedo's of these at trade shows. They seem
to be a hit with the trades guys.
Rotation is probably not going to be an issue as most connections do not
rotate once made and tucked away.
I was a little concerned about rotation being a signal that they >>>>>>>>>>>> weren't clamped tightly and would cause heating down the line. >>>>>>>>>>>> Watching some youtube videos shows that they're not significantly >>>>>>>>>>>> hotter than wire nuts.
Probably not totally unlike the slide in connections on the back of
receptacles that have been around for many years.
The back-stabs or the screw down sort. I'd never use the back-stab.
The champ on the back of the better outlets is very secure. They're
just as secure, or more so, than a turn around the screw. There is no
twisting a loose wire there. IIRC, this deforms the wire causing a >>>>>>>>>>>> gas-tight connection.
When I was in the automotive business the "Scotch Lock" 3M connectors
were the preferred choice of the electricians vs wire nuts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-Solderless-Electrical-Connector-Insulated/dp/B09B7JYH5V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1B12KQ1CC9UC5&keywords=scotch+lock&qid=1645021391&sprefix=scotch+lock%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3
Those form a gas-tight connection, too, don't they.
Some had a dielectric grease to guard against corrosion. However the
ones I was referencing do not require stripping away the insulation.
The metal tab inside the case cuts through the insulation and >>>>>>>>>>> straddles/grabs the wire.
You insert the ends of the insulated wires as far as they would go, >>>>>>>>>>> squeeze the metal tab down with a pair of pliers, and then snap the >>>>>>>>>>> plastic strap over the connection to prevent the metal tab from coming out.
I started in the auto industry at 17 working part time during school. >>>>>>>>> At 21 I was still working for the same company in another city and ran
one of their tire stores. Then a year later I went to work for an Olds
dealership, 10 years later an AC/Delco distributor until I retired at 40.
I started at a Tier-1 at 59 and retired at 69. ;-)
Is Tier-1 the company? What did they do?
No, a Tier-1 is a direct supplier to an OEM (Ford, GM, Honda,...). A >>>>>> Tier-2 is a supplier to a Tier-1, etc. We (Panasonic Automotive)
designed/made mostly the center-stack and other in-cabin electronics. >>>>>
No Kidding, I thought Philco/Delco/what ever Dodge uses were still
being used.
Delco radios were heavy pieces of,,,,, well a light weight boat anchor >>>>> back in the 70's and 80's.
The new cars department bought every Olds with an AM radio. This got >>>>> them the antenna and the wiring harness/pigtail and mounting hardware. >>>>
half dozen antennas. There isn't much of a chance that an
after-market unit will fit. The harness won't be there if the unit
isn't installed. IFAIK, the harnesses are different for each option
(package).
Then we, in the service department, internally sold them replacement >>>>> radios. IIRC those were Panasonic and looked identical, identical
enough, to place in the vehicle.
They must have been Japanese. The US company didn't exist then. They >>>> were making cell phones up until '05 (I think).
I in turn sold the AM Delco radios to the local Delco radio repair shop >>>>> for $22, the same credit we gave the new car department.
The dealer would have been happy with tossing them in the trash can. >>>>> There was a lot of profit by buying the better radios from some other >>>>> tha the factory.
There was a big after-market business in radios and "high end" audio
amplifiers/speakers, then. It's too complicated now. I
guess it's like computers.
There still is a big aftermarket, at least 5 years ago. I added a touch >>> screen GPS/Radio/back up camera to my 07 Tundra. That required a new
harness and mounting hardware and face plate.
backup camera on my '13 F150. The only cable harness was to the tail
light (only operated when backup lights on).
I even found a local after market distributor that sold the exact same >>>>> brand and style floor mats as factory for about 1/4 the price that the >>>>> new car department was paying.
I told the general manager to quit buying the factory mats with each new >>>>> car and I would supply the same mat, life time warranty, for double my >>>>> cost. He was still getting the mats for 1/2 hi factory cost. Win Win! >>>>>
Don't get me started on Vinyl tops. LOL
Or leather seats. Rust "proofing". "Scotch guard".
Back then the leather seats were made to order and never quite looked
original. Olds did not offer any protectants back then. That was
always only offered as an add on.
I take that back, Chevrolet came with fabric guard when I bought my 98
Silverado.
They were "dealer installed options" (but often not optional)
And now, financing. I just took a 36mo, 0%, loan to get $1000 back on
my truck. At 0%, why not? I'm sure the dealer got a piece too.
We normally pay cash for new vehicles. Toyota offered 0% financing for
5 years if we financed at least 7K and we got $500 back. That was on my >>> wife's 2012 Camry.
We financed $20K but will pay it off soon. Mine as wrecked and I
needed to order one quick (10-12 week delivery). $1000 off plus the
0%. Why refuse? Pay it off next month and pocket the $1000.
Be careful with paying of too quickly, our's required a minimum of at
least 120 days IIRC.
I am betting that there are NO deals to be had these days.
Not true. I ordered a '21 F150 in late July and it was delivered
mid-November. In total, I paid $10K under the Monroney sticker. $3K
was the X-Plan and the rest was factory rebates (including the $1K for
financing). I was shocked when dealer sprung the other $6K in rebates
at delivery. I ended up paying $6K less than I expected when I walked
in. Rebates exist but they have to be rare, particularly on something
as popular as an F150.
That was 7 months ago. In Houston vehicles are going for sticker +.
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