Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two stores that we have contacted are arrogant andindependent.
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:I certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >> >
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer
service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
Why would you never say "very good"?
What's not "very good" about their nitrile gloves, compared to others?
What's not "very good" about their Anti-Fatigue Foam Mats? (They haveAgain, OK but nothing to write home about.
many uses other than standing on. I use them to protect stuff, such as the >interior of my vehicles when I'm hauling stuff or when I need a small
piece of padding to absorb vibrations or prevent scratching.)
What's not "very good" about their zip ties, e-track accessories, moving >blankets, dollies, etc.?
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work glovesI certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken >returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer >service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
As has been said many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there.
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken >returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer >service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:38:28 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:I certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >> >for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer >> >service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
Why would you never say "very good"?Because nothing is "very good". OK, maybe.
What's not "very good" about their nitrile gloves, compared to others?Not everything in the world can be "very good". "OK" or "good",
maybe. There is nothing any better about them than any other. I'm
sure they aren't "surgical", not that they need to be,
What's not "very good" about their Anti-Fatigue Foam Mats? (They haveAgain, OK but nothing to write home about.
many uses other than standing on. I use them to protect stuff, such as the >interior of my vehicles when I'm hauling stuff or when I need a small
piece of padding to absorb vibrations or prevent scratching.)
What's not "very good" about their zip ties, e-track accessories, moving >blankets, dollies, etc.?The operative word here is "very".
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:44:37 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:38:28 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:Because nothing is "very good". OK, maybe.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:Why would you never say "very good"?
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:I certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >>>>> for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken >>>>> returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date. >>>>> They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said >>>>> many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >>>>>
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer >>>>> service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot >>>>> dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading >>>>> that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood. >>>
What's not "very good" about their nitrile gloves, compared to others?Not everything in the world can be "very good". "OK" or "good",
maybe. There is nothing any better about them than any other. I'm
sure they aren't "surgical", not that they need to be,
What's not "very good" about their Anti-Fatigue Foam Mats? (They haveAgain, OK but nothing to write home about.
many uses other than standing on. I use them to protect stuff, such as the >>> interior of my vehicles when I'm hauling stuff or when I need a small
piece of padding to absorb vibrations or prevent scratching.)
What's not "very good" about their zip ties, e-track accessories, moving >>> blankets, dollies, etc.?The operative word here is "very".
First you say 'Because nothing is "very good"'
Then you say 'Not everything in the world can be "very good".'
"Not everything" leaves room for something to be "very good" yet
you said that *nothing* is very good.
Please explain.
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there.
service based upon their profit margins.
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work
gloves for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
On 2/16/2022 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than
that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work
gloves for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
You must not have ever played Poker... ; )
On 2/16/2022 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
On 2/16/2022 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than
that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work
gloves for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
You must not have ever played Poker... ; )
What poker hand has 6 pair and or 12 cards? ;~)
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work glovesSooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:44:37 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:38:28 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:Because nothing is "very good". OK, maybe.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:Why would you never say "very good"?
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:I certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >> >> >for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken >> >> >returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date. >> >> >They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said >> >> >many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer >> >> >service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood. >> >
What's not "very good" about their nitrile gloves, compared to others?Not everything in the world can be "very good". "OK" or "good",
maybe. There is nothing any better about them than any other. I'm
sure they aren't "surgical", not that they need to be,
What's not "very good" about their Anti-Fatigue Foam Mats? (They haveAgain, OK but nothing to write home about.
many uses other than standing on. I use them to protect stuff, such as the >> >interior of my vehicles when I'm hauling stuff or when I need a small
piece of padding to absorb vibrations or prevent scratching.)
What's not "very good" about their zip ties, e-track accessories, movingThe operative word here is "very".
blankets, dollies, etc.?
First you say 'Because nothing is "very good"'
Then you say 'Not everything in the world can be "very good".'
"Not everything" leaves room for something to be "very good" yet
you said that *nothing* is very good.
Please explain.
On 2/16/2022 1:30 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:44:37 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:38:28 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:Because nothing is "very good". OK, maybe.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:Why would you never say "very good"?
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >>>>>> for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken >>>>>> returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date. >>>>>> They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said >>>>>> many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy >>>>>> there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer >>>>>> service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer >>>>>> service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it. >>>>> I certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I >>>>> used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot >>>>>> dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one >>>>>> in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading >>>>>> that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood. >>>>
What's not "very good" about their nitrile gloves, compared to others?Not everything in the world can be "very good". "OK" or "good",
maybe. There is nothing any better about them than any other. I'm
sure they aren't "surgical", not that they need to be,
What's not "very good" about their Anti-Fatigue Foam Mats? (They haveAgain, OK but nothing to write home about.
many uses other than standing on. I use them to protect stuff, such as the >>>> interior of my vehicles when I'm hauling stuff or when I need a small
piece of padding to absorb vibrations or prevent scratching.)
What's not "very good" about their zip ties, e-track accessories, moving >>>> blankets, dollies, etc.?The operative word here is "very".
First you say 'Because nothing is "very good"'
Then you say 'Not everything in the world can be "very good".'
"Not everything" leaves room for something to be "very good" yet
you said that *nothing* is very good.
Please explain.
As the person who first typed the word "very", I apologize for doing so. >Honestly, I didn't really mean it.
Here: Some of their stuff is truly good or at least quite acceptable. %-)
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
HF has also taken
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
That has nothing to do with the quality of the products that they sell.
It has almost always been the policy of some stores to take back
merchandise when it had issues, regardless of when it was bought.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there.
I have found better tarps through Amazon for less.
I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer
service based upon their profit margins.
I do not believe that the OP was looking for more customer service, so
much as a courteous customer service. And with that I again say, bottom
of the barrel products, did you really expect better than that.
They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
Well I can assure you that most of this merchandise has higher profit
margins that places like HD, or Lowes. Cheap Chinese merchandise is >shockingly inexpensive for the retailer. Your gloves likely cost HF 10
~20 cents. Another example, Rockler sells a blue anodized set of clamps
for holding a sacrificial fence to a TS fence. A Rockler retail owner
told me that those clamps retailed for about $15, 14 years ago. He was >paying less that 50 cents.
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
And again I say...
Harbor freight saves you money on items that you are likely to only use
a few times.
But having said that they do seem to be stepping up their game on some
of their lines of power tools.
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 3:01:43 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >>>
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
1 - Vehicle
2 - Shop
3 - Other vehicle
4 - Garage
5 - Another for the vehicle because you forgot about the pair under the seat. 6 - SWMBO's garden shed
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:01:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >>>
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
Centipede? 1-1/2 octopi?
HF has also takenAs you point out (below) the margin is so high that it's not worth
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
That has nothing to do with the quality of the products that they sell.
It has almost always been the policy of some stores to take back
merchandise when it had issues, regardless of when it was bought.
pissing off any customer. Give them *anything* they want.
I think that's a local management issue too. There is no need for
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there.
I have found better tarps through Amazon for less.
I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer
service based upon their profit margins.
I do not believe that the OP was looking for more customer service, so
much as a courteous customer service. And with that I again say, bottom
of the barrel products, did you really expect better than that.
staff to be rude. Again, it comes down to pissing off a very
profitable customer for such a small reason.
But your local Rockler doesn't pump out those fence clamps by the
They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
Well I can assure you that most of this merchandise has higher profit
margins that places like HD, or Lowes. Cheap Chinese merchandise is
shockingly inexpensive for the retailer. Your gloves likely cost HF 10
~20 cents. Another example, Rockler sells a blue anodized set of clamps
for holding a sacrificial fence to a TS fence. A Rockler retail owner
told me that those clamps retailed for about $15, 14 years ago. He was
paying less that 50 cents.
thousands either. It's still a nice margin but it's not surprising
either. Pretty sells, even though it does have a big "Rockler"
engraved into it. ;-)
We'll see. I can't count how many times the plastic on a tool (or
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
And again I say...
Harbor freight saves you money on items that you are likely to only use
a few times.
But having said that they do seem to be stepping up their game on some
of their lines of power tools.
whatever) turns to goo. There are a lot of things that can go wrong
with tools.
Batteries are another sore spot that doesn't show up immediately. I
got rid of all my Dewalt tools after their batteries kept dying after
just a couple of years of gentle usage. That was during the NiCd days
but it seemed like every time I picked up the tool the battery was
dead (not just discharged). No more Dewalt. Even though I have four
types of batteries/chargers, there is no reason to try Dewalt again.
On 2/16/2022 5:10 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:01:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >>>> for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >>>>
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
Centipede? 1-1/2 octopi?
HF has also takenAs you point out (below) the margin is so high that it's not worth
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
That has nothing to do with the quality of the products that they sell.
It has almost always been the policy of some stores to take back
merchandise when it had issues, regardless of when it was bought.
pissing off any customer. Give them *anything* they want.
I think that's a local management issue too. There is no need for
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said >>>> many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there.
I have found better tarps through Amazon for less.
I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer
service based upon their profit margins.
I do not believe that the OP was looking for more customer service, so
much as a courteous customer service. And with that I again say, bottom >>> of the barrel products, did you really expect better than that.
staff to be rude. Again, it comes down to pissing off a very
profitable customer for such a small reason.
But your local Rockler doesn't pump out those fence clamps by the
They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
Well I can assure you that most of this merchandise has higher profit
margins that places like HD, or Lowes. Cheap Chinese merchandise is
shockingly inexpensive for the retailer. Your gloves likely cost HF 10
~20 cents. Another example, Rockler sells a blue anodized set of clamps >>> for holding a sacrificial fence to a TS fence. A Rockler retail owner
told me that those clamps retailed for about $15, 14 years ago. He was
paying less that 50 cents.
thousands either. It's still a nice margin but it's not surprising
either. Pretty sells, even though it does have a big "Rockler"
engraved into it. ;-)
Not of that particular item but I doubt all that "Rockler Blue" is
actually manufactured anywhere but China. I often wonder how they get
away with some of their copy cat products. ie. the Dubby.
And Banggood? Copy cat of WoodPeckers tools. Not at Rockler but the >Banggood stuff is hard to differentiate from Woodpeckers.
We'll see. I can't count how many times the plastic on a tool (or
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot
dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading
that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood.
And again I say...
Harbor freight saves you money on items that you are likely to only use
a few times.
But having said that they do seem to be stepping up their game on some
of their lines of power tools.
whatever) turns to goo. There are a lot of things that can go wrong
with tools.
Hence using/buying when you need the tool. And maybe once or twice
after. I bought a pneumatic stapler 20+ years ago for a store room I
was building. Stapeling a lot of screen wire for under eve ventelation.
I have not used it since, that I recall. $15 for the stapler.
Batteries are another sore spot that doesn't show up immediately. I
got rid of all my Dewalt tools after their batteries kept dying after
just a couple of years of gentle usage. That was during the NiCd days
but it seemed like every time I picked up the tool the battery was
dead (not just discharged). No more Dewalt. Even though I have four
types of batteries/chargers, there is no reason to try Dewalt again.
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:50:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 5:10 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:01:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >>>>> for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >>>>>
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
Centipede? 1-1/2 octopi?
HF has also takenAs you point out (below) the margin is so high that it's not worth
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date. >>>>That has nothing to do with the quality of the products that they sell. >>>> It has almost always been the policy of some stores to take back
merchandise when it had issues, regardless of when it was bought.
pissing off any customer. Give them *anything* they want.
I think that's a local management issue too. There is no need for
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said >>>>> many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there.
I have found better tarps through Amazon for less.
I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer
service based upon their profit margins.
I do not believe that the OP was looking for more customer service, so >>>> much as a courteous customer service. And with that I again say, bottom >>>> of the barrel products, did you really expect better than that.
staff to be rude. Again, it comes down to pissing off a very
profitable customer for such a small reason.
But your local Rockler doesn't pump out those fence clamps by the
They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
Well I can assure you that most of this merchandise has higher profit
margins that places like HD, or Lowes. Cheap Chinese merchandise is
shockingly inexpensive for the retailer. Your gloves likely cost HF 10 >>>> ~20 cents. Another example, Rockler sells a blue anodized set of clamps >>>> for holding a sacrificial fence to a TS fence. A Rockler retail owner >>>> told me that those clamps retailed for about $15, 14 years ago. He was >>>> paying less that 50 cents.
thousands either. It's still a nice margin but it's not surprising
either. Pretty sells, even though it does have a big "Rockler"
engraved into it. ;-)
Not of that particular item but I doubt all that "Rockler Blue" is
actually manufactured anywhere but China. I often wonder how they get
away with some of their copy cat products. ie. the Dubby.
Their "Dubby" isn't anything like the real thing.
I always wondered how Kreg let them get away with the blue T-track
parts.
And Banggood? Copy cat of WoodPeckers tools. Not at Rockler but theI've seen the youtubes comparing them. Didn't see the point (of
Banggood stuff is hard to differentiate from Woodpeckers.
comparing them).
We'll see. I can't count how many times the plastic on a tool (orAnd again I say...
In December, I wanted to buy (and am still on the lookout for) a "hot >>>>> dog compresssor" from HF that was discontinued and the nearest one
in stock was at a store 70 miles away from me. I didn't like reading >>>>> that they would not ship it to a store closer to me, but I understood. >>>>
Harbor freight saves you money on items that you are likely to only use >>>> a few times.
But having said that they do seem to be stepping up their game on some >>>> of their lines of power tools.
whatever) turns to goo. There are a lot of things that can go wrong
with tools.
Hence using/buying when you need the tool. And maybe once or twice
after. I bought a pneumatic stapler 20+ years ago for a store room I
was building. Stapeling a lot of screen wire for under eve ventelation.
I have not used it since, that I recall. $15 for the stapler.
Batteries are another sore spot that doesn't show up immediately. I
got rid of all my Dewalt tools after their batteries kept dying after
just a couple of years of gentle usage. That was during the NiCd days
but it seemed like every time I picked up the tool the battery was
dead (not just discharged). No more Dewalt. Even though I have four
types of batteries/chargers, there is no reason to try Dewalt again.
On 2/16/2022 3:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 3:01:43 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves >>> for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that? >>>
1 - VehicleI keep a pair in the truck. That's it.
2 - Shop
3 - Other vehicle
4 - Garage
5 - Another for the vehicle because you forgot about the pair under the seat.
6 - SWMBO's garden shed
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:10:11 -0500, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work gloves
for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20. HF has also taken
returns from me even though it was technically passed the return date.
They also have "blue tarps" in every size imaginable. As has been said
many times before, you just have to be selective about what you buy
there. I don't think it's fair to expect them to provide extra customer
service based upon their profit margins. They make their money on
volume, not having extra personal around to provide extra customer
service. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it.
I certainly wouldn't say "very good". Cheap but never "very good". I
used to buy nitrile gloves there but post covid there are places no
more expensive. Expensive but no more so.
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a constant
decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the fact that if you
don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight simply because they don't
have the huge array of single use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to buy
a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that trash
pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had one of
those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I grabbed a
tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to take stuff out of
my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on
that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have
any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming.
She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only the
display model."Â She immediately started ringing up the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump it
goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days
instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for In Track members).
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two stores that we have contacted are arrogant andindependent.
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
On 2/16/2022 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
On 2/16/2022 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than
that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work
gloves for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
You must not have ever played Poker... ; )
What poker hand has 6 pair and or 12 cards? ;~)
Comb(4,2) = C(4,2) = 6 pair of fives! Read 'em and weep! lol
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. The
writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a constant
decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate and margin
principles learned in business classes that ignore the fact that if
you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn rate items
elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight simply because
they don't have the huge array of single use specialty tools they used
to have. At least now they have a website that usually tells me if
what I want is in stock locally or not. Not always, but most of the
time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to
buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that
trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had
one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I
grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the
tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the
counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to
take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said,
"Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have
any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming.
She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but
I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only the
display model."Â She immediately started ringing up the accessories
and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump
it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked
around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days
instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working
for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for
In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
to take them off for some reason.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it without building up too much sweat!
On 2/16/2022 3:54 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
On 2/16/2022 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than >>>>> that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work
gloves for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
You must not have ever played Poker... ; )
What poker hand has 6 pair and or 12 cards? ;~)Many years ago, I was playing Poker with friends, and my friend
announced he had "2 pair", <pause> "2 pair of fives". I was saddened to
learn of his "good fortune" at the time. But this morning it occurred to
me that he didn't really figure his hand correctly, he had <wait for
Comb(4,2) = C(4,2) = 6 pair of fives! Read 'em and weep! lol
On 2/16/2022 3:54 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
On 2/16/2022 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2022 8:10 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/15/2022 7:08 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than >>>>>> that?
Some of their stuff is very good. They'll sell me 6 pair of work
gloves for $8, while 1 pair of work gloves at Lowes is $20.
Sooo why would one need 6 pair of gloves if one pair is very good?
You must not have ever played Poker... ; )
What poker hand has 6 pair and or 12 cards? ;~)
Many years ago, I was playing Poker with friends, and my friend
announced he had "2 pair", <pause> "2 pair of fives".
I was saddened to
learn of his "good fortune" at the time. But this morning it occurred to
me that he didn't really figure his hand correctly, he had <wait for
Comb(4,2) = C(4,2) = 6 pair of fives! Read 'em and weep! lol
DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in >news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a-ba66-500c291cf764n@googlegroups.com:
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
to take them off for some reason.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it >without building up too much sweat!
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
to take them off for some reason.
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile >gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing
snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and
keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take >outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration >dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them >to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it
without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than >my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two stores that we have contacted are arrogant andindependent.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:29:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have >> to take them off for some reason.
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile >gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing
snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and >keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take >outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration
dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them
to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to >> be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it
without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than >my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)Snow blowers usually have wheels. You're not supposed to lift them!
;-)
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate
and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the
fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn
rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight
simply because they don't have the huge array of single use specialty
tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that
usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not
always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to
buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that
trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had
one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I
grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the
tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the
counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to
take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said,
"Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have
any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming.
She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but
I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only
the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up the
accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump
it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked
around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days
instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working
for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for
In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all
manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in the
back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through
an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was almost
as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now they
couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes.
Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal lathes
they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen
from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man
Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor
who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor Freight needed
to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate
and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the
fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn
rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight
simply because they don't have the huge array of single use
specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a website
that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not.
Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to
buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that
trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had
one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I
grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing
the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on
the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded >>>> to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said,
"Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump
it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked >>>> around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days
instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working
for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for >>>> In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all
manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through
an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was
almost as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now
they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes.
Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal
lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen
from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man
Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor
who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the
mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor
Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of
their selection wasn't the right answer either.
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn
rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor
Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single use
specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a
website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or
not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to >>>>> buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that >>>>> trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It
had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf,
so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of
handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other >>>>> stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she >>>>> proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped
her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20%
for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all
manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing
through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog
was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper.
Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old
Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor
who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the
mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor
Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90%
of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and you tell
me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys them and
its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and kids back in
the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I buy the new stove
the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I had been eyeballing
in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn to stock what I needed
I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a couple high margin items
from somebody else. Instead of having some stocking costs you lost a
huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long to
get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. I
tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper groceries
were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I bought this cool
new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's hardware store. I
might even mention how much the old lady is pleased about the new stove
she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to
town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto
for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to get
what they really needed somewhere else.
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:29:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:Snow blowers usually have wheels. You're not supposed to lift them!
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have >> >> to take them off for some reason.
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile >> >gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing
snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and
keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take
outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration
dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them
to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to >> >> be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it
without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than >> >my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
;-)
"Wheels" is kind of why I upgraded - differential steering actually - but
I'm not sure that I made my life any easier. What I gained in "ease of >steering" I lost with the extra weight.
Most of where I blow snow is in tight places that require a lot of steering >but some places are still too tight and I have to muscle the machine around. >The new machine is heavier and longer, so I find I'm still working at least >as hard as I was before. Although, I have to say that the bigger machine
does allow me to use the full width of the bucket without leaving a strip
of snow. By that I mean that if I used more than 2/3's of the bucket on
old machine, snow would come out of the top corner of the bucket and
land next to where I just cleared. With the new machine I can use the full >24" and it all comes out of the chute. I'm not sure if it's the larger auger, >larger impeller, larger engine or all three. So, theoretically, I'm making >1/3 less trips with the new machine.
They are both Ariens machines but the old one is a Ariens Sno-Tek,
which is a line that they came out with about 11 years ago to compete
with the (back then) $600 class of home center choices. It's been a
great machine - never had a single problem with it. 1 pull start every
time. Still looks good too. (It's for sale)
Ariens Deluxe 24" vs. Ariens Sno-Tek 24"
Check out the new wheels. ;-)
https://i.imgur.com/MPhj9lw.jpg
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not
take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two
stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate
and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the
fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn
rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight
simply because they don't have the huge array of single use specialty
tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that
usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not
always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to
buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that
trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had
one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I
grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the
tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the
counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to
take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said,
"Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have
any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming.
She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but
I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only
the display model." She immediately started ringing up the
accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump
it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked
around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days
instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working
for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for
In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all
manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in the
back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through
an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was almost
as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now they
couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes.
Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal lathes
they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen
from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man
Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor
who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the mountain
grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor Freight needed
to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of their selection
wasn't the right answer either.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:38:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:29:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:Snow blowers usually have wheels. You're not supposed to lift them!
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in >> >> > the van. ;-)
to take them off for some reason.
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile >> >gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing
snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and >> >keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take >> >outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration
dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them
to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it >> >> without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than
my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
;-)
"Wheels" is kind of why I upgraded - differential steering actually - but >I'm not sure that I made my life any easier. What I gained in "ease of >steering" I lost with the extra weight.
Most of where I blow snow is in tight places that require a lot of steering >but some places are still too tight and I have to muscle the machine around. >The new machine is heavier and longer, so I find I'm still working at least >as hard as I was before. Although, I have to say that the bigger machine >does allow me to use the full width of the bucket without leaving a strip >of snow. By that I mean that if I used more than 2/3's of the bucket onMy biggest problem was ice, mostly from the snow plow. It also didn't
old machine, snow would come out of the top corner of the bucket and
land next to where I just cleared. With the new machine I can use the full >24" and it all comes out of the chute. I'm not sure if it's the larger auger,
larger impeller, larger engine or all three. So, theoretically, I'm making >1/3 less trips with the new machine.
like snow above the height of the bucket, which wasn't rare. In any
serious snow storm, I'd go out a couple of times during the night to
clear the driveway so it wouldn't clog thing to do it in one pass.
The neighbors didn't mind the noise. They were out there too.
There were years that there had been enough snow that it was piled so
high the blower couldn't lift more above the mounds I'd already piled
up. Early in the season I started blowing it off the grass next to
the driveway to get it further back so I had somewhere to put it
later.
They are both Ariens machines but the old one is a Ariens Sno-Tek,Mine was pull-start but I was younger then, too. There is a reason we
which is a line that they came out with about 11 years ago to compete
with the (back then) $600 class of home center choices. It's been a
great machine - never had a single problem with it. 1 pull start every >time. Still looks good too. (It's for sale)
moved where it don't snow. I couldn't do it now. For certain, I
couldn't shovel it by hand. I have enough metal in me that I couldn't
stand the cold either. Nope. Not going back (between October and
May).
Ariens Deluxe 24" vs. Ariens Sno-Tek 24"
Check out the new wheels. ;-)
https://i.imgur.com/MPhj9lw.jpgThe pic makes it look like there should be a doll house behind them.
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are made to shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn
rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor
Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single
use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a
website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally
or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in
to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories
It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the
shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my
other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside.
Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up >>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most
all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long
to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking.
I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's
hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is pleased
about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to
town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto
for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:07:43 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:38:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:29:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03My biggest problem was ice, mostly from the snow plow. It also didn't
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote: >> >> >> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote inSnow blowers usually have wheels. You're not supposed to lift them!
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in >> >> >> > the van. ;-)
to take them off for some reason.
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile
gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing
snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and >> >> >keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take >> >> >outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration
dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them
to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it >> >> >> without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than
my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
;-)
"Wheels" is kind of why I upgraded - differential steering actually - but >> >I'm not sure that I made my life any easier. What I gained in "ease of
steering" I lost with the extra weight.
Most of where I blow snow is in tight places that require a lot of steering >> >but some places are still too tight and I have to muscle the machine around.
The new machine is heavier and longer, so I find I'm still working at least >> >as hard as I was before. Although, I have to say that the bigger machine
does allow me to use the full width of the bucket without leaving a strip >> >of snow. By that I mean that if I used more than 2/3's of the bucket on
old machine, snow would come out of the top corner of the bucket and
land next to where I just cleared. With the new machine I can use the full >> >24" and it all comes out of the chute. I'm not sure if it's the larger auger,
larger impeller, larger engine or all three. So, theoretically, I'm making >> >1/3 less trips with the new machine.
like snow above the height of the bucket, which wasn't rare. In any
serious snow storm, I'd go out a couple of times during the night to
clear the driveway so it wouldn't clog thing to do it in one pass.
Drift cutters can help knock down snow that is above the bucket. Ever
wonder what those holes on the side of the bucket are for? ;-)
When the plow leaves a huge pile at the EOD, something that's above
the bucket, I use a shovel to slice the street side face off, a little at a >time and then blow that away. After a few passes, it's down low enough
for the bucket to handle. Of course, I've got a whole inch more bucket
height now, so that shouldn't be as much of a problem. ;-)
;-)The neighbors didn't mind the noise. They were out there too.
I'm the only one out there early in the morning and later at night.
The neighbors don't mind because I take care of their driveways
too.
There were years that there had been enough snow that it was piled so
high the blower couldn't lift more above the mounds I'd already piled
up. Early in the season I started blowing it off the grass next to
the driveway to get it further back so I had somewhere to put it
later.
I have always cleared about 2 feet onto the lawn. I like the extra room
to open car doors, wheel out the garbage can, get the snow blower around, >etc.
I also blow a path around the house so I can get to the shed, back door,
etc. The mail carriers love me because I blow a path from my neighbor's >driveway across the front of my house to my stoop. They don't have to walk >out to the street and back in to get from house to house.
Mine was pull-start but I was younger then, too. There is a reason we
They are both Ariens machines but the old one is a Ariens Sno-Tek,
which is a line that they came out with about 11 years ago to compete
with the (back then) $600 class of home center choices. It's been a
great machine - never had a single problem with it. 1 pull start every
time. Still looks good too. (It's for sale)
moved where it don't snow. I couldn't do it now. For certain, I
couldn't shovel it by hand. I have enough metal in me that I couldn't
stand the cold either. Nope. Not going back (between October and
May).
The pic makes it look like there should be a doll house behind them.
Ariens Deluxe 24" vs. Ariens Sno-Tek 24"
Check out the new wheels. ;-)
https://i.imgur.com/MPhj9lw.jpg
The only thing I *really* don't like about the new machine is the location
of the control for the chute direction. It's in front of the console as opposed
to behind it like on the Sno-Tek. I'm short and it's hard for me to drive the >machine and reach over (and down) then spin the handle. As I mentioned,
I'm often in tight spaces like between 2 cars, along the front of a garage, >etc. so there's a lot chute maneuvering. The Sno-Tek handle was right where
I could use it while standing upright, driving and turning.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:13:34 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate >>>>> and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the
fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn
rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight
simply because they don't have the huge array of single use specialty >>>>> tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that
usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not
always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to >>>>> buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that >>>>> trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had >>>>> one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I >>>>> grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the >>>>> tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the >>>>> counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to >>>>> take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said,
"Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have >>>>> any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming. >>>>> She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but
I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only
the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up the
accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump >>>>> it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked >>>>> around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days >>>>> instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working >>>>> for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for >>>>> In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all
manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in the
back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through
an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was almost >>> as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now they
couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes.
Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal lathes
they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen
from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man
Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor
who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the mountain
grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor Freight needed >>> to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of their selection
wasn't the right answer either.
If you don't stock enough variety to get people in the door, the cost
of floor space is irrelevant.
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn
rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor
Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single
use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a
website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally
or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in
to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories
It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the
shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my
other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside.
Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up >>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most
all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are made
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst
customer service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. >>>>>>>> They will not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up.
The staff of two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and >>>>>>>> independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that
ignore the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they >>>>>>> buy the turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at
Harbor Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of
single use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they >>>>>>> have a website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock
locally or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the
shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a
point of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any >>>>>>> of my other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it
aside. Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it >>>>>>> up. I stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website
before coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we
don't have any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, >>>>>>> and said, "Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started >>>>>>> ringing up the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?"Â She just looked at me like I was an idiot. >>>>>>> I walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most
all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length
beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who
buys them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife
and kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in
town I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of
stopping next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already
in town I buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that
new rifle I had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were
to stubborn to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate
items and a couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of
having some stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long
to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking.
I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's
hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is
pleased about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what
we need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go
to town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly
Auto for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for
you. Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks
into your store than the one walking down the street, and its an
order of magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to
leave to get what they really needed somewhere else.
to shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and
lack of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting
your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send
it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance
and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get
a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up his....
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up his....
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 16:42:53 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:07:43 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:38:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:My biggest problem was ice, mostly from the snow plow. It also didn't
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:29:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote: >> >> >> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote inSnow blowers usually have wheels. You're not supposed to lift them!
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
to take them off for some reason.
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile
gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing >> >> >snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and
keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take
outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration
dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them
to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it
without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than
my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
;-)
"Wheels" is kind of why I upgraded - differential steering actually - but >> >I'm not sure that I made my life any easier. What I gained in "ease of
steering" I lost with the extra weight.
Most of where I blow snow is in tight places that require a lot of steering
but some places are still too tight and I have to muscle the machine around.
The new machine is heavier and longer, so I find I'm still working at least
as hard as I was before. Although, I have to say that the bigger machine >> >does allow me to use the full width of the bucket without leaving a strip >> >of snow. By that I mean that if I used more than 2/3's of the bucket on >> >old machine, snow would come out of the top corner of the bucket and
land next to where I just cleared. With the new machine I can use the full
24" and it all comes out of the chute. I'm not sure if it's the larger auger,
larger impeller, larger engine or all three. So, theoretically, I'm making
1/3 less trips with the new machine.
like snow above the height of the bucket, which wasn't rare. In any
serious snow storm, I'd go out a couple of times during the night to
clear the driveway so it wouldn't clog thing to do it in one pass.
Drift cutters can help knock down snow that is above the bucket. Ever >wonder what those holes on the side of the bucket are for? ;-)They only work if it's a drift. These "drifts" were the width and
lengths of the driveway and were bracketed by 5' of packed snow, some
years. A 36" snowfall gets to be a drag.
When the plow leaves a huge pile at the EOD, something that's aboveWith the salt, the berm turns to ice and will laugh at any snow
the bucket, I use a shovel to slice the street side face off, a little at a >time and then blow that away. After a few passes, it's down low enough
for the bucket to handle. Of course, I've got a whole inch more bucket >height now, so that shouldn't be as much of a problem. ;-)
blower. The whole thing has to be dug out with something stronger
than a snow shovel.
The neighbors didn't mind the noise. They were out there too.
I'm the only one out there early in the morning and later at night.;-)
The neighbors don't mind because I take care of their driveways
too.
There were years that there had been enough snow that it was piled so
high the blower couldn't lift more above the mounds I'd already piled
up. Early in the season I started blowing it off the grass next to
the driveway to get it further back so I had somewhere to put it
later.
I have always cleared about 2 feet onto the lawn. I like the extra room
to open car doors, wheel out the garbage can, get the snow blower around, >etc.
I also blow a path around the house so I can get to the shed, back door, >etc. The mail carriers love me because I blow a path from my neighbor's >driveway across the front of my house to my stoop. They don't have to walk >out to the street and back in to get from house to house.
You get door service? I haven't seen that since I was a kid. We've
always had a box by the street. They just drive by. If there was any
snow in front of the box, the kept driving.
Mine was pull-start but I was younger then, too. There is a reason we
They are both Ariens machines but the old one is a Ariens Sno-Tek,
which is a line that they came out with about 11 years ago to compete
with the (back then) $600 class of home center choices. It's been a
great machine - never had a single problem with it. 1 pull start every
time. Still looks good too. (It's for sale)
moved where it don't snow. I couldn't do it now. For certain, I
couldn't shovel it by hand. I have enough metal in me that I couldn't
stand the cold either. Nope. Not going back (between October and
May).
The pic makes it look like there should be a doll house behind them.
Ariens Deluxe 24" vs. Ariens Sno-Tek 24"
Check out the new wheels. ;-)
https://i.imgur.com/MPhj9lw.jpg
The only thing I *really* don't like about the new machine is the location >of the control for the chute direction. It's in front of the console as opposedI see that. No, I wouldn't like that either. Mine was behind the
to behind it like on the Sno-Tek. I'm short and it's hard for me to drive the
machine and reach over (and down) then spin the handle. As I mentioned,
I'm often in tight spaces like between 2 cars, along the front of a garage, >etc. so there's a lot chute maneuvering. The Sno-Tek handle was right where >I could use it while standing upright, driving and turning.
bars. Both of those look like the control goes to the top of the
auger chute? The crank went to the bottom of the chute and drove a
worm gear riding on a spur gear on the chute. It tended to get jammed
with ice. It all worked OK in dry snow but it was useless in slop. I
had to do sloppy snow by hand. Wet snow is heavy stuff, too.
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:28:19 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 16:42:53 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:07:43 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:38:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03They only work if it's a drift. These "drifts" were the width and
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:My biggest problem was ice, mostly from the snow plow. It also didn't
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:29:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:02:19 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:Snow blowers usually have wheels. You're not supposed to lift them!
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
news:a67c4f0c-fa20-435a...@googlegroups.com:
And another pair to change in to when the first ones get wet and you have
This time of year I need a pair just to get to the pair that are in
the van. ;-)
to take them off for some reason.
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm nitrile
gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing >> >> >> >snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands clean, and
keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and have to take
outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration
dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them inside in, blow into them
to pop the fingers out and they're good to go.
I don't get why people like 28F degree weather. It's just too darn hot to
be useful. Get it back down around 18F and you can actually work in it
without building up too much sweat!
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier than
my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
;-)
"Wheels" is kind of why I upgraded - differential steering actually - but
I'm not sure that I made my life any easier. What I gained in "ease of >> >> >steering" I lost with the extra weight.
Most of where I blow snow is in tight places that require a lot of steering
but some places are still too tight and I have to muscle the machine around.
The new machine is heavier and longer, so I find I'm still working at least
as hard as I was before. Although, I have to say that the bigger machine >> >> >does allow me to use the full width of the bucket without leaving a strip
of snow. By that I mean that if I used more than 2/3's of the bucket on >> >> >old machine, snow would come out of the top corner of the bucket and
land next to where I just cleared. With the new machine I can use the full
24" and it all comes out of the chute. I'm not sure if it's the larger auger,
larger impeller, larger engine or all three. So, theoretically, I'm making
1/3 less trips with the new machine.
like snow above the height of the bucket, which wasn't rare. In any
serious snow storm, I'd go out a couple of times during the night to
clear the driveway so it wouldn't clog thing to do it in one pass.
Drift cutters can help knock down snow that is above the bucket. Ever
wonder what those holes on the side of the bucket are for? ;-)
lengths of the driveway and were bracketed by 5' of packed snow, some
years. A 36" snowfall gets to be a drag.
When the plow leaves a huge pile at the EOD, something that's aboveWith the salt, the berm turns to ice and will laugh at any snow
the bucket, I use a shovel to slice the street side face off, a little at a >> >time and then blow that away. After a few passes, it's down low enough
for the bucket to handle. Of course, I've got a whole inch more bucket
height now, so that shouldn't be as much of a problem. ;-)
blower. The whole thing has to be dug out with something stronger
than a snow shovel.
We get salt, we get berms, we get ice. Just dealt with berms that were higher >than the bucket by a least 6" inches. Cleared them with a shovel shave and >blow. 3 EODs and some street work.
There's a hydrant under there someplace. This was after a thaw and refreeze >and I'm sure you know what the does to a snow plow berm.
https://i.imgur.com/TYh1KkP.jpg
Whoomp! There it is!
https://i.imgur.com/erzljCh.jpg
;-)
The neighbors didn't mind the noise. They were out there too.
I'm the only one out there early in the morning and later at night.
The neighbors don't mind because I take care of their driveways
too.
You get door service? I haven't seen that since I was a kid. We've
There were years that there had been enough snow that it was piled so
high the blower couldn't lift more above the mounds I'd already piled
up. Early in the season I started blowing it off the grass next to
the driveway to get it further back so I had somewhere to put it
later.
I have always cleared about 2 feet onto the lawn. I like the extra room
to open car doors, wheel out the garbage can, get the snow blower around, >> >etc.
I also blow a path around the house so I can get to the shed, back door,
etc. The mail carriers love me because I blow a path from my neighbor's
driveway across the front of my house to my stoop. They don't have to walk >> >out to the street and back in to get from house to house.
always had a box by the street. They just drive by. If there was any
snow in front of the box, the kept driving.
Door service for mail, newspaper, packages, etc. Up until the previous
guy retired, the paper was "doored" in inclement weather.
("Doored" is what we called it when I delivered papers in NYC. You
put the paper between the storm door and the entry door to keep it
dry. Takes longer but the tips made it worth it.)
We've basically had 2 mail carriers since we moved here 30+ years ago.
The first one watched our kids grow up and when we see him around town
he always wants an update. (He ushers at some of the local theaters and
AAA ballpark, so we run into him a couple of times a year.)
The current one just about always stops to chat if I'm outside. She's really >nice.
I'm going to guess that you have no clue who delivers your mail or
at least don't know anything about them or their family.
I see that. No, I wouldn't like that either. Mine was behind the
Mine was pull-start but I was younger then, too. There is a reason we
They are both Ariens machines but the old one is a Ariens Sno-Tek,
which is a line that they came out with about 11 years ago to compete
with the (back then) $600 class of home center choices. It's been a
great machine - never had a single problem with it. 1 pull start every >> >> >time. Still looks good too. (It's for sale)
moved where it don't snow. I couldn't do it now. For certain, I
couldn't shovel it by hand. I have enough metal in me that I couldn't
stand the cold either. Nope. Not going back (between October and
May).
The pic makes it look like there should be a doll house behind them.
Ariens Deluxe 24" vs. Ariens Sno-Tek 24"
Check out the new wheels. ;-)
https://i.imgur.com/MPhj9lw.jpg
The only thing I *really* don't like about the new machine is the location >> >of the control for the chute direction. It's in front of the console as opposed
to behind it like on the Sno-Tek. I'm short and it's hard for me to drive the
machine and reach over (and down) then spin the handle. As I mentioned,
I'm often in tight spaces like between 2 cars, along the front of a garage, >> >etc. so there's a lot chute maneuvering. The Sno-Tek handle was right where >> >I could use it while standing upright, driving and turning.
bars. Both of those look like the control goes to the top of the
auger chute? The crank went to the bottom of the chute and drove a
worm gear riding on a spur gear on the chute. It tended to get jammed
with ice. It all worked OK in dry snow but it was useless in slop. I
had to do sloppy snow by hand. Wet snow is heavy stuff, too.
Yes, they both control the chute from the top. That part works fine.
There are some Ariens models that have "Quick Turn" levered system
instead of the "Ice Drill" style like mine. The lever is mounted on the >console. I'm going to see if mine can be modified but I doubt it.
If you look at the Sno-Tek you'll see that the deflector has 2 metal "U" >brackets attached to it. The small one is the original, the big one is
my mod. The first year Sno-Tek didn't come with a remote lever for
the deflector and I couldn't reach the "handle" from behind the console,
so I extended it.
Now I have remote deflector control but I hate the chute control. Can't >friggin' win.
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn
rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor
Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single
use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the
shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside.
Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most
all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain
in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores
all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in >business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on
the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it.
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt
that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a
source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of
those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer
and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table
saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT
with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this.
You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
What is stupid in this short story you are writing. Every single store
in the world does not tell their customers what they need or want is
stupid. But every single store has and has always not had something
that a customer wanted and that is because it does not fit in the
business plan. I have only heard a store employee say, sorry/or we do
not stock that. That tells you the situation. You are not getting it
there. And probably not the quart of milk that your wife told you to go
get. He does not go on to say, what they/you need is not important,
like you said, that would be stupid. Why would anyone think would
happen? That would be directly. Iindirectly he is probably thinking
that he needs to get the milk at the next store.
When you have competition and yes every like business is competition,
whether you are the best or the worst. You have to first have a sound >business model and stick to it. Pleasing the customer is an important
step but absolutely not the only important step necessary to have a >sustainable business.
YOU can please some of the people some of the time,... you know the rest.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
DOH! But one of those other customers that came from one of those other >stores wanks in to your business and buys what you have.
You CANNOT be everything to every customer.
On 2/19/2022 6:10 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:13:34 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate >>>>>> and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the
fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn >>>>>> rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight
simply because they don't have the huge array of single use specialty >>>>>> tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that
usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not
always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to >>>>>> buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that >>>>>> trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had >>>>>> one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I >>>>>> grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the >>>>>> tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the >>>>>> counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to >>>>>> take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said,
"Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have >>>>>> any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming. >>>>>> She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but >>>>>> I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only >>>>>> the display model." She immediately started ringing up the
accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump >>>>>> it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked >>>>>> around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days >>>>>> instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working >>>>>> for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for >>>>>> In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all >>>>> manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in the >>>> back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through >>>> an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was almost >>>> as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now they
couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes. >>>> Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal lathes >>>> they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen >>>> from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man
Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor
who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the mountain >>>> grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor Freight needed >>>> to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of their selection >>>> wasn't the right answer either.
If you don't stock enough variety to get people in the door, the cost
of floor space is irrelevant.
So if you buy everything, you go broke and close the doors.
Certainly variety is a draw but you have to be able to control your
money. I am not sure if I have ever heard of a company that started out
offering everything. No one really knows what is going to sell with a
start up business. So you start with inventory that will sustain the >business. Add variety as business warrants.
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there isIt is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up
his....
for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be
smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
shear pins.
When I had to use one of the two that came with my snowblower I bought
two more at Lowes. Call John Deere.
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm
nitrile gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork,
blowing snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands
clean, and keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and
have to take outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the
perspiration dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn them
inside in, blow into them to pop the fingers out and they're good to
go.
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier
than my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
Might as well go out and work. My house won't maintain temperature
below about 25F. Set-backs are a silly idea at anything below 40-50F.
I walk three hours every morning (when it's not raining). I get cold
at anything between 35 and 50ish. Below 35, I don't sweat much and it doesn't matter above 50. This time of year the temperature can easily
go up 20F during that time so it's hard to know whether to wear
gloves.
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are made to shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn
rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor
Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single
use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the
shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside.
Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most
all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long
to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking.
I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's
hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is pleased
about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to
town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto
for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send
it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance
and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get
a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up his....
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in news:075665ed-29e1-4135...@googlegroups.com:
Actually I solved that problem with another HF product: Their 5mm
nitrile gloves. I wear them under gloves when I'm doing wet yardwork, blowing snow, etc. Keeps the wet away from the skin, keeps the hands
clean, and keeps the wind off if I need to do something "delicate" and
have to take outer gloves off.
When I take off the nitrile pair, I leave them inside out so the perspiration dries. When I need to put them on again, I turn themDon't your hands sweat? I never can use the same pair of Nitrile gloves twice...even though I've tried.
inside in, blow into them to pop the fingers out and they're good to
go.
I just bought a new snow blower. At 245 lbs, it's about 40 lbs heavier
than my old one. I may need to shed a layer. ;-)
Ooh, congrats on the new toy--uh tool. I've got an old one that my
Grandpa bought used and it's done a great job these last two winter
storms. I just didn't know enough about the Tecumseh HS50 engine to get
it going again, so I replaced it with a very nice Predator from Harbor Freight.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:00:02 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:10 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:13:34 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate >>>>>>> and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the >>>>>>> fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn >>>>>>> rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight >>>>>>> simply because they don't have the huge array of single use specialty >>>>>>> tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that >>>>>>> usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not >>>>>>> always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to >>>>>>> buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that >>>>>>> trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had >>>>>>> one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I >>>>>>> grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the >>>>>>> tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the >>>>>>> counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to >>>>>>> take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said, >>>>>>> "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have >>>>>>> any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming. >>>>>>> She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but >>>>>>> I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only >>>>>>> the display model." She immediately started ringing up the
accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump >>>>>>> it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked >>>>>>> around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days >>>>>>> instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working >>>>>>> for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for >>>>>>> In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all >>>>>> manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in the >>>>> back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through >>>>> an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was almost >>>>> as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now they
couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes. >>>>> Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal lathes >>>>> they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen >>>>> from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man
Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business instructor >>>>> who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the mountain >>>>> grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor Freight needed >>>>> to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of their selection >>>>> wasn't the right answer either.
If you don't stock enough variety to get people in the door, the cost
of floor space is irrelevant.
So if you buy everything, you go broke and close the doors.
Evidently there is a happy medium. I don't know if HF is there,
mainly because there isn't much there I want.
Certainly variety is a draw but you have to be able to control your
money. I am not sure if I have ever heard of a company that started out
offering everything. No one really knows what is going to sell with a
start up business. So you start with inventory that will sustain the
business. Add variety as business warrants.
HF isn't a new business. It seems they're always in trouble.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain
in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores
all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in
business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on
the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it.
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt
that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a
source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of
those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer
and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table
saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT
with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this.
You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in
stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one
anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50)
of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that
drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so
long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They
had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the
floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their
Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
What is stupid in this short story you are writing. Every single store
in the world does not tell their customers what they need or want is
stupid. But every single store has and has always not had something
that a customer wanted and that is because it does not fit in the
business plan. I have only heard a store employee say, sorry/or we do
not stock that. That tells you the situation. You are not getting it
there. And probably not the quart of milk that your wife told you to go
get. He does not go on to say, what they/you need is not important,
like you said, that would be stupid. Why would anyone think would
happen? That would be directly. Iindirectly he is probably thinking
that he needs to get the milk at the next store.
When you have competition and yes every like business is competition,
whether you are the best or the worst. You have to first have a sound
business model and stick to it. Pleasing the customer is an important
step but absolutely not the only important step necessary to have a
sustainable business.
YOU can please some of the people some of the time,... you know the rest.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you. >>>> Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your >>>> store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
DOH! But one of those other customers that came from one of those other
stores wanks in to your business and buys what you have.
You CANNOT be everything to every customer.
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then thereIt is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item
is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't
even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for
town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head
up his....
for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be
smart to foreclose.  Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
shear pins.
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are made to >>> shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor
Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its
working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down
from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long
to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking.
I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's
hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is pleased >>>> about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what we >>>> need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to
town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto
for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not
important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you. >>>> Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your >>>> store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send
it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance
and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get
a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a
lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up
his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt that you needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of bolt. He just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is that for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that a guest might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a terrible host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common". It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to make only *you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such a terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business a long time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof that he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish uponIf you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then thereIt is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't
even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for
town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head
up his....
shear pins.
them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be
used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not
just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times.
Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who
also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile
will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and
grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next
door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people
expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up
on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in
petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was
to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you
think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They
were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't
think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item >>> for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there
is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't
even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head
up his....
smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
shear pins.
approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon
them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their
family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making
yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it
working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be
used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't
have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not
just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times.
Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who
also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile
will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and
grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next
door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his
example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people
expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up
on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in
petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was
to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your
business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you
think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They
were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't
think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that
supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you
are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each
individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? Sounds
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
On 2/20/2022 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 8:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>> On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length >>>>>>> beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long >>>>> to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. >>>>> I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's >>>>> hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is pleased >>>>> about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what we >>>>> need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to >>>>> town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto >>>>> for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not >>>>> important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you. >>>>> Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your >>>>> store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to >>>>> get what they really needed somewhere else.
made to
shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack >>>> of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send >>> it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance >>> and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL NEED or >>> his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get >>> a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is >>> no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even >>> have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me >>> like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a
lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up >>> his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt
that you
needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of
bolt. He
just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is
that
for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that a
guest
might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a
terrible
host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common".
It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to
make only
*you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such a
terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business a
long
time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof that
he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
I understand. It doesn't mean while I'm in town getting what I "need" I won't buy all the other things I need too. Things you/he stock. Is my attitude crummy? Maybe, but Ed expressed his here. Mine as expressed
here is only a reaction to his.
I'm probably spinning my wheels here, but I'll give it one last try
before giving up on you.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competitive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot
doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper (all in one place sometimes). Who
is the biggest retailer in the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have
the broadest range of products of any retailer in the world as well. Is
Home depot going out of business. Not any time soon, because we still
go there if they do have what we need and we have to have it today.
They still have a broader range of product than any other local retailer
in their range of products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They
just don't have the range in each department that they did when they
opened the store. Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much
different from Harbor Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they
have it in stock today I just don't go there, and if I don't need it
today I can almost always have it delivered for the same or less. As a
result they don't sell me the stuff they don't have, and because there
is a lot they no longer have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they
do have either because I just don't check.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
On 2/20/2022 12:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item >>> for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>> smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there >>>> is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't >>>> even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will >>>> treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head >>>> up his....
shear pins.
approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon
them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their
family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making
yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it
working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be
used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't >> have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not
just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times.
Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who
also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile
will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and
grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next
door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his
example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people
expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up
on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in
petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was
to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your
business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you
think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They
were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't
think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that
supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? SoundsSounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
On 2/20/2022 12:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there >>>>> is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't >>>>> even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will >>>>> treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head >>>>> up his....
item
for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>>> smart to foreclose.  Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2 >>>> shear pins.
approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon
them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their
family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making
yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it
working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be
used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't >>> have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not
just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times.
Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who
also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile
will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and
grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next
door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his
example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people
expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up
on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in
petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was
to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your
business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you
think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They
were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't
think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that
supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you
are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it
made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each
individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? Sounds
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
On 2/20/2022 8:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length >>>>>>> beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long >>>>> to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. >>>>> I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's
hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is pleased >>>>> about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have what we >>>>> need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to >>>>> town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto >>>>> for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not >>>>> important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for you. >>>>> Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into your >>>>> store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to
get what they really needed somewhere else.
made to
shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack >>>> of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send
it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance
and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL NEED or >>> his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get
a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me >>> like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a
lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up >>> his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt
that you
needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of
bolt. He
just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is
that
for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that a
guest
might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a
terrible
host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common".
It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to
make only
*you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such a
terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business a
long
time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof that
he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
I understand. It doesn't mean while I'm in town getting what I "need" I won't buy all the other things I need too. Things you/he stock. Is my attitude crummy? Maybe, but Ed expressed his here. Mine as expressed
here is only a reaction to his.
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 3:15:15 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 12:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item >>>>> for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>>>> smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there >>>>>> is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't >>>>>> even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will >>>>>> treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be >>>>>> available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head >>>>>> up his....
shear pins.
approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon
them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their >>>> family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making >>>> yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it >>>> working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be >>>> used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't >>>> have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not
just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times. >>>> Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who
also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile >>>> will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and >>>> grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next >>>> door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his >>>> example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people
expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up >>>> on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in
petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was
to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your >>>> business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you
think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They
were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't
think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that
supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you >>> are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it >>> made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each
individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? Sounds
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
Then your story about the bolts didn't mean anything. If they weren't buying the bolts, they were coming for the other stuff he stocked. Are you saying that
if your Dad didn't have a huge selection of bolts, the customers would have gone away?
I'm just trying to keep this straight.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 22:48:16 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used item >>for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is
no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even
have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will treat me >>> like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head up >>> his....
shear pins.
When I had to use one of the two that came with my snowblower I bought
two more at Lowes. Call John Deere.
Did Ed sell him the combine? If not then why does he expect Ed to
stock parts for it?
On 2/19/2022 10:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:00:02 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:10 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:13:34 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not >>>>>>>>> take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two >>>>>>>>> stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn rate >>>>>>>> and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore the >>>>>>>> fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the turn >>>>>>>> rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor Freight >>>>>>>> simply because they don't have the huge array of single use specialty >>>>>>>> tools they used to have. At least now they have a website that >>>>>>>> usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally or not. Not >>>>>>>> always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in to >>>>>>>> buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with that >>>>>>>> trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories It had >>>>>>>> one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the shelf, so I >>>>>>>> grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point of handing the >>>>>>>> tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my other stuff on the >>>>>>>> counter. She took the tag and set it aside. Then she proceeded to >>>>>>>> take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I stopped her and said, >>>>>>>> "Lets get somebody on that pump first."
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't have >>>>>>>> any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before coming. >>>>>>>> She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have any, but >>>>>>>> I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, "Yeah only >>>>>>>> the display model." She immediately started ringing up the
accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the pump >>>>>>>> it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I walked >>>>>>>> around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple days >>>>>>>> instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its working >>>>>>>> for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% for >>>>>>>> In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most all >>>>>>> manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards.
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in the >>>>>> back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the Harbor
Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as thumbing through >>>>>> an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor Freight Catalog was almost >>>>>> as thick, and it was printed on almost bible thin paper. Now they >>>>>> couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal lathes. >>>>>> Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 metal lathes >>>>>> they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't happen >>>>>> from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when Old Man >>>>>> Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business instructor >>>>>> who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down from the mountain >>>>>> grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe Harbor Freight needed >>>>>> to clean up a little bit, but removing more than 90% of their selection >>>>>> wasn't the right answer either.
If you don't stock enough variety to get people in the door, the cost
of floor space is irrelevant.
So if you buy everything, you go broke and close the doors.
Evidently there is a happy medium. I don't know if HF is there,
mainly because there isn't much there I want.
Evidently and eventually. Precisely.
I have not seen Harbor Freight financials so I could not say with
certainty if they are in trouble or not. But any business remaining in >business during the past 2 years is doing something right. Is HF public
or private?
Certainly variety is a draw but you have to be able to control your
money. I am not sure if I have ever heard of a company that started out >>> offering everything. No one really knows what is going to sell with a >>> start up business. So you start with inventory that will sustain the
business. Add variety as business warrants.
HF isn't a new business. It seems they're always in trouble.
I could not say.
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the
Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor
Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal
lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds. >>>>>>>
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't
happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field
bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain >>> in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores >>> all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in
business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on
the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it.
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt
that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a
source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of
those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer
and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table
saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT
with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this. >>> You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources. >>> This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in
stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one
anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50)
of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that
drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so
long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They
had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the
floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their
Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has
happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once.
You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties
you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally >unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters.
We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed
to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a
single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two
weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my
inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston
also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat
their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and >bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular
happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw
no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what
they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had >plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back
orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
On 2/20/2022 1:15 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 12:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there >>>>>> is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't >>>>>> even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will >>>>>> treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be >>>>>> available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head >>>>>> up his....
item
for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>>>> smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2 >>>>> shear pins.
approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon
them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their >>>> family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making >>>> yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it >>>> working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be >>>> used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't >>>> have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not
just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times. >>>> Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who
also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile >>>> will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and >>>> grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next >>>> door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his >>>> example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people
expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up >>>> on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in
petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was
to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your >>>> business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you
think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They
were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't
think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that
supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you >>> are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it >>> made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each
individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? Sounds
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for >personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competetive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but
customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot
doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper. Who is the biggest retailer in
the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have the broadest range of
products of any retailer in the world as well. Is Home depot going out
of business. Not any time soon, because we still go there if they do
have what we need and we have to have it today. They still have a
broader range of product than any other local retailer in their range of >products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They just don't have
the range in each department that they did when they opened the store. >Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much different from Harbor >Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they have it in stock today I
just don't go there, and if I don't need it today I can almost always
have it delivered for the same or less. As a result they don't sell me
the stuff they don't have, and because there is a lot they no longer
have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they do have either because I
just don't check.
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain >>>> in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores >>>> all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in >>>> business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on >>>> the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it. >>>>
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt
that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a
source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of
those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer >>>> and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table >>>> saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT >>>> with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this. >>>> You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources. >>>> This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store >>>> and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in
stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one
anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50)
of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that
drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so
long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They
had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the
floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their
Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has
happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once.
You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties
you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally
unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters.
We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed
to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a
single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two
weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my
inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston
also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat
their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and
bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular
happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw
no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what
they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had
plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back
orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight
lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a
bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town.
Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery
market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock.
I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good,
though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
On 2/20/2022 2:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 8:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>> On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting >>>>> your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send >>>>> it down the mountain.
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst >>>>>>>>>>>> customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The >>>>>>>>>>>> staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that >>>>>>>>>>> ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy >>>>>>>>>>> the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a >>>>>>>>>>> point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website >>>>>>>>>>> before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started
ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an >>>>>>>>>>> idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different
length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who >>>>>>> buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in
town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long >>>>>>> to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. >>>>>>> I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I >>>>>>> bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's >>>>>>> hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is
pleased
about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have
what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to >>>>>>> town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto >>>>>>> for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not >>>>>>> important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for >>>>>>> you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into >>>>>>> your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to >>>>>>> get what they really needed somewhere else.
made to
shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack >>>>>> of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance >>>>> and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL
NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get >>>>> a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is >>>>> no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even >>>>> have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to >>>>> get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a >>>> lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his
head up
his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt
that you
needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of
bolt. He
just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is
that
for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that
a guest
might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a
terrible
host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common".
It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to
make only
*you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such
a terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business
a long
time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof
that he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
I understand. It doesn't mean while I'm in town getting what I "need"
I won't buy all the other things I need too. Things you/he stock. Is
my attitude crummy? Maybe, but Ed expressed his here. Mine as
expressed here is only a reaction to his.
I'm probably spinning my wheels here, but I'll give it one last try
before giving up on you.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for
personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competitive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but
customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot
doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper (all in one place sometimes). Who
is the biggest retailer in the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have
the broadest range of products of any retailer in the world as well. Is
Home depot going out of business. Not any time soon, because we still
go there if they do have what we need and we have to have it today. They
still have a broader range of product than any other local retailer in
their range of products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They
just don't have the range in each department that they did when they
opened the store. Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much
different from Harbor Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they
have it in stock today I just don't go there, and if I don't need it
today I can almost always have it delivered for the same or less. As a
result they don't sell me the stuff they don't have, and because there
is a lot they no longer have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they
do have either because I just don't check.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely
starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Well Sears would probably still be here to day had they not tried to
stock every thing.
You know the dead stock for the one customer that comes in needing an
odd ball gizmo.
On 2/20/2022 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 8:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>> On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst >>>>>>>>>>> customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The >>>>>>>>>>> staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that >>>>>>>>>> ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy >>>>>>>>>> the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a >>>>>>>>>> point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website >>>>>>>>>> before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started
ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?"Â She just looked at me like I was an
idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as
thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different
length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who
buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in
town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long >>>>>> to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. >>>>>> I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I
bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's >>>>>> hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is
pleased
about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have
what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to >>>>>> town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto >>>>>> for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not >>>>>> important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for
you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into
your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of
magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to >>>>>> get what they really needed somewhere else.
made to
shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack >>>>> of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send >>>> it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance >>>> and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL
NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get >>>> a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is >>>> no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even >>>> have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to
get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a
lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar
combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I
should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be
available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his
head up
his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt
that you
needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of
bolt. He
just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is
that
for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that
a guest
might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a
terrible
host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common".
It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to
make only
*you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such
a terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business
a long
time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof
that he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
I understand. It doesn't mean while I'm in town getting what I "need"
I won't buy all the other things I need too. Things you/he stock. Is
my attitude crummy? Maybe, but Ed expressed his here. Mine as
expressed here is only a reaction to his.
I'm probably spinning my wheels here, but I'll give it one last try
before giving up on you.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competitive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but
 customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper (all in one place sometimes). Who
is the biggest retailer in the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have the broadest range of products of any retailer in the world as well. Is Home depot going out of business. Not any time soon, because we still
go there if they do have what we need and we have to have it today. They still have a broader range of product than any other local retailer in
their range of products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They
just don't have the range in each department that they did when they
opened the store. Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much
different from Harbor Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they
have it in stock today I just don't go there, and if I don't need it
today I can almost always have it delivered for the same or less. As a result they don't sell me the stuff they don't have, and because there
is a lot they no longer have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they
do have either because I just don't check.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 18:53:49 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 2:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 8:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>>> On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting >>>>>> your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send >>>>>> it down the mountain.
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are >>>>>>> made to
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst >>>>>>>>>>>>> customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that >>>>>>>>>>>> ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy >>>>>>>>>>>> the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a >>>>>>>>>>>> point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website >>>>>>>>>>>> before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started >>>>>>>>>>>> ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an >>>>>>>>>>>> idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different >>>>>>>>>> length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who >>>>>>>> buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in >>>>>>>> town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long >>>>>>>> to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. >>>>>>>> I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper
groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I >>>>>>>> bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's >>>>>>>> hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is >>>>>>>> pleased
about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have >>>>>>>> what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to >>>>>>>> town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto >>>>>>>> for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not >>>>>>>> important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly.
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for >>>>>>>> you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into >>>>>>>> your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of >>>>>>>> magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to >>>>>>>> get what they really needed somewhere else.
shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack >>>>>>> of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance >>>>>> and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL
NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get >>>>>> a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is >>>>>> no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even >>>>>> have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to >>>>>> get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a >>>>> lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative. >>>>>
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be >>>>>> available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his
head up
his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt
that you
needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of >>>>> bolt. He
just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is >>>>> that
for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that >>>>> a guest
might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a
terrible
host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common". >>>>> It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to
make only
*you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such >>>>> a terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business >>>>> a long
time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof
that he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
I understand. It doesn't mean while I'm in town getting what I "need" >>>> I won't buy all the other things I need too. Things you/he stock. Is >>>> my attitude crummy? Maybe, but Ed expressed his here. Mine as
expressed here is only a reaction to his.
I'm probably spinning my wheels here, but I'll give it one last try
before giving up on you.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for >>> personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competitive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but >>>  customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot >>> doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper (all in one place sometimes). Who >>> is the biggest retailer in the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have >>> the broadest range of products of any retailer in the world as well. Is >>> Home depot going out of business. Not any time soon, because we still
go there if they do have what we need and we have to have it today. They >>> still have a broader range of product than any other local retailer in
their range of products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They
just don't have the range in each department that they did when they
opened the store. Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much
different from Harbor Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they
have it in stock today I just don't go there, and if I don't need it
today I can almost always have it delivered for the same or less. As a >>> result they don't sell me the stuff they don't have, and because there
is a lot they no longer have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they
do have either because I just don't check.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely
starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Well Sears would probably still be here to day had they not tried to
stock every thing.
You know the dead stock for the one customer that comes in needing an
odd ball gizmo.
Well, they would probably still be here if they stocked anything
people wanted to buy.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:33:18 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 1:15 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Interesting, relevant, and very recent story. A couple of weeks ago I
On 2/20/2022 12:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>> On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used >>>>>> item
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there >>>>>>> is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't >>>>>>> even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will >>>>>>> treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>>>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be >>>>>>> available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head >>>>>>> up his....
for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>>>>> smart to foreclose.  Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2 >>>>>> shear pins.
approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon >>>>> them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their >>>>> family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the
logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making >>>>> yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it >>>>> working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be >>>>> used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't >>>>> have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not >>>>> just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times. >>>>> Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that
the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who >>>>> also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile >>>>> will take care of his business and his family whether that includes
either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and >>>>> grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next >>>>> door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his >>>>> example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people >>>>> expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up >>>>> on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in >>>>> petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was >>>>> to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your >>>>> business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you >>>>> think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store.
Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They >>>>> were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't >>>>> think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that >>>>> supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We
believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my
first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you >>>> are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it >>>> made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each
individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? Sounds
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for
personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competetive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but
customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot
doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper. Who is the biggest retailer in
the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have the broadest range of
products of any retailer in the world as well. Is Home depot going out
of business. Not any time soon, because we still go there if they do
have what we need and we have to have it today. They still have a
broader range of product than any other local retailer in their range of
products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They just don't have
the range in each department that they did when they opened the store.
Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much different from Harbor
Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they have it in stock today I
just don't go there, and if I don't need it today I can almost always
have it delivered for the same or less. As a result they don't sell me
the stuff they don't have, and because there is a lot they no longer
have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they do have either because I
just don't check.
was looking for insulation retaining wires to hold the ceiling
insulation in my basement. The builder, of course, cheaped out and
used about half what he should have, so working up there anyway, I
thought I'd add them where needed. The only ones HD sold were 12".
The joists are 16" OC but manufactured so there isn't 14.5" between
them but 15.5". Even 16" wires wouldn't work. The next size up is
24".
On 2/20/2022 7:04 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 18:53:49 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 2:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/20/2022 8:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:You should have had that part in your own stock. Shear pins are >>>>>>>> made to
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst >>>>>>>>>>>>>> customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that >>>>>>>>>>>>> ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a >>>>>>>>>>>>> point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website >>>>>>>>>>>>> before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started >>>>>>>>>>>>> ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an >>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different >>>>>>>>>>> length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who >>>>>>>>> buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in >>>>>>>>> town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
When I get back to the farm and my mechanic asks why it took so long >>>>>>>>> to get the simple part she needed for the combine we get to talking. >>>>>>>>> I tell her I had to run into town for it and how much cheaper >>>>>>>>> groceries were in town instead of Leon's Grocery store, and how I >>>>>>>>> bought this cool new rifle over at Joe's Gun Shop instead of Leon's >>>>>>>>> hardware store. I might even mention how much the old lady is >>>>>>>>> pleased
about the new stove she got to pick out at Home Depot.
The farm mechanic heard two things in that. Leon doesn't have >>>>>>>>> what we
need, and things are cheaper in town. She tells her husband to go to >>>>>>>>> town for groceries, and while you are there pop over to O'Reilly Auto >>>>>>>>> for a new starter for the truck she is fixing up.
Floor space is valuable, but telling customers what they need is not >>>>>>>>> important is stupid whether its said directly or indirectly. >>>>>>>>>
Here is one of those truisms that came down from the mountain for >>>>>>>>> you.
Its a heck of a lot easier to sell to the customer who walks into >>>>>>>>> your
store than the one walking down the street, and its an order of >>>>>>>>> magnitude easier than trying to sell to the one who had to leave to >>>>>>>>> get what they really needed somewhere else.
shear and if you did not have a spare it is your incompetence and lack >>>>>>>> of planning. When one breaks, order from Grainger or McMaster. >>>>>>> And its always good business to sneer down your nose while insulting >>>>>>> your customer? They sure as hell didn't etch that one in stone and send >>>>>>> it down the mountain.
Instead of taking care of the customer whether its your vain arrogance >>>>>>> and stupidity for refusing to stock a low turn rate item he WILL >>>>>>> NEED or
his for not already having one the fact is that its a lot harder to get >>>>>>> a customer back than it is to keep them in the first place. The
customer still walked out.
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there is >>>>>>> no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't even >>>>>>> have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will
treat me
like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for town to >>>>>>> get ALL of what I need.
Maybe he treats you like dirt (if that's even true) because you have a >>>>>> lousy attitude. Attitude begets attitude; both positive and negative. >>>>>>
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be >>>>>>> available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his >>>>>>> head up
his....
"Dead simple items like a bolt" is not the same as "the exact bolt >>>>>> that you
needed". I'll bet he stocks hundreds of different sizes and types of >>>>>> bolt. He
just doesn't stock the one that no one (except you) buys. How hard is >>>>>> that
for you to understand?
Do you stock every single flavor of ice cream on the off chance that >>>>>> a guest
might want some Tillamook Marionberry Pie? What, you don't? What a >>>>>> terrible
host you are.
And don't come back and tell us that the bolt you wanted is "common". >>>>>> It's not
common for his clientele. He told you that. He's not in business to >>>>>> make only
*you* happy. But guess what: He is in business. If he was doing such >>>>>> a terrible
job and was such a lousy businessman, he'd have been out of business >>>>>> a long
time ago. The mere fact that he runs a thriving business is proof
that he is making
the right decisions regarding what he stocks.
I understand. It doesn't mean while I'm in town getting what I "need" >>>>> I won't buy all the other things I need too. Things you/he stock. Is >>>>> my attitude crummy? Maybe, but Ed expressed his here. Mine as
expressed here is only a reaction to his.
I'm probably spinning my wheels here, but I'll give it one last try
before giving up on you.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city >>>> for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for >>>> personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if >>>> they want to) competitive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores >>>> go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but >>>> customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot >>>> doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper (all in one place sometimes). Who >>>> is the biggest retailer in the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have >>>> the broadest range of products of any retailer in the world as well. Is >>>> Home depot going out of business. Not any time soon, because we still >>>> go there if they do have what we need and we have to have it today. They >>>> still have a broader range of product than any other local retailer in >>>> their range of products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They
just don't have the range in each department that they did when they
opened the store. Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much
different from Harbor Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they
have it in stock today I just don't go there, and if I don't need it
today I can almost always have it delivered for the same or less. As a >>>> result they don't sell me the stuff they don't have, and because there >>>> is a lot they no longer have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they >>>> do have either because I just don't check.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Well Sears would probably still be here to day had they not tried to
stock every thing.
You know the dead stock for the one customer that comes in needing an
odd ball gizmo.
Well, they would probably still be here if they stocked anything
people wanted to buy.
They had too much money tied up in dead merchandise.
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely
starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
On 2/20/2022 3:15 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
You stocked what sold. If you had that store in downtown Manhattan
would you still have it? You made money selling what people wanted to
buy.
Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
On 2/20/2022 3:35 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of >>>>>>>>>>>> two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point >>>>>>>>>>> of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before >>>>>>>>>>> coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up >>>>>>>>>>> the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I >>>>>>>>>>> walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter.
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business
instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either.
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>>>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I >>>>>>> buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain >>>>> in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores >>>>> all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in >>>>> business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on >>>>> the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it. >>>>>
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt >>>>> that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a
source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of
those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer >>>>> and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table >>>>> saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT >>>>> with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this. >>>>> You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources. >>>>> This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store >>>>> and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in
stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one
anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50)
of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that
drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so >>>> long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They
had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the
floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their
Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has
happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once.
You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties >>> you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally >>> unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters.
We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed
to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a
single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two
weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my
inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston
also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat
their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and
bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular
happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw >>> no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what
they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had >>> plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back
orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
Unless something has changed, SS did not send the ICS models to
Woodcraft except for a display model. When I bought and even relatively >recently the ICS TS was shipped direct to the customer after placing the >order with Woodcraft.
at least in the fall
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight
lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a
bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town.
Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery
market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock.
I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good,
though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
Because of Festool's pricing structure if my local Woodcraft does not
have the parts I order from Amazon for the same price with no shipping.
For the past year the parts ordered through Amazon have been shipped
direct from Hartville Hardware.
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely
starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon maySears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
still be just a book seller.
"Creative
destruction" is the term.
Then there is the problem that Amazon made no money for a decade
(longer?). Sears' stockholders would never have allowed that.
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >> >> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department
over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >> >> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
On 2/20/2022 4:20 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:33:18 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 1:15 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Interesting, relevant, and very recent story. A couple of weeks ago I
On 2/20/2022 12:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:45:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>>>> On 2/19/2022 8:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 8:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Ok, No problem. You have no respect and in fact express sentiments >>>>>> approaching hatred for anybody who makes a mistake and you wish upon >>>>>> them foreclosure bankruptcy and the destitution and starvation of their >>>>>> family, their employees and their employee's families. (This is the >>>>>> logical extension of what YOU said.) I sincerely appreciate you making >>>>>> yourself so clear. Nobody blames you for not having a part. I'm
On 2/19/2022 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:It is a consumable. If you don't have a shear pin, a commonly used >>>>>>> item
If you don't understand it or you refuse to understand it then there >>>>>>>> is no point in visiting Ed's Country Hardware store either. I didn't >>>>>>>> even have to go there to know he won't have it, and if I ask he will >>>>>>>> treat me like dirt for asking. I'll just skip that place and head for >>>>>>>> town to get ALL of what I need.
Just because the bank and I share ownership of an 800 million dollar >>>>>>>> combine it doesn't mean I have cash on hand to buy every spare part I >>>>>>>> should in your opinion, and dead simple items like a bolt should be >>>>>>>> available at any hardware store where the owner doesn't have his head >>>>>>>> up his....
for your machine you are not operating very smart and the bank would be >>>>>>> smart to foreclose. Don't blame your incompetence on my lack of $2 >>>>>>> shear pins.
telling you the consequences. Its a choice you make.
In the case of Harbor Freight they have less and less selection. Is it >>>>>> working for them? Maybe. I don't know. I know that in the past I
would always check Harbor Freight for a single use tool or tools to be >>>>>> used in high loss environments. Now I usually don't. Their huge
reduction in selection doesn't just mean I don't buy the tool they don't >>>>>> have, but I often don't even check for the tool they do have. Its not >>>>>> just because they didn't have just one part as illustrated in my
example. Its because they didn't have one part or one tool many times. >>>>>> Is my business unimportant to them. Probably. It doesn't mean that >>>>>> the loss of sales they could have made from many different people who >>>>>> also quit checking does not have an impact.
You do you Ed. I will do me, and that farmer you so despise and revile >>>>>> will take care of his business and his family whether that includes >>>>>> either of us or not. In your case probably not.
I once asked my dad why he had a huge selection of grade 2 grade 5 and >>>>>> grade 8 bolts in bulk bins in his country hardware store that was next >>>>>> door to my mom's country grocery and general store. My example was his >>>>>> example. I understood it to mean if you don't have the things people >>>>>> expect you to have for the type of business you have they will give up >>>>>> on you.
They will get what they need elsewhere, and while they are
there they will buy everything else too. I didn't get bogged down in >>>>>> petty details like you did. It was an example. Like a parable it was >>>>>> to illustrate a point. So is that farmer who is a member of my
community, donates to the local youth organizations, and supports your >>>>>> business deserving of your contempt because he didn't have a part you >>>>>> think he should have instead of bother you in your hardware store. >>>>>> Probably not.
We had farmers come in for field bolts to be used as shear pins. They >>>>>> were back up and running in a short time. Were they stupid. We didn't >>>>>> think so. They made money, supported our businesses, paid taxes that >>>>>> supported our school, and donated to local youth organizations. We >>>>>> believed in supporting those who supported us even if it was just
stocking some lower turn rate items. Some of those farmers were my >>>>>> first customers in my own business ventures.
Seems like there was difference in your Dad's clientele vs. the store you >>>>> are talking about. Obviously he was selling the bolts (you said so) so it >>>>> made sense to stock them. Your guy says you are the only one that
needed the bolt that he didn't have (you said so).
Was your dad in the habit of stocking every one-off item that each
individual farmer might come in for on a very rare occasion? Sounds
to me like he stocked what was selling. Smart man.
Sounds like you are bound and determined to say I am wrong no matter
what. We didn't make any money having a huge selection of bolts. We
made money by keeping the customer in the store.
Here is a parallel. Home Depot comes into a medium size or small city
for the first time with a very broad selection. They can't compete for
personal service with the small local stores, but they can be price (if
they want to) competetive due to their massive buying power. Because
people can get everything they need in one store a lot of other stores
go out of business or are forced to dramatically change. Then prices
creep up and selection goes down. That seems smart for Home Depot, but
customers start buying the things they need online because Home Depot >>> doesn't have everything any longer. Then the customers discover they
can buy everything online and cheaper. Who is the biggest retailer in
the world? Amazon. Coincidentally they have the broadest range of
products of any retailer in the world as well. Is Home depot going out
of business. Not any time soon, because we still go there if they do
have what we need and we have to have it today. They still have a
broader range of product than any other local retailer in their range of >>> products. We can still pay cash at Home Depot. They just don't have
the range in each department that they did when they opened the store.
Personally I think of Home Depot now as not much different from Harbor
Freight. Unless I need it now and I know they have it in stock today I
just don't go there, and if I don't need it today I can almost always
have it delivered for the same or less. As a result they don't sell me >>> the stuff they don't have, and because there is a lot they no longer
have they don't sell me a lot of the stuff they do have either because I >>> just don't check.
was looking for insulation retaining wires to hold the ceiling
insulation in my basement. The builder, of course, cheaped out and
used about half what he should have, so working up there anyway, I
thought I'd add them where needed. The only ones HD sold were 12".
The joists are 16" OC but manufactured so there isn't 14.5" between
them but 15.5". Even 16" wires wouldn't work. The next size up is
24".
They were probably not big sellers at your store. Did you try HD on line?
I needed a 30# propane tank. My local Ace does not stock them but one
12 miles away does.
I wanted tile for a backsplash in the kitchen. Went to three tile
specialty stores and nothing appealed to me. Waled in Lowe's and found
one I really liked inside of a minute. Will be installed tomorrow.
One store cannot be all things to all people but Amazon comes close. One >reason is what you found out, they are connected to other sellers like HD.
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
"Creative
destruction" is the term.
Then there is the problem that Amazon made no money for a decade
(longer?). Sears' stockholders would never have allowed that.
On 2/20/2022 10:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
"Change" is difficult. I guess especially if you're a huge organization,
not as hard for a small shop. I was listening to someone speak about
this earlier today (ex-CEO of the GAP) on "Wall Street Week", he said
it's easier to be creative if you are small. And he definitely thought
it was very important that people work together face-to-face, so that
they can share their creativity and bounce ideas off of one another.
Of course, his specialty was clothing in retail. Ironically, he didn't
seem to know so much about the financial end of it, except he didn't
agree with the notion of a retail outlet having "sales"--because then
people will wait for them, compare prices to get them, etc.
Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare. "Creative
destruction" is the term.
Then there is the problem that Amazon made no money for a decade
(longer?). Sears' stockholders would never have allowed that.
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
On 2/20/2022 9:48 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare. "Creative
destruction" is the term.
Then there is the problem that Amazon made no money for a decade
(longer?). Sears' stockholders would never have allowed that.
Forgot about that. I could not understand why people were still
investing so much in a company with no profits. Guess I was the shortsighted one.
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer service
supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not take a credit
card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two stores that we have
contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:05:10 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:35 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I tried to order the collet from Amazon. The only seller (Shaper)
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer >>>>>>>>>>>>> service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore >>>>>>>>>>>> the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the >>>>>>>>>>>> turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me.
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys >>>>>>>> them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain >>>>>> in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores >>>>>> all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in >>>>>> business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on >>>>>> the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it. >>>>>>
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt >>>>>> that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a >>>>>> source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of >>>>>> those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer >>>>>> and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table >>>>>> saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT >>>>>> with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this. >>>>>> You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in
stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one >>>>> anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50) >>>>> of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that >>>>> drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so >>>>> long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They >>>>> had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the
floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their
Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has
happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once.
You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties >>>> you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally >>>> unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters. >>>> We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed >>>> to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a
single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two >>>> weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my
inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston
also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat >>>> their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and >>>> bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular
happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw >>>> no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what
they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had >>>> plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back
orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
Unless something has changed, SS did not send the ICS models to
Woodcraft except for a display model. When I bought and even relatively
recently the ICS TS was shipped direct to the customer after placing the
order with Woodcraft.
at least in the fall
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight
lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a
bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town.
Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery
market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock.
I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good,
though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
Because of Festool's pricing structure if my local Woodcraft does not
have the parts I order from Amazon for the same price with no shipping.
For the past year the parts ordered through Amazon have been shipped
direct from Hartville Hardware.
wanted $10 shipping for a $50 part. They're as bad as Woodpeckers.
I've gotten as far as the checkout page at Woodpeckers and just
deleted everything because the shipping costs were absurd. I did the
same with Shaper.
Highland does a good job stocking Festool. They had the edge sanding
widget when it came out (though the store was closed for over a year). Woodcraft didn't know it existed. Still don't. Highland is out of the collets but their catalog says they'll be back in stock in a week or
two. They said they try to keep five Origins and workstations in stock
at all times. It's a well run family operation but obviously not as
large as Hartsville.
If anyone is buying stationary tools, WoodWerks didn't charge sales
tax (and minimal shipping) on my jointer. I don't know how they got
away with it but they did. They only collected Ohio and a couple of surrounding states' tax.
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 02:19:10 -0500, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 10:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>>
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant >>>> dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may >>>>> still be just a book seller.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
"Change" is difficult. I guess especially if you're a huge organization,
not as hard for a small shop. I was listening to someone speak about
this earlier today (ex-CEO of the GAP) on "Wall Street Week", he said
it's easier to be creative if you are small. And he definitely thought
it was very important that people work together face-to-face, so that
they can share their creativity and bounce ideas off of one another.
Of course, his specialty was clothing in retail. Ironically, he didn't
seem to know so much about the financial end of it, except he didn't
agree with the notion of a retail outlet having "sales"--because then
people will wait for them, compare prices to get them, etc.
Kodak's problem wasn't lack of vision, it was that their business
model was to sell a consumable and digital doesn't have consumables in
the same sense as film cameras.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
On 2/20/2022 9:48 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare. "Creative
destruction" is the term.
Then there is the problem that Amazon made no money for a decade
(longer?). Sears' stockholders would never have allowed that.
Forgot about that. I could not understand why people were still
investing so much in a company with no profits. Guess I was the
shortsighted one.
On 2/21/2022 8:43 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:48 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare. "Creative
destruction" is the term.
Then there is the problem that Amazon made no money for a decade
(longer?). Sears' stockholders would never have allowed that.
Forgot about that. I could not understand why people were still
investing so much in a company with no profits. Guess I was the
shortsighted one.
On 2/21/2022 7:05 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 02:19:10 -0500, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 10:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant >>>>> dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>>>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>>>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>>>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may >>>>>> still be just a book seller.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
"Change" is difficult. I guess especially if you're a huge organization, >>> not as hard for a small shop. I was listening to someone speak about
this earlier today (ex-CEO of the GAP) on "Wall Street Week", he said
it's easier to be creative if you are small. And he definitely thought
it was very important that people work together face-to-face, so that
they can share their creativity and bounce ideas off of one another.
Of course, his specialty was clothing in retail. Ironically, he didn't
seem to know so much about the financial end of it, except he didn't
agree with the notion of a retail outlet having "sales"--because then
people will wait for them, compare prices to get them, etc.
Kodak's problem wasn't lack of vision, it was that their business
model was to sell a consumable and digital doesn't have consumables in
the same sense as film cameras.
So yes digital still has consumables. People still want prints/hard
copies of the pictures that they take.
"Bill" wrote in message news:8B7PJ.2793$3Pje.1685@fx09.iad...
On 2/14/2022 1:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer service >>> supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will not take a credit >>> card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of two stores that we have
contacted are arrogant and independent.
Bottom of the barrel products,,, did you really expect better than that?
I have to say that this is one of the liveliest threads I've seen in my 30 >years or so of reading, and sporadically participating, on this rec.... ;~)
We've all had different but similar experiences with HF. My father bought a >lot of stuff from them over the years and I used a lot of it when I helped >him at his house. Some things were okay for one off purposes, some were okay >over all, some were totally useless--best you could say is they looked like >tools.
Just one category, corded power tools, I went a different route and bought >all Porter Cable: 587 Speedtronic circular saw, 314 trim saw, router, jig >saw, reciprocating saw, 3/8" drill, drywall driver, heat gun, random orbit >sander, 4" belt sander, palm sander... Some of that stuff is 30+ years old >now. I replaced things like cords on a few of them and pads on the
sanders... I built additions and houses, did multiple renovations, and a lot >of woodworking projects with them. With care and on-going maintenance I'll >probably have them until my demise (hopefully in another 20+ years). The
only one I replaced was the random orbit sander and that was maybe a month >ago... the pads were worn out again, the dust "bag" was worn out again, the >dust port rotated around the handle on it's own... it was time to go! Those >P-C tools were from a time when P-C stuff was really built to last. The new >stuff... not so much from what I've seen.
Hand tools... I broke my father's HF ratchet wrench handle and breaker bar >working on his zero turn mower. The HF drywall driver could not be adjusted >and hold the adjustment. The 1/2" drill's body broke due to the torque!
Screw driver tips would wear out seemingly instantly. Clamps slipped no >matter what you did. Pneumatic nailers... some worked okay and some jammed >constantly. No thanks, I bring my own tools to my parents' house now when >something needs to be done.
HF opened a store on my travel path within the past few years. I did in buy
a cheap cargo net to throw over firewood in the pickup truck. The way and >amount I of firewood I stack in the truck made it pretty much impossible for >any to fly out on the highway. However, the net looks good to anyone looking >for a "secured load" in my state which demands loads be secured.
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. I noticed one
at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears and other >big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said
early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 02:19:10 -0500, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 10:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>>
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant >>>> dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may >>>>> still be just a book seller.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
"Change" is difficult. I guess especially if you're a huge organization, >>not as hard for a small shop. I was listening to someone speak about
this earlier today (ex-CEO of the GAP) on "Wall Street Week", he said
it's easier to be creative if you are small. And he definitely thought
it was very important that people work together face-to-face, so that
they can share their creativity and bounce ideas off of one another.
Of course, his specialty was clothing in retail. Ironically, he didn't
seem to know so much about the financial end of it, except he didn't
agree with the notion of a retail outlet having "sales"--because then >>people will wait for them, compare prices to get them, etc.
Kodak's problem wasn't lack of vision, it was that their business
model was to sell a consumable and digital doesn't have consumables in
the same sense as film cameras.
Contrary to popular belief, Kodak went into digital early. They had a >working prototype digital camera in 1975. The resolution of available >sensors at the time was far too low to be commercially viable, the
prediction was that it might be able to compete with 110 film by
around 1995. And in 1996 Kodak started selling digital cameras.
Further, until their patent expired in 2007 it was a money maker for
them.
But there just wasn't a way to transition their business to digital
and maintain the same kind of sales volume.
There wasn't anything they could do to keep their business from
collapsing. The total digital camera market is estimated to be around
$21 billion a year. Corrected for inflation Kodak's peak sales were
over $28 billion. So even if they maintained 100% of the market they
would have ended up a smaller company.
On 2/20/2022 9:06 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:05:10 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:35 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I tried to order the collet from Amazon. The only seller (Shaper)
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a >>>>>>>>>>>>> website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in >>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with >>>>>>>>>>>>> that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories >>>>>>>>>>>>> It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my >>>>>>>>>>>>> other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have >>>>>>>>>>>>> any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said, >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20% >>>>>>>>>>>>> for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in >>>>>>>>>>> the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic >>>>>>>>>>> general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe >>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town >>>>>>>>> I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn >>>>>>>>> to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a >>>>>>>>> couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some >>>>>>>>> stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain
in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores
all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in >>>>>>> business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on >>>>>>> the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it. >>>>>>>
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt >>>>>>> that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a >>>>>>> source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of >>>>>>> those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer >>>>>>> and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table >>>>>>> saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT >>>>>>> with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this.
You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in
stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one >>>>>> anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50) >>>>>> of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that >>>>>> drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so >>>>>> long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They >>>>>> had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the >>>>>> floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their >>>>>> Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has >>>>> happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once. >>>>> You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties >>>>> you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally >>>>> unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters. >>>>> We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed >>>>> to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a
single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two >>>>> weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my
inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston >>>>> also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat >>>>> their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and >>>>> bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular >>>>> happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw >>>>> no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what >>>>> they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had >>>>> plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back >>>>> orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
Unless something has changed, SS did not send the ICS models to
Woodcraft except for a display model. When I bought and even relatively >>> recently the ICS TS was shipped direct to the customer after placing the >>> order with Woodcraft.
at least in the fall
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight >>>> lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a
bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town.
Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery
market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock.
I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good,
though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
Because of Festool's pricing structure if my local Woodcraft does not
have the parts I order from Amazon for the same price with no shipping.
For the past year the parts ordered through Amazon have been shipped
direct from Hartville Hardware.
wanted $10 shipping for a $50 part. They're as bad as Woodpeckers.
I've gotten as far as the checkout page at Woodpeckers and just
deleted everything because the shipping costs were absurd. I did the
same with Shaper.
Shaper ships for free with a minimum $75 order. Add a roll or two of
double stick tape or a couple of bits.
Highland does a good job stocking Festool. They had the edge sanding
widget when it came out (though the store was closed for over a year).
Woodcraft didn't know it existed. Still don't. Highland is out of the
collets but their catalog says they'll be back in stock in a week or
two. They said they try to keep five Origins and workstations in stock
at all times. It's a well run family operation but obviously not as
large as Hartsville.
I bought the edge sanding attachment and the sander to work with it
about a year ago, locally through a hard wood dealer. They are such a
small Festool dealer that no one realized these hard to find accessories >would be at this lumber yard.
If anyone is buying stationary tools, WoodWerks didn't charge sales
tax (and minimal shipping) on my jointer. I don't know how they got
away with it but they did. They only collected Ohio and a couple of
surrounding states' tax.
It is up to the individual states to "enforce" their sales tax laws.
This happened in Texas for many many years but lately most any retail
sale is taxed and collected for sales in Texas these days.
IIRC technically the business collects sales tax "FOR" the state that
the goods will be delivered to. If sales tax was collected it would
need to be submitted to those states.
AND I live is a PIA location as far as sales tax is concerned. We have
to determine which taxing authorities that I/we sell to and that may
change if the customer picks up from us vs. us delivering. I think it
has to do with where the customer was when paying for the item. If i
deliver to a different taxing authority area I charge that particular tax.
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't
compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1,
A1, 650, and a 630.
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have
not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of
frames per second is pretty cool.
I caught this one on a string of about 20 frames. >https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51895514411/in/dateposted/
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't
compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too >>> with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much
trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1,
A1, 650, and a 630.
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have
not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of
frames per second is pretty cool.
I caught this one on a string of about 20 frames.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51895514411/in/dateposted/
That looks like, yeah throw the ball, throw the ball please, throw the
ball.
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:35:21 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:06 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:05:10 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:35 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I tried to order the collet from Amazon. The only seller (Shaper)
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a
website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in
to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with
that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories
It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my
other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I
stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20%
for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2 >>>>>>>>>>>> metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping >>>>>>>>>> next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I >>>>>>>>>> had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain
in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores
all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in >>>>>>>> business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on
the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it. >>>>>>>>
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt >>>>>>>> that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a >>>>>>>> source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of >>>>>>>> those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer >>>>>>>> and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table
saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT >>>>>>>> with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this.
You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in >>>>>>> stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one >>>>>>> anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50) >>>>>>> of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that >>>>>>> drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so >>>>>>> long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They >>>>>>> had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the >>>>>>> floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more
expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their >>>>>>> Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has >>>>>> happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once. >>>>>> You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties >>>>>> you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally >>>>>> unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters. >>>>>> We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed >>>>>> to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a >>>>>> single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two >>>>>> weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my >>>>>> inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston >>>>>> also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat >>>>>> their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and >>>>>> bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular >>>>>> happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw >>>>>> no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what >>>>>> they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had >>>>>> plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back >>>>>> orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
Unless something has changed, SS did not send the ICS models to
Woodcraft except for a display model. When I bought and even relatively >>>> recently the ICS TS was shipped direct to the customer after placing the >>>> order with Woodcraft.
at least in the fall
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight >>>>> lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a
bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town.
Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery >>>>> market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock. >>>>> I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good,
though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
Because of Festool's pricing structure if my local Woodcraft does not
have the parts I order from Amazon for the same price with no shipping. >>>> For the past year the parts ordered through Amazon have been shipped >>>> direct from Hartville Hardware.
wanted $10 shipping for a $50 part. They're as bad as Woodpeckers.
I've gotten as far as the checkout page at Woodpeckers and just
deleted everything because the shipping costs were absurd. I did the
same with Shaper.
Shaper ships for free with a minimum $75 order. Add a roll or two of
double stick tape or a couple of bits.
Didn't know that. It sounds like a plan. I'm sure the Shaper Tape
will get used.
Highland does a good job stocking Festool. They had the edge sanding
widget when it came out (though the store was closed for over a year).
Woodcraft didn't know it existed. Still don't. Highland is out of the
collets but their catalog says they'll be back in stock in a week or
two. They said they try to keep five Origins and workstations in stock
at all times. It's a well run family operation but obviously not as
large as Hartsville.
I bought the edge sanding attachment and the sander to work with it
about a year ago, locally through a hard wood dealer. They are such a
small Festool dealer that no one realized these hard to find accessories
would be at this lumber yard.
If anyone is buying stationary tools, WoodWerks didn't charge sales
tax (and minimal shipping) on my jointer. I don't know how they got
away with it but they did. They only collected Ohio and a couple of
surrounding states' tax.
It is up to the individual states to "enforce" their sales tax laws.
This happened in Texas for many many years but lately most any retail
sale is taxed and collected for sales in Texas these days.
But the feds have given them the power to enforce their laws, complete
with penalties. Add to that, that *I* actually owe the tax. I'll pay
it on my state income tax form as a "use tax". <wink> <wink>
IIRC technically the business collects sales tax "FOR" the state that
the goods will be delivered to. If sales tax was collected it would
need to be submitted to those states.
AND I live is a PIA location as far as sales tax is concerned. We have
to determine which taxing authorities that I/we sell to and that may
change if the customer picks up from us vs. us delivering. I think it
has to do with where the customer was when paying for the item. If i
deliver to a different taxing authority area I charge that particular tax.
Same here. The tax is owed to the retailer's location if it's a brick
and mortar store or by the buyer's residence otherwise. Every tax jurisdiction has its own rate, whether it be a county, city, school
district, whatever, and they all add. The tax rate charged is
determined by street address.
On 2/21/2022 2:03 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:35:21 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:06 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:05:10 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:35 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I tried to order the collet from Amazon. The only seller (Shaper)
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote:
Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a
website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally
or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in
to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with
that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories
It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my
other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I
stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check." Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model." She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> days instead of a few hours, but I got it done.
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20%
for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost >>>>>>>>>>>>> bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when >>>>>>>>>>>>> Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more >>>>>>>>>>>>> than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and >>>>>>>>>>> you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and >>>>>>>>>>> kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain
in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores
all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in
business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on
the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it.
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt >>>>>>>>> that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a >>>>>>>>> source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of >>>>>>>>> those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer
and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table
saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT
with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this.
You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in >>>>>>>> stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one >>>>>>>> anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50) >>>>>>>> of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that >>>>>>>> drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so >>>>>>>> long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They >>>>>>>> had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the >>>>>>>> floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more >>>>>>>> expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their >>>>>>>> Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories.
Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has >>>>>>> happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once. >>>>>>> You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties
you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally
unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters. >>>>>>> We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed >>>>>>> to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a >>>>>>> single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two >>>>>>> weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my >>>>>>> inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston >>>>>>> also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat >>>>>>> their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and >>>>>>> bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular >>>>>>> happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw
no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what >>>>>>> they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had
plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back >>>>>>> orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
Unless something has changed, SS did not send the ICS models to
Woodcraft except for a display model. When I bought and even relatively >>>>> recently the ICS TS was shipped direct to the customer after placing the >>>>> order with Woodcraft.
at least in the fall
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight >>>>>> lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a >>>>>> bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town. >>>>>> Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery >>>>>> market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock. >>>>>> I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good, >>>>>> though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
Because of Festool's pricing structure if my local Woodcraft does not >>>>> have the parts I order from Amazon for the same price with no shipping. >>>>> For the past year the parts ordered through Amazon have been shipped >>>>> direct from Hartville Hardware.
wanted $10 shipping for a $50 part. They're as bad as Woodpeckers.
I've gotten as far as the checkout page at Woodpeckers and just
deleted everything because the shipping costs were absurd. I did the
same with Shaper.
Shaper ships for free with a minimum $75 order. Add a roll or two of
double stick tape or a couple of bits.
Didn't know that. It sounds like a plan. I'm sure the Shaper Tape
will get used.
Highland does a good job stocking Festool. They had the edge sanding
widget when it came out (though the store was closed for over a year). >>>> Woodcraft didn't know it existed. Still don't. Highland is out of the >>>> collets but their catalog says they'll be back in stock in a week or
two. They said they try to keep five Origins and workstations in stock >>>> at all times. It's a well run family operation but obviously not as
large as Hartsville.
I bought the edge sanding attachment and the sander to work with it
about a year ago, locally through a hard wood dealer. They are such a
small Festool dealer that no one realized these hard to find accessories >>> would be at this lumber yard.
If anyone is buying stationary tools, WoodWerks didn't charge sales
tax (and minimal shipping) on my jointer. I don't know how they got
away with it but they did. They only collected Ohio and a couple of
surrounding states' tax.
It is up to the individual states to "enforce" their sales tax laws.
This happened in Texas for many many years but lately most any retail
sale is taxed and collected for sales in Texas these days.
But the feds have given them the power to enforce their laws, complete
with penalties. Add to that, that *I* actually owe the tax. I'll pay
it on my state income tax form as a "use tax". <wink> <wink>
Yes, the individual is suppose to pay the sales tax on untaxed goods. >Something that we absolutely do. My wife was an enforcement officer for
the state. She gets a pension from that career and we are not willing
to save a few tax dollars to forfeit the pension.
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't
compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1,
A1, 650, and a 630.
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have
not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of
frames per second is pretty cool.
I caught this one on a string of about 20 frames. >https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51895514411/in/dateposted/
On 2/20/2022 9:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >> >>Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >> >>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >> >>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
"Pretty strong" is a very relative term.
Down from >65,000 employees in the 80's to ~4,500 today.
Removed from the S&P in 2010, delisted by the NYSE and moved to OTC in 2012.
Filed for bankruptcy and canceled health care benefits for 56,000 retirees in 2012.
Or should I say "Filed for bankruptcy *in order to* cancel health care benefits for
56,000 retirees in 2012"?
Stock price >$94 in 1997, a penny stock by 2011. (EK, not KODK. Even KODK is <$5)
From a perennial Fortune 500 company to a penny stock. Ouch!
Today's Kodak (KODK) is not the Kodak (EK) of old. The old Kodak stuck with the idea that
roll coating (film) would be a sustainable business for way too long. They basically invented
digital photography and then put it on the shelf. By the time they gave up the film dream, the
rest of the digital world had passed them by. They were losing money on every digital camera
they sold. Between 1998 and 2000 they lost over $360M on the digital side of the business. So
what was their next move? They lowered the price of their cameras in 2000 to try and garner
more market share. Nice try...too late.
They eventually sold a portfolio of digital patents allegedly worth $2.5B (with a B) for $525M. That
wasn't a very strong play. Granted, the $2.5B value is very suspect because of all the licensing
agreements that were attached. Besides, they were hurting so bad at that point that they didn't
come to the table with a lot of negotiating power.
What passes for "Kodak" today is a shadow of what the company once was.
On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >> >>Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >> >>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when
they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >> >>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may
still be just a book seller.
dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
"Pretty strong" is a very relative term.
Down from >65,000 employees in the 80's to ~4,500 today.
Removed from the S&P in 2010, delisted by the NYSE and moved to OTC in 2012.
Filed for bankruptcy and canceled health care benefits for 56,000 retirees in 2012.
Or should I say "Filed for bankruptcy *in order to* cancel health care benefits for
56,000 retirees in 2012"?
Stock price >$94 in 1997, a penny stock by 2011. (EK, not KODK. Even KODK is <$5)
From a perennial Fortune 500 company to a penny stock. Ouch!
Today's Kodak (KODK) is not the Kodak (EK) of old. The old Kodak stuck with the idea that
roll coating (film) would be a sustainable business for way too long. They basically invented
digital photography and then put it on the shelf. By the time they gave up the film dream, the
rest of the digital world had passed them by. They were losing money on every digital camera
they sold. Between 1998 and 2000 they lost over $360M on the digital side of the business. So
what was their next move? They lowered the price of their cameras in 2000 to try and garner
more market share. Nice try...too late.
They eventually sold a portfolio of digital patents allegedly worth $2.5B (with a B) for $525M. That
wasn't a very strong play. Granted, the $2.5B value is very suspect because of all the licensing
agreements that were attached. Besides, they were hurting so bad at that point that they didn't
come to the table with a lot of negotiating power.
What passes for "Kodak" today is a shadow of what the company once was.
JC Penney's "new" (fiveish years back) thought the same thing and
killed a zombie. Sales were the only reason people set foot in the
dinosaur.
"Sales" are how you move dead merchandise out of the way for new
stuff. I guess TJ Max works too,
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500, "John Grossbohlin" ><nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. I noticed one >>at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears and >>otherI bought a couple of the tool cart style (five drawer) for $179. It's >certainly good and worth every penny of $179. The rest of my cabinets
big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said >>early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
are from Sam's Club, the Classics Sevelle series. The drawers are
chin cy but everything else is very nice. The workbenches, in
particular are nice. Really heavy with a 1-1/2" maple top, They're >excellent bargains at $240.
wrote in message news:qhm71hh0fg59nj51r29mpaflmrhk9000j9@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. II bought a couple of the tool cart style (five drawer) for $179. It's
noticed one
at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears
and other
big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said >>> early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
certainly good and worth every penny of $179. The rest of my cabinets
are from Sam's Club, the Classics Sevelle series. The drawers are
chin cy but everything else is very nice. The workbenches, in
particular are nice. Really heavy with a 1-1/2" maple top, They're
excellent bargains at $240.
My son and I took a ride to HF last evening to look at the rolling tool cabinets as they had a holiday sale underway that ended yesterday. Since
the store was about a half hour away on the highway I called them
earlier in the day to check their holiday hours. I mentioned where I was coming from and what I was looking for. The guy that answered the phone couldn't have been more helpful. He not only checked the stock on the computer but he put his hands on them in the store room to make sure
they were there.
When we got to the store I was actually surprised by the rolling tool cabinets. The drawers worked smoothly, the case was solid, the overall
fit and finish was quite good, the drawers all had non-slip liners, and
with the sale the price was very competitive. We ended up driving out of there with two of them! One for my son and one for me... Would they
hold up for decades under heavy use in a commercial automotive shop... probably not. In our shops they stand a good chance of lasting
indefinitely and are light years ahead of the Craftsman rolling tool
cabinets I looked at (that had terrible reviews on-line and clunky
drawer slides). I think these will work out just fine.
My son had never been in a HF so he walked around. After working in my
shop and with my tools he could tell a lot of the stuff was not up to
snuff. He stopped at the screwdriver display and examined them. There
was a set of 12 that sells for $8. He knew I just replaced all my screw drivers and had examined them. Some of the old ones were 40+ year old Craftsman and other brands that had disappeared from the market. Most
were good tools but the years of use caught up with them. My new Klein screwdrivers cost $7-$20 each... the HF screwdrivers averaged to about
70¢ each. My son could tell they weren't in the same league as the
Klein. I was glad to see he paid attention to what I'd been telling him over the years. ;~)
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't
compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too >>> with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much
trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1,
A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA.
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
The Canon micro-prism TTL focus and meter linked to the F-Stop were
great. Friends preferred Nikon's split focus but it didn't work for
me for some reason. Stop-down metering was a drag too.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have
not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of
frames per second is pretty cool.
I switched to Olympus but it was short lived. I carry my phone
everywhere. A camera is a PITA to lug around. If I could marry the
FD series lenses to a DSLR, it would change things. I'd be lugging
20lbs of lenses around. ;-)
I caught this one on a string of about 20 frames.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51895514411/in/dateposted/
On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>>Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant >>>> dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held >>>>>> onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely >>>>>> starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may >>>>> still be just a book seller.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
"Pretty strong" is a very relative term.
Down from >65,000 employees in the 80's to ~4,500 today.
Removed from the S&P in 2010, delisted by the NYSE and moved to OTC in 2012.
Filed for bankruptcy and canceled health care benefits for 56,000 retirees in 2012.
Or should I say "Filed for bankruptcy *in order to* cancel health care benefits for
56,000 retirees in 2012"?
Stock price >$94 in 1997, a penny stock by 2011. (EK, not KODK. Even KODK is <$5)
From a perennial Fortune 500 company to a penny stock. Ouch!
Today's Kodak (KODK) is not the Kodak (EK) of old. The old Kodak stuck with the idea that
roll coating (film) would be a sustainable business for way too long. They basically invented
digital photography and then put it on the shelf. By the time they gave up the film dream, the
rest of the digital world had passed them by. They were losing money on every digital camera
they sold. Between 1998 and 2000 they lost over $360M on the digital side of the business. So
what was their next move? They lowered the price of their cameras in 2000 to try and garner
more market share. Nice try...too late.
They eventually sold a portfolio of digital patents allegedly worth $2.5B (with a B) for $525M. That
wasn't a very strong play. Granted, the $2.5B value is very suspect because of all the licensing
agreements that were attached. Besides, they were hurting so bad at that point that they didn't
come to the table with a lot of negotiating power.
What passes for "Kodak" today is a shadow of what the company once was.
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 15:02:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 2:03 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:35:21 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:06 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 19:05:10 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/20/2022 3:35 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:I tried to order the collet from Amazon. The only seller (Shaper)
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:42:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 2/19/2022 10:29 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:54:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>>> wrote:Some stores do stock a lot of inventory. But possibly, and this has >>>>>>>> happened to me in the past, items on back order show up all at once. >>>>>>>> You tend to be over stocked as a result. With supply chain difficulties
On 2/19/2022 6:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/19/2022 6:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/19/2022 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2022 11:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/18/2022 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:You stock what sells. Floor space is valuable.
On 2/18/2022 12:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/14/2022 12:49 PM, Johnny Templeton wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight qualifies from my experience as the worst customer
service supplier possible. They don't want to ship. They will
not take a credit card to hold an item for pick up. The staff of
two stores that we have contacted are arrogant and independent.
Harbor Freight started changing after they threw out the old man.
The writing was on the wall. Inventory selection has been at a
constant decline ever since. Clearly the son was applying turn
rate and margin principles learned in business classes that ignore
the fact that if you don't have what a customer wants they buy the
turn rate items elsewhere too. I get less and less at Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight simply because they don't have the huge array of single
use specialty tools they used to have. At least now they have a
website that usually tells me if what I want is in stock locally
or not. Not always, but most of the time.
My own recent bad experience was kind of eye opening. I went in
to buy a trash pump that I had checked stock on-line. Along with
that trash pump I planned to buy hoses, ad other misc accessories
It had one of those take this tag to the cashier pouches on the
shelf, so I grabbed a tag and all the accessories. I made a point
of handing the tag to the cashier first. I didn't set any of my
other stuff on the counter. She took the tag and set it aside.
Then she proceeded to take stuff out of my cart to ring it up. I
stopped her and said, "Lets get somebody on that pump first." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
She replied that she didn't need to check. She knew they didn't
have any in stock. I let here know I'd checked the website before
coming. She said, "I'm the store manager and I know we don't have
any, but I'll check."Â Then she finally punched it in, and said,
"Yeah only the display model."Â She immediately started ringing up
the accessories and hoses again.
I asked, "Why do I need any of that stuff if you don't have the
pump it goes with?" She just looked at me like I was an idiot. I
walked around the cart and walked out.
I used an old sump pump to do the job instead. It took a couple
days instead of a few hours, but I got it done. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Harbor Freight is trying to be something its not. Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working for them, but it doesn't usually work for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
FYI: There is an upcoming 10% off any single item coupon. (20%
for In Track members).
I believe, currently, that HF is suffering from the same as most
all manufacturers.
That being the need from an enema at the California ship yards. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When Old Man Schmidt ran the company and I was a kid hanging out in
the back of my dad's hardware store I use to thumb through the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harbor Freight AND SALVAGE catalog with as much enjoyment as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thumbing through an Alden's Christmas toy catalog. The Harbor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freight Catalog was almost as thick, and it was printed on almost
bible thin paper. Now they couldn't fill a good newsletter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just look at one item. The used to sell 15-20 different metal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lathes. Now they sell just 4 if you include wood lathes, and the 2
metal lathes they sell are the same machine with different length beds.
This applies to nearly everything they used to sell. It didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen from covid either. It clearly and definitely started when
Old Man Schmidt was removed from the building.
In my opinion its a direct result of over application of some basic
general business principles. In college even the business >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor who tried teach these as etched in stone brought down >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the mountain grudgingly admitted there were exceptions. Maybe
Harbor Freight needed to clean up a little bit, but removing more
than 90% of their selection wasn't the right answer either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if I walk into your country hardware store for a grade 2 field >>>>>>>>>>>> bolt because a shear pin broke on my 800 million dollar combine and
you tell me, we don't sell those because you are the only one who buys
them and its not worth it for us. I'll say "ok," load my wife and
kids back in the pickup truck and head into town. While I'm in town
I'll buy all my groceries at the big supermarket instead of stopping
next door at your grocery store for them. Since I'm already in town I
buy the new stove the old lady wanted, and purchase that new rifle I
had been eyeballing in your gun rack. So because you were to stubborn
to stock what I needed I bought a bunch of high turn rate items and a
couple high margin items from somebody else. Instead of having some
stocking costs you lost a huge number of sales.
Oh pleeeeease, that is not how the retail world works, those that remain
in business. It is a daily occurrence that customers walk out of stores
all over the world and empty handed every day. One does not remain in
business by continuing to buy an item that no longer warrants space on
the shelf or by stocking "everything" and not ever selling some of it.
And referring back to all those lathes, 60 was it? I seriously doubt
that those lathes were in his stock. Certainly he had access to a >>>>>>>>>> source that he could become a middle man with that variety. And of >>>>>>>>>> those 60 lathes they certainly would be shipped direct to the customer
and not from a single source/manufacturer.
Several woodworking stores sell and stock SawStop. You can buy a table
saw right when you walk inside and pay and load it in your truck. BUT
with a very popular model and is the original model, you cannot do this.
You pay and the saw is shipped direct from one of Woodcraft's sources.
This is why their catalog has more in it than you can go to the store
and walk out with. That is ONE example of many.
I was the local Woodcraft today. They had three models of SSs in >>>>>>>>> stock. They didn't have any of the Laguna saws in stock but sold one >>>>>>>>> anyway. ;-) They also had all three models (16/32. 19/36, and 25/50) >>>>>>>>> of the Supermax drum sanders and a couple of Jets. I didn't know that >>>>>>>>> drum sanders were so popular.
They were short of the mid/high end lathes because the lead time is so
long, at least three months, and they're selling like hotcakes. They >>>>>>>>> had four mobility kits for the Revo 18/36 ($700 for wheels) on the >>>>>>>>> floor waiting for something to put them on.
Of course they can't carry everything but they keep a lot more >>>>>>>>> expensive inventory in the store than one would expect. OTOH, their >>>>>>>>> Festool inventory is really shabby, particularly accessories. >>>>>>>>
you order as much as you can and hope for the best. This is not totally
unlike a back order from the source.
I recall way back when GM was having issues with catalytic converters. >>>>>>>> We were replacing 4~5 per day and we could not get enough. This seemed
to go on for years. I finally got my back ordered converters in a >>>>>>>> single shipment of over 200 units. I typically ordered 10~15 every two >>>>>>>> weeks. To put that into perspective that increased the value of my >>>>>>>> inventory by 20%. This was 40 years ago and GM parts was in Houston >>>>>>>> also. I did not stock the obscure stuff, I let the other dealers bloat
their inventories with these odd parts. I stocked items that moved and
bought the odd stuff as needed and daily. GMPD was not in particular >>>>>>>> happy with me. They wanted me to keep a 120 day supply of parts. I saw
no need for more than 60. So my inventory was probably half of what >>>>>>>> they thought I should have.
The 120 day supply was to buffer their inability to supply parts. I had
plenty of other sources than GMPD to get GM parts.
So what may appear to be a well stocked show room floor could be back >>>>>>>> orders or product finally being delivered all at once.
Could be but they've always had SSs in stock and,
Unless something has changed, SS did not send the ICS models to
Woodcraft except for a display model. When I bought and even relatively >>>>>> recently the ICS TS was shipped direct to the customer after placing the >>>>>> order with Woodcraft.
at least in the fall
of 2020 they had all of the SuperMax sanders and at least six or eight >>>>>>> lathes in stock, including three Laguna models, a Powermatic, and a >>>>>>> bunch of midis of various sorts. There are two Woodcrafts in town. >>>>>>> Between the two, they stock a good slice of the stationary machinery >>>>>>> market.
I wish they'd get the back-ordered Festool accessories back in stock. >>>>>>> I may be near Highland in a couple of weeks. They're usually good, >>>>>>> though they're out of the Shaper 1/8" collet.
Because of Festool's pricing structure if my local Woodcraft does not >>>>>> have the parts I order from Amazon for the same price with no shipping. >>>>>> For the past year the parts ordered through Amazon have been shipped >>>>>> direct from Hartville Hardware.
wanted $10 shipping for a $50 part. They're as bad as Woodpeckers.
I've gotten as far as the checkout page at Woodpeckers and just
deleted everything because the shipping costs were absurd. I did the >>>>> same with Shaper.
Shaper ships for free with a minimum $75 order. Add a roll or two of
double stick tape or a couple of bits.
Didn't know that. It sounds like a plan. I'm sure the Shaper Tape
will get used.
Done.
I didn't think you lived in California.
Highland does a good job stocking Festool. They had the edge sanding >>>>> widget when it came out (though the store was closed for over a year). >>>>> Woodcraft didn't know it existed. Still don't. Highland is out of the >>>>> collets but their catalog says they'll be back in stock in a week or >>>>> two. They said they try to keep five Origins and workstations in stock >>>>> at all times. It's a well run family operation but obviously not as
large as Hartsville.
I bought the edge sanding attachment and the sander to work with it
about a year ago, locally through a hard wood dealer. They are such a >>>> small Festool dealer that no one realized these hard to find accessories >>>> would be at this lumber yard.
If anyone is buying stationary tools, WoodWerks didn't charge sales
tax (and minimal shipping) on my jointer. I don't know how they got >>>>> away with it but they did. They only collected Ohio and a couple of
surrounding states' tax.
It is up to the individual states to "enforce" their sales tax laws.
This happened in Texas for many many years but lately most any retail
sale is taxed and collected for sales in Texas these days.
But the feds have given them the power to enforce their laws, complete
with penalties. Add to that, that *I* actually owe the tax. I'll pay
it on my state income tax form as a "use tax". <wink> <wink>
Yes, the individual is suppose to pay the sales tax on untaxed goods.
Something that we absolutely do. My wife was an enforcement officer for
the state. She gets a pension from that career and we are not willing
to save a few tax dollars to forfeit the pension.
On 2/21/2022 5:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/20/2022 9:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 21:09:48 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: >>>>Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
On 2/20/2022 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:Sears was a Titanic with no rudder. Seeing the future would have meant >>>> dismantling the present. That's exceedingly rare.
Musings for thought:
I sometimes wonder if Amazon would be what it is today if Sears had held
onto their massive selection and transitioned their catalog department >>>>>> over to an online presence instead of shutting it down. In 1993 when >>>>>> they shut down the catalog department on-line services were just barely
starting to reach beyond the computer nerds.
Sears screwed up and did not see the future. If they did, Amazon may >>>>> still be just a book seller.
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
"Pretty strong" is a very relative term.Still pretty strong from a customers point of view that wants prints.
Down from >65,000 employees in the 80's to ~4,500 today.
Removed from the S&P in 2010, delisted by the NYSE and moved to OTC in 2012.
Filed for bankruptcy and canceled health care benefits for 56,000 retirees in 2012.
Or should I say "Filed for bankruptcy *in order to* cancel health care benefits for
56,000 retirees in 2012"?
Stock price >$94 in 1997, a penny stock by 2011. (EK, not KODK. Even KODK is <$5)
From a perennial Fortune 500 company to a penny stock. Ouch!
Today's Kodak (KODK) is not the Kodak (EK) of old. The old Kodak stuck with the idea that
roll coating (film) would be a sustainable business for way too long. They basically invented
digital photography and then put it on the shelf. By the time they gave up the film dream, the
rest of the digital world had passed them by. They were losing money on every digital camera
they sold. Between 1998 and 2000 they lost over $360M on the digital side of the business. So
what was their next move? They lowered the price of their cameras in 2000 to try and garner
more market share. Nice try...too late.
They eventually sold a portfolio of digital patents allegedly worth $2.5B (with a B) for $525M. That
wasn't a very strong play. Granted, the $2.5B value is very suspect because of all the licensing
agreements that were attached. Besides, they were hurting so bad at that point that they didn't
come to the table with a lot of negotiating power.
What passes for "Kodak" today is a shadow of what the company once was.
Well now that you looked all of that up, ...
On 2/21/2022 11:52 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message news:qhm71hh0fg59nj51r29mpaflmrhk9000j9@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. II bought a couple of the tool cart style (five drawer) for $179. It's
noticed one
at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears
and other
big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said >>>> early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
certainly good and worth every penny of $179. The rest of my cabinets
are from Sam's Club, the Classics Sevelle series. The drawers are
chin cy but everything else is very nice. The workbenches, in
particular are nice. Really heavy with a 1-1/2" maple top, They're
excellent bargains at $240.
My son and I took a ride to HF last evening to look at the rolling tool
cabinets as they had a holiday sale underway that ended yesterday. Since
the store was about a half hour away on the highway I called them
earlier in the day to check their holiday hours. I mentioned where I was
coming from and what I was looking for. The guy that answered the phone
couldn't have been more helpful. He not only checked the stock on the
computer but he put his hands on them in the store room to make sure
they were there.
When we got to the store I was actually surprised by the rolling tool
cabinets. The drawers worked smoothly, the case was solid, the overall
fit and finish was quite good, the drawers all had non-slip liners, and
with the sale the price was very competitive. We ended up driving out of
there with two of them! One for my son and one for me... Would they
hold up for decades under heavy use in a commercial automotive shop...
probably not. In our shops they stand a good chance of lasting
indefinitely and are light years ahead of the Craftsman rolling tool
cabinets I looked at (that had terrible reviews on-line and clunky
drawer slides). I think these will work out just fine.
My son had never been in a HF so he walked around. After working in my
shop and with my tools he could tell a lot of the stuff was not up to
snuff. He stopped at the screwdriver display and examined them. There
was a set of 12 that sells for $8. He knew I just replaced all my screw
drivers and had examined them. Some of the old ones were 40+ year old
Craftsman and other brands that had disappeared from the market. Most
were good tools but the years of use caught up with them. My new Klein
screwdrivers cost $7-$20 each... the HF screwdrivers averaged to about
70¢ each. My son could tell they weren't in the same league as the
Klein. I was glad to see he paid attention to what I'd been telling him
over the years. ;~)
The pro tool boxes only need to be strong when being loaded into the
back of a truck and moved to a new employer. I have seen plenty of
Craftsman tool boxes hold up for decades in a mechanical shop.
I bought my wife one of the small roll around HF boxes for her quilting >studio.
That said I will say that the quality of the ICON/Ikon brand tool boxes
seem to be very Impressive.
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't
compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too >>>> with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1,
A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a
build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to
match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body.
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints.
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
The Canon micro-prism TTL focus and meter linked to the F-Stop were
great. Friends preferred Nikon's split focus but it didn't work for
me for some reason. Stop-down metering was a drag too.
Yes, my TX had the 2 circles a split bulls eye and the prism circle
around that. You could not miss focusing with that. I have to say that
I don't recall what the view finder focus looked like on the AE1 and A1.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have >>> not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of
frames per second is pretty cool.
I switched to Olympus but it was short lived. I carry my phone
everywhere. A camera is a PITA to lug around. If I could marry the
FD series lenses to a DSLR, it would change things. I'd be lugging
20lbs of lenses around. ;-)
LOL. Damn phones make every one look good with out knowing the
mechanics. I don't miss the Domke back pack though.
I have to be on a mission to carry the DSLR.
The pro tool boxes only need to be strong when being loaded into the back
of a truck and moved to a new employer. I have seen plenty of Craftsman
tool boxes hold up for decades in a mechanical shop.
"Leon"Â wrote in message news:VpCdncy9Hqu58oj_nZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com...
The pro tool boxes only need to be strong when being loaded into the
back of a truck and moved to a new employer. I have seen plenty of
Craftsman tool boxes hold up for decades in a mechanical shop.
I've got a Craftsman top chest that is about 25 years old. While I was rearranging tools today I realized just how badly worn the drawer slides
are now. The drawers only pull out straight if I grab them dead
center... The slightest bit off and the drawers torque in the opening
and I have to exert some side pressure to get them to straighten out.
It's one of those things that imperceptibly deteriorated over time, that
I unconsciously compensated for, and that wasn't noticed until I had a
new rolling cabinet. Oh well... that top chest is taking on a new role where is doesn't get used as often and it will continue to be useful.
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:17:55 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:52 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message news:qhm71hh0fg59nj51r29mpaflmrhk9000j9@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. II bought a couple of the tool cart style (five drawer) for $179. It's >>>> certainly good and worth every penny of $179. The rest of my cabinets
noticed one
at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears
and other
big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said >>>>> early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
are from Sam's Club, the Classics Sevelle series. The drawers are
chin cy but everything else is very nice. The workbenches, in
particular are nice. Really heavy with a 1-1/2" maple top, They're >>>> excellent bargains at $240.
My son and I took a ride to HF last evening to look at the rolling tool
cabinets as they had a holiday sale underway that ended yesterday. Since >>> the store was about a half hour away on the highway I called them
earlier in the day to check their holiday hours. I mentioned where I was >>> coming from and what I was looking for. The guy that answered the phone
couldn't have been more helpful. He not only checked the stock on the
computer but he put his hands on them in the store room to make sure
they were there.
When we got to the store I was actually surprised by the rolling tool
cabinets. The drawers worked smoothly, the case was solid, the overall
fit and finish was quite good, the drawers all had non-slip liners, and
with the sale the price was very competitive. We ended up driving out of >>> there with two of them! One for my son and one for me... Would they
hold up for decades under heavy use in a commercial automotive shop...
probably not. In our shops they stand a good chance of lasting
indefinitely and are light years ahead of the Craftsman rolling tool
cabinets I looked at (that had terrible reviews on-line and clunky
drawer slides). I think these will work out just fine.
My son had never been in a HF so he walked around. After working in my
shop and with my tools he could tell a lot of the stuff was not up to
snuff. He stopped at the screwdriver display and examined them. There
was a set of 12 that sells for $8. He knew I just replaced all my screw
drivers and had examined them. Some of the old ones were 40+ year old
Craftsman and other brands that had disappeared from the market. Most
were good tools but the years of use caught up with them. My new Klein >>> screwdrivers cost $7-$20 each... the HF screwdrivers averaged to about
70¢ each. My son could tell they weren't in the same league as the
Klein. I was glad to see he paid attention to what I'd been telling him >>> over the years. ;~)
The pro tool boxes only need to be strong when being loaded into the
back of a truck and moved to a new employer. I have seen plenty of
Craftsman tool boxes hold up for decades in a mechanical shop.
I bought my wife one of the small roll around HF boxes for her quilting
studio.
I bought a couple of these when they first came out.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-storage-organization/tool-storage/tool-carts/30-in-5-drawer-mechanics-cart-red-64061.html>
That said I will say that the quality of the ICON/Ikon brand tool boxes
seem to be very Impressive.
For $2000 or $3000, it's not too surprising that they're OK.
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too >>>>> with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1,
A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a
build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to
match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body.
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome could
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
The inner circle was the split *mumble* focus and the ring around it
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
The Canon micro-prism TTL focus and meter linked to the F-Stop were
great. Friends preferred Nikon's split focus but it didn't work for
me for some reason. Stop-down metering was a drag too.
Yes, my TX had the 2 circles a split bulls eye and the prism circle
around that. You could not miss focusing with that. I have to say that
I don't recall what the view finder focus looked like on the AE1 and A1.
was a microprism focus. The meter measured the light in the focusing
circle so it could be used as a spot meter.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have >>>> not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of >>>> frames per second is pretty cool.
I switched to Olympus but it was short lived. I carry my phone
everywhere. A camera is a PITA to lug around. If I could marry the
FD series lenses to a DSLR, it would change things. I'd be lugging
20lbs of lenses around. ;-)
LOL. Damn phones make every one look good with out knowing the
mechanics. I don't miss the Domke back pack though.
Everyone good or perhaps everyone equally bad. ;-) The camera in
phones is better than can possibly be used.
I have to be on a mission to carry the DSLR.
I doubt my Olympus even works. I'm sure the batteries (NiCd) don't.
On 2/22/2022 9:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >>>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too >>>>>> with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1, >>>>> A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a
build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to
match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body.
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
No, actually the AE1 only had the shutter priority, When the A1 came out
with both shutter and aperture priority I traded up.
The AE1 Program model still had Shutter priority but added AE with the
camere in control of both the shutter and aperture, the user only
focused and pushed the shutter button.
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome could
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints. >>
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
I developed a lot of Extcharome. I only needed to be in a dark room
when loading the film into a light safe container. From there the
kitchen sink was my lab. ;~)
On 2/22/2022 7:59 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:17:55 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:52 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message news:qhm71hh0fg59nj51r29mpaflmrhk9000j9@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. II bought a couple of the tool cart style (five drawer) for $179. It's >>>>> certainly good and worth every penny of $179. The rest of my cabinets >>>>> are from Sam's Club, the Classics Sevelle series. The drawers are
noticed one
at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears >>>>>> and other
big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said >>>>>> early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
chin cy but everything else is very nice. The workbenches, in
particular are nice. Really heavy with a 1-1/2" maple top, They're >>>>> excellent bargains at $240.
My son and I took a ride to HF last evening to look at the rolling tool >>>> cabinets as they had a holiday sale underway that ended yesterday. Since >>>> the store was about a half hour away on the highway I called them
earlier in the day to check their holiday hours. I mentioned where I was >>>> coming from and what I was looking for. The guy that answered the phone >>>> couldn't have been more helpful. He not only checked the stock on the
computer but he put his hands on them in the store room to make sure
they were there.
When we got to the store I was actually surprised by the rolling tool
cabinets. The drawers worked smoothly, the case was solid, the overall >>>> fit and finish was quite good, the drawers all had non-slip liners, and >>>> with the sale the price was very competitive. We ended up driving out of >>>> there with two of them! One for my son and one for me... Would they
hold up for decades under heavy use in a commercial automotive shop... >>>> probably not. In our shops they stand a good chance of lasting
indefinitely and are light years ahead of the Craftsman rolling tool
cabinets I looked at (that had terrible reviews on-line and clunky
drawer slides). I think these will work out just fine.
My son had never been in a HF so he walked around. After working in my >>>> shop and with my tools he could tell a lot of the stuff was not up to
snuff. He stopped at the screwdriver display and examined them. There
was a set of 12 that sells for $8. He knew I just replaced all my screw >>>> drivers and had examined them. Some of the old ones were 40+ year old
Craftsman and other brands that had disappeared from the market. Most
were good tools but the years of use caught up with them. My new Klein >>>> screwdrivers cost $7-$20 each... the HF screwdrivers averaged to about >>>> 70¢ each. My son could tell they weren't in the same league as the
Klein. I was glad to see he paid attention to what I'd been telling him >>>> over the years. ;~)
The pro tool boxes only need to be strong when being loaded into the
back of a truck and moved to a new employer. I have seen plenty of
Craftsman tool boxes hold up for decades in a mechanical shop.
I bought my wife one of the small roll around HF boxes for her quilting
studio.
I bought a couple of these when they first came out.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-storage-organization/tool-storage/tool-carts/30-in-5-drawer-mechanics-cart-red-64061.html>
That said I will say that the quality of the ICON/Ikon brand tool boxes
seem to be very Impressive.
For $2000 or $3000, it's not too surprising that they're OK.
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
On 2/22/2022 9:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1, >>>> A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a
build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to
match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body.
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1No, actually the AE1 only had the shutter priority, When the A1 came out
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
with both shutter and aperture priority I traded up.
The AE1 Program model still had Shutter priority but added AE with the
camere in control of both the shutter and aperture, the user only
focused and pushed the shutter button.
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome couldI developed a lot of Extcharome. I only needed to be in a dark room
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
when loading the film into a light safe container. From there the
kitchen sink was my lab. ;~)
The inner circle was the split *mumble* focus and the ring around it
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
The Canon micro-prism TTL focus and meter linked to the F-Stop were
great. Friends preferred Nikon's split focus but it didn't work for
me for some reason. Stop-down metering was a drag too.
Yes, my TX had the 2 circles a split bulls eye and the prism circle
around that. You could not miss focusing with that. I have to say that
I don't recall what the view finder focus looked like on the AE1 and A1. >>
was a microprism focus. The meter measured the light in the focusing
circle so it could be used as a spot meter.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens >>>> digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have >>>> not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of >>>> frames per second is pretty cool.
I switched to Olympus but it was short lived. I carry my phone
everywhere. A camera is a PITA to lug around. If I could marry the
FD series lenses to a DSLR, it would change things. I'd be lugging
20lbs of lenses around. ;-)
LOL. Damn phones make every one look good with out knowing the
mechanics. I don't miss the Domke back pack though.
Everyone good or perhaps everyone equally bad. ;-) The camera in
phones is better than can possibly be used.
I have to be on a mission to carry the DSLR.
I doubt my Olympus even works. I'm sure the batteries (NiCd) don't.
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/22/2022 7:59 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:17:55 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:52 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message news:qhm71hh0fg59nj51r29mpaflmrhk9000j9@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<nospam.grossboj@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
My son is looking for a modestly priced rolling tool chest. II bought a couple of the tool cart style (five drawer) for $179. It's >>>>>> certainly good and worth every penny of $179. The rest of my cabinets >>>>>> are from Sam's Club, the Classics Sevelle series. The drawers are >>>>>> chin cy but everything else is very nice. The workbenches, in
noticed one
at HF that has much better customer feed back than ones from Sears >>>>>>> and other
big box stores and the price is very competitive. As someone else said
early on in this thread... be selective when shopping at HF!
particular are nice. Really heavy with a 1-1/2" maple top, They're >>>>>> excellent bargains at $240.
My son and I took a ride to HF last evening to look at the rolling tool >>>>> cabinets as they had a holiday sale underway that ended yesterday. Since >>>>> the store was about a half hour away on the highway I called them
earlier in the day to check their holiday hours. I mentioned where I was >>>>> coming from and what I was looking for. The guy that answered the phone >>>>> couldn't have been more helpful. He not only checked the stock on the >>>>> computer but he put his hands on them in the store room to make sure >>>>> they were there.
When we got to the store I was actually surprised by the rolling tool >>>>> cabinets. The drawers worked smoothly, the case was solid, the overall >>>>> fit and finish was quite good, the drawers all had non-slip liners, and >>>>> with the sale the price was very competitive. We ended up driving out of >>>>> there with two of them! One for my son and one for me... Would they >>>>> hold up for decades under heavy use in a commercial automotive shop... >>>>> probably not. In our shops they stand a good chance of lasting
indefinitely and are light years ahead of the Craftsman rolling tool >>>>> cabinets I looked at (that had terrible reviews on-line and clunky
drawer slides). I think these will work out just fine.
My son had never been in a HF so he walked around. After working in my >>>>> shop and with my tools he could tell a lot of the stuff was not up to >>>>> snuff. He stopped at the screwdriver display and examined them. There >>>>> was a set of 12 that sells for $8. He knew I just replaced all my screw >>>>> drivers and had examined them. Some of the old ones were 40+ year old >>>>> Craftsman and other brands that had disappeared from the market. Most >>>>> were good tools but the years of use caught up with them. My new Klein >>>>> screwdrivers cost $7-$20 each... the HF screwdrivers averaged to about >>>>> 70¢ each. My son could tell they weren't in the same league as the
Klein. I was glad to see he paid attention to what I'd been telling him >>>>> over the years. ;~)
The pro tool boxes only need to be strong when being loaded into the
back of a truck and moved to a new employer. I have seen plenty of
Craftsman tool boxes hold up for decades in a mechanical shop.
I bought my wife one of the small roll around HF boxes for her quilting >>>> studio.
I bought a couple of these when they first came out.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-storage-organization/tool-storage/tool-carts/30-in-5-drawer-mechanics-cart-red-64061.html>
That said I will say that the quality of the ICON/Ikon brand tool boxes >>>> seem to be very Impressive.
For $2000 or $3000, it's not too surprising that they're OK.
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was
cheaper.
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:33:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/22/2022 9:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>>>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >>>>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use >>>>> the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1, >>>>>> A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a >>>> build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to
match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body. >>>>
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
No, actually the AE1 only had the shutter priority, When the A1 came out
with both shutter and aperture priority I traded up.
The AE1 Program model still had Shutter priority but added AE with the
camere in control of both the shutter and aperture, the user only
focused and pushed the shutter button.
There is a lot to forget in fifty years. I didn't have an AE1 or A2
(or F1, for that matter). As a poor college student, the FTb was a
mighty stretch.
I used the stainless reels and bottom of those containers but using
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome couldI dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got >>>>> some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA. >>>>
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints. >>>
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
I developed a lot of Extcharome. I only needed to be in a dark room
when loading the film into a light safe container. From there the
kitchen sink was my lab. ;~)
the light-safe feature was more than iffy. It took too long to get
the developer and fixer in and out of the cap and it messed up the
timing (didn't use the lids for B&W, either). I used a darkroom with
even the outside lights turned off. It takes a mighty dark room to
develop color film.
On 2/23/2022 1:41 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:33:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/22/2022 9:09 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also. >>>>>>>>>
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >>>>>>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >>>>>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much
trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good >>>>>> work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use >>>>>> the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1, >>>>>>> A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses >>>>>> that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a >>>>> build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my >>>>> all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to >>>>> match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body. >>>>>
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
No, actually the AE1 only had the shutter priority, When the A1 came out >>> with both shutter and aperture priority I traded up.
The AE1 Program model still had Shutter priority but added AE with the
camere in control of both the shutter and aperture, the user only
focused and pushed the shutter button.
There is a lot to forget in fifty years. I didn't have an AE1 or A2
(or F1, for that matter). As a poor college student, the FTb was a
mighty stretch.
I used the stainless reels and bottom of those containers but using
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got >>>>>> some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA. >>>>>
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome could
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
I developed a lot of Extcharome. I only needed to be in a dark room
when loading the film into a light safe container. From there the
kitchen sink was my lab. ;~)
the light-safe feature was more than iffy. It took too long to get
the developer and fixer in and out of the cap and it messed up the
timing (didn't use the lids for B&W, either). I used a darkroom with
even the outside lights turned off. It takes a mighty dark room to
develop color film.
My reels and containers were both plastic. I had no problems with
quickly changing out the chemicals. IIRC there were a few more
exchanges of chemicals than 2. Seems like there was a wash in there a
time or two.
I for a short period used the Ektaflex color print contraption,
developing prints in our spare bedroom. A REEEEL PIA.
On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:33:54 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/22/2022 9:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>No, actually the AE1 only had the shutter priority, When the A1 came out
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong >> >>>>>> and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >> >>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >> >>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1, >> >>>> A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a
build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to
match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body.
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
with both shutter and aperture priority I traded up.
The AE1 Program model still had Shutter priority but added AE with the
camere in control of both the shutter and aperture, the user only
focused and pushed the shutter button.
I developed a lot of Extcharome. I only needed to be in a dark room
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA. >> >>
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome could
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
when loading the film into a light safe container. From there the
kitchen sink was my lab. ;~)
The inner circle was the split *mumble* focus and the ring around it
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
The Canon micro-prism TTL focus and meter linked to the F-Stop were
great. Friends preferred Nikon's split focus but it didn't work for
me for some reason. Stop-down metering was a drag too.
Yes, my TX had the 2 circles a split bulls eye and the prism circle
around that. You could not miss focusing with that. I have to say that
I don't recall what the view finder focus looked like on the AE1 and A1. >> >>
was a microprism focus. The meter measured the light in the focusing
circle so it could be used as a spot meter.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens
digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have >> >>>> not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of >> >>>> frames per second is pretty cool.
I switched to Olympus but it was short lived. I carry my phone
everywhere. A camera is a PITA to lug around. If I could marry the
FD series lenses to a DSLR, it would change things. I'd be lugging
20lbs of lenses around. ;-)
LOL. Damn phones make every one look good with out knowing the
mechanics. I don't miss the Domke back pack though.
Everyone good or perhaps everyone equally bad. ;-) The camera in
phones is better than can possibly be used.
I have to be on a mission to carry the DSLR.
I doubt my Olympus even works. I'm sure the batteries (NiCd) don't.
Kodak (of course) had dark rooms available for employee use. I played around >a bit but never really got into it.
The dark rooms were in the same "rec" building that housed the 2000 seat >theatre, the bowling alleys and the swimming pool that was never filled. The >pool was built on the 6th floor. Just before it was to be filled, the engineers
concluded that the building couldn't handle the weight of the water, so it was >abandoned - sort of. They eventually used the pool/space to dry sections of >the 18' x 60' Coloramas that were showcased in Grand Central station.
I grew up in NYC and I remember the announcements each time a new Colorama >was installed. Even went to a few unveilings. Eventually, I ended working for the
company that made them.
https://medium.com/@Kodak/larger-than-life-kodaks-iconic-colorama-eecc5ba0193f
SWMBO and I still catch a couple of shows a year at the theatre, now named Kodak
Center. We just saw The Fab Four there earlier this month. If you like the Beatles, and
these guys come to your town, you should go. They put on a really good show.
https://www.jambase.com/band/the-fab-four
The theatre is also the place where we'd go for the big division-wide meetings during
the time when they were announcing their annual "restructuring plans" aka layoffs.
From "See ya...Bye" to "Hello Hello".
Did you see what I did there? ;-)
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:35:12 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:33:54 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/22/2022 9:09 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:35:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>No, actually the AE1 only had the shutter priority, When the A1 came out >> with both shutter and aperture priority I traded up.
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:Yes, the FTb had the same open-lens TTL metering as the F1. There was
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 12:43:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/21/2022 12:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/21/2022 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:
Kodak had a little bit of a problem seeing the future also.
Still pretty strong. Prints of digital files are still pretty strong
and there are plenty of stores offering this service.
When digital first started I had no interest. Quality sucked. Can't >> >>>>> compete with my Olympus OM-2. Then one day, they got better.
No way would I go back to film now and my printer makes great copies too
with the right paper.
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much
trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
I switched from Canon SLR's several years ago, I had a Canon TX, AE1, >> >>>> A1, 650, and a 630.
I had a chrome (cheaper) Canon FTb in college. I worked at the
newspaper as a photographer. They had a decent selection of lenses
that I could use.
I remember the FTb, did it have a built in light meter? The TX had a
build in light meter buy was strictly manual past that. Then with my
all time favorite, the AE1 with the auto aperture exposure setting to >> >> match the shutter speed. And that one was all black on a brass? body. >> >>
a pin on the FD lenses that told the camera the maximum F-number of
the lens. The previous generation, the TL, IIRC, used the FL lenses
that didn't have the pin so was stop-down metering only. The FTb and
F1 could also use the stop-down mode to see the depth of field.
The A1 and AE1 were a generation after the FTb and F1. The A1 and AE1
both shutter speed and aperture priority auto-exposure modes.
The AE1 Program model still had Shutter priority but added AE with the
camere in control of both the shutter and aperture, the user only
focused and pushed the shutter button.
I developed a lot of Extcharome. I only needed to be in a dark room
I believe all of Canon's SLRs had TTL metering.
I dabbled in processing slide film. I only liked to use slide film
Fifteen years ago ebay had a bunch of *really* expensive Canon
breech-lock lenses for sale for a penny or two on the dollar. I got
some really fast telephotos and a couple of black FTbs but never
really used them. Film and developing had already gotten to be a PITA. >> >>
until my wife decided that I needed to shoot negative film and get prints.
Kodachrome couldn't be processed outside the lab but Ectachrome could
be done at home but it was a bit tricky.
when loading the film into a light safe container. From there the
kitchen sink was my lab. ;~)
The inner circle was the split *mumble* focus and the ring around it
I really liked the lenses before auto-focus.
The Canon micro-prism TTL focus and meter linked to the F-Stop were
great. Friends preferred Nikon's split focus but it didn't work for
me for some reason. Stop-down metering was a drag too.
Yes, my TX had the 2 circles a split bulls eye and the prism circle
around that. You could not miss focusing with that. I have to say that >> >> I don't recall what the view finder focus looked like on the AE1 and A1.
was a microprism focus. The meter measured the light in the focusing
circle so it could be used as a spot meter.
For what ever reason I went to a couple of Fuji upper end fixed lens >> >>>> digital and got great results for a digital camera.
A few years back I decided to switch to a Nikon D500. With covid I have
not had much od a chance of using it.
BUT the auto-focus, lock on, and track a moving object, and a bunch of
frames per second is pretty cool.
I switched to Olympus but it was short lived. I carry my phone
everywhere. A camera is a PITA to lug around. If I could marry the
FD series lenses to a DSLR, it would change things. I'd be lugging
20lbs of lenses around. ;-)
LOL. Damn phones make every one look good with out knowing the
mechanics. I don't miss the Domke back pack though.
Everyone good or perhaps everyone equally bad. ;-) The camera in
phones is better than can possibly be used.
I have to be on a mission to carry the DSLR.
I doubt my Olympus even works. I'm sure the batteries (NiCd) don't.
Kodak (of course) had dark rooms available for employee use. I played around >a bit but never really got into it.The payment for being a photographer on the student paper was use of
their darkroom after hours. We also got to cover concerts and sporting events, so really good, some not so.
The dark rooms were in the same "rec" building that housed the 2000 seat >theatre, the bowling alleys and the swimming pool that was never filled. The >pool was built on the 6th floor. Just before it was to be filled, the engineersI hope the architect and engineer got paid what they were worth.
concluded that the building couldn't handle the weight of the water, so it was
abandoned - sort of. They eventually used the pool/space to dry sections of >the 18' x 60' Coloramas that were showcased in Grand Central station.
What sort of camera was used for those? 8x10 Land Cameras?
I grew up in NYC and I remember the announcements each time a new Colorama >was installed. Even went to a few unveilings. Eventually, I ended working for the
company that made them.
https://medium.com/@Kodak/larger-than-life-kodaks-iconic-colorama-eecc5ba0193f
SWMBO and I still catch a couple of shows a year at the theatre, now named Kodak
Center. We just saw The Fab Four there earlier this month. If you like the Beatles, and
these guys come to your town, you should go. They put on a really good show.
https://www.jambase.com/band/the-fab-four
The theatre is also the place where we'd go for the big division-wide meetings duringThey just came by and gave us the letters.
the time when they were announcing their annual "restructuring plans" aka layoffs.
From "See ya...Bye" to "Hello Hello".
In a year we went from
36,000 employees to 12,000 in the three Mid-Hudson sites. The big day
became known as "Passover" and you could watch people, one by one,
leave the building. If you made it to 5:00, you won the prize.
Our department was spared because several large banks told the execs
that if they got rid of the product we were working on they'd rip out
all of their IBM equipment and put in Amdahls. We were a money loser otherwise. I had a transfer to the Burlington VT lab in hand so I
knew I was safe beforehand.
I got mine 15 years later. I was the only one to thank my manager.
;-)
Did you see what I did there? ;-)
On 2/23/2022 1:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was
cheaper.
Close enough! LOL. I swear some of the mechanics put a year or two salary >into their tools and boxes. But hey! The candy man delivers right to your >shop!
"Leon"Â wrote in message news:v7WdnZODF8g3CYv_nZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On 2/23/2022 1:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was
cheaper.
Close enough! LOL. I swear some of the mechanics put a year or two
salary into their tools and boxes. But hey! The candy man delivers
right to your shop!
When I was a kid I worked as a clerk in the sales office of a Ford dealership. I witnessed first hand how work was divvied out to the
mechanics (as they were called back then). One example was an older guy named George who had what the owner described as "knuckle buster" tools.
His bay was in a back corner and he was given a lot of crap, time
consuming jobs on older vehicles, where it was difficult to make book
time due to corrosion, broken bolts, and waiting on parts. The guys who bought stuff from the candy man had bays up front where access in and
out of the shop was easy and they regularly got gravy jobs on newer
vehicles. The investment in the big name stuff came back to those guys
pretty quickly in the scheme of things...
On 2/24/2022 12:30 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
news:v7WdnZODF8g3CYv_nZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On 2/23/2022 1:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was
cheaper.
Close enough! LOL. I swear some of the mechanics put a year or two
salary into their tools and boxes. But hey! The candy man delivers
right to your shop!
When I was a kid I worked as a clerk in the sales office of a Ford
dealership. I witnessed first hand how work was divvied out to the
mechanics (as they were called back then). One example was an older guy
named George who had what the owner described as "knuckle buster" tools.
His bay was in a back corner and he was given a lot of crap, time
consuming jobs on older vehicles, where it was difficult to make book
time due to corrosion, broken bolts, and waiting on parts. The guys who
bought stuff from the candy man had bays up front where access in and
out of the shop was easy and they regularly got gravy jobs on newer
vehicles. The investment in the big name stuff came back to those guys
pretty quickly in the scheme of things...
When I had real jobs, 1995 and back, I was always in the automotive
industry.
I'll say that many mechanics mostly used Craftsman, S/K Wayne and a few
other tools available from a local store. Snap-On was a fill in for
what they could not find.
Anyway, I am not sure that Snap-On, Mac, Cornwall tools are worth the
added expense of convenience and or perceived quality.
So when I was service sales manager we had about 45~50 technicians and >location in the shop had no bearing on which jobs they got, that was
left up to the dispatch computer.
Some guys made more money with the off brand tools than the guys with
Snap-On and the like tools.
My top mechanic did in fact have the upper end tools but that was
because he could actually afford them. He made about $10K per month and
that was 40 years ago. He actually paid for his tools as the bought
them. I believe all the rest, that bought the upper end stuff, financed >every purchase through the tool dealer.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 14:33:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/24/2022 12:30 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
news:v7WdnZODF8g3CYv_nZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On 2/23/2022 1:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was
cheaper.
Close enough! LOL. I swear some of the mechanics put a year or two
salary into their tools and boxes. But hey! The candy man delivers
right to your shop!
When I was a kid I worked as a clerk in the sales office of a Ford
dealership. I witnessed first hand how work was divvied out to the
mechanics (as they were called back then). One example was an older guy >>> named George who had what the owner described as "knuckle buster" tools. >>> His bay was in a back corner and he was given a lot of crap, time
consuming jobs on older vehicles, where it was difficult to make book
time due to corrosion, broken bolts, and waiting on parts. The guys who
bought stuff from the candy man had bays up front where access in and
out of the shop was easy and they regularly got gravy jobs on newer
vehicles. The investment in the big name stuff came back to those guys
pretty quickly in the scheme of things...
When I had real jobs, 1995 and back, I was always in the automotive >>industry.
I'll say that many mechanics mostly used Craftsman, S/K Wayne and a few >>other tools available from a local store. Snap-On was a fill in for
what they could not find.
Anyway, I am not sure that Snap-On, Mac, Cornwall tools are worth the
added expense of convenience and or perceived quality.
So when I was service sales manager we had about 45~50 technicians and >>location in the shop had no bearing on which jobs they got, that was
left up to the dispatch computer.
Some guys made more money with the off brand tools than the guys with >>Snap-On and the like tools.
My top mechanic did in fact have the upper end tools but that was
because he could actually afford them. He made about $10K per month and >>that was 40 years ago. He actually paid for his tools as the bought
them. I believe all the rest, that bought the upper end stuff, financed >>every purchase through the tool dealer.
Is that right? That seems awfully high for a mechanic at a car dealer
in 1995
Joe Gwinn
On 2/24/2022 3:06 PM, Markem618 wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:57:09 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 14:33:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/24/2022 12:30 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
news:v7WdnZODF8g3CYv_nZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On 2/23/2022 1:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was >>>>>>> cheaper.
Close enough! LOL. I swear some of the mechanics put a year or two >>>>>> salary into their tools and boxes. But hey! The candy man delivers >>>>>> right to your shop!
When I was a kid I worked as a clerk in the sales office of a Ford
dealership. I witnessed first hand how work was divvied out to the
mechanics (as they were called back then). One example was an older guy >>>>> named George who had what the owner described as "knuckle buster" tools. >>>>> His bay was in a back corner and he was given a lot of crap, time
consuming jobs on older vehicles, where it was difficult to make book >>>>> time due to corrosion, broken bolts, and waiting on parts. The guys who >>>>> bought stuff from the candy man had bays up front where access in and >>>>> out of the shop was easy and they regularly got gravy jobs on newer
vehicles. The investment in the big name stuff came back to those guys >>>>> pretty quickly in the scheme of things...
When I had real jobs, 1995 and back, I was always in the automotive
industry.
I'll say that many mechanics mostly used Craftsman, S/K Wayne and a few >>>> other tools available from a local store. Snap-On was a fill in for
what they could not find.
Anyway, I am not sure that Snap-On, Mac, Cornwall tools are worth the
added expense of convenience and or perceived quality.
So when I was service sales manager we had about 45~50 technicians and >>>> location in the shop had no bearing on which jobs they got, that was
left up to the dispatch computer.
Some guys made more money with the off brand tools than the guys with
Snap-On and the like tools.
My top mechanic did in fact have the upper end tools but that was
because he could actually afford them. He made about $10K per month and >>>> that was 40 years ago. He actually paid for his tools as the bought
them. I believe all the rest, that bought the upper end stuff, financed >>>> every purchase through the tool dealer.
Is that right? That seems awfully high for a mechanic at a car dealer
in 1995
Joe Gwinn
A friend worked at a Saab dealer, if he booked 120 hours in a week
that was a slow week. But he also work real hours maybe 80 a week.
Generally he booked the most hours in the shop. Getting paid for
booked hours, versus time at the shop are totally different.
To Joe, not 1995, 1983. I retired in 1995. Yes that was a LOT of
money for a mechanic. His salary was more than the dealer's salary and
I was reminded of that fact each month in our management meetings. Mr. >Menger told me to not let him get away.
Greg, our front end guy, averaged over 150 hours per week flag time. He
was almost a blur. And FWIW those hours were based on warranty book
hours, not Motors or Chiltons book hours.
Eventually we lost Greg but not to a competitor. He build his own new 6
bay shop that he paid cash for.
Markem, Greg was paid mid range in our pay scale, $15.00 per flagged
hour. And the shop was open 55 hours, M~F only.
I am proud to say that I taught Greg how to bust tires, dismount and
mount. I had a service manager for that but I was the resident expert
on tires.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 15:57:09 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 14:33:42 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
On 2/24/2022 12:30 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon"Â wrote in message
news:v7WdnZODF8g3CYv_nZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On 2/23/2022 1:33 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:06:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Have you priced a Snap-On or Mac tool box lately?
No, I thought the money was better spend on a new truck. It was >>>>>> cheaper.
Close enough! LOL. I swear some of the mechanics put a year or two >>>>> salary into their tools and boxes. But hey! The candy man delivers >>>>> right to your shop!
When I was a kid I worked as a clerk in the sales office of a Ford
dealership. I witnessed first hand how work was divvied out to the
mechanics (as they were called back then). One example was an older guy >>>> named George who had what the owner described as "knuckle buster" tools. >>>> His bay was in a back corner and he was given a lot of crap, time
consuming jobs on older vehicles, where it was difficult to make book
time due to corrosion, broken bolts, and waiting on parts. The guys who >>>> bought stuff from the candy man had bays up front where access in and
out of the shop was easy and they regularly got gravy jobs on newer
vehicles. The investment in the big name stuff came back to those guys >>>> pretty quickly in the scheme of things...
When I had real jobs, 1995 and back, I was always in the automotive
industry.
I'll say that many mechanics mostly used Craftsman, S/K Wayne and a few
other tools available from a local store. Snap-On was a fill in for
what they could not find.
Anyway, I am not sure that Snap-On, Mac, Cornwall tools are worth the
added expense of convenience and or perceived quality.
So when I was service sales manager we had about 45~50 technicians and
location in the shop had no bearing on which jobs they got, that was
left up to the dispatch computer.
Some guys made more money with the off brand tools than the guys with
Snap-On and the like tools.
My top mechanic did in fact have the upper end tools but that was
because he could actually afford them. He made about $10K per month and >>> that was 40 years ago. He actually paid for his tools as the bought
them. I believe all the rest, that bought the upper end stuff, financed >>> every purchase through the tool dealer.
Is that right? That seems awfully high for a mechanic at a car dealer
in 1995
Joe Gwinn
A friend worked at a Saab dealer, if he booked 120 hours in a week
that was a slow week. But he also work real hours maybe 80 a week.
Generally he booked the most hours in the shop. Getting paid for
booked hours, versus time at the shop are totally different.
On 2/22/2022 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
The darkroom was more fun than the actual picture taking. Similar to
using a chisel and plane instead of a router.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:27:01 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/22/2022 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
The darkroom was more fun than the actual picture taking. Similar to
using a chisel and plane instead of a router.
Still have an enlarger, contact printer, trays and a pack of real
photo paper B&W. The chemical are long gone but still available.
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:27:01 -0500, Ed Pawlowski<esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 2/22/2022 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/21/2022 5:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
I still prefer slow film over digital for quality. But that is too much >>>>> trouble any more. I used to love working with ASA 25 and 64.
I liked B&W photography. It took a lot of skill to do really good
work. Color is easy. Contrast and texture are hard. I liked to use
the Ilford 25ASA B&W for artsy stuff but also used a lot of Tri-X
pushed to 1600ASA and infrared film for low light.
Yes the B&W photography was an art in itself. I did not have the
patience for that.
The darkroom was more fun than the actual picture taking. Similar to
using a chisel and plane instead of a router.
Still have an enlarger, contact printer, trays and a pack of real
photo paper B&W. The chemical are long gone but still available.
So when I was service sales manager we had about 45~50 technicians and >location in the shop had no bearing on which jobs they got, that was left
up to the dispatch computer.
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