• Clamping Squares and VaryAngle clamping elements

    From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 9 11:07:05 2022
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
    on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp
    for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle
    but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you
    still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why
    the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool
    simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other
    type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these
    type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have
    teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at
    the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things
    in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts
    are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight
    stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the
    pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to Leon on Wed Feb 9 12:29:36 2022
    On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:07:05 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
    on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various >companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping >assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp
    for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle
    but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you
    still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    They're not a replacement for parallel clamps.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    Right, they're used to keep the "squatness" of the panels. ;-) Since
    you use Baltic Birch, you have 9o% of the problem solved. Other less
    fortunate people (ones who have to pay $200+ a sheet) have panels that
    aren't quite flat and have to "entice" the edges to meet. Clamping
    squares help getting it right until the glue dries. Parallel (ish)
    clamps are still needed to keep pressure on the joint. The square just
    keeps them aligned.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why
    the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool
    simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other

    Your first sentence says it all. Not all of us can assume flat.
    Square isn't hard, as long as it's sorta flat. Getting it flat is
    another problem.

    type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these
    type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    But that's not what they're for.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have >teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at
    the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things
    in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts
    are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight
    stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    Exactly

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the >pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?

    I guess if you're building other than square boxes but I don't see it
    either. They look like they're a solution looking for a problem. It
    also looks like you'd have to be an octopus to use them. Then there
    is the problem of getting them set right and holding that wet.

    I don't plan on buying any. They're not even red.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From knuttle@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 9 13:34:41 2022
    T24gMi85LzIwMjIgMTI6MDcgUE0sIExlb24gd3JvdGU6DQo+IFNvIEl0IGlzIHF1aWV0IGhl cmUgYW5kIEkgdGhvdWdodCBJIHdvdWxkIGlucXVpcmUgYWJvdXQgb3RoZXIncyB0aG91Z2h0 cyANCj4gb24gdGhlc2UgdG9vbHMuwqAgSW4gYW5vdGhlciB0aHJlYWQgd2Ugd2VyZSBicmll Zmx5IG1lbnRpb25pbmcgDQo+IFdvb2RwZWNrZXJzIHRvb2xzIGFuZCBJIHRoaW5rIHdlIGFy ZSBzZWVpbmcgYW5vdGhlciB0b29sIGJlaW5nIG9mZmVyZWQgDQo+IHRoYXQgcmFsbHkgc2Vy dmVzIG5vIHB1cnBvc2UuDQpJIGRvIGEgbG90IG9mIHBpY3R1cmUgZnJhbWVzIGFuZCBoYXZl IG1hZGUgc29tZSBib3hlcyB1c2luZyB0aGlzIGNsYW1wJyANCnZlcml0YXMtNC13YXktc3Bl ZWQtY2xhbXANCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGVldmFsbGV5LmNvbS9lbi11cy9zaG9wL3Rvb2xz L2hhbmQtdG9vbHMvY2xhbXBzLzMxMTYyLXZlcml0YXMtNC13YXktc3BlZWQtY2xhbXANCg0K SXQgaXMgdGhlIHF1aWNrZXN0IGFuZCBlYXNpZXN0IGNsYW1wcyBJIGhhdmUgZm91bmQuDQoN ClNpbmNlIGl0IGlzIGJhc2ljYWxseSAgMS80LTIwIHRocmVhZGVkIHJvZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBj b3JuZXIgY2xhbXBzLCB0aGUgDQpzeXN0ZW0gY2FuIGJlIGV4cGFuZGVkIHdpdGggYSB2aXNp dCB0byB0aGUgaGFyZHdhcmUgc3RvcmUuDQoNClNpbWlsYXIgc3lzdGVtcyBhcmVhIGF2YWls YWJsZSBpbiBtYW55IHBsYWNlcw0KDQpJIGhhdmUgdXNlZCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIG9uIHNvbWUg cXVpdGUgbGFyZ2UgZnJhbWVzIHVwIHRvIDQwIiBvbiBhIHNpZGUuIA0KQXMgd2l0aCBhbnkg ZnJhbWUgaXQgaXMgY3JpdGljYWwgdGhhdCB0aGUgb3Bwb3NpdGUgc2lkZXMgYmUgdGhlIGV4 YWN0IA0KbGVuZ3RoLg0KDQpJIGhhdmUgYWxzbyB1c2VkIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gdG8gbWFrZSBi b3hlcy4gICBJIHVzZSBvbmUgc2V0IG5lYXIgdGhlIA0KYm90dG9tIG9mIHRoZSBzaWRlcyBh bmQgYSBzZWNvbmQgc2V0IG5lYXIgdGhlIHRvcC4NCg0KT25jZSB0aGUgY29ybmVyIGFyZSBs aW5lZCB1cCBleGFjdGx5LCB0aGUgbWl0ZXIgYW5nbGUgZG8gdGhlIHNxdWFyaW5nIHVwIA0K dGhlIHRoZSBmcmFtZS4gSSBhbHdheXMgY2hlY2sgdXNpbmcgYSBzaW1wbGUgc3F1YXJlLg0K DQpJIHdvdWxkIHJlY29tbWVuZCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIHRvIGFueSBvbmUgbWFraW5nIGFueSB0 aGluZyBzaW1pbGFyLg0KDQpJbml0aWFsIGNvc3QgaXMgc2ltaWxhciB0byBvdGhlciBzeXN0 ZW1zLiAoYWJvdXQgJDM1L3NldCkgYW5kIHNpbmNlIGl0IA0KYnJlYWtzIGRvd24gY29tcGxl dGVseSBzdG9yYWdlIGlzIHNpbXBsZS4NCg0K

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net on Wed Feb 9 17:03:27 2022
    On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 13:34:41 -0500, knuttle
    <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
    on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.
    I do a lot of picture frames and have made some boxes using this clamp' >veritas-4-way-speed-clamp

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/31162-veritas-4-way-speed-clamp

    It is the quickest and easiest clamps I have found.

    Since it is basically 1/4-20 threaded rod with the corner clamps, the
    system can be expanded with a visit to the hardware store.

    Do you have to spin the knob to change the size of the clamp or does
    it have a quick release mechanism. Turning the knob seems like a
    RPITA.

    Similar systems area available in many places

    I have used the system on some quite large frames up to 40" on a side.
    As with any frame it is critical that the opposite sides be the exact
    length.

    I have also used the system to make boxes. I use one set near the
    bottom of the sides and a second set near the top.

    Once the corner are lined up exactly, the miter angle do the squaring up
    the the frame. I always check using a simple square.

    I would recommend the system to any one making any thing similar.

    Initial cost is similar to other systems. (about $35/set) and since it
    breaks down completely storage is simple.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to knuttle on Thu Feb 10 11:18:49 2022
    On 2/9/2022 12:34 PM, knuttle wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's
    thoughts on these tools.  In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.
    I do a lot of picture frames and have made some boxes using this clamp' veritas-4-way-speed-clamp

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/31162-veritas-4-way-speed-clamp


    It is the quickest and easiest clamps I have found.

    Since it is basically  1/4-20 threaded rod with the corner clamps, the system can be expanded with a visit to the hardware store.

    Similar systems area available in many places

    I have used the system on some quite large frames up to 40" on a side.
    As with any frame it is critical that the opposite sides be the exact
    length.

    I have also used the system to make boxes.   I use one set near the
    bottom of the sides and a second set near the top.

    Once the corner are lined up exactly, the miter angle do the squaring up
    the the frame. I always check using a simple square.

    I would recommend the system to any one making any thing similar.

    Initial cost is similar to other systems. (about $35/set) and since it
    breaks down completely storage is simple.


    Good to know.

    Something I just now found, A Rockler tool. It seems to fill the bill
    and runs up quite the bill if you get a full set.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Thu Feb 10 11:30:35 2022
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 10 11:29:13 2022
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.

    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    Most of the 1 & 2 star reviews complain that while the casing is aluminum,
    the gear is plastic and breaks under use.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 10 15:29:52 2022
    On 2/10/2022 1:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.

    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    Most of the 1 & 2 star reviews complain that while the casing is aluminum, the gear is plastic and breaks under use.


    I could not argue with that but it works as advertised. It does what
    the vast majority of these type corner clamps don't do, squeeze the
    joint together.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 10 18:06:28 2022
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 10 18:51:58 2022
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 4:30:02 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2022 1:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.

    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    Most of the 1 & 2 star reviews complain that while the casing is aluminum, the gear is plastic and breaks under use.
    I could not argue with that but it works as advertised. It does what
    the vast majority of these type corner clamps don't do, squeeze the
    joint together.

    Until the gear breaks because you are trying to squeeze the joint together. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Thu Feb 10 18:49:39 2022
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    I had the same thought.


    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    I had the same thought.

    The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
    issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
    in the outer corner. My question is this:

    Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
    one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Fri Feb 11 09:05:24 2022
    On 2/10/2022 5:06 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8

    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    Maybe just buy one clamp. LOL


    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.


    Yup!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 09:07:26 2022
    On 2/10/2022 8:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    I had the same thought.


    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    I had the same thought.

    The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
    issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
    in the outer corner. My question is this:

    Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
    one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?



    One brad until the glue dries. Thank you Norm.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Feb 11 13:02:17 2022
    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 10:07:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2022 8:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    I had the same thought.


    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    I had the same thought.

    The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
    in the outer corner. My question is this:

    Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
    one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?


    One brad until the glue dries. Thank you Norm.

    I don't think I've ever seen Norm use *one* brad. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 16:44:07 2022
    On 2/11/2022 3:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 10:07:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/10/2022 8:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    I had the same thought.


    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    I had the same thought.

    The other thing I saw - but I don't build frames, so maybe it's not an
    issue - was that they say (and show) that you have room to put a brad
    in the outer corner. My question is this:

    Without the clamp in the way wouldn't you use more than one brad? Is
    one brad way out on the corner like they show enough?


    One brad until the glue dries. Thank you Norm.

    I don't think I've ever seen Norm use *one* brad. ;-)


    He did not have this clamp.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Fri Feb 11 22:17:06 2022
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Bob Davis on Sat Feb 12 09:41:38 2022
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From knuttle@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 12:41:13 2022
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 12 09:51:41 2022
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
    actually made a perfect miter?

    Go now and ponder.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to knuttle on Sat Feb 12 12:10:40 2022
    On 2/12/2022 11:41 AM, knuttle wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 10:41 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
    wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
    angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to
    fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
    pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
    wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with.
    I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you
    don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.


    Even with the most costly equipment, or computer controlled saw cuts, IF
    the opposite side are not the same length you will get bad miters.

    If you have cut each of the sides to with in 1/32" of each other That difference is going to make a least 1/16" that is going to appear in one
    of the miters.

    When making frame I always cut opposite side together.  I make the sides about a 1/4" proud, fasten them together use staples, I trim each end
    until they are the proper length.




    I tend to batch cut using some kind of stop to insure exact length.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to wrobertdavis@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 13:26:00 2022
    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:17:06 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >> >>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >> >>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >> >>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >> >>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.

    But if the glue joint is stronger than the wood fiber, or linen
    (depending on your political persuasion), then the forced glue joint
    is just fine. Unless you start with perfect wood with perfect grain
    and never exposed to a change in humidity, you're going to have some
    amount if force needed to close some gap or there is some force on the
    joint later. Sooner/later, what's the difference?

    There is nothing in this world that is "perfect" (unless "perfect" is
    defined as that particular widget).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 12:18:32 2022
    On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
    actually made a perfect miter?

    Go now and ponder.

    Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
    perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.

    I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
    fit perfectly to the front piece.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:27:02 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:30:50 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:18:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
    actually made a perfect miter?

    Go now and ponder.

    Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
    perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.

    I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits >against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back >therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
    fit perfectly to the front piece.

    A miter can be used in a straight line, too. The lengths don't have
    to be the same length. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Feb 12 12:32:04 2022
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Feb 12 12:33:50 2022
    On 2/12/2022 12:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:18:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
    actually made a perfect miter?

    Go now and ponder.

    Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
    perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.

    I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits
    against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back
    therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
    fit perfectly to the front piece.

    A miter can be used in a straight line, too. The lengths don't have
    to be the same length. ;-)


    Often used to stretch wood!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:51:49 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:33:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:18:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog. >>>>>>>>>


    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >>>>>>> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
    actually made a perfect miter?

    Go now and ponder.

    Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
    perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.

    I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits >>> against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back
    therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to
    fit perfectly to the front piece.

    A miter can be used in a straight line, too. The lengths don't have
    to be the same length. ;-)


    Often used to stretch wood!

    I was going to use those words but thought someone might object. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 12 12:40:57 2022
    On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
    wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other >>>>>>>> angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to >>>>>>>> fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two >>>>>>>> pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think
    about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
    wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with.
    I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you
    don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with
    it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.


    And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
    and Festool saw the problem.
    The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.

    When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
    corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
    on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
    comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
    to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner.

    And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly
    muding and sanding.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:54:40 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:32:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the >painters to caulk and close the miters.

    Hacks, maybe. But the point is that walls are only square by accident.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.

    Coped unless done by said hack.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:59:27 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:40:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com >>>>> wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other >>>>>>>>> angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to >>>>>>>>> fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two >>>>>>>>> pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think >>>>>>> about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
    wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. >>>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you
    don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with >>>>> it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
    painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.


    And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
    and Festool saw the problem.
    The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.

    When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with >corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
    on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
    comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
    to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner.

    And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly >muding and sanding.

    That may be a lost cause. It works for out of square corners but
    doesn't work so well if they aren't planar, at least towards the
    corner. A bump is going to screw everything up. Festool makes a tool
    for that, too. ;-)

    <https://www.festoolusa.com/products/illuminating/stl-450-inspection-light/201938---stl-450-usa#Overview>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Feb 12 13:36:33 2022
    On 2/12/2022 12:51 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:33:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:30 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:18:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 11:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog. >>>>>>>>>>


    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >>>>>>>> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >>>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Ah Grasshopper...if the sides are not the same length have you
    actually made a perfect miter?

    Go now and ponder.

    Possibly. A perfect fit miter does not require corner joints to be
    perfect if the pieces do not form an enclosure.

    I often build/add mitered moldings around a piece of furniture that fits >>>> against the wall. No back molding. The sides do not mate with a back >>>> therefore they do not have to be precisely the same length for them to >>>> fit perfectly to the front piece.

    A miter can be used in a straight line, too. The lengths don't have
    to be the same length. ;-)


    Often used to stretch wood!

    I was going to use those words but thought someone might object. ;-)

    I said stretch, not stroke. ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markem618@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:34:50 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:32:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the >painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.

    Yes one must cope!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to krw@notreal.com on Sat Feb 12 13:39:40 2022
    On 2/12/2022 12:59 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:40:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com >>>>>> wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other >>>>>>>>>> angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to >>>>>>>>>> fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two >>>>>>>>>> pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog. >>>>>>>>>


    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think >>>>>>>> about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >>>>>>> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using >>>>>> wood filler to cover the gap.  Make the miter perfect to begin with. >>>>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools.  If you >>>>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with >>>>>> it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>>> be precisely the same length.  If the opposite sides are not the same >>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
    painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.


    And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
    and Festool saw the problem.
    The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.

    When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
    corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
    on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
    comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
    to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner. >>
    And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly
    muding and sanding.

    That may be a lost cause. It works for out of square corners but
    doesn't work so well if they aren't planar, at least towards the
    corner. A bump is going to screw everything up. Festool makes a tool
    for that, too. ;-)

    <https://www.festoolusa.com/products/illuminating/stl-450-inspection-light/201938---stl-450-usa#Overview>


    I don't think you will ever see a drywall crew use one of those, they
    depend on their texturing guy to hide their ills.

    I have seen a lamp, like that one, used to show imperfections in sanding
    wood.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 18:26:56 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 13:39:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:59 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:40:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com >>>>>>> wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other >>>>>>>>>>> angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to >>>>>>>>>>> fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two >>>>>>>>>>> pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog. >>>>>>>>>>


    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think >>>>>>>>> about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >>>>>>>> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using >>>>>>> wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. >>>>>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you >>>>>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with >>>>>>> it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >>>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the >>>> painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.


    And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
    and Festool saw the problem.
    The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew. >>>
    When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
    corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting >>> on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
    comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
    to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner. >>>
    And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly >>> muding and sanding.

    That may be a lost cause. It works for out of square corners but
    doesn't work so well if they aren't planar, at least towards the
    corner. A bump is going to screw everything up. Festool makes a tool
    for that, too. ;-)

    <https://www.festoolusa.com/products/illuminating/stl-450-inspection-light/201938---stl-450-usa#Overview>


    I don't think you will ever see a drywall crew use one of those, they
    depend on their texturing guy to hide their ills.

    Someone must be buying them. Maybe contractors working for the DOD?

    I have seen a lamp, like that one, used to show imperfections in sanding >wood.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to Leon on Sat Feb 12 21:34:10 2022
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It's
    a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to Leon on Sun Feb 13 06:49:51 2022
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 12:41:10 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com >>>> wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other >>>>>>>> angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to >>>>>>>> fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two >>>>>>>> pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think >>>>>> about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
    wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. >>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you
    don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with >>>> it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.
    And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
    and Festool saw the problem.
    The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.

    When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
    on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
    comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
    to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner.

    And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly muding and sanding.

    Pssst! Hey buddy, wanta buy some woodpecker steel angle clamps cheap?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net on Sun Feb 13 10:46:22 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:41:13 -0500, knuttle
    <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 10:41 AM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com
    wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
    angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit >>>>>>> the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two
    pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using
    wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I
    have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't
    cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.


    Even with the most costly equipment, or computer controlled saw cuts,
    IF the opposite side are not the same length you will get bad miters.

    If your computer controlled saw can't cut two pieces of wood the same
    length, it's time to fire the computer.

    If you have cut each of the sides to with in 1/32" of each other That >difference is going to make a least 1/16" that is going to appear in one
    of the miters.

    When making frame I always cut opposite side together. I make the sides >about a 1/4" proud, fasten them together use staples, I trim each end
    until they are the proper length.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to wrobertdavis@gmail.com on Sun Feb 13 10:42:28 2022
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >> >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >> >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >> >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >> >>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It's
    a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.

    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Sun Feb 13 10:21:07 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >> >>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >> >>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >> >> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It's
    a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>

    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to Bob Davis on Sun Feb 13 15:19:46 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >> >>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >> >> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >> >> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It'
    s a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While
    looking at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon
    warehouse 5 miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get
    aggressive with the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.

    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to wrober...@gmail.com on Sun Feb 13 18:33:05 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:19:51 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >> >> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >> >> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly.
    It's a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on
    both sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).
    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While looking
    at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon warehouse 5
    miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get aggressive with
    the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.

    Bob

    One of my long time strap clamps popped it's ratchet gear recently,
    so I'll think I'll buy a pair myself. Nice price.

    However, check out this product description bullet point:

    "- This is an aftermarket of generic part"

    I can usually translate the badly formed English used in some of these listings, but this one's way out there. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Bob Davis on Mon Feb 14 09:08:12 2022
    On 2/13/2022 8:49 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 12:41:10 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:27 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 09:41:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com >>>>>> wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other >>>>>>>>>> angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. >>>>>>>>>> These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to >>>>>>>>>> fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two >>>>>>>>>> pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog. >>>>>>>>>


    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think >>>>>>>> about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >>>>>>>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >>>>>>>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >>>>>>> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment >>>>>>> for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >>>>>>> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >>>>>>> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >>>>>>> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using >>>>>> wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. >>>>>> I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you >>>>>> don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect fits everytime with >>>>>> it.


    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >>>>> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >>>>> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Tell that to finish carpenters (think: crown molding).


    I think, actually I know, that finish carpenters actually depend on the
    painters to caulk and close the miters.

    And in many cases there is no miter at all on an inside corner.
    And just to add a bit to finish carpenters work. Most use miter saws
    and Festool saw the problem.
    The finish carpenter is at the mercy of the framer and the dry wall crew.

    When putting down base boards and or shoe moldings he has to deal with
    corners that, 95% of the time, are not square. So the 45 degree setting
    on the saw does not work perfectly. Here is where the painters caulk
    comes into play. The Festook Kapex includes a miter/angle measure tool
    to set the saw up for cuts that will actually fit the angle of the corner. >>
    And not even that is fool proof because of the drywall guys not properly
    muding and sanding.

    Pssst! Hey buddy, wanta buy some woodpecker steel angle clamps cheap?


    ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Bob Davis on Mon Feb 14 09:00:45 2022
    On 2/12/2022 11:34 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or >>>>>>> bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >>>>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all. >>>>>>> Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about >>>>> it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make perfect
    fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It'
    s a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.


    Got'cha! The first time I saw one of those was probably 40 years ago. Absolutely a precision tool. Costly back then, you got a heck of a
    deal. Your wife being an artist I can see the need! Win /win! ;~)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to wrobertdavis@gmail.com on Mon Feb 14 13:02:44 2022
    On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:19:46 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >> > >> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >> > >> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >> > >> >>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >> > >> >> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >> > >> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >> > >> >> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >> > >> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It'
    s a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While
    looking at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon
    warehouse 5 miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get
    aggressive with the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.

    Hmm. I'd tried band clamps before but had always found them more
    problem than they were worth. It seemed that I always needed another
    hand or three to clamp where I wanted. Maybe I'll try them some time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to wrobertdavis@gmail.com on Mon Feb 14 13:06:31 2022
    On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:19:46 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever. >> > >> >>>>> Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would >> > >> >>>>> think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND
    PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have. >> > >> >>>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for
    you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to >> > >> >> the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock >> > >> >> it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is >> > >> >> going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame >> > >> be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same
    length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly. It'
    s a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on both
    sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While
    looking at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon
    warehouse 5 miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get
    aggressive with the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.

    Hmm again. $19.36 for one or $51.60 for two. Maybe I'll buy a
    four-pack. ;-0

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Mon Feb 14 11:18:26 2022
    On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 1:06:37 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:19:46 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> > On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >> > >> >> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >> > >> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >> > >> >> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >> > >> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly.
    It's a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on
    both sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While
    looking at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon
    warehouse 5 miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get
    aggressive with the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.
    Hmm again. $19.36 for one or $51.60 for two. Maybe I'll buy a
    four-pack. ;-0

    Not sure I get the joke.

    My order for a pair came to $41.82 after tax of $3.10. Could having Prime
    be the difference?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to teamarrows@eznet.net on Mon Feb 14 15:36:07 2022
    On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:18:26 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
    <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

    On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 1:06:37 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:19:46 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >> >> > >> >> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >> >> > >> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >> >> > >> >> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >> >> > >> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly.
    It's a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on
    both sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While
    looking at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon
    warehouse 5 miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get
    aggressive with the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.
    Hmm again. $19.36 for one or $51.60 for two. Maybe I'll buy a
    four-pack. ;-0

    Not sure I get the joke.

    Even worse now. $55.07 for two. Better buy soon! <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Bessey+Ban700+Band+Clamp&i=tools&crid=2OAI2GMMLZWX8&sprefix=bessey+ban700+band+clamp%2Ctools%2C1184&ref=nb_sb_noss>

    (I know they're two different listings ;-)

    My order for a pair came to $41.82 after tax of $3.10. Could having Prime
    be the difference?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Davis@21:1/5 to k...@notreal.com on Mon Feb 14 15:29:03 2022
    On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:02:50 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:19:46 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:42:37 AM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote: >> > On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:34:10 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
    <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 12:17 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
    On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:06:35 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
    On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 11:30:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> >> > >> >> wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 11:29 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

    Snip

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I laughed too. I thought I was looking at a Rockler catalog.



    Well speaking of Rockler. I just now saw this. You have to think about
    it a bit to understand how this actually works as described. AND >> > >> >>> PRICEY! But if making a lot of frames a set might be good to have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXf4W3mFfb8
    Expensive? It's only $100. Four for $400. Such a deal I have for >> > >> >> you!

    The two things that got me was bragging about the 1-degree adjustment
    for miters that "weren't perfect". OK, what happens when you get to
    the opposite corner?

    The other thing was the tear-out on the cuts. They didn't even knock
    it off with a swipe of sandpaper, though on a dark frame nothing is
    going to fix it.

    Using a clamp to correct imperfect miter is about as good as using wood filler to cover the gap. Make the miter perfect to begin with. I have one of those ancient cast iron miter slicing tools. If you don't cut off your fingers, you can make
    perfect fits everytime with it.
    While it is important to make miter cuts dead on for a tight fit,
    equally important is that the lengths of the opposite sides of a frame
    be precisely the same length. If the opposite sides are not the same >> > >> length a perfect miter will not close properly.

    Opposite side equal length requirement is well known. My comment about the perfect miter meant making a cut 45.0 degrees with clean, sharp edges. The miter slicer does that, leaving faces that require no cleanup or other touches before assembly.
    It's a tool that virtually no one would have unless they run a framing business. I bought it for $25 on ebay and had the blades professionally sharpened. I was making wet canvass carriers for my wife, which are like tiny picture frames with insets on
    both sides.
    You mean like this (even Rockler sells them ;-).

    <https://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer>
    Yes, that is what it looks like. That's the made overseas copy. Mine is the original Made-in-USA version (has not been made here for years).

    All this talk about clamping miters got me to thinking and wanting to try other approaches suggested here. I almost ordered the Lee valley frame clamp as described here. I wanted it quicker than Lee Valley can deliver, so searched Amazon. While
    looking at all the choices there, the Bessey strap clamp caught my eye. Hmmm. marked down to under $20. What the heck. I ordered two so I could get same day free shipping. They were on my door step 4 hours later (Oh the advantages of having an Amazon
    warehouse 5 miles away). This afternoon, I put one of them to task. Hey, this thing actually works really, really well! -- better than any strap clamp I have ever tried, and it was easy to set up. I believe I could break my frame, if I wanted to get
    aggressive with the tensioning handle. I think it did a good job of pulling the joints closed. When I checked square, it was dead on.

    Comments and critiques welsome.
    Hmm. I'd tried band clamps before but had always found them more
    problem than they were worth. It seemed that I always needed another
    hand or three to clamp where I wanted. Maybe I'll try them some time.

    I hear that. I have a rockler band clamp that I have used on occasion for years. It's always been a tedious affair to set it up and then I had to hold my breath while I tightened the ratchet, hoping nothing would slide out of place. The excess webbing
    had to be carefully positioned out of the way while doing this. The bessey addresses most of the issues I have had previously. The slack in the webbing is neatly wound up on a hand cranked reel. The corner positioning pieces clip to the webbing
    securely so you don't have to use extra hands to keep them in place. Finally, the tensioning mechanism pulls webbing from both sides, so your corner clips do not get dragged to one side by the single sided ratchet as used by many band clamps. The net
    result is that setup time was very short and not fussy. The clamp worked very well to distribute tension to all the corners.

    My rockler band clamp is headed for the trash can.

    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 17 09:12:07 2022
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
    on these tools.  In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various companies.  And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp
    for mating parts.  I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle
    but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly.  So, you
    still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint.  On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning.  Why
    the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp?  This tool
    simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together.  These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other
    type clamp.  And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together.  One style is aimed at picture frames and they have teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at
    the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things
    in alignment for certain conditions.  But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight.  AND most 90 degree cuts
    are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight
    stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.  These clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw.  If not, you have introduced a problem.  I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together.  And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should work: https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.

    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Jack on Thu Feb 17 08:24:43 2022
    On 2/17/2022 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's
    thoughts on these tools.  In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by
    various companies.  And I have never felt that they actually helped in
    clamping assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional
    clamp for mating parts.  I see that they do hold the parts at a
    specific angle but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint
    tightly.  So, you still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight
    one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint.  On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning.
    Why the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp?  This
    tool simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together.  These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any
    other type clamp.  And with that in mind, I can tell you that only
    using these type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not
    properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together.  One style is aimed at picture frames and they
    have teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together
    tightly at the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold
    things in alignment for certain conditions.  But they bring nothing to
    the table to make the closure of the joint tight.  AND most 90 degree
    cuts are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold
    straight stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other
    angles. And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a
    PIA.  These clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking
    lever. Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge
    and or bevel on your saw.  If not, you have introduced a problem.  I
    would think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to
    fit the way your work goes together.  And then why bother using them
    at all. Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold
    two pieces of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting
    the pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    Exactly




     I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should work: https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.


    Yeah those should work, there are also some versions that you can buy. Unfortunately you need a boat load of small clamps, 12 for a single 4
    sided clue up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Jack on Thu Feb 17 08:34:29 2022
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:12:16 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts
    on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp
    for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why
    the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at
    the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things
    in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts
    are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should work: https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.


    I don't think that jig will work.

    It looks like the G-clamps are two different colors. If it's just
    the lighting, then you should be good to go.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DerbyDad03@21:1/5 to Leon on Thu Feb 17 10:04:36 2022
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 12:50:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/17/2022 10:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:12:16 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts >>> on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered >>> that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various >>> companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping >>> assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp >>> for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle >>> but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you
    still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why >>> the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool
    simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other >>> type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these >>> type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have >>> teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at >>> the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things >>> in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts
    are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight >>> stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>> of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the >>> pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should work: >> https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.


    I don't think that jig will work.

    It looks like the G-clamps are two different colors. If it's just
    the lighting, then you should be good to go.
    I just noticed the "G" designation. I have never known those clamps to
    be anything other then "C" clamps.

    When fully open, it's a C-clamp. Once you turn the screw up a little ways,
    it becomes a G-clamp. ;-)

    Even Wikipedia doesn't know what to call it. Maybe the C comes from the
    shape of the body or maybe the C comes from the original name: Carriage
    Clamp or maybe Wikipedia is wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-clamp#cite_note-G-clamp-1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 17 11:50:11 2022
    On 2/17/2022 10:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:12:16 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts >>> on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered
    that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various >>> companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping
    assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp
    for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle >>> but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you
    still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why
    the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool
    simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other
    type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these >>> type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have >>> teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at
    the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things >>> in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts
    are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight
    stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles.
    And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These
    clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the
    way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces
    of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the
    pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should work:
    https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.


    I don't think that jig will work.

    It looks like the G-clamps are two different colors. If it's just
    the lighting, then you should be good to go.


    I just noticed the "G" designation. I have never known those clamps to
    be anything other then "C" clamps.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 17 13:58:58 2022
    On 2/17/2022 12:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 12:50:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
    On 2/17/2022 10:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:12:16 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's thoughts >>>>> on these tools. In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered >>>>> that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by various >>>>> companies. And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping >>>>> assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp >>>>> for mating parts. I see that they do hold the parts at a specific angle >>>>> but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly. So, you >>>>> still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint. On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning. Why >>>>> the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp? This tool >>>>> simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together. These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other >>>>> type clamp. And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using these >>>>> type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed. >>>>>
    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull >>>>> the joints together. One style is aimed at picture frames and they have >>>>> teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at >>>>> the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold things >>>>> in alignment for certain conditions. But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight. AND most 90 degree cuts >>>>> are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight >>>>> stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA. These >>>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw. If not, you have introduced a problem. I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>>> way your work goes together. And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the >>>>> pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should work: >>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.


    I don't think that jig will work.

    It looks like the G-clamps are two different colors. If it's just
    the lighting, then you should be good to go.
    I just noticed the "G" designation. I have never known those clamps to
    be anything other then "C" clamps.

    When fully open, it's a C-clamp. Once you turn the screw up a little ways,
    it becomes a G-clamp. ;-)

    Even Wikipedia doesn't know what to call it. Maybe the C comes from the
    shape of the body or maybe the C comes from the original name: Carriage
    Clamp or maybe Wikipedia is wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-clamp#cite_note-G-clamp-1


    Almost any bar clamp, except fixed screw end clamps can look like a "G"
    if the screw is extended.
    I think it is the appearance with out the screw extended.

    F body can look like K body and visa versa.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jack@21:1/5 to Leon on Fri Feb 18 11:39:10 2022
    On 2/17/2022 12:50 PM, Leon wrote:
    On 2/17/2022 10:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 9:12:16 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
    On 2/9/2022 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
    So It is quiet here and I thought I would inquire about other's
    thoughts
    on these tools.  In another thread we were briefly mentioning
    Woodpeckers tools and I think we are seeing another tool being offered >>>> that rally serves no purpose.

    There are numerous varieties of corner clamping tools offered by
    various
    companies.  And I have never felt that they actually helped in clamping >>>> assembly.

    My experience has been that they do not eliminate the traditional clamp >>>> for mating parts.  I see that they do hold the parts at a specific
    angle
    but do little to nothing as far as closing the joint tightly.  So, you >>>> still need regular clamps to make that joint a tight one.

    Having said that I have Baltic birch clamping squares that I use to
    check squatness of a joint.  On occasion I use them to hold a joint
    square after I have used my traditional clamps to close the joint.

    If a joint is cut correctly, it is self squaring. and or aligning.  Why >>>> the need for something like the new Woodpeckers VaryClamp?  This tool >>>> simply holds the angle of the parts but does not pull the parts
    together.  These type clamps seldom are shown being used with any other >>>> type clamp.  And with that in mind, I can tell you that only using
    these
    type clamps will result in a weak joint that is not properly closed.

    That said I have seen a couple of corner clamps that do actually pull
    the joints together.  One style is aimed at picture frames and they
    have
    teeth that dig into the mating parts and pulls them together tightly at >>>> the joint.

    For the most part, the right angle clamping squares can help hold
    things
    in alignment for certain conditions.  But they bring nothing to the
    table to make the closure of the joint tight.  AND most 90 degree cuts >>>> are easy to replicate time and again so these type clamps hold straight >>>> stock square while using traditional clamps to close the joint.

    The Woodpeckers VaryAngle clamps are designed to aid with other angles. >>>> And these clamps have me scratching my head thinking what a PIA.  These >>>> clamps have a relatively coarse degree scale and locking lever.
    Hopefully this scale agrees with the one on your miter gauge and or
    bevel on your saw.  If not, you have introduced a problem.  I would
    think never use the degree scale on the clamp and adjust it to fit the >>>> way your work goes together.  And then why bother using them at all.
    Again they do not pull the joint together, they simply hold two pieces >>>> of work at a specific angle.

    I could actually see using this type clamp with metal work, getting the >>>> pieces close and filling the gap with a weld.

    https://www.woodpeck.com/varyangle-clamping-fixture.html

    Thoughts?
    For mitered picture frames I simply pin nailed the joints and let the
    glue dry. Other goofy devices never worked enough to bother with. The
    key is always having a perfectly square joint to start with.

    I did save a picture of this homemade jig that looks like it should
    work:
    https://tinyurl.com/yc3d68dv
    I never used it however.


    I don't think that jig will work.

    It looks like the G-clamps are two different colors. If it's just
    the lighting, then you should be good to go.


    I just noticed the "G" designation.  I have never known those clamps to
    be anything other then "C" clamps.
    I noticed it immediately but figured it was either a typo or he mumbled
    when he submitted it to Alexa for typing...

    --
    Jack
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)