Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
If you haven't returned it, inspect it closely to see if there's a burr on the inside guide (notch thingy, is it?)... or maybe a sharp edge on/along the rule's valley.
I have an older square (don't know the brand at the moment), the rule portion seems to rust easily and often. My newer square is ok.... for now.
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
If you haven't returned it, inspect it closely to see if there's a burr on the inside guide (notch thingy, is it?)... or maybe a sharp edge on/along the rule's valley.
I'm not sure which Lee Valley combo square the OP was referring to,
it looks like LV only sells Starret combination squares.
Sonny <cedar...@aol.com> writes:
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
If you haven't returned it, inspect it closely to see if there's a burr on the inside guide (notch thingy, is it?)... or maybe a sharp edge on/along the rule's valley.
There may be a spring in there which pulls the pawl that engages
the slide against the edge of the guide.
I'm not sure which Lee Valley combo square the OP was referring to,
it looks like LV only sells Starret combination squares.
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but itIf you haven't returned it, inspect it closely to see if there's a burr on the inside guide (notch thingy, is it?)... or maybe a sharp edge on/along the rule's valley.
barely helped.
I have an older square (don't know the brand at the moment), the rule portion seems to rust easily and often. My newer square is ok.... for now.
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last month
I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that
he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally, Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
On 12/21/2021 4:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last month
I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that
he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally,
Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for
myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped thatAs Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward
the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may
still be under tension from the spring.
FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to
push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 10:45:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/21/2021 4:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last monthAs Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule
I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that >> > he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally,
Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and
thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for
myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I >> > ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward
the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may
still be under tension from the spring.
Yes, the nut is spring loaded. Every combination square I've ever had had
a spring loaded nut.
I just tested my Empires against the two from Lee Valley. On the Empires, the >rules slide easily with the slightest loosening of the nut. On the LV units, there
is substantial drag. Pushing up on the nut on all units does make all of them >slide easier, but the relative difference between the Empires and the LV's is still
present. IOW, on the Empires (both the old and new one) there is no need to push
up on the nut to get an easy slide, but a somewhat higher, but not needed, level
of ease can be obtained by pushing up on the nut.
In order to get the LV rules to slide even close to as easy as the Empires, I >have to loosen the nuts to point where the rule is flopping around in the head >*and* then push up on the nut. That is not something I would want to do as a >everyday practice.
FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to
push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.
Could that be due to the indexing feature? How does the indexing feature work? >I assume it somehow locks into the stampings, correct?
Do you have other combo squares that don't require pushing up on the nut?
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 10:45:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/21/2021 4:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last monthAs Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule
I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that >> > he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally,
Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and
thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for
myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I >> > ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward
the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may
still be under tension from the spring.
Yes, the nut is spring loaded. Every combination square I've ever had had
a spring loaded nut.
I just tested my Empires against the two from Lee Valley. On the Empires, the >rules slide easily with the slightest loosening of the nut. On the LV units, there
is substantial drag. Pushing up on the nut on all units does make all of them >slide easier, but the relative difference between the Empires and the LV's is still
present. IOW, on the Empires (both the old and new one) there is no need to push
up on the nut to get an easy slide, but a somewhat higher, but not needed, level
of ease can be obtained by pushing up on the nut.
In order to get the LV rules to slide even close to as easy as the Empires, I >have to loosen the nuts to point where the rule is flopping around in the head >*and* then push up on the nut. That is not something I would want to do as a >everyday practice.
FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to
push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.
Could that be due to the indexing feature? How does the indexing feature work? >I assume it somehow locks into the stampings, correct?
Do you have other combo squares that don't require pushing up on the nut?
On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 09:53:41 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 10:45:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/21/2021 4:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last month >> > I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that >> > he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concreteAs Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally,
Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and >> > thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for
myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I
ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward
the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may
still be under tension from the spring.
Yes, the nut is spring loaded. Every combination square I've ever had had
a spring loaded nut.
I just tested my Empires against the two from Lee Valley. On the Empires, the
rules slide easily with the slightest loosening of the nut. On the LV units, there
is substantial drag. Pushing up on the nut on all units does make all of them
slide easier, but the relative difference between the Empires and the LV's is still
present. IOW, on the Empires (both the old and new one) there is no need to push
up on the nut to get an easy slide, but a somewhat higher, but not needed, level
of ease can be obtained by pushing up on the nut.
In order to get the LV rules to slide even close to as easy as the Empires, I
have to loosen the nuts to point where the rule is flopping around in the head
*and* then push up on the nut. That is not something I would want to do as a >everyday practice.
FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to
push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.
Could that be due to the indexing feature? How does the indexing feature work?
I assume it somehow locks into the stampings, correct?
Do you have other combo squares that don't require pushing up on the nut? The grove in the ruler needs to be stoned or lapped or ground smooth.
After the fact, make a tool that fits the groove of brass, smear it
with some fine (water-based) valve-grinding compound, work the groove
over a bit, and wash it out with hot water to remove the grit.
Joe Gwinn
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 09:53:41 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 10:45:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/21/2021 4:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last month >> >> > I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said thatAs Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule
he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally,
Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and >> >> > thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for
myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I
ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective. >> >> > Not in this case they aren't.
to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward
the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may
still be under tension from the spring.
Yes, the nut is spring loaded. Every combination square I've ever had had >> >a spring loaded nut.
I just tested my Empires against the two from Lee Valley. On the Empires, the
rules slide easily with the slightest loosening of the nut. On the LV units, there
is substantial drag. Pushing up on the nut on all units does make all of them
slide easier, but the relative difference between the Empires and the LV's is still
present. IOW, on the Empires (both the old and new one) there is no need to push
up on the nut to get an easy slide, but a somewhat higher, but not needed, level
of ease can be obtained by pushing up on the nut.
In order to get the LV rules to slide even close to as easy as the Empires, I
have to loosen the nuts to point where the rule is flopping around in the head
*and* then push up on the nut. That is not something I would want to do as a
everyday practice.
FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to
push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.
Could that be due to the indexing feature? How does the indexing feature work?
I assume it somehow locks into the stampings, correct?
Do you have other combo squares that don't require pushing up on the nut? >> The grove in the ruler needs to be stoned or lapped or ground smooth.
After the fact, make a tool that fits the groove of brass, smear it
with some fine (water-based) valve-grinding compound, work the groove
over a bit, and wash it out with hot water to remove the grit.
Joe Gwinn
...or download an RMA from LV and get a refund.
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works
right away.
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works
right away.
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could
help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote: >> "DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that worksThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp
screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes. >> It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole >> and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could
help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:08:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that worksThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes. >> It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
I thought the point was that you wanted another decent square to give
your future SIL.
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)Exactly, but not much. There's probably a BORG near. They carry
Empire and sell sandpaper and steel wool. Seems you're all set. ;-)
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:08:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:I thought the point was that you wanted another decent square to give
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >> >> >right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >> >$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
your future SIL.
Don't know if he's a keeper. Not really up to me.
I already had an Empire sent to my daughter. It's wrapped and under her tree.
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)Exactly, but not much. There's probably a BORG near. They carry
Empire and sell sandpaper and steel wool. Seems you're all set. ;-)
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
If convinced that he needs a $90 combo square, I can always tell my daughter >to pull the Empire out from under the tree and replace it with a card that says:
Your gift is on it's way. It's inside one of those blue things here:
https://i.imgur.com/pLpkzwO.jpg
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 1:29:22 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:08:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:I thought the point was that you wanted another decent square to give
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >> >> >right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >> >$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
your future SIL.
Don't know if he's a keeper. Not really up to me.
I already had an Empire sent to my daughter. It's wrapped and under her tree.
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)Exactly, but not much. There's probably a BORG near. They carry
Empire and sell sandpaper and steel wool. Seems you're all set. ;-)
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
If convinced that he needs a $90 combo square, I can always tell my daughter >to pull the Empire out from under the tree and replace it with a card that says:
Your gift is on it's way. It's inside one of those blue things here:
https://i.imgur.com/pLpkzwO.jpg
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin
wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that worksThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp
screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it
passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the
hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could
help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a
Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32")
has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've >never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
On 12/23/2021 2:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
You write that as though they are all the same. %-)
To add value you could "certify/validate" it yourself before you wrap
it. I think that would provide a nice personal touch. I would do so
anyway before I relied upon it. If you do so, please let us know what
you discover (for both of yours). I am pretty sure that they will be
more than fine for most applications in woodworking.
On 12/23/2021 2:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.You write that as though they are all the same. %-)
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
To add value you could "certify/validate" it yourself before you wrap
it. I think that would provide a nice personal touch. I would do so
anyway before I relied upon it.
If you do so, please let us know what you discover (for both of yours).
I am pretty sure that they will be more than fine for most applications
in woodworking.
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:18a1c708-d638-4f0c...@googlegroups.com...
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin >wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that worksThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it
passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the
hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a
Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") >has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've >never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)
Smoothness right out of the box. Easy to read scales.
Dead accurate for
machine set up (e.g., blade stops/fence stops/tilting bed stops, etc.).
It's kind of like using a L-N plane vs. a new Stanley plane... you see and feel the difference.
They make them with scales in 64ths and they have what they call "quick reading" 32nds and 64ths.
Do you absolutely need something this fine for woodworking itself? No, not really, a decent wooden try square and dividers or a compass could substitute. After 40+ years the decent one I got for Christmas as a kid was pretty well shot--my father was a journeyman tool a die maker in the '50s
and '60s so it made sense to him to get me a decent one. I had the money so
I got the Starrett maybe 10-12 years ago. The old one resides in my
carpentry tool box as it still has utility for carpentry when used with a pencil. The Starrett resides in my shop's precision tool drawer with calibers, dial gauges, etc. and is used for metal and woodworking and tool set ups.
P.S., It doesn't hurt to treat yourself occasionally.
Back in the '80s I did
a 3.5 month solo bicycle trip all over the east coast. While in FL I met a lot of middle aged and older people who were curious about my loaded down bicycle and what I was doing. I heard a lot of stories that started out with "I always wanted to..." None of those desires were carried out by the story tellers and there was disappointment in a lot of voices. It gave me a different perspective on life than I would have had otherwise. You need to take care of yourself.
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 16:17:07 -0500, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
On 12/23/2021 2:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
You write that as though they are all the same. %-)
To add value you could "certify/validate" it yourself before you wrapFWIW, I thought Empire was OK too. Made some small boxes. Was a bit
it. I think that would provide a nice personal touch. I would do so
anyway before I relied upon it. If you do so, please let us know what
you discover (for both of yours). I am pretty sure that they will be
more than fine for most applications in woodworking.
annoyed that the sides didn't meet. After much investigation I found
that my Empire combo square wasn't quite square. Cleaned everything,
it was now square, made more boxes, still didn't come out square. More investigating and it turned out that there was enough slop in it that
it was square sometimes and not others. I don't know if it was wear
or a manufacturing defect. I supposed I could have reworked it but
life is short.
Got a Starrett. End of problem.
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that worksThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp
screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes. >> It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole >> and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could
help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a $90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 4:17:10 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
On 12/23/2021 2:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.You write that as though they are all the same. %-)
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
You write that as though you haven't read any of my other posts in this >thread. %-)
I've already posted about the differences between the Empires and the
set from Lee Valley. That's what started this thread. I know that they
aren't all the same.
What I've asked (twice) is "What is the difference between a $14 Empire
and $90+ Starrett combo squares?" Haven't seen that answer yet.
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message >news:18a1c708-d638-4f0c-9873-35e6fcc8dcfen@googlegroups.com...
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin >>wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that worksThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >>> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it
passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the
hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >>> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a
Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >>$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") >>has served
me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've >>never been
bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?
I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)
Smoothness right out of the box. Easy to read scales. Dead accurate for >machine set up (e.g., blade stops/fence stops/tilting bed stops, etc.).
It's kind of like using a L-N plane vs. a new Stanley plane... you see and >feel the difference.
They make them with scales in 64ths and they have what they call "quick >reading" 32nds and 64ths.
Do you absolutely need something this fine for woodworking itself? No, not >really, a decent wooden try square and dividers or a compass could >substitute. After 40+ years the decent one I got for Christmas as a kid was >pretty well shot--my father was a journeyman tool a die maker in the '50s
and '60s so it made sense to him to get me a decent one. I had the money so >I got the Starrett maybe 10-12 years ago. The old one resides in my
carpentry tool box as it still has utility for carpentry when used with a >pencil. The Starrett resides in my shop's precision tool drawer with >calibers, dial gauges, etc. and is used for metal and woodworking and tool >set ups.
P.S., It doesn't hurt to treat yourself occasionally. Back in the '80s I did >a 3.5 month solo bicycle trip all over the east coast. While in FL I met a >lot of middle aged and older people who were curious about my loaded down >bicycle and what I was doing. I heard a lot of stories that started out with >"I always wanted to..." None of those desires were carried out by the story >tellers and there was disappointment in a lot of voices. It gave me a >different perspective on life than I would have had otherwise. You need to >take care of yourself.
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 10:45:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/21/2021 4:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last monthAs Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule
I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that >>> he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete
company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)
So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally,
Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and
thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for
myself.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I >>> ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward
the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may
still be under tension from the spring.
Yes, the nut is spring loaded. Every combination square I've ever had had
a spring loaded nut.
I just tested my Empires against the two from Lee Valley. On the Empires, the rules slide easily with the slightest loosening of the nut. On the LV units, there
is substantial drag. Pushing up on the nut on all units does make all of them slide easier, but the relative difference between the Empires and the LV's is still
present. IOW, on the Empires (both the old and new one) there is no need to push
up on the nut to get an easy slide, but a somewhat higher, but not needed, level
of ease can be obtained by pushing up on the nut.
In order to get the LV rules to slide even close to as easy as the Empires, I have to loosen the nuts to point where the rule is flopping around in the head
*and* then push up on the nut. That is not something I would want to do as a everyday practice.
FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to
push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.
Could that be due to the indexing feature? How does the indexing feature work?
I assume it somehow locks into the stampings, correct?
Do you have other combo squares that don't require pushing up on the nut?
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >>> right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes. >> It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a $90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?Longevity of accuracy.
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 5:08:26 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
Back in the '80s I did
a 3.5 month solo bicycle trip all over the east coast. While in FL I met
a
lot of middle aged and older people who were curious about my loaded down
bicycle and what I was doing. I heard a lot of stories that started out
with
"I always wanted to..." None of those desires were carried out by the
story
tellers and there was disappointment in a lot of voices. It gave me a
different perspective on life than I would have had otherwise. You need
to
take care of yourself.
While I haven't done *everything* I've said I wanted to do (has anyone?)
I've done
enough that I could die tonight with no regrets.
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a
$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
Longevity of accuracy.
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:Longevity of accuracy.
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >> >>> right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >> > $90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
And how has the accuracy of my old Empire changed?
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 4:17:10 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
On 12/23/2021 2:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still interested in knowing what an extra $75 gets me.You write that as though they are all the same. %-)
In my experience, the Empire is more than "decent".
You write that as though you haven't read any of my other posts in this thread. %-)
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 2:54:42 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/squares/74806-12-inch-and-6-combination-square-set?item=99W7555
https://tinyurl.com/ComboSquares
Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it
barely helped.
Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and
that's what I'm going to give him instead.
They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped thatSomewhere, someone in a factory messed up. It happens. I've got Starrett combo squares that are excellent, but ONE of them is 'way off of square).
Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective.
Not in this case they aren't.
If it's sticky, it's probably a burr or a bit of foreign material; a hand stone rubbed on
the burr will fix the problem, you just have to inspect a lot of surfaces and edges.
Less likely, something is bent; inspection for a curve is not difficult, but it's not
as fix-able (I've got a dial indicator that sticks, unless I apply stress; it's retired
now).
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >>> right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes. >> It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a $90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?Longevity of accuracy.
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John GrossbohlinLongevity of accuracy.
wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one thatThen a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
works
right away.
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the
clamp
screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it
passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the
hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole
could
help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a
Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does
a
$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
An explanation of your answer and a whole lot more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRi9geL8mg
How to tune up a combo square...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCxIg1lQ8pw
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:Longevity of accuracy.
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >> >>> right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp >> >> screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could >> >> help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a >> > $90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
An explanation of your answer and a whole lot more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRi9geL8mg
How to tune up a combo square...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCxIg1lQ8pw
I looked at my ten or fifteen year old Empires last night. They have
a lot of the "defects" in this video. The ends were polished but the
groves did have wavies. They're square, though.
I didn't have much of a reference point for sliding. While the action
isn't exactly ball bearing-like, they move OK. I was at the BORG
today and tried a couple of their Empires. Wow! They might just as
well have glue in the mechanism. It would be really hard to set the
length accurately.
On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 09:37:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/23/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 11:21:17 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:Longevity of accuracy.
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:7c3a548c-71e3-40a7...@googlegroups.com...
I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works >> >>> right away.Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)
Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp
screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes.
It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole
and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could
help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.
Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a
$90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?
An explanation of your answer and a whole lot more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRi9geL8mgI looked at my ten or fifteen year old Empires last night. They have
a lot of the "defects" in this video. The ends were polished but the
groves did have wavies. They're square, though.
I didn't have much of a reference point for sliding. While the action
isn't exactly ball bearing-like, they move OK. I was at the BORG
today and tried a couple of their Empires. Wow! They might just as
well have glue in the mechanism. It would be really hard to set the
length accurately.
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