• Today's Trool - The failure of our Political Wars.

    From Jerry Osage@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 15:47:45 2021
    Today seems to be a good day to post some thoughts from a 2014 paper/book written in 2015 by Chris Mason.

    "The Strategic Lessons Unlearned from Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan"

    It can be found at U.S. Army War College, Strategic Studies Institute and purchased there. When it was first published free copies were available -
    but not now, there must have been a run on the free copies...

    <https://bookstore.gpo.gov/products/strategic-lessons-unlearned-vietnam-iraq-and-afghanistan-why-afghan-national-security>
    It also provides a good synopses of the book and Mason's creds..

    And, a PDF can be found at the Defense Technical Information Center here <https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA617803>

    "The Strategic Lessons Unlearned from Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan"

    We did not learn a lesson from Vietnam or Iraq and committed the same
    mistakes in Afghanistan.

    Our politicians and strategic planners, interpreted all three conflicts as insurgencies, when in fact all three were civil wars in which the United
    States chose a side - the losing side - in spite of our military might...

    Success was never possible from the outset, because none of the three
    countries were nations for which the majority of their citizens were willing
    to fight and die for a concept, Democracy, that they were unfamiliar with.
    Or, for most, if they were familiar with the concept of Democracy, and the separation of religion and government, went against their core beliefs.

    Nation-building is a slow, evolutionary, internal process through which
    the political identity of the peoples within a country's borders matures
    over centuries to transcend tribalism, secularism, and ethnic divides, and until the country reaches a pervasive sense of nationhood. "Nation
    building," and democracy importation on the end of a foreign gun, is impossible.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
    George Santayana

    Anyone wanting to commit American ground forces to the mainland of Asia
    should have his head examined.
    Douglas MacArthur, 1961

    Any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should have
    his head examined.
    Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, 2011

    The wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan were all fought after General Douglas MacArthur's admonition in 1961 to President John Kennedy not to
    commit land forces to a war in Asia. Three times in 40 years, the United
    States committed large numbers of U.S. ground forces to land wars in Asia anyway and lost all three of them, not on the battlefield, but at the
    strategic level.

    Foreigners can build architecture, but they cannot build a nation. Extensive empirical data shows conclusively that there was no increase in local
    community support for the Afghan government we put in place, for example,
    after the delivery of schools, roads, clinics, and so on, by the counterinsurgents.

    We built it, and they did not come. Furthermore, this data was available
    before the tactic of "clear, hold, and build" was widely implemented at enormous cost in blood and treasure.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Biden can't be faulted for starting this failed war, Bush owns that. But, Biden owns the chaotic retreat. No, that's not true, he doesn't own it -
    his keepers and political handlers own it.. Biden is too far gone to understand what is/has/will happen. However, his political handlers seem to have been right - in the long run just getting out will be more important to the population than how we did it - we have short memory's and are in a
    fight to the death over vaccines and vaccinations. Our Allies are more
    upset with Biden over our chaotic retreat than we are - not that it matters much.

    --
    Jerry O.

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  • From Jerry Osage@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 15:52:21 2021
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:47:45 -0500, Jerry.Osage@invalid.net (Jerry Osage) wrote:
    My apologies - wrong group - although it is an interesting paper.
    --
    Jerry O.

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  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Jerry Osage on Tue Sep 14 17:03:13 2021
    On 9/13/2021 3:52 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:47:45 -0500, Jerry.Osage@invalid.net (Jerry Osage) wrote:
    My apologies - wrong group - although it is an interesting paper.



    While on the subject, 2014 thoughts from a paper book written in 2015?

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  • From Jerry Osage@21:1/5 to Leon on Tue Sep 14 17:47:45 2021
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:03:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 3:52 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:47:45 -0500, Jerry.Osage@invalid.net (Jerry Osage)
    wrote:
    My apologies - wrong group - although it is an interesting paper.



    While on the subject, 2014 thoughts from a paper book written in 2015?

    Paper presented to the Was College in 2014 - published as a book for the general public in 2015.
    --
    Jerry O.

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  • From krw@notreal.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 14 18:54:33 2021
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:03:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
    wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 3:52 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:47:45 -0500, Jerry.Osage@invalid.net (Jerry Osage)
    wrote:
    My apologies - wrong group - although it is an interesting paper.



    While on the subject, 2014 thoughts from a paper book written in 2015?

    Did H.G Wells write the book?

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  • From Leon@21:1/5 to Jerry Osage on Wed Sep 15 14:16:57 2021
    On 9/14/2021 5:47 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:03:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 3:52 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:47:45 -0500, Jerry.Osage@invalid.net (Jerry Osage) >>> wrote:
    My apologies - wrong group - although it is an interesting paper.



    While on the subject, 2014 thoughts from a paper book written in 2015?

    Paper presented to the Was College in 2014 - published as a book for the general public in 2015.



    AH! The way the lines came across and the / was used, it thought a
    paper/book, as in paper back book published the following year.

    My fault.

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