• Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737

    From Byker@21:1/5 to stoney on Fri Dec 20 12:05:37 2019
    XPost: soc.culture.china, talk.politics.misc, rec.aviation
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    "stoney" wrote in message news:qti01a$9b9$1@dont-email.me...

    Nowadays, all these new planes do not need white men pilots. As long the standard training is applied to everyone, any local pilot can fly it, per
    se.

    The Max plane that crashed in Indonesia was piloted by the pilot from Indonesia. When the plane crashed, Boeing blamed the incompetence of the pilot which was an Indonesian, and also poor local maintenance crew on the plane.

    The FAA also believed so and therefore nothing much of the investigation
    of the plane maker was further on that crash, until This Lion Air was new
    had operated 400 hours in service only. The Ethiopian airline crashed on March 2019. The crashed Ethiopian airliner was only 4 month old.

    The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke English
    as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes involving
    U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From George@21:1/5 to Byker on Sat Dec 21 08:15:10 2019
    XPost: soc.culture.china, talk.politics.misc, rec.aviation
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600
    "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

    "stoney" wrote in message news:qti01a$9b9$1@dont-email.me...

    Nowadays, all these new planes do not need white men pilots. As
    long the standard training is applied to everyone, any local pilot
    can fly it, per se.

    The Max plane that crashed in Indonesia was piloted by the pilot
    from Indonesia. When the plane crashed, Boeing blamed the
    incompetence of the pilot which was an Indonesian, and also poor
    local maintenance crew on the plane.

    The FAA also believed so and therefore nothing much of the
    investigation of the plane maker was further on that crash, until
    This Lion Air was new had operated 400 hours in service only. The
    Ethiopian airline crashed on March 2019. The crashed Ethiopian
    airliner was only 4 month old.

    The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke
    English as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max
    crashes involving U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?


    What a bloody racist.
    There are thousands of aircrews not white who go out every day, do
    their sectors and go home same as the white aircrews

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Byker@21:1/5 to George on Fri Dec 20 16:03:18 2019
    XPost: soc.culture.china, talk.politics.misc, rec.aviation
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    "George" wrote in message news:20191221081510.00003f18@hnpl.net...

    What a bloody racist.
    There are thousands of aircrews not white who go out every day, do their sectors and go home same as the white aircrews

    And they've been properly trained, something
    turd-world shitholes can't afford...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From PhantomView@21:1/5 to Byker on Fri Dec 20 21:47:30 2019
    XPost: soc.culture.china, talk.politics.misc, rec.aviation
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

    "stoney" wrote in message news:qti01a$9b9$1@dont-email.me...

    Nowadays, all these new planes do not need white men pilots. As long the
    standard training is applied to everyone, any local pilot can fly it, per
    se.

    The Max plane that crashed in Indonesia was piloted by the pilot from
    Indonesia. When the plane crashed, Boeing blamed the incompetence of the
    pilot which was an Indonesian, and also poor local maintenance crew on the >> plane.

    The FAA also believed so and therefore nothing much of the investigation
    of the plane maker was further on that crash, until This Lion Air was new
    had operated 400 hours in service only. The Ethiopian airline crashed on
    March 2019. The crashed Ethiopian airliner was only 4 month old.

    The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke English >as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes involving
    U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?

    I think Boeing may have had a 'cultural bias' built into
    its design and instruction manual - one that put non-
    english-speakers at a disadvantage. The fatal flaw
    was hard to understand in and of itself, requiring some
    counter-intuitive corrective measures. By the time the
    foreign pilots could "think like an American" it was too
    late.

    It was a "smartplane" feature ... but implemented VERY
    badly. No automated system should EVER fight the
    pilot. It would be like an automotive cruise control applying
    more throttle when you hit the brakes. The instant the
    pilot put hands on the wheel the anti-stall feature should
    have cut off entirely.

    And now it is even WORSE for Boeing. Not only will there
    be a few months more delay in re-certifying the Max (seems
    there were other issues too) but this morning their new Orion
    space capsule went to shit. Apparently somebody did not
    set the clock correctly .......... no doubt heads are rolling down
    the corridors at the office ...............

    I guess this will mean two or three additional un-manned
    flights will be necessary to prove they got it right. They
    do think they can retrieve the capsule from its weird orbit
    however so at least they be able to do a post-mortem.

    The SpaceX capsule is also in limbo. It did get to the
    space station, did dock, did return as intended - but
    during its post-mortem/refurb a terrible design flaw
    in the retro engine design became clear when one of
    them exploded. That COULD have happend in space
    or during re-entry, with people in the thing. Not good.

    So, it looks like we will NOT have a homegrown way
    to send people into space again until maybe the latter
    half of 2020, maybe 2021. I sure as hell would not trust
    the products of EITHER company until they got quite
    a number of full successes under their belts. Pack
    the things with TV dinners for the space station ...
    may as well get some use out of them during the
    tests. (millenials+ may not know what a "TV dinner"
    actually was ... I do recall the peas always tasted
    of aluminum ...)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Byker@21:1/5 to Byker on Sun Dec 22 09:45:32 2019
    XPost: soc.culture.china, talk.politics.misc, rec.aviation
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    "PhantomView" wrote in message news:vt1rvedgg1fkscgrg2eknqj7dqrfvbr6gk@4ax.com...

    On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

    The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke
    English as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes >>involving U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?

    I think Boeing may have had a 'cultural bias' built into
    its design and instruction manual - one that put non-
    english-speakers at a disadvantage. The fatal flaw
    was hard to understand in and of itself, requiring some
    counter-intuitive corrective measures. By the time the
    foreign pilots could "think like an American" it was too
    late.

    It was a "smartplane" feature ... but implemented VERY
    badly. No automated system should EVER fight the
    pilot. It would be like an automotive cruise control applying
    more throttle when you hit the brakes. The instant the
    pilot put hands on the wheel the anti-stall feature should
    have cut off entirely.

    It's just the latest in a series of embarrassing (and often fatal) results whenever a "new and improved" model is put on the market, like British
    Midlands flight 92 ("Do I shut down the left or right engine?"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoUPZ_KJrWc

    Also: "Airbus is ready for pilotless jets - are you?"
    Nope: https://phys.org/news/2019-06-airbus-ready-pilotless-jets-.html

    What happens when automation goes psycho:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72

    https://www.internetvictory.org/qantas-near-disaster-qf-72/

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/sunday-night-how-a-routine-qantas-flight-became-a-nightmare/news-story/7b60f535735336dcf6c252ae2168b327



    I do recall the peas always tasted of aluminum ...)

    No doubt the Millennials' parents remember what
    happened when they tried to microwave them ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From PhantomView@21:1/5 to Byker on Sun Dec 22 21:29:10 2019
    XPost: soc.culture.china, talk.politics.misc, rec.aviation
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 09:45:32 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

    "PhantomView" wrote in message >news:vt1rvedgg1fkscgrg2eknqj7dqrfvbr6gk@4ax.com...

    On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:

    The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke >>>English as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes >>>involving U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?

    I think Boeing may have had a 'cultural bias' built into
    its design and instruction manual - one that put non-
    english-speakers at a disadvantage. The fatal flaw
    was hard to understand in and of itself, requiring some
    counter-intuitive corrective measures. By the time the
    foreign pilots could "think like an American" it was too
    late.

    It was a "smartplane" feature ... but implemented VERY
    badly. No automated system should EVER fight the
    pilot. It would be like an automotive cruise control applying
    more throttle when you hit the brakes. The instant the
    pilot put hands on the wheel the anti-stall feature should
    have cut off entirely.

    It's just the latest in a series of embarrassing (and often fatal) results >whenever a "new and improved" model is put on the market, like British >Midlands flight 92 ("Do I shut down the left or right engine?"): >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoUPZ_KJrWc

    Also: "Airbus is ready for pilotless jets - are you?"
    Nope: https://phys.org/news/2019-06-airbus-ready-pilotless-jets-.html

    What happens when automation goes psycho:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72

    https://www.internetvictory.org/qantas-near-disaster-qf-72/

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/sunday-night-how-a-routine-qantas-flight-became-a-nightmare/news-story/7b60f535735336dcf6c252ae2168b327


    I do wonder though, if the plane had been completely automatic
    would there have been an issue ? In this particular case, I would
    say "probably yes" because the anti-stall system engaged far
    too near the ground. Give its way, the flight path would have been
    "corrected" about 1000 feet underground. The pilots knew there
    was not a real problem, knew what to do, but the automation
    fought them to the end.

    Likely there were a lot MORE screwups in the software, the
    reason it is taking so long to get the planes re-certified.
    Software, especially "intelligent" software, can be very hard
    to de-bug ... but Boeing wanted to start selling planes RIGHT
    NOW. I await some whistleblowers to come out and claim
    their serious concerns were ignored so Boeing could rush
    the plane to the market.

    For the near future, IMHO there should be NO software in
    these planes that can in any way affect its flight systems.
    Warnings, maybe suggestions, yes - but let the humans
    do the actual flying. Leave it at the old-fashioned "hold
    course/speed/altitude" auto-pilot systems ... they work.



    I do recall the peas always tasted of aluminum ...)

    No doubt the Millennials' parents remember what
    happened when they tried to microwave them ;-)

    OOOH-Yea ! :-)

    Some folks popped the original "Jiffy Pop" things in
    there - aluminum pan covered by aluminum foil ....

    Nowadays the successors come in hard plastic trays.
    The peas no longer taste like aluminum. Do not have
    much taste at all actually.

    Oh, for funzies, put one of those empty trays in the
    microwave and plop a CD or DVD disk on top,
    recording side up. Then hit the power for about three
    seconds and no more. The result is actually rather
    beautiful, artistic, a "frozen lightning" effect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)