I get your point about them not being swayed by the "you're a hypocrite argument" that you'd have expected them to be totally convinced.
You seem surprised how much ineffective it is against them.
Perhaps for your generation it meant something, actually a lot, it was a sort of converted match point or a Hawkeye ruling, the point is over and if you lost it, you concede.
But I feel you're kinda wrong here about the youths, although I agree with the general trend.
For example, take a look at international politics.
US and western Europe are exerting enormous pressure on Serbia to recognize US theft of their historical province of Kosovo, that USA seized from them and proclaimed it independent state.
E.g.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/serbia-rejects-us-proposal-on-recognizing-kosovo/1962486
At the same time, lol, USA is bullying Serbia (which is most pro-Russian nation) to condemn Russia, sanction Russia, for the violation of Ukranian borders, even interfering in Serbian domestic policy to force Serbia to care about separatism in Ukraine.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-sanctions-pro-russian-head-serbias-state-security-agency-2023-07-11/
So anyway, we know politics are dictated by interests and so on, but do you see this blatant double standards when we discuss border issues and separatism?
It's ridiculous how it's done openly and the whole west pretends as if it's not happening, them openly subjecting Serbia to its own double standards.
On 11/12/23 8:48 AM, *skriptis wrote:
I get your point about them not being swayed by the "you're a hypocrite argument" that you'd have expected them to be totally convinced.
You seem surprised how much ineffective it is against them.Yes, I was until I figured it out about a year or two ago.
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the same
generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for
that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on generational differences.
Perhaps for your generation it meant something, actually a lot, it was a sort of converted match point or a Hawkeye ruling, the point is over and if you lost it, you concede.Yes. We (boomers) rigorously avoided getting into situations that might appear hypocritical back when we were young because hypocrisy was our
MAJOR complaint against our parents' generation.
Of course this went by the wayside from the 80s onward, although the underlying shame of it remained, and drove many of my cohort into deep denial.
This attempt to not be hypocritical has stayed in me, and in today's
western culture it is a glaring weak spot.
But I'll still get by... :^)
Well, yes, I recognize this as an instance of hypocrisy in national/international policy, and it's pretty much the same as when the
US backed dictatorial regimes in Asia and S. America in the 50s-70s, tapering off somewhat (although not going away) after that.
Really, I understand the *why* better now; it is purely a policy to put
in positions of power national leaders who reflexively agree with US
policy stances. In the instance of Serbia was different: it was a
god-given chance to publicly discipline a Caucasian nation using force, thereby demonstrating that US/west Europe was even-handed and not racist/colonialist.
So that they could go back to bombing/killing colored folk, as
convenience dictated, without being perceived as *too* racist.
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the same generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on generational differences.
see this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of people
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:exposing someone's hypocrisy, inconsistency, or other "bad behavior" is a huge stretch.
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the same generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on generational differences.
see this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of peopleI've wondered over the past few years where the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when supposedly
Probably what happened is that Gen-Z kiddies confused this with the expression "to CALL someone" on something, which came from poker--particularly when you suspect someone is bluffing. Basically you're saying, "you act like you have a winning hand butI don't believe you do. I'm laying down money right now to make you show the cards you *really* have."
Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt." But"call out" is the worst offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand expressions they intend to use before actually using them!
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:exposing someone's hypocrisy, inconsistency, or other "bad behavior" is a huge stretch.
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:I've wondered over the past few years where the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when supposedly
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the samesee this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of people
generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and
expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no
trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for
that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on
generational differences.
Probably what happened is that Gen-Z kiddies confused this with the expression "to CALL someone" on something, which came from poker--particularly when you suspect someone is bluffing. Basically you're saying, "you act like you have a winning hand butI don't believe you do. I'm laying down money right now to make you show the cards you *really* have."
Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."But "call out" is the worst offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand expressions they intend to use before actually using them!
On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 17:18:15 UTC, Gracchus wrote:supposedly exposing someone's hypocrisy, inconsistency, or other "bad behavior" is a huge stretch.
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the same generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for
that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on generational differences.
see this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of peopleI've wondered over the past few years where the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when
but I don't believe you do. I'm laying down money right now to make you show the cards you *really* have."Probably what happened is that Gen-Z kiddies confused this with the expression "to CALL someone" on something, which came from poker--particularly when you suspect someone is bluffing. Basically you're saying, "you act like you have a winning hand
But "call out" is the worst offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand expressions they intend to use before actually using them!Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."
hey did mean "call out" in the sense of calling them out for a fight. You can't constantly go around being a huge hypocrite and then not expect to get beaten up.
On 11/13/23 9:18 AM, Gracchus wrote:supposedly exposing someone's hypocrisy, inconsistency, or other "bad behavior" is a huge stretch.
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:I've wondered over the past few years where the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the samesee this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of people
generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and >>> expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no >>> trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for >>> that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on
generational differences.
It is similar to stretching "phobia" to cover not a fear of something,
but a disgust with it.
but I don't believe you do. I'm laying down money right now to make you show the cards you *really* have."Probably what happened is that Gen-Z kiddies confused this with the expression "to CALL someone" on something, which came from poker--particularly when you suspect someone is bluffing. Basically you're saying, "you act like you have a winning hand
But "call out" is the worst offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand expressions they intend to use before actually using them!Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."
They are staggering from one meme/cliche to another, like in the song
where Tom Waits describes being so drunk that he lurches from parking
meter to parking meter for support.
The thing is, they think they invent it all. All of it. No one had ever heard or used the term until they *liked* it and started using it loosely.
On Monday, 13 November 2023 at 17:18:15 UTC, Gracchus wrote:supposedly exposing someone's hypocrisy, inconsistency, or other "bad behavior" is a huge stretch.
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:I've wondered over the past few years where the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the samesee this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of people
generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and
expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no >>>> trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for >>>> that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on
generational differences.
I don't believe you do. I'm laying down money right now to make you show the cards you *really* have."
Probably what happened is that Gen-Z kiddies confused this with the expression "to CALL someone" on something, which came from poker--particularly when you suspect someone is bluffing. Basically you're saying, "you act like you have a winning hand but
But "call out" is the worst offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand expressions they intend to use before actually using them!
Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."
hey did mean "call out" in the sense of calling them out for a fight. You can't constantly go around being a huge hypocrite and then not expect to get beaten up.
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:44:27 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:supposedly exposing someone's hypocrisy, inconsistency, or other "bad behavior" is a huge stretch.
On 11/13/23 9:18 AM, Gracchus wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote:I've wondered over the past few years where the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when
I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the samesee this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of people
generation can support the idea of XY individuals wearing dresses and >>>>> expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no >>>>> trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for >>>>> that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on
generational differences.
but I don't believe you do. I'm laying down money right now to make you show the cards you *really* have."It is similar to stretching "phobia" to cover not a fear of something,Yep, it always has to be a reflexive irrational "fear."
but a disgust with it.
Probably what happened is that Gen-Z kiddies confused this with the expression "to CALL someone" on something, which came from poker--particularly when you suspect someone is bluffing. Basically you're saying, "you act like you have a winning hand
But "call out" is the worst offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand expressions they intend to use before actually using them!Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."
They are staggering from one meme/cliche to another, like in the songThat's many of the songs from his first half-dozen albums, right? ;) I love Tom Waits.
where Tom Waits describes being so drunk that he lurches from parking
meter to parking meter for support.
The thing is, they think they invent it all. All of it. No one had everYep, that's a crucial point. They don't want to hear about anything older than 10 years ago, but they pick up fragments of unknown origin (to *them*) and believe they've made something brand-new.
heard or used the term until they *liked* it and started using it loosely.
On 11/13/23 10:02 AM, Gracchus wrote:
They are staggering from one meme/cliche to another, like in the song
where Tom Waits describes being so drunk that he lurches from parking
meter to parking meter for support.
That's many of the songs from his first half-dozen albums, right? ;) I love Tom Waits.Hah, hah!
It's the one where he says that his coffee was so weak that his ham
sandwich went down the counter and beat the shit out of it. The coffee couldn't defend itself.
Nighthawks of the Diner?
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 8:29:36 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:> On Sunday, 12 November 2023 at 17:21:58 UTC, Sawfish wrote: > > I was shocked when I realized it, but on reflection, if the same > > generation can support the idea of XYindividuals wearing dresses and > > expecting to be called "she--and ostensibly back again--they'd have no > > trouble at all with hypocrisy, or anything else ethical or logical, for > > that matter. I realized that it was a mismatch of values based on >
generational differences.> see this is where disagree, it a difference of dumbness, not generation or anything. You cannot function as a person doing this for long cos you'll get called out on it by a lot of peopleI've wondered over the past few yearswhere the current and sadly ubiquitous usage of "call out" came from. To "call someone out" traditionally meant literally calling them out to fight, whether with fists, guns, or whatever. Using this when supposedly exposing someone's hypocrisy,
Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone
in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse
of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."
But "call out" is the worst
offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use
of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand
expressions they intend to use before actually using them!
Gracchus <grac...@gmail.com> writes:
Young journalists, bloggers, etc. followed the clueless and ended up perpetuating this misnomer. This is a bit like the now-common "hone"Out of pocket" is another one I see misused a lot.
in" (clearly a corruption of "home in") or more recently, the misuse
of terms like "gaslight" and "witch hunt."
But "call out" is the worstKind of like how "woke" is used on rst.
offender because it's not only the most widespread, but it's lazy use
of language. FFS, people should at least *try* to understand
expressions they intend to use before actually using them!
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:43:51 AM UTC-8, Sawfish wrote:off Without a Wife," etc.
On 11/13/23 10:02 AM, Gracchus wrote:
They are staggering from one meme/cliche to another, like in the song >> where Tom Waits describes being so drunk that he lurches from parking >> meter to parking meter for support.
That's many of the songs from his first half-dozen albums, right? ;) I love Tom Waits.Hah, hah!
It's the one where he says that his coffee was so weak that his ham sandwich went down the counter and beat the shit out of it. The coffee couldn't defend itself.
Nighthawks of the Diner?"Nighthawks at the Diner" is the first line of "Eggs and Sausage" and also the name of the album. IMO it's a great one that captures Waits' persona at that time in a (sort of) live setting. Every track is a winner. "Emotional Weather Report," "Better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2GfMu0JJs8&ab_channel=TomWaits
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