From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev
then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet
Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that
serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and
reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens
players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev
then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like there
should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice leads to
losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like

there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice
leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on blaming
everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches whenever
they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote: > > From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to > > their coaches during matches, and taking the

strategy from them. One > > thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players > > don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves. > > > > Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve > > to the FH in the
deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev > > then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet > > Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that > > serve. If he had done some of his own
thinking, maybe he would've > > started varying the serve. > > > > Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what > > the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and > > reluctant to suddenly change based on
suggestions (James Blake was > > similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think > > for himself ? > > > > I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens > > players when it comes to relying on the coaches -
kind of being coddled.> Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting
penalized. Seems like there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when
following advice leads to losing points, and so on. > > Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next
time.it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on
blaming everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches
whenever they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?


I can accept your point of view and agree with it in a way, but I like this how's it now because I was bored with coaching violations and the controversies sorrounding it.

Everybody screams and yells in stadions, they give their advices, so why shouldn't coaches be allowed too. Besides everything can be bypassed, player could have a man in front row who could scream his coach's tips for him and nobody would know?

I just want the whole thing out of the focus.

I like it now because we are not talking about coaching violations.


I wouldn't go as far as let coach come down and talk to players in exchanges, that's a no-no, but if he's willing to degrade himself by screaming in between points from the stands, then I don't care.

Fun part is that the opponent can hear those advices as well and adapt to it.


--




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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 4:26:28 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like

there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice
leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on blaming

everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches whenever
they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?

The problem is, now that coaching has been allowed, there's probably no going back because the Gen-Z weenies would scream about it. In the "old days," most players would have been embarrassed to be so visibly dependent on coaches (with few exceptions,
like Vilas). As they gradually became shameless about it, the problem became *enforcing* the coaching ban, because there are so many ways to cheat--secret signals, players like Tsitisi texting his daddy during bathroom breaks, etc. Whenever anyone got
caught, they'd say "everyone does it."

So I think the best to hope for now is allowing limited coaching. That way, they will have no business whining about the mean officials depriving them of their precious "support system" since their own brains are no longer good enough.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 9/12/23 4:26 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev
then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet
Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that
serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and
reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens
players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like

there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice
leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on blaming

everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches whenever
they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?

Just say "No!" to player box coaching.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Confidence: the food of the wise man and the liquor of the fool."

--Sawfish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 9/12/2023 10:57 AM, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/12/23 4:26 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

 From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve >>>> to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev >>>> then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet >>>> Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that >>>> serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and
reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think >>>> for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens >>>> players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being
coddled.

Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far
in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players
getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about
others *not* getting penalized. Seems like there should be some
middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation
sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome
seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their
coaches when following advice leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a
pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C
plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis
is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the
individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking
up to this stupid snowflake reliance on blaming everyone else for any
problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently.
How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when
the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame
the coaches whenever they lose, as millennial types often do in
everything?

Just say "No!" to player box coaching.

Like Coco did to Gilbert when she was playing Wozniacki(?) at the US
Open this year? It was pretty funny.
--
---------------
Scall5

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/09/2023 03:42, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev
then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that
serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

I hate the new coaching rule. It definitely favours those with less problem-solving skills, or younger, less experienced players.

Flink talks about Alcaraz's coaching here at this timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYARS8nas4Q&t=2276s

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:57:37 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/12/23 4:26 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve >>> to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev >>> then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet >>> Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that >>> serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what >>> the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and >>> reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think >>> for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens >>> players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled. >> Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like

there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice
leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on

blaming everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches
whenever they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?

Just say "No!" to player box coaching.

I guess the idea here is that it should just be the player, out there all alone, depending on only himself. I get that. Still, the player is certainly affected by the crowd.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/09/2023 17:26, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.9.2023 19.03, grif wrote:

On 12/09/2023 03:42, Shakes wrote:

 From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev
then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet
Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that
serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and
reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens
players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

I hate the new coaching rule. It definitely favours those with less problem-solving skills, or younger, less experienced players.

Flink talks about Alcaraz's coaching here at this timestamp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYARS8nas4Q&t=2276s

A good discussion there. I don't mind the coaching unless it turns into the Rune type of constant bickering. That is annoying. Otherwise, whatever. What I have been pondering is whether getting advice from outside the court is good for the

concentration. Nevermind whether the advice works on one point or not. Just in general. I really don't know.


Talking about Rune, they talk about Shelton for a bit and they mentioned that Shelton's swagger could rub opponents the wrong way. Rune vs Shelton. The battle for who can piss players off the most, lol.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13.9.2023 19.03, grif wrote:

On 12/09/2023 03:42, Shakes wrote:

 From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One
thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev
then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet
Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that
serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what
the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and
reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think
for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens
players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

I hate the new coaching rule. It definitely favours those with less problem-solving skills, or younger, less experienced players.

Flink talks about Alcaraz's coaching here at this timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYARS8nas4Q&t=2276s

A good discussion there. I don't mind the coaching unless it turns into
the Rune type of constant bickering. That is annoying. Otherwise,
whatever. What I have been pondering is whether getting advice from
outside the court is good for the concentration. Nevermind whether the
advice works on one point or not. Just in general. I really don't know.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

On 13.9.2023 19.03, grif wrote:> On 12/09/2023 03:42, Shakes wrote:>> From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to>> their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One>> thing I observed that could be a result

of this is that the players>> don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.>>>> Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve>> to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev>> then started covering
that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet>> Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that>> serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've>> started varying the serve.>>>> Same thing with Medvedev in
the F with the return position. From what>> the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and>> reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was>> similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to
think>> for himself ?>>>> I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens>> players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.> > I hate the new coaching rule. It definitely favours those with less > problem-
solving skills, or younger, less experienced players.> > Flink talks about Alcaraz's coaching here at this timestamp:> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYARS8nas4Q&t=2276sA good discussion there. I don't mind the coaching unless it turns into the Rune
type of constant bickering. That is annoying. Otherwise, whatever. What I have been pondering is whether getting advice from outside the court is good for the concentration. Nevermind whether the advice works on one point or not. Just in general. I
really don't know.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional



Yes.



--




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On 9/13/23 9:27 AM, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:57:37 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/12/23 4:26 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:

From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to
their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One >>>>> thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players
don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve >>>>> to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev >>>>> then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet >>>>> Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that >>>>> serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've
started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what >>>>> the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and >>>>> reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was
similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think >>>>> for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens >>>>> players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled. >>>> Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like

there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice
leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on

blaming everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches
whenever they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?

Just say "No!" to player box coaching.

I guess the idea here is that it should just be the player, out there all alone, depending on only himself. I get that. Still, the player is certainly affected by the crowd.

I don't see it (coaching) as a major factor, but given my preference I'd eliminate it.

So far as the crowd, the player's ability to insulate him/herself from
any negative effects is a part of their talent pool. In a way, it's like
being able to play effectively in hot. muggy weather.

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On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/13/23 9:27 AM, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:57:37 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/12/23 4:26 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 September 2023 at 04:35:35 UTC+1, Gracchus wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:42:12 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote: >>>>> From what I saw in the SF's/F's, players are talking a lot more to >>>>> their coaches during matches, and taking the strategy from them. One >>>>> thing I observed that could be a result of this is that the players >>>>> don't seem to be doing any thinking for themselves.

Looking at the Medvedev-Alcaraz match, Alcaraz was using the wide serve
to the FH in the deuce court consistently and winning points. Medvedev >>>>> then started covering that side as soon as Alcaraz tossed the ball. Yet
Ferrero suggested Alcaraz to continue attacking and he kept using that >>>>> serve. If he had done some of his own thinking, maybe he would've >>>>> started varying the serve.

Same thing with Medvedev in the F with the return position. From what >>>>> the commentators mentioned, Medvedev is apparently quite stubborn and >>>>> reluctant to suddenly change based on suggestions (James Blake was >>>>> similar). Maybe Medvedev would've changed something if he had to think >>>>> for himself ?

I see the same thing happening with the Mens players as with the Womens
players when it comes to relying on the coaches - kind of being coddled.

Yeah, I don't see it as a positive thing. IMO they have gone too far in the other direction in trying to quell controversy over players getting penalized for coaching or opposing players complaining about others *not* getting penalized. Seems like

there should be some middle ground where they allow a limited number of "consultation sessions" a player can have with their team each match. It's tiresome seeing them in constant exchanges or players screaming at their coaches when following advice
leads to losing points, and so on.

Many great players went through entire careers without crying for a pacifier when things went awry. You go out there with an A, B, & C plan. If it turns out that's not enough, make better plans next time.

it pathetic, they shouldn't be allowed any coaching in a match! tennis is an individual sport, on the day should be totally down to the individual to work out how to beat their opponent. It's just sucking up to this stupid snowflake reliance on

blaming everyone else for any problem and will just make them even worse snowflakes than currently. How can it now make the game worse and players worse as (you say) when the idiots won't bother thinking for themselves and will just blame the coaches
whenever they lose, as millennial types often do in everything?

Just say "No!" to player box coaching.

I guess the idea here is that it should just be the player, out there all alone, depending on only himself. I get that. Still, the player is certainly affected by the crowd.

I don't see it (coaching) as a major factor, but given my preference I'd eliminate it.

So far as the crowd, the player's ability to insulate him/herself from
any negative effects is a part of their talent pool. In a way, it's like being able to play effectively in hot. muggy weather.

Understood. The point I am driving at is singles tennis is a solo sport vs. say, baseball, where the manager frequently converses with the pitcher.

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On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:35:07 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

I'm in the minority on this issue but I don't give a rat's ass if there's legal coaching.

To me, no matter what the coaches yell out or signal, the player still needs to execute it all by him/herself.

I tend to agree. Still, if the player is clinging to a technique that isn't working, like serving to a certain side of the box, the observation of a coach can be a huge asset.

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On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 2:45:43 PM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:35:07 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

I'm in the minority on this issue but I don't give a rat's ass if there's legal coaching.

To me, no matter what the coaches yell out or signal, the player still needs to execute it all by h

I tend to agree. Still, if the player is clinging to a technique that isn't working, like serving to a certain side of the box, the observation of a coach can be a huge asset.

Yes.

For years and years, coaches in the player box had their unique ways of coaching their players, i.e. hand signals, gestures, etc. So my point is, it goes on regardless of the legality of it.

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On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:55:45 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 2:45:43 PM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 11:35:07 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

I'm in the minority on this issue but I don't give a rat's ass if there's legal coaching.

To me, no matter what the coaches yell out or signal, the player still needs to execute it all by h

I tend to agree. Still, if the player is clinging to a technique that isn't working, like serving to a certain side of the box, the observation of a coach can be a huge asset.

Yes.

For years and years, coaches in the player box had their unique ways of coaching their players, i.e. hand signals, gestures, etc. So my point is, it goes on regardless of the legality of it.

Oh, for sure. I will probably get slammed here, but what about the possibility of timeouts in tennis? Just a thought.

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I'm in the minority on this issue but I don't give a rat's ass if there's legal coaching.

To me, no matter what the coaches yell out or signal, the player still needs to execute it all by him/herself.

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bmoore <bmoore@nyx.net> Wrote in message:

I will probably get slammed here, but what about the possibility of timeouts in tennis? Just a thought.

Big no.


In general I opposed coaching but the truth is you can't enforce the coaching ban, they could always use hand signals signals or couriers.

So what's the point?

It's not like they're given plenty of time to discuss tactics and strategy, it all amounts to coach being allowed to scream from the stands, together with thousands of other fans who might even give better advices

I like it now.

No more controversies.




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On 14/09/2023 3:13 am, Sawfish wrote:

On 9/13/23 9:27 AM, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:57:37 AM UTC

I don't see it (coaching) as a major factor, but given my preference I'd eliminate it.

Yes, It should be up to the player to problem solve during a match. The
beauty of the tennis scoring system is it's not time based so you can
always come back and win even if you're losing 6-0 6-0 5-0 40-0 - the
match isn't over at that point, you have to play on and can win from there.


It's possible a player can win a match if they followed their own
instincts and ignored the coaching. Easier just to ban it.

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On Wednesday, 13 September 2023 at 20:35:00 UTC+1, *skriptis wrote:

bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> Wrote in message:

I will probably get slammed here, but what about the possibility of timeouts in tennis? Just a thought.

Big no.

In general I opposed coaching but the truth is you can't enforce the coaching ban, they could always use hand signals signals or couriers.

So what's the point?

It's not like they're given plenty of time to discuss tactics and strategy, it all amounts to coach being allowed to scream from the stands, together with thousands of other fans who might even give better advices

I like it now.

No more controversies.

timeouts is where this is headed next though as the whole idea is to appease these Gen-Z players cos they're so fragile, they'll say timeouts will stop any medical troubles like what Tstsi was doing.

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