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  • Re: LOL, if you beat Djokovic at a slam, he literally eats your liver..

    From Court_1@21:1/5 to Gracchus on Sun Sep 10 13:33:48 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

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  • From Gracchus@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 13:32:49 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gracchus@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 13:35:29 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Gracchus on Sun Sep 10 13:43:49 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Gracchus on Sun Sep 10 13:40:49 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    Goodness me, two backboards going at it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From *skriptis@21:1/5 to olympia0000@yahoo.com on Sun Sep 10 22:44:55 2023
    Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: > > On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: > > > On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:
    31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: > > > > > > > when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!) > > > > > > > Good luck to you, Medvedev! > > > > > It's not quite over yet. ;) > > > I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one
    fairly easily. In three or four.> Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.


    First serve and grinding on HC.


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  • From Gracchus@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 13:47:51 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:43:52 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic?

    Win the USO when Djoke wants the CYGS. :)

    The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.

    Too bad "Daniil" sounds nothing like "booooooo!"

    It is tiresome right now. Assuming Djokovic wins the set, I'm going out for coffee.

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  • From *skriptis@21:1/5 to Gracchus on Sun Sep 10 22:52:30 2023
    Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    Assuming Djokovic wins the set, I'm going out for coffee.


    I've watched the entire Federer - Söderling FO final. I'm a tennis fan.



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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Gracchus on Sun Sep 10 13:50:54 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:47:53 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:43:52 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic?
    Win the USO when Djoke wants the CYGS. :)
    The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    Too bad "Daniil" sounds nothing like "booooooo!"

    It is tiresome right now. Assuming Djokovic wins the set, I'm going out for coffee.

    Medvedev is an error machine today so far.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Gracchus@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 13:54:20 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:50:56 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:47:53 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:43:52 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic?
    Win the USO when Djoke wants the CYGS. :)
    The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    Too bad "Daniil" sounds nothing like "booooooo!"

    It is tiresome right now. Assuming Djokovic wins the set, I'm going out for coffee.

    Medvedev is an error machine today so far.

    Yep, it's like you said yesterday about wanting to see a *contest* no matter who wins. This isn't it.

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  • From Shakes@21:1/5 to Gracchus on Sun Sep 10 13:56:50 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-7, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    Correct. Too bad. I was hoping for a similar intensity from him as in the SF. It's still early in the match though.

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  • From TT@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 00:01:28 2023
    Court_1 kirjoitti 10.9.2023 klo 23.40:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    Goodness me, two backboards going at it.

    No kidding. Bobobobo booring...

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  • From TT@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 00:03:49 2023
    Shakes kirjoitti 10.9.2023 klo 23.56:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-7, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    Correct. Too bad. I was hoping for a similar intensity from him as in the SF. It's still early in the match though.

    The problem is that Meds will be tired soon at this rate and nothing to
    show for it either. Djok has better meds and can run to kingdom come.

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  • From *skriptis@21:1/5 to Shakes on Sun Sep 10 23:06:28 2023
    Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-7, Gracchus wrote:> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: > > I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.> Well when Medvedev gets
    broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.Correct. Too bad. I was hoping for a similar intensity from him as in the SF. It's still early in the match though.



    It's the nerves.

    23 to potentially 24.
    4.3% jump.

    1 to potentially 2.
    100% jump.


    100% nerves vs 4.3%



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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Pelle_Svansl=c3=b6s?=@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 00:14:31 2023
    On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.

    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would
    crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    --
    "And off they went, from here to there,
    The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
    -- Traditional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gapp111@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 14:20:46 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
    On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    --
    "And off they went, from here to there,
    The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
    -- Traditional


    Yes, Djoker looking good!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 14:32:44 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
    On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From TT@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 00:53:39 2023
    TT kirjoitti 11.9.2023 klo 0.03:
    Shakes kirjoitti 10.9.2023 klo 23.56:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-7, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In
    three or four.

    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing
    half the job himself.

    Correct. Too bad. I was hoping for a similar intensity from him as in
    the SF. It's still early in the match though.

    The problem is that Meds will be tired soon at this rate and nothing to
    show for it either. Djok has better meds and can run to kingdom come.

    Ummm... Djokovic looking a bit pooped. Strange. Never seen this before.
    Maybe faking again?

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  • From grif@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 01:24:44 2023
    On 10/09/2023 21:31, Court_1 wrote:
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    He's kinda like Sampras in this regard. https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/us-open-final-preview-novak-djokovic-vs-daniil-medvedev-major-24-atp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 21:14:05 2023
    On 11/09/2023 6:43 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.


    He does a great impersonation of Novak's lockdown mode, but he's not the
    real McCoy. On average Novak can keep it going longer and has more
    firepower. Medvedev played well above his average level so kudos to
    him, good enough to beat everyone except Novak this tournament.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 21:10:47 2023
    On 11/09/2023 6:31 am, Court_1 wrote:
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!


    Yep. still super impressive he can do it at 36!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 21:18:25 2023
    On 11/09/2023 7:32 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
    On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>>>
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!) >>>>>>
    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would
    crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak


    Great serve volley stats today too - think he won 22 of 24 net points?

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Pelle_Svansl=c3=b6s?=@21:1/5 to Whisper on Mon Sep 11 19:51:05 2023
    On 11.9.2023 14.18, Whisper wrote:
    On 11/09/2023 7:32 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote: >>> On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>>>>
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!) >>>>>>>
    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily.
    In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's
    doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The
    first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would >>> crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people
    say his serve is weak


    Great serve volley stats today too - think he won 22 of 24 net points?

    He should do it more. Maybe he will. BUt those numbers are aided by Meds.

    --
    "And off they went, from here to there,
    The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
    -- Traditional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Pelle_Svansl=c3=b6s?=@21:1/5 to Whisper on Mon Sep 11 19:52:10 2023
    On 11.9.2023 14.14, Whisper wrote:
    On 11/09/2023 6:43 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)

    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In
    three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing
    half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first
    serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.


    He does a great impersonation of Novak's lockdown mode, but he's not the
    real McCoy.

    Yep.

    --
    "And off they went, from here to there,
    The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
    -- Traditional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Whisper on Mon Sep 11 11:11:04 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:18:42 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
    On 11/09/2023 7:32 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
    On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>>>
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!) >>>>>>
    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would >> crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak
    Great serve volley stats today too - think he won 22 of 24 net points?

    Yes. The guy is obsessed with improving constantly. He won't be happy until he cuts out the hearts and livers of Nadal/Federer and stomps on those organs until they disintegrate into nothingness.
    All those years of fans treating Nadal/Federer as Gods and considering him the third wheel got to him. Becoming greater is his FU!

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Shakes on Mon Sep 11 11:32:51 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 2:32:47 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak
    Well, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I
    don't know.

    I think it's a weapon, an underrated one. He hits his spots when he needs to most of the time. It's not as good as Federer's serve but it's a fine serve IMO. He's improved it enormously from where it once was. I think Becker was the one who started to
    improve it?

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  • From Shakes@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 11:23:45 2023
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 2:32:47 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak

    Well, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I don'
    t know.

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  • From *skriptis@21:1/5 to Shakes on Mon Sep 11 20:35:03 2023
    Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 2:32:47 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:> > Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would > > crush it like he crushes
    Borg's serve.> Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weakWell, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as
    Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I don't know.


    One explanation is that he still considers serve as a preparation for point and not as a primary weapon?

    Just as classic s/v guys used kick serve to set up volleys, maybe for Djokovic it's similar, he knows his bread and butter is baseline game and expanding too much energy while serving or relying on serve too much would mess up with his ground game or
    bring him in uncomfortable situations.

    E.g. big serve can bring you free point, but it's also possible you'd get a big return off of it? And stuff like that, which then changes the entire dynamics.

    Maybe it's not something he wants.

    Additionally, it's easier to be in one state of mind the whole time, his state of mind is that hd needs to dominate baseline.

    Going back and forth, I'm going to dominate on my serve and then in return game, I'll again focus on my ground game could be bad for him.


    Or he could protect or spare his elbow?


    He certainly could serve bigger and with higher percentages. I assume he could?




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  • From grif@21:1/5 to Shakes on Mon Sep 11 19:49:14 2023
    On 11/09/2023 19:23, Shakes wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 2:32:47 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would >>> crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak

    Well, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I
    don't know.

    The ATP has Djoker listed as 6'2" and Alcaraz as 6'. They may not be that accurate. I think the ATP had Alcaraz listed even higher at 6'1" previously. Alcaraz is probably just under 6'.
    https://www.celebheights.com/s/Carlos-Alcaraz-53144.html

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  • From Shakes@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 12:50:42 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:32:53 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

    Well, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I
    don't know.
    I think it's a weapon, an underrated one. He hits his spots when he needs to most of the time. It's not as good as Federer's serve but it's a fine serve IMO. He's improved it enormously from where it once was. I think Becker was the one who started to
    improve it?

    Fair enough. Yes, there was a time when Todd Martin worked with him and ruined it (made the serve regress from the early-Djok version). Becker certainly helped move it in the right direction.

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  • From Sawfish@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 13:06:08 2023
    On 9/11/23 11:35 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 2:32:47 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:> > Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would > > crush it like he crushes
    Borg's serve.> Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weakWell, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as
    Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I don't know.

    One explanation is that he still considers serve as a preparation for point and not as a primary weapon?

    Just as classic s/v guys used kick serve to set up volleys, maybe for Djokovic it's similar, he knows his bread and butter is baseline game and expanding too much energy while serving or relying on serve too much would mess up with his ground game or
    bring him in uncomfortable situations.

    First, I think he has a very effective, but not showy, serve. It is not overpowering in the sense that Shelton, Berrettini, Kyrgios, etc. have overwhelming serves.

    And all serves are a combination of attributes, two of which are speed
    and placement. There are others, but I think these two are the primary attributes.

    Djokovich has adequate speed, with *excellent* placement, he varies the
    pace purposefully, also, and I strongly suspect that he somehow
    disguises how/where he delivers each serve, so while you seldom go "Wow.
    No one could get that serve..." like you might with Kyrgios or Shelton,
    he certainly does get some cleanly past his opponent, and I think they
    are often somewhat off-balance on the return, and of course, as you
    mention, if they get the ball back, they have to face one of the very
    best, most consistent baseliners ever to play the game.

    There's an interesting aspect about S&V type serves. If you go for a rocket-type first serve, your normal follow thru (if you are a confirmed
    old school S&V player) takes you into the court maybe two solid steps
    anyway, and you simply follow it in. But as I think you have pointed
    out, if the returner hits even a moderately good return--not necessarily
    a burner--you will not have time to get as close to the net as is
    optimal. You will have to play a low volley from not quite to the
    service box on your side.

    So contrary to intuition, often you will throw in a first serve kicker
    (or wide slice to the deuce), simply to give you time enough to get
    inside the service box, or closer to it, so that the first volley will
    be more playable.

    But going back to serving hard burners, what you are thinking as you
    serve and as you first come in is: "It's an ace, or a service winner, or
    a weak, high return...".  If you don't think that, you should not be
    playing S&V.

    Toward the end of when I played singles, and my speed had dropped off, I
    served either hard flat (such as it was by then), or a kicker, directly
    at the returner, as best I could. So by then very few aces, but many unassertive, often high, returns.

    This worked OK against many club-level players. Of course you vary the placement somewhat, to keep them honest, but right at them became bread
    and butter, whereas flat pace had been bread and butter before.

    At least that was my experience.


    E.g. big serve can bring you free point, but it's also possible you'd get a big return off of it? And stuff like that, which then changes the entire dynamics.

    Maybe it's not something he wants.

    Additionally, it's easier to be in one state of mind the whole time, his state of mind is that hd needs to dominate baseline.

    Going back and forth, I'm going to dominate on my serve and then in return game, I'll again focus on my ground game could be bad for him.


    Or he could protect or spare his elbow?


    He certainly could serve bigger and with higher percentages. I assume he could?
    One thing for sure: he knows what the hell he's doing.





    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "To the average American or Englishman the very name of anarchy causes a shudder, because it invariably conjures up a picture of a land terrorized by low-browed assassins with matted beards, carrying bombs in one hand and mugs of beer in the other. But
    as a matter of fact, there is no reason whatever to believe that, if all laws were abolished tomorrow, such swine would survive the day."

    --H. L. Mencken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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  • From Shakes@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 12:58:14 2023
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:35:06 AM UTC-7, *skriptis wrote:
    Shakes <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
    Well, I wouldn't say it's weak. But it's definitely not a weapon that I would expect from a 6' 3" guy. He doesn't get as many aces, unreturnables as Fed does (even though Fed is a couple of inches shorter). Maybe it's the pace, maybe the disguise, I
    don't know.


    One explanation is that he still considers serve as a preparation for point and not as a primary weapon?

    Just as classic s/v guys used kick serve to set up volleys, maybe for Djokovic it's similar, he knows his bread and butter is baseline game and expanding too much energy while serving or relying on serve too much would mess up with his ground game or
    bring him in uncomfortable situations.

    E.g. big serve can bring you free point, but it's also possible you'd get a big return off of it? And stuff like that, which then changes the entire dynamics.


    Good point, but I think that's more a danger for S/V'ers.

    Maybe it's not something he wants.

    Additionally, it's easier to be in one state of mind the whole time, his state of mind is that hd needs to dominate baseline.

    Going back and forth, I'm going to dominate on my serve and then in return game, I'll again focus on my ground game could be bad for him.


    Or he could protect or spare his elbow?


    He certainly could serve bigger and with higher percentages. I assume he could?
    --



    Good points. Though I do think he makes things more difficult for himself sometimes when he plays those long rallies time and again. But, hey, who am I to argue against his success. :)

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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 12 19:15:46 2023
    On 12/09/2023 4:11 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:18:42 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
    On 11/09/2023 7:32 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote: >>>> On 10.9.2023 23.43, Court_1 wrote:
    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote: >>>>>>>>
    when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!) >>>>>>>>
    Good luck to you, Medvedev!

    It's not quite over yet. ;)

    I know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.
    Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.

    The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.
    He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.

    Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would >>>> crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.

    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak
    Great serve volley stats today too - think he won 22 of 24 net points?

    Yes. The guy is obsessed with improving constantly. He won't be happy until he cuts out the hearts and livers of Nadal/Federer and stomps on those organs until they disintegrate into nothingness.
    All those years of fans treating Nadal/Federer as Gods and considering him the third wheel got to him. Becoming greater is his FU!


    Absolutely. It's awesome.

    I always doubted Novak too. I always had Nadal as the best of the big
    3, thinking if they all played their best Rafa would win most of the
    time. I finally concluded Novak is probably the best after that 2019 AO
    final where Novak put him to the sword 63 62 63. There was no other
    excuse or explanation. Nadal was in the best form I'd ever seen from
    him on a hard court, storming into the final without losing a set. I
    thought Novak had very little chance of winning. You can only use
    luck/fluke as an excuse for so long, after a while it becomes silly when
    you're confronted with the facts, and you just accept the truth. In the
    early days I had Federer as better than Novak too. That's the beauty of tennis. It's 1 on 1 and you can prove everyone wrong if you keep
    winning. I'm sure even PWL types will admit it too, eventually.

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  • From *skriptis@21:1/5 to Whisper on Tue Sep 12 12:25:47 2023
    Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 12/09/2023 4:11 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:18:42 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 11/09/2023 7:32 am, Court_1 wrote:>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:>>>> On 10.9.2023 23.43,
    Court_1 wrote:>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:35:31 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:33:51 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 4:32:51 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:>>>>>>>> On
    Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:31:33 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you play him again at the next slam(unless you're Wawrinka!)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck to you, Medvedev!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not quite over yet. ;)>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
    know but I have a feeling Djokovic gets this one fairly easily. In three or four.>>>>>> Well when Medvedev gets broken with four straight errors, he's doing half the job himself.>>>>>>>>>> The problem is, what does Medvedev do better than Djokovic? The
    first serve is all I can see where Medvedev is superior.>>>> He's better with only the mileage. All percentages favour Djok.>>>>>>>> Djok's serve is the most underrated serve in tennis. I bet sawfish would>>>> crush it like he crushes Borg's serve.>>>>>>
    Djokovic has improved his serve so much. I don't know how some people say his serve is weak>> Great serve volley stats today too - think he won 22 of 24 net points?> > Yes. The guy is obsessed with improving constantly. He won't be happy until he cuts
    out the hearts and livers of Nadal/Federer and stomps on those organs until they disintegrate into nothingness.> All those years of fans treating Nadal/Federer as Gods and considering him the third wheel got to him. Becoming greater is his FU!Absolutely.
    It's awesome.I always doubted Novak too. I always had Nadal as the best of the big 3, thinking if they all played their best Rafa would win most of the time. I finally concluded Novak is probably the best after that 2019 AO final where Novak put him to
    the sword 63 62 63. There was no other excuse or explanation. Nadal was in the best form I'd ever seen from him on a hard court, storming into the final without losing a set. I thought Novak had very little chance of winning. You can only use luck/
    fluke as an excuse for so long, after a while it becomes silly when you're confronted with the facts, and you just accept the truth. In the early days I had Federer as better than Novak too. That's the beauty of tennis. It's 1 on 1 and you can prove
    everyone wrong if you keep winning. I'm sure even PWL types will admit it too, eventually.



    Nadal's game is very physical dependant. Yes he improved over the years in various aspects but it's also a compensation. Remember once he got old, he even started losing to Federer in slams. Previously unthinkable.

    Nadal of 2019 is Nadal in his early 30s, not the Nadal of his early 20s.

    In his early 20s, he could return more, catch more, run more, reach more. He was more potent and a bigger threat to Federer or Djokovic.

    2012 AO is best example, it came down to a few points over the course of 6 hours. The way they exchanged that and 2013 FO semi tells you they were almost even, with couple of points deciding outcomes on their favorite surfaces. Djokovic at AO and Nadal
    at FO.

    It's really splitting hairs.



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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 12 20:42:06 2023
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)