• The Mcenroe brothers on Federer in 2013

    From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 22 00:20:45 2023
    John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get over."

    “Not only does he have to worry about the big three guys, who there is no doubt they’d be favorites against him on a hard court, and even more of a favorite I think in best-of-five simply because they’re younger,” Patrick McEnroe said.

    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like he’s been
    able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    "So that he got a little bit older he would want to shorten points, to attack more. What it appears to me is that he doesn’t believe in his movement well enough."

    https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/mcenroe-brothers-weigh-in-on-federer-s-troubles


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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 19:16:46 2023
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get over."

    “Not only does he have to worry about the big three guys, who there is no doubt they’d be favorites against him on a hard court, and even more of a favorite I think in best-of-five simply because they’re younger,” Patrick McEnroe said.

    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like
    he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    "So that he got a little bit older he would want to shorten points, to attack more. What it appears to me is that he doesn’t believe in his movement well enough."

    https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/mcenroe-brothers-weigh-in-on-federer-s-troubles




    Keep these coming - very entertaining : )

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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 19:20:08 2023
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get >over."


    I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him
    to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket science working out who the
    better and greater player is.

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  • From The Iceberg@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 03:50:23 2023
    On Tuesday, 22 August 2023 at 05:20:53 UTC+1, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get over."

    “Not only does he have to worry about the big three guys, who there is no doubt they’d be favorites against him on a hard court, and even more of a favorite I think in best-of-five simply because they’re younger,” Patrick McEnroe said.

    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like
    he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    "So that he got a little bit older he would want to shorten points, to attack more. What it appears to me is that he doesn’t believe in his movement well enough."

    https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/mcenroe-brothers-weigh-in-on-federer-s-troubles

    two points
    1) you need to add in that Fed became a Dad to twins in 2009
    2) Fed is the only player have never seen fall over, cos of his balance, his balance is naturally exceptional about Djoker and even Nadal.

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  • From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to Whisper on Tue Aug 22 09:29:14 2023
    Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a
    little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket science working out who the better and greater player is.

    Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.
    --




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  • From Sawfish@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 08:30:47 2023
    On 8/21/23 9:20 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like
    he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like
    he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    I think that's a really good description of the observable details of an aging player. It describes what I started to see in Rafa a few years back--not quite there, reaching more and more often, with the resultant drop in consistency.

    It's what I'm beginning to see in Djok.

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Wed Aug 23 01:34:59 2023
    On 22/08/2023 11:29 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they
    take a little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket science working out who the better and greater player is.

    Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.


    Nope, we've seen Novak 'drained' many times, eg this yr AO yet he only
    lost 1 set whole tournament lol. If calendar slam wasn't on the line
    Novak would have found a way to grind Medvedev down even if he was very
    tired. He just couldn't get the significance of a calendar slam out of
    his mind to be able to perform to his normal level. Age had fuck all to
    do with it, he's 2 years older today ffs and coulda almost won calendar
    slam this yr.

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  • From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to Whisper on Tue Aug 22 13:02:33 2023
    Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 11:29 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r>> On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and
    physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket
    science working out who the better and greater player is.> > Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.Nope, we've seen Novak 'drained' many times, eg this yr AO yet he only lost 1 set whole tournament lol. If calendar slam wasn't on
    the line Novak would have found a way to grind Medvedev down even if he was very tired. He just couldn't get the significance of a calendar slam out of his mind to be able to perform to his normal level. Age had fuck all to do with it, he's 2 years
    older today ffs and coulda almost won calendar slam this yr.

    He was tired, this is what he said:

    "The other hand, I was just below par with my game. My legs were not there. I was trying. I did my best. Yeah, I made a lot of unforced errors. I didn't have -- no serve really."

    Do you want me to translate the meaning of "my legs were not there"?


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  • From gapp111@gmail.com@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 11:04:23 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:02:23 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 11:29 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r>> On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll
    and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket
    science working out who the better and greater player is.> > Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.Nope, we've seen Novak 'drained' many times, eg this yr AO yet he only lost 1 set whole tournament lol. If calendar slam wasn't on
    the line Novak would have found a way to grind Medvedev down even if he was very tired. He just couldn't get the significance of a calendar slam out of his mind to be able to perform to his normal level. Age had fuck all to do with it, he's 2 years older
    today ffs and coulda almost won calendar slam this yr.

    He was tired, this is what he said:

    "The other hand, I was just below par with my game. My legs were not there. I was trying. I did my best. Yeah, I made a lot of unforced errors. I didn't have -- no serve really."

    Do you want me to translate the meaning of "my legs were not there"?
    --




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    He did make a lot of unforced errors into the net surprisingly for him!

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  • From me@21:1/5 to Whisper on Tue Aug 22 11:32:54 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 4:35:17 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
    On 22/08/2023 11:29 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they
    take a little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket science working out who the better and greater player is.

    Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.
    Nope, we've seen Novak 'drained' many times, eg this yr AO yet he only
    lost 1 set whole tournament lol. If calendar slam wasn't on the line
    Novak would have found a way to grind Medvedev down even if he was very tired. He just couldn't get the significance of a calendar slam out of
    his mind to be able to perform to his normal level. Age had fuck all to
    do with it, he's 2 years older today ffs and coulda almost won calendar
    slam this yr.

    Agree with this. We have seen both Djokovic and Serena fall with the CYGS in their sights. The main reason the CYGS is so much harder than the NCYGS is not that you get less opportunities but because of the huge prestige and significance which the
    presents a massive mental hurdle to any player - even super tough players like the above.

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 20:38:10 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:20:53 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get over."

    “Not only does he have to worry about the big three guys, who there is no doubt they’d be favorites against him on a hard court, and even more of a favorite I think in best-of-five simply because they’re younger,” Patrick McEnroe said.

    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like
    he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    "So that he got a little bit older he would want to shorten points, to attack more. What it appears to me is that he doesn’t believe in his movement well enough."

    https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/mcenroe-brothers-weigh-in-on-federer-s-troubles


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    For goodness sake, you're pulling out a 2013 interview with John McEnroe of all people? First of all, Federer went on to win slams after 2013. He wasn't washed up. Secondly, John McEnroe is insufferable. Talk about projecting, he's the master. He was
    washed up himself at age 25 and since he's a narcissist, he wants to believe that all other great players are finished at 25-30. The reality in 2023 however is something completely different. If you interview John McEnroe today, he won't be saying
    athletes are done at age 25-30! The narrative has vastly changed.

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Tue Aug 22 20:42:29 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:29:21 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they
    take a little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket science working out who the better and greater player is.
    Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.

    Drained from the pressure of a CYGS. There's a reason why it's the hardest achievement in the sport.
    He was ONE match away from a CYGS but according to you he was decrepit. LOL. Meanwhile, in 2023, Djokovic was also on his way to a CYGS. Hardly indicative of being done for.

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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 19:02:38 2023
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 19:03:38 2023
    T24gMjMvMDgvMjAyMyAzOjAyIGFtLCBQZXRlV2FzTHVja3kgd3JvdGU6DQo+IFdoaXNwZXIg PHdoaXNwZXJAb3plbWFpbC5jb20uYXU+IFdyb3RlIGluIG1lc3NhZ2U6cg0KPj4gT24gMjIv MDgvMjAyMyAxMToyOSBwbSwgUGV0ZVdhc0x1Y2t5IHdyb3RlOj4gV2hpc3BlciA8d2hpc3Bl ckBvemVtYWlsLmNvbS5hdT4gV3JvdGUgaW4gbWVzc2FnZTpyPj4gT24gMjIvMDgvMjAyMyAy OjIwIHBtLCBQZXRlV2FzTHVja3kgd3JvdGU6PiBKb2huIE1jRW5yb2Ugc2FpZCBpbiBhbiBF U1BOIGNvbmZlcmVuY2UgY2FsbC4g4oCcT2J2aW91c2x5IHdoZW4geW91IGdldCBpbnRvIHlv dXIgMzBzIHRlbm5pcyB0YWtlcyBpdHMgdG9sbCBhbmQgcGh5c2ljYWxseSBzdGFydHMgdG8g c2xvdyB5b3UgZG93bi4gVGhvc2UgaW5qdXJpZXMgY3JvcCB1cCBhIGxpdHRsZSBiaXQgbW9y ZSBvZnRlbiBhbmQgdGhleSB0YWtlIGEgbGl0dGxlIGJpdCBsb25nZXIgdG8gZ2V0ID5vdmVy LiI+IEkgYWNjZXB0IGJlaW5nIDMwIHdhcyBhIGh1Z2UgcHJvYmxlbSBmb3IgUm9nZXIuICBG b3IgTm92YWsgd2UgZXhwZWN0IGhpbSB0byB3aW4gY2FsZW5kYXIgc2xhbSBhdCAzNi4gSXQn cyBub3Qgcm9ja2V0IHNjaWVuY2Ugd29ya2luZyBvdXQgd2hvIHRoZSBiZXR0ZXIgYW5kIGdy ZWF0ZXIgcGxheWVyIGlzLj4gPiBFeHBlY3QgaGltIHRvIHdpbiBidXQgaGUgZmFpbGVkIHRv IHdpbiBiZWNhdXNlIGhlIHdhcyBkcmFpbmVkLk5vcGUsIHdlJ3ZlIHNlZW4gTm92YWsgJ2Ry YWluZWQnIG1hbnkgdGltZXMsIGVnIHRoaXMgeXIgQU8geWV0IGhlIG9ubHkgbG9zdCAxIHNl dCB3aG9sZSB0b3VybmFtZW50IGxvbC4gSWYgY2FsZW5kYXIgc2xhbSB3YXNuJ3Qgb24gdGhl IGxpbmUgTm92YWsgd291bGQgaGF2ZSBmb3VuZCBhIHdheSB0byBncmluZCBNZWR2ZWRldiBk b3duIGV2ZW4gaWYgaGUgd2FzIHZlcnkgdGlyZWQuICBIZSBqdXN0IGNvdWxkbid0IGdldCB0 aGUgc2lnbmlmaWNhbmNlIG9mIGEgY2FsZW5kYXIgc2xhbSBvdXQgb2YgaGlzIG1pbmQgdG8g YmUgYWJsZSB0byBwZXJmb3JtIHRvIGhpcyBub3JtYWwgbGV2ZWwuICBBZ2UgaGFkIGZ1Y2sg YWxsIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggaXQsIGhlJ3MgMiB5ZWFycyBvbGRlciB0b2RheSBmZnMgYW5kIGNv dWxkYSBhbG1vc3Qgd29uIGNhbGVuZGFyIHNsYW0gdGhpcyB5ci4NCj4gDQo+IEhlIHdhcyB0 aXJlZCwgdGhpcyBpcyB3aGF0IGhlIHNhaWQ6DQo+IA0KPiAiVGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbmQsIEkg d2FzIGp1c3QgYmVsb3cgcGFyIHdpdGggbXkgZ2FtZS4gTXkgbGVncyB3ZXJlIG5vdCB0aGVy ZS4gSSB3YXMgdHJ5aW5nLiBJIGRpZCBteSBiZXN0LiBZZWFoLCBJIG1hZGUgYSBsb3Qgb2Yg dW5mb3JjZWQgZXJyb3JzLiBJIGRpZG4ndCBoYXZlIC0tIG5vIHNlcnZlIHJlYWxseS4iDQo+ IA0KPiBEbyB5b3Ugd2FudCBtZSB0byB0cmFuc2xhdGUgdGhlIG1lYW5pbmcgb2YgIm15IGxl Z3Mgd2VyZSBub3QgdGhlcmUiPw0KPiANCj4gDQoNCg0KRG8geW91IHJlbWVtYmVyIHdoYXQg aGUgc2FpZCBhZnRlciB0aGFuIDYgaG91ciBBTyBmaW5hbCB2IE5hZGFsIGluIDIwMTIgDQp3 aGVuIGhlIHdhcyBhdCBoaXMgJ3BlYWsnPw0KDQo6ICkNCg0KDQo=

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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 19:12:08 2023
    On 23/08/2023 1:38 pm, Court_1 wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:20:53 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they take a little bit longer to get over."


    For goodness sake, you're pulling out a 2013 interview with John McEnroe of all people? First of all, Federer went on to win slams after 2013. He wasn't washed up. Secondly, John McEnroe is insufferable. Talk about projecting, he's the master. He was
    washed up himself at age 25 and since he's a narcissist, he wants to believe that all other great players are finished at 25-30. The reality in 2023 however is something completely different. If you interview John McEnroe today, he won't be saying
    athletes are done at age 25-30! The narrative has vastly changed.


    I think end of the day PWL is harmless. He's just guilty of verbalizing
    his strange ideas, there are a lot of nutso fans out there but we don't
    get to hear what they really think - many would make PWL seem sane, prob
    lots of nutso Novak fans would be even worse. At least PWL puts it on
    the line, and it has entertainment value : )

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  • From The Iceberg@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 02:29:20 2023
    On Tuesday, 22 August 2023 at 19:32:56 UTC+1, me wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 4:35:17 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
    On 22/08/2023 11:29 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 22/08/2023 2:20 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:> John McEnroe said in an ESPN conference call. “Obviously when you get into your 30s tennis takes its toll and physically starts to slow you down. Those injuries crop up a little bit more often and they
    take a little bit longer to get >over."> I accept being 30 was a huge problem for Roger. For Novak we expect him to win calendar slam at 36. It's not rocket science working out who the better and greater player is.

    Expect him to win but he failed to win because he was drained.
    Nope, we've seen Novak 'drained' many times, eg this yr AO yet he only lost 1 set whole tournament lol. If calendar slam wasn't on the line
    Novak would have found a way to grind Medvedev down even if he was very tired. He just couldn't get the significance of a calendar slam out of
    his mind to be able to perform to his normal level. Age had fuck all to
    do with it, he's 2 years older today ffs and coulda almost won calendar slam this yr.
    Agree with this. We have seen both Djokovic and Serena fall with the CYGS in their sights. The main reason the CYGS is so much harder than the NCYGS is not that you get less opportunities but because of the huge prestige and significance which the
    presents a massive mental hurdle to any player - even super tough players like the above.

    Serena didn't get anywhere near as Djoker!

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  • From The Iceberg@21:1/5 to Sawfish on Wed Aug 23 02:28:19 2023
    On Tuesday, 22 August 2023 at 16:30:51 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
    On 8/21/23 9:20 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem
    like he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."

    “One of the things you notice a little bit is possibly he’s slowed down a little bit. The balance and the movement are not quite as they were in the past. So he’s reaching for more balls and therefore mishitting more shots. It doesn’t seem like
    he’s been able or willing to make that adjustment where he’s got to either play safer or take that extra step to balls. That’s very difficult to do as you get older."
    I think that's a really good description of the observable details of an aging player. It describes what I started to see in Rafa a few years back--not quite there, reaching more and more often, with the resultant drop in consistency.

    It's what I'm beginning to see in Djok.

    when did you see this in Djoker's 4.5hour long 3 set match vs 20 year old Alcaraz?

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  • From MBDunc@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 24 23:40:09 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:32:56 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
    Agree with this. We have seen both Djokovic and Serena fall with the CYGS in their sights. The main reason the CYGS is so much harder than the NCYGS is not that you get less opportunities but because of the huge prestige and significance which the
    presents a massive mental hurdle to any player - even super tough players like the above.

    To be fair. Serena failed vs (in theory) inferior opponent.

    Djoker lost to Meds who at HC is proven tier1 of current crop. (USO, YEC, tons of titles, reached #1 solely on HC play creds) . A bit like Hoad's loss to Rosewall 1956 USO,.

    .mikko

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  • From *skriptis@21:1/5 to MBDunc on Fri Aug 25 10:45:17 2023
    MBDunc <michaelb@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:r
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:32:56 PM UTC+3, me wrote:> Agree with this. We have seen both Djokovic and Serena fall with the CYGS in their sights. The main reason the CYGS is so much harder than the NCYGS is not that you get less opportunities
    but because of the huge prestige and significance which the presents a massive mental hurdle to any player - even super tough players like the above.To be fair. Serena failed vs (in theory) inferior opponent.Djoker lost to Meds who at HC is proven tier1
    of current crop. (USO, YEC, tons of titles, reached #1 solely on HC play creds) . A bit like Hoad's loss to Rosewall 1956 USO,..mikko



    Also Medvedev is a Russian.



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