On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden

fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden

fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 17:57:09 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's downfall.

what do you think happens if you hire endless random people in a company? yes, wokeness highly likely did it, just like with Disney.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden

fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's downfall.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12.8.2023 20.08, The Iceberg wrote:

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 17:57:09 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden

fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's downfall.

what do you think happens if you hire endless random people in a company? yes, wokeness highly likely did it, just like with Disney.

Lol.

The reasons Nokia failed have nothing to do with identity, nationality
and, lol, wokeness. Nokia became complacent, slow, and couldn't keep up
with others. It waffled years with Symbian, a dog. Some people at Nokia
thought touch screens were for morons. Apple's early phone efforts were ridiculed at Nokia. All-Finn overconfidence.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden

fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct. Immigration does not really help companies and in
its current form it downright destroys western economies & societies
from within.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden

fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol. Nokia does its own recruiting and
hires worldwide. If there is something to be deduced from this, it's
that Nokia in fact imports furriners itself.

Boo hoo hoo!

Immigration does not really help companies

Really, Tiny. You should stick to the 24/7 Nadal fannieing.

and in
its current form it downright destroys western economies & societies
from within.

You're fully versed in the supremacist lingo, that much is clear. As for
the rest, well, ... lol.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 12.19:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on
top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in.

Not really. Elop ran it down and sold cheap to Microsoft.

"During Elop's tenure, Nokia's stock price dropped 62%, their mobile
phone market share was halved, their smartphone market share fell from
33% to 3%, and the company suffered a cumulative €4.9 billion loss."

-

"When Stephen Elop took the reins of Nokia (NYSE:NOK), the company was
flying high, contrary to what Americans may think. The company had 60%
market share in smartphones, was selling over half a billion phones, and
had potentially the next best thing in its pipeline. Granted, Nokia's
U.S. operations were non-existent and the past CEO was ousted for poor performance, but I would trade poor performance with the 300 million
consumers in the U.S. for being the leading cell phone maker for the
other 6.7 billion people in the world. That is exactly where Nokia was
on April 22, 2010, when Stephen Elop came to the show."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-destroyed-nokia

-

Stephen Elop wasn’t a Trojan horse brought in from Microsoft to
undermine Nokia - but he was “one of the world’s worst” chief executives

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/08/nokia-stephen-elop-operation-new-book

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13.8.2023 14.40, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 12.19:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on
top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused
Nokia's downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in.

Not really. Elop ran it down and sold cheap to Microsoft.

"During Elop's tenure, Nokia's stock price dropped 62%,

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NOK/nokia/stock-price-history

Lolski. Nokia's stock was halved in one year post 2007. That's when
reality hit. By the time it was 2010, it was too late, and Microsoft was
what was left. An All-Finn Ollila decision.

Granted, Nokia's
U.S. operations were non-existent and the past CEO was ousted for poor performance,

The ousted CEO, Kallasvuo, an All-Finn who couldn't come up with
decisions and was fired consequently. Ollila (then head of the board)
couldn't either. The search for a new CEO was started long before
Kallasvuo was fired. By this time, Nokia was a dead duck. Despite the deceptively good sales in countries where text messaging was a bigus dealus.

If you're after culprits, Ollila and the Nokia organisation is a much
better candidate than Elop.

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed. Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to
make attracting talent even harder! Morons.

:(

but I would trade poor performance with the 300 million
consumers in the U.S. for being the leading cell phone maker for the
other 6.7 billion people in the world. That is exactly where Nokia was
on April 22, 2010, when Stephen Elop came to the show."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-destroyed-nokia

A disturbing lack of vision even with the benefit of hindsight. The 6.7B
would soon switch from text messaging to browsing.

Nokia didn't have the touch screens, the OS, and most of all, missed the
boat on intwernet services. Nokia wasn't a programming/services platform
as the iPhone and later Android were. It was Jobs who said this to
Kallasvuo in 2009. In two years since the iPhone, Nokia was not
considered a competitor anymore at Apple. With Symbian terminally on the drawing board, turning the engineering oriented Nokia into a services
oriented Nokia was never in the cards.

Hence, Microsoft. But you know what they say about two turkeys.
Microsoft was an All-Finn pressing of the panic button in an All-Finn
caused panic.

Stephen Elop wasn’t a Trojan horse brought in from Microsoft to
undermine Nokia -

You said he was! Duhski!

but he was “one of the world’s worst” chief executives

Without having had Microsoft there to buy the phone operations, there
would not be a Nokia anymore. There was value in Elop. Not the value
that was then thought he would bring in. Value nevertheless.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 10:19:03 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

we're meant to believe Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft would've bought an overvalued Nokia, for what purposely exactly? hey Bill we're buying Nokia to take on Apple, yeah when Blackberry was out there in the same situation, duh.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol. Nokia does its own recruiting and
hires worldwide. If there is something to be deduced from this, it's
that Nokia in fact imports furriners itself.

obviously that's where they went wrong.

Boo hoo hoo!

Immigration does not really help companies

Really, Tiny. You should stick to the 24/7 Nadal fannieing.

and in
its current form it downright destroys western economies & societies
from within.

You're fully versed in the supremacist lingo, that much is clear. As for
the rest, well, ... lol.

you're fully versed in leftist misinformation and distraction, but that doesn't work here, you have to have some proof instead of just calling people names, you maroon, especially when even yourself has had to admit immigrants bring zero economic
benefits "we have to wait for them to catch up" as you did a couple of months ago.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 19:06:58 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 12.8.2023 20.08, The Iceberg wrote:

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 17:57:09 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's downfall.

what do you think happens if you hire endless random people in a company? yes, wokeness highly likely did it, just like with Disney.

Lol.

The reasons Nokia failed have nothing to do with identity, nationality
and, lol, wokeness. Nokia became complacent, slow, and couldn't keep up
with others. It waffled years with Symbian, a dog. Some people at Nokia thought touch screens were for morons. Apple's early phone efforts were ridiculed at Nokia. All-Finn overconfidence.

oh yes yet again it's a total coincidence that the timelines fit with immigration. Just like how it's a total coincidence that there was zero trouble in the Ukraine during all the years Trump was there, in fact zero sign of any trouble happening at all,
then suddenly totally randomly Biden gets in power and within a year or so a war happens there with Russia! it also totally coincidence that skrip and I warned you this would happen LOL

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 14:37:12 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 14.40, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 12.19:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on >>>>>>> top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused
Nokia's downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in.

Not really. Elop ran it down and sold cheap to Microsoft.

"During Elop's tenure, Nokia's stock price dropped 62%,

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NOK/nokia/stock-price-history

Lolski. Nokia's stock was halved in one year post 2007. That's when
reality hit. By the time it was 2010, it was too late, and Microsoft was what was left. An All-Finn Ollila decision.

so companies can't be turned around?! the whole problem was they had hired a bad Finn previously (Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo*) and then even worse hired a foreigner who had zero loyalty to the company and was an awful CEO who was prob wined and dined by Steve
Balmer to get a nice cheap deal.

* = In January 2013, it was announced that Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was the new Chairman of the board for Zenterio AB, a Swedish TV software company.[5] Zenterio AB declared bankruptcy in July 2019[6] and in February 2020, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was sued in
court for the amount of 44 million Swedish crowns for his actions as Chairman of Zenterio

Granted, Nokia's
U.S. operations were non-existent and the past CEO was ousted for poor performance,

The ousted CEO, Kallasvuo, an All-Finn who couldn't come up with
decisions and was fired consequently. Ollila (then head of the board) couldn't either. The search for a new CEO was started long before
Kallasvuo was fired. By this time, Nokia was a dead duck. Despite the deceptively good sales in countries where text messaging was a bigus dealus.

Nokia wasn't a dead duck otherwise MS wouldn't have bought them, they had a lot to offer - an amazing brand name back then.

If you're after culprits, Ollila and the Nokia organisation is a much
better candidate than Elop.

Elop wrecked them for his own gains, he even got a $6M sign-up bonus.

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed. Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to
make attracting talent even harder! Morons.

:(

more lies, there's always more than enough home-grown talent in places like England and Finland, look at the UK's RISC which is in every mobile phone.

but I would trade poor performance with the 300 million
consumers in the U.S. for being the leading cell phone maker for the
other 6.7 billion people in the world. That is exactly where Nokia was
on April 22, 2010, when Stephen Elop came to the show."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-destroyed-nokia

A disturbing lack of vision even with the benefit of hindsight. The 6.7B would soon switch from text messaging to browsing.

Nokia didn't have the touch screens, the OS, and most of all, missed the boat on intwernet services. Nokia wasn't a programming/services platform
as the iPhone and later Android were. It was Jobs who said this to
Kallasvuo in 2009. In two years since the iPhone, Nokia was not
considered a competitor anymore at Apple. With Symbian terminally on the drawing board, turning the engineering oriented Nokia into a services oriented Nokia was never in the cards.
Hence, Microsoft. But you know what they say about two turkeys.
Microsoft was an All-Finn pressing of the panic button in an All-Finn
caused panic.

how did it work out for Microsoft with all their silicon valley talent? LOL

Stephen Elop wasn’t a Trojan horse brought in from Microsoft to undermine Nokia -

You said he was! Duhski!

but he was “one of the world’s worst” chief executives

Without having had Microsoft there to buy the phone operations, there
would not be a Nokia anymore. There was value in Elop. Not the value
that was then thought he would bring in. Value nevertheless.

yes there would be, just as there is now. Elop was useless and an incredibly bad CEO, should've hired a native Finn who would've had loyalty to the brand.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13.8.2023 17.39, The Iceberg wrote:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 14:37:12 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 14.40, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 12.19:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on >>>>>>>>> top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused
Nokia's downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in.

Not really. Elop ran it down and sold cheap to Microsoft.

"During Elop's tenure, Nokia's stock price dropped 62%,

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NOK/nokia/stock-price-history

Lolski. Nokia's stock was halved in one year post 2007. That's when
reality hit. By the time it was 2010, it was too late, and Microsoft was
what was left. An All-Finn Ollila decision.

so companies can't be turned around?! the whole problem was they had hired a bad Finn previously (Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo*) and then even worse hired a foreigner who had zero loyalty to the company and was an awful CEO who was prob wined and dined by

Steve Balmer to get a nice cheap deal.


Nokia was, and probably still is, great in wired/wireless networking, logistics, manufacturing kind of stuff. That's cool if you want to build commodity phones cheap. Once the iPhone emerged, the time for dumb
hardware was over. Just as it was earlier in commodity PCs. That
requires software, and Nokia wasn't really a software company. Even in hindsight, the speed of the development is astonishing.

The phone manufacturing Nokia wasn't destroyed by drag queen story hours.

* = In January 2013, it was announced that Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was the new Chairman of the board for Zenterio AB, a Swedish TV software company.[5] Zenterio AB declared bankruptcy in July 2019[6] and in February 2020, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was sued in

court for the amount of 44 million Swedish crowns for his actions as Chairman of Zenterio

Granted, Nokia's
U.S. operations were non-existent and the past CEO was ousted for poor
performance,

The ousted CEO, Kallasvuo, an All-Finn who couldn't come up with
decisions and was fired consequently. Ollila (then head of the board)
couldn't either. The search for a new CEO was started long before
Kallasvuo was fired. By this time, Nokia was a dead duck. Despite the
deceptively good sales in countries where text messaging was a bigus dealus.

Nokia wasn't a dead duck otherwise MS wouldn't have bought them, thy had a lot to offer - an amazing brand name back then.

Nokia had the manufacturing. MS had the, um, software.

Nokia considered Andreoid and in-house thingies but neither were
attractive. With Android, Nokia would have ended up as one of the dozens
of commodity HW manufactureres. No money in that.

Developing the infrastructure for an in-house operating system wasn't a
Nokia thing. Not a chance alone against Apple and Android. It was a dead
duck.

What was left. The other turkey, MS.

If you're after culprits, Ollila and the Nokia organisation is a much
better candidate than Elop.

Elop wrecked them for his own gains, he even got a $6M sign-up bonus.

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed. Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to
make attracting talent even harder! Morons.

:(

more lies, there's always more than enough home-grown talent in places like England and Finland, look at the UK's RISC which is in every mobile phone.

Finland is a country of 5M.

but I would trade poor performance with the 300 million
consumers in the U.S. for being the leading cell phone maker for the
other 6.7 billion people in the world. That is exactly where Nokia was
on April 22, 2010, when Stephen Elop came to the show."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-destroyed-nokia

A disturbing lack of vision even with the benefit of hindsight. The 6.7B
would soon switch from text messaging to browsing.

Nokia didn't have the touch screens, the OS, and most of all, missed the
boat on intwernet services. Nokia wasn't a programming/services platform
as the iPhone and later Android were. It was Jobs who said this to
Kallasvuo in 2009. In two years since the iPhone, Nokia was not
considered a competitor anymore at Apple. With Symbian terminally on the
drawing board, turning the engineering oriented Nokia into a services
oriented Nokia was never in the cards.
Hence, Microsoft. But you know what they say about two turkeys.
Microsoft was an All-Finn pressing of the panic button in an All-Finn
caused panic.

how did it work out for Microsoft with all their silicon valley talent? LOL

They had a turkey too.

Stephen Elop wasn’t a Trojan horse brought in from Microsoft to
undermine Nokia -

You said he was! Duhski!

but he was “one of the world’s worst” chief executives

Without having had Microsoft there to buy the phone operations, there
would not be a Nokia anymore. There was value in Elop. Not the value
that was then thought he would bring in. Value nevertheless.

yes there would be, just as there is now. Elop was useless and an incredibly bad CEO, should've hired a native Finn who would've had loyalty to the brand.

Nah. Nokia as a mobile manufacturer was done. Had it put its act
together immediately in 2007, it would likely still have been too late.
But it waffled several years with not much of a direction, and that was
it. Not much point in hashing that anymore.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13.8.2023 17.11, The Iceberg wrote:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 10:19:03 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>>>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

we're meant to believe Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft would've bought an overvalued Nokia, for what purposely exactly?

MS originally proposed to pay something below €6B for the phone
operations but ended up paying more than €9B all in all. But Nokia was failing at the time. It would have gone bankrupt and proved to be a
millstone in MS's neck too.

MS probably thought entering the mobile market was worth it. They wanted
into that market, and believed they had something other than two
turkeys. Building the manufacturing arm from scratch might of been even
more expensive. Who knows, you have to ask them.

I used to have one of these Lumia phones but with the Nokia developed
(Linux derivative?) OS in it. N90 or something. The same hardware as in
the MS Lumia phones. Forget the name of the OS. It's my all-time fave
mobile. It had a bash shell too! I actually used it for something I
can't recall what. Lol. I would still use the phone if it had the apps
and stuff I now need. Sturdy as a rock, survived several ballistic
flights, lovely hardware.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

The Iceberg kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 17.39:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 14:37:12 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 14.40, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 12.19:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on >>>>>>>>> top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused
Nokia's downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in.

Not really. Elop ran it down and sold cheap to Microsoft.

"During Elop's tenure, Nokia's stock price dropped 62%,

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NOK/nokia/stock-price-history

Lolski. Nokia's stock was halved in one year post 2007. That's when
reality hit. By the time it was 2010, it was too late, and Microsoft was
what was left. An All-Finn Ollila decision.

so companies can't be turned around?! the whole problem was they had hired a bad Finn previously (Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo*) and then even worse hired a foreigner who had zero loyalty to the company and was an awful CEO who was prob wined and dined by

Steve Balmer to get a nice cheap deal.


Exactly.

* = In January 2013, it was announced that Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was the new Chairman of the board for Zenterio AB, a Swedish TV software company.[5] Zenterio AB declared bankruptcy in July 2019[6] and in February 2020, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was sued in

court for the amount of 44 million Swedish crowns for his actions as Chairman of Zenterio

Granted, Nokia's
U.S. operations were non-existent and the past CEO was ousted for poor
performance,

The ousted CEO, Kallasvuo, an All-Finn who couldn't come up with
decisions and was fired consequently. Ollila (then head of the board)
couldn't either. The search for a new CEO was started long before
Kallasvuo was fired. By this time, Nokia was a dead duck. Despite the
deceptively good sales in countries where text messaging was a bigus dealus.

Nokia wasn't a dead duck otherwise MS wouldn't have bought them, they had a lot to offer - an amazing brand name back then.

Yes, and there was still money to be made in Symbian phones while
converting to something else, likely Android. It's not like Samsung is
doing poorly with it...

But Elop fucked up the reputation with his "burning platform" comment,
and with some bad decisions.... but most of all was all Microsoft man -
which was very much the wrong way to go. You don't just take the name
and change the country and people and expect to have same formula for
success.

If you're after culprits, Ollila and the Nokia organisation is a much
better candidate than Elop.

Elop wrecked them for his own gains, he even got a $6M sign-up bonus.

I think he got 25 million bonus?

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed. Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to
make attracting talent even harder! Morons.

:(

more lies, there's always more than enough home-grown talent in places like England and Finland, look at the UK's RISC which is in every mobile phone.

but I would trade poor performance with the 300 million
consumers in the U.S. for being the leading cell phone maker for the
other 6.7 billion people in the world. That is exactly where Nokia was
on April 22, 2010, when Stephen Elop came to the show."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-destroyed-nokia

A disturbing lack of vision even with the benefit of hindsight. The 6.7B
would soon switch from text messaging to browsing.

Nokia didn't have the touch screens, the OS, and most of all, missed the
boat on intwernet services. Nokia wasn't a programming/services platform
as the iPhone and later Android were. It was Jobs who said this to
Kallasvuo in 2009. In two years since the iPhone, Nokia was not
considered a competitor anymore at Apple. With Symbian terminally on the
drawing board, turning the engineering oriented Nokia into a services
oriented Nokia was never in the cards.
Hence, Microsoft. But you know what they say about two turkeys.
Microsoft was an All-Finn pressing of the panic button in an All-Finn
caused panic.

how did it work out for Microsoft with all their silicon valley talent? LOL

Touche!

Stephen Elop wasn’t a Trojan horse brought in from Microsoft to
undermine Nokia -

You said he was! Duhski!

Pelle, above was a quote. I think he probably was.
But that article was another point of view, that he was merely incompetent.

but he was “one of the world’s worst” chief executives

Without having had Microsoft there to buy the phone operations, there
would not be a Nokia anymore. There was value in Elop. Not the value
that was then thought he would bring in. Value nevertheless.

Backward logic Pelle.

But yes, Nokia Networks is still a solid business.

yes there would be, just as there is now. Elop was useless and an incredibly bad CEO, should've hired a native Finn who would've had loyalty to the brand.

Yes. One doesn't need to be much of a conspiracy theorist to suspect
that Elop was playing for Microsoft and himself - not for Finland.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 16.37:

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed.

Sounds like excuse, surely we had talent.
And surely such a company can buy it.

Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to
make attracting talent even harder! Morons.

🙁

You sure have some serious attitude problem with Persus. What's so hard
to understand that this is OUR land. Our forefathers spilt their blood
for thousands of years for this.

And as for your talent argument, the immigration reform laws will not
make it harder for these kind of skilled workers who make enough money,
they just make it slightly harder for all the BS immigration. And too
little at that, imo.

Safe white society should be more of an attraction for foreign experts
than the one where people lock themselves behind walls like in USA.

I would think that Sweden has lost A LOT of its attractiveness in eyes
of pros. Finland's biggest problem is probably taxation, and guess what
- the current Marin opposition solution against growing gov expenses
would be... yes, tax more. Tax all to death, take more debt, take more unskilled immigrants from 3rd world. That'll surely fix the problem(s).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Nokia was killed by series of "" decisions 2004-> " Elopp was hired to make smt. out of soon-to-be-ruins....

Instead of long-term Nokia started to think they were immortal with their existing products.

Then came IPhone and everything changed.

While Nokia Mobile Phone's superior market position and bulletproof logistics carried them for a couple of years.....essentially Nokia suffered similar fate as Kodak.

"Ultimately, Kodak's failure was a result of its inability to adapt to changing market conditions. The company was focused on protecting its existing business, rather than embracing new technologies and opportunities. As a result, Kodak was left behind
as the photography industry shifted towards digital."

.mikko

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 09:26:24 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:

Nokia was killed by series of "" decisions 2004-> " Elopp was hired to make smt. out of soon-to-be-ruins....

Instead of long-term Nokia started to think they were immortal with their existing products.

Then came IPhone and everything changed.

While Nokia Mobile Phone's superior market position and bulletproof logistics carried them for a couple of years.....essentially Nokia suffered similar fate as Kodak.

yes it's true the iPhone changed everything but Nokia was in a very strong position to challenge that just as Samsung have done. Hiring the foreigner and Microsoft fan Elop was the disastrous move, was like hiring a fox to guard the chicken coop. He
worked for Microsoft just 2 years beforehand and decided he'd cash the company in to Microsoft making himself lots of $$$ as quick as possible.

"Ultimately, Kodak's failure was a result of its inability to adapt to changing market conditions. The company was focused on protecting its existing business, rather than embracing new technologies and opportunities. As a result, Kodak was left behind

as the photography industry shifted towards digital."

no the difference is that Kodak didn't change because they were scared to lose what they had, Nokia was preprared to change/advance but Elop stopped them - he purposely ceased production of all their latest innovative tech, even wrecked their sales
pitching strategy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 18:42:42 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 17.11, The Iceberg wrote:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 10:19:03 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's >>>> downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the >> phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

we're meant to believe Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft would've bought an overvalued Nokia, for what purposely exactly?

MS originally proposed to pay something below €6B for the phone
operations but ended up paying more than €9B all in all. But Nokia was failing at the time. It would have gone bankrupt and proved to be a millstone in MS's neck too.

did you miss what I originally said? are we really meant to believe CEO of Microsoft would do something like that, paying $3BILION extra for a "failing phone company", for no reason and when he had all the cards on his side? yeah sorry that's fake news.

MS probably thought entering the mobile market was worth it. They wanted into that market, and believed they had something other than two
turkeys. Building the manufacturing arm from scratch might of been even
more expensive. Who knows, you have to ask them.

you have no proof of this and there were other companies out there they could've bought instead. Nobody is going to pay 33% extra for a near bankrupt company, that would be insanely stupid.

I used to have one of these Lumia phones but with the Nokia developed
(Linux derivative?) OS in it. N90 or something. The same hardware as in
the MS Lumia phones. Forget the name of the OS. It's my all-time fave mobile. It had a bash shell too! I actually used it for something I
can't recall what. Lol. I would still use the phone if it had the apps
and stuff I now need. Sturdy as a rock, survived several ballistic
flights, lovely hardware.

yes that's why Nokia was so successful if only they hadn't hired a foreign CEO who was only interested in wrecking the company and selling it cut-price back to Microsoft where he was head of the Business Division just a couple of years before!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 20:46:56 UTC+1, TT wrote:

The Iceberg kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 17.39:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 14:37:12 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 14.40, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 12.19:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on >>>>>>>>> top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused
Nokia's downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in.

Not really. Elop ran it down and sold cheap to Microsoft.

"During Elop's tenure, Nokia's stock price dropped 62%,

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NOK/nokia/stock-price-history >>
Lolski. Nokia's stock was halved in one year post 2007. That's when
reality hit. By the time it was 2010, it was too late, and Microsoft was >> what was left. An All-Finn Ollila decision.

so companies can't be turned around?! the whole problem was they had hired a bad Finn previously (Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo*) and then even worse hired a foreigner who had zero loyalty to the company and was an awful CEO who was prob wined and dined by

Steve Balmer to get a nice cheap deal.

Exactly.

* = In January 2013, it was announced that Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was the new Chairman of the board for Zenterio AB, a Swedish TV software company.[5] Zenterio AB declared bankruptcy in July 2019[6] and in February 2020, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was sued

in court for the amount of 44 million Swedish crowns for his actions as Chairman of Zenterio

Granted, Nokia's
U.S. operations were non-existent and the past CEO was ousted for poor >>> performance,

The ousted CEO, Kallasvuo, an All-Finn who couldn't come up with
decisions and was fired consequently. Ollila (then head of the board)
couldn't either. The search for a new CEO was started long before
Kallasvuo was fired. By this time, Nokia was a dead duck. Despite the
deceptively good sales in countries where text messaging was a bigus dealus.

Nokia wasn't a dead duck otherwise MS wouldn't have bought them, they had a lot to offer - an amazing brand name back then.

Yes, and there was still money to be made in Symbian phones while
converting to something else, likely Android. It's not like Samsung is
doing poorly with it...

But Elop fucked up the reputation with his "burning platform" comment,
and with some bad decisions.... but most of all was all Microsoft man - which was very much the wrong way to go. You don't just take the name
and change the country and people and expect to have same formula for success.

If you're after culprits, Ollila and the Nokia organisation is a much
better candidate than Elop.

Elop wrecked them for his own gains, he even got a $6M sign-up bonus.

I think he got 25 million bonus?

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed. Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to
make attracting talent even harder! Morons.

:(

more lies, there's always more than enough home-grown talent in places like England and Finland, look at the UK's RISC which is in every mobile phone.

but I would trade poor performance with the 300 million
consumers in the U.S. for being the leading cell phone maker for the
other 6.7 billion people in the world. That is exactly where Nokia was >>> on April 22, 2010, when Stephen Elop came to the show."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-destroyed-nokia >> A disturbing lack of vision even with the benefit of hindsight. The 6.7B >> would soon switch from text messaging to browsing.

Nokia didn't have the touch screens, the OS, and most of all, missed the >> boat on intwernet services. Nokia wasn't a programming/services platform >> as the iPhone and later Android were. It was Jobs who said this to
Kallasvuo in 2009. In two years since the iPhone, Nokia was not
considered a competitor anymore at Apple. With Symbian terminally on the >> drawing board, turning the engineering oriented Nokia into a services
oriented Nokia was never in the cards.
Hence, Microsoft. But you know what they say about two turkeys.
Microsoft was an All-Finn pressing of the panic button in an All-Finn
caused panic.

how did it work out for Microsoft with all their silicon valley talent? LOL

Touche!

Stephen Elop wasn’t a Trojan horse brought in from Microsoft to
undermine Nokia -

You said he was! Duhski!

Pelle, above was a quote. I think he probably was.
But that article was another point of view, that he was merely incompetent. >>> but he was “one of the world’s worst” chief executives

Without having had Microsoft there to buy the phone operations, there
would not be a Nokia anymore. There was value in Elop. Not the value
that was then thought he would bring in. Value nevertheless.

Backward logic Pelle.

But yes, Nokia Networks is still a solid business.

yes there would be, just as there is now. Elop was useless and an incredibly bad CEO, should've hired a native Finn who would've had loyalty to the brand.

Yes. One doesn't need to be much of a conspiracy theorist to suspect
that Elop was playing for Microsoft and himself - not for Finland.

more have read about him and what happened, the more am totally convinced he planned from day 1 to wreck the company and cash it in to MS as soon as possible, for his own gain. He was basically a MS shill and even worked for MS just 2 years before, which
Pelle tried to hide. Find it quite terrible story as was big fan of the Nokia 3650, was an awesome phone + belived the myth that Nokia collapsed cos it couldn't compete with Apple, when turns out it certainly could have due to its brand strength,
innovation and if had been led by a decent guy(thanks of the link you posted earlier by the way). Quite why anyone in Finland would back a scumbag like this Elop guy is beyond me.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 12:34:30 PM UTC+3, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 09:26:24 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:

Nokia was killed by series of "" decisions 2004-> " Elopp was hired to make smt. out of soon-to-be-ruins....

Instead of long-term Nokia started to think they were immortal with their existing products.

Then came IPhone and everything changed.

While Nokia Mobile Phone's superior market position and bulletproof logistics carried them for a couple of years.....essentially Nokia suffered similar fate as Kodak.

yes it's true the iPhone changed everything but Nokia was in a very strong position to challenge that just as Samsung have done. Hiring the foreigner and Microsoft fan Elop was the disastrous move, was like hiring a fox to guard the chicken coop. He

worked for Microsoft just 2 years beforehand and decided he'd cash the company in to Microsoft making himself lots of $$$ as quick as possible.

"Ultimately, Kodak's failure was a result of its inability to adapt to changing market conditions. The company was focused on protecting its existing business, rather than embracing new technologies and opportunities. As a result, Kodak was left

behind as the photography industry shifted towards digital."

no the difference is that Kodak didn't change because they were scared to lose what they had, Nokia was preprared to change/advance but Elop stopped them - he purposely ceased production of all their latest innovative tech, even wrecked their sales

pitching strategy.

No, Elopp was hired to reap out at least something. A year before Elopp it was clear Nokia was already losing its mojo, when their own next gen SW development (MeeGo etc) was lacking badly....not badly but super badly.

Retrospectively that 5 billions was a "better price you could have ever imagined"....

.mikko

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13.8.2023 23.26, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2023 klo 16.37:

According to Kallasvuo, one of the chief problems was that Nokia
couldn't attract silicon valley talent. Finland simply wasn't raising
the kind of talent Nokia needed.

Sounds like excuse, surely we had talent.
And surely such a company can buy it.

Sounds ... surely ... surely ...

Now, the jackasses from PerSu want to make attracting talent even
harder! Morons.

🙁

You sure have some serious attitude problem with Persus.

I'll take that as a compliment. PerSu is a meritocracy based on
identity. That's how you advance in the party, that's what they aim to
divide us with. There's votes in division.

What's so hard
to understand that this is OUR land. Our forefathers spilt their blood
for thousands of years for this.

Spilling blood imagery? Oh, my.

Building a country is about laying a brick on top of a brick. Something
you might not have heard of. Each contribute what they can. You can skip
the Winter War-speak now and come out of the pothole.

Without immigration the "us" is dwindling and getting older. The "for
this" will be getting poorer and offer less opportunities as that
happens. It's in MY interests that that does not happen. Even in the
long run. Thankfully, most Finnskies still see it this way and so far we
have had immigration to put some putty on the demographics.

But there are fringes that want to make identity troubles a
self-fulfilling prophecy. You speak their language. Burn a Quran, and
you'll see a reaction.

And as for your talent argument, the immigration reform laws will not
make it harder for these kind of skilled workers who make enough money,

The proposed three months limit between jobs, or you're out, is a rule
we should apply to some of our palefaces too. The same goes for tossing
out foreign students that need access to what could perhaps be called "subsistence support".

These types of proposals apply to 1/1M but send a hostile message noted
by others. Dumb. Exactly the reason Finnish industries, software
companies are voicing their concern.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 14.8.2023 12.29, The Iceberg wrote:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 18:42:42 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 17.11, The Iceberg wrote:

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 10:19:03 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's >>>>>> downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia >>>> to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the >>>> phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

we're meant to believe Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft would've bought an overvalued Nokia, for what purposely exactly?

MS originally proposed to pay something below €6B for the phone
operations but ended up paying more than €9B all in all. But Nokia was
failing at the time. It would have gone bankrupt and proved to be a
millstone in MS's neck too.

did you miss what I originally said? are we really meant to believe CEO of Microsoft would do something like that, paying $3BILION extra for a "failing phone company", for no reason and when he had all the cards on his side? yeah sorry that's fake news.

MS probably thought entering the mobile market was worth it. They wanted
into that market, and believed they had something other than two
turkeys. Building the manufacturing arm from scratch might of been even
more expensive. Who knows, you have to ask them.

you have no proof of this and there were other companies out there they could've bought instead. Nobody is going to pay 33% extra for a near bankrupt company, that would be insanely stupid.

You've forgotten about the Y2K bubble. People pay insane amounts of
money for things they EXPECT to return insane amounts of money.

None of this has to be hashed and rehashed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 11:13:41 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 12:34:30 PM UTC+3, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 09:26:24 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:

Nokia was killed by series of "" decisions 2004-> " Elopp was hired to make smt. out of soon-to-be-ruins....

Instead of long-term Nokia started to think they were immortal with their existing products.

Then came IPhone and everything changed.

While Nokia Mobile Phone's superior market position and bulletproof logistics carried them for a couple of years.....essentially Nokia suffered similar fate as Kodak.

yes it's true the iPhone changed everything but Nokia was in a very strong position to challenge that just as Samsung have done. Hiring the foreigner and Microsoft fan Elop was the disastrous move, was like hiring a fox to guard the chicken coop. He

worked for Microsoft just 2 years beforehand and decided he'd cash the company in to Microsoft making himself lots of $$$ as quick as possible.

"Ultimately, Kodak's failure was a result of its inability to adapt to changing market conditions. The company was focused on protecting its existing business, rather than embracing new technologies and opportunities. As a result, Kodak was left

behind as the photography industry shifted towards digital."

no the difference is that Kodak didn't change because they were scared to lose what they had, Nokia was preprared to change/advance but Elop stopped them - he purposely ceased production of all their latest innovative tech, even wrecked their sales

pitching strategy.

No, Elopp was hired to reap out at least something. A year before Elopp it was clear Nokia was already losing its mojo, when their own next gen SW development (MeeGo etc) was lacking badly....not badly but super badly.

it was losing its mojo but had the opportunity to get it back that's the point. Elop purposely stopped all development on successful lines, including stuff Nokia were the world leader in? he also altered sales commission to make it more difficult to sell
stuff.

Retrospectively that 5 billions was a "better price you could have ever imagined"....

only for Elop. Everything he did was to send Nokia off the cliff and into his previous-employer Microsoft's arms, which he did very successfully. If that was the plan from the start, then yes it worked well, but a native Finn CEO could've turned things
around or sold to Samsung which would've been way better.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:

Without immigration the "us" is dwindling and getting older.

But with immigration "you" are nevertheless dwindling and getting older if that's what's going on.

It's just that someone else will live there instead of you. Yog get replaced, you don't get "younger" if you import aliens.


Which is fine by me.


Russia has great relationships with Africans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Russia-Africa_Summit



When Finns get replaced, Russia will have amicable neighbours.

Can't wait for it, for disappearance of you, TT, koltonen, Marin etc.


--




----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 11:13:41 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 12:34:30 PM UTC+3, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 09:26:24 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:

Nokia was killed by series of "" decisions 2004-> " Elopp was hired to make smt. out of soon-to-be-ruins....

Instead of long-term Nokia started to think they were immortal with their existing products.

Then came IPhone and everything changed.

While Nokia Mobile Phone's superior market position and bulletproof logistics carried them for a couple of years.....essentially Nokia suffered similar fate as Kodak.

yes it's true the iPhone changed everything but Nokia was in a very strong position to challenge that just as Samsung have done. Hiring the foreigner and Microsoft fan Elop was the disastrous move, was like hiring a fox to guard the chicken coop. He

worked for Microsoft just 2 years beforehand and decided he'd cash the company in to Microsoft making himself lots of $$$ as quick as possible.

"Ultimately, Kodak's failure was a result of its inability to adapt to changing market conditions. The company was focused on protecting its existing business, rather than embracing new technologies and opportunities. As a result, Kodak was left

behind as the photography industry shifted towards digital."

no the difference is that Kodak didn't change because they were scared to lose what they had, Nokia was preprared to change/advance but Elop stopped them - he purposely ceased production of all their latest innovative tech, even wrecked their sales

pitching strategy.

No, Elopp was hired to reap out at least something. A year before Elopp it was clear Nokia was already losing its mojo, when their own next gen SW development (MeeGo etc) was lacking badly....not badly but super badly.

Retrospectively that 5 billions was a "better price you could have ever imagined"....

oh you're also discounting that before Elop, Nokia had also stupidly hired the criminal Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo as CEO who prob purposely wrecked Nokia as best he could :

"In January 2013, it was announced that Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was the new Chairman of the board for Zenterio AB, a Swedish TV software company.[5] Zenterio AB declared bankruptcy in July 2019[6] and in February 2020, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was sued in court
for the amount of 44 million Swedish crowns for his actions as Chairman of Zenterio."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

Some people at Nokia thought touch screens were
for morons. Apple's early phone efforts were
ridiculed at Nokia.

That "some people" were persons in leading positions.
As far as I remember, Nokia had fully working touch
screen prototypes, but the bosses thought that real
physical keyboards is the way to go. It was a key
mistake in Nokia's downfall.

By the way, I just bought Nokia G22 for 139€ and
it is a wonderful Android phone with a long-lasting
battery.

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of >>>>> the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

Then Pinocchio chimes in and agrees but won't come out and say it, and calls everyone Marxists.

One-trick ponies.

Nokia does its own recruiting and
hires worldwide. If there is something to be deduced from this, it's
that Nokia in fact imports furriners itself.

Boo hoo hoo!

Immigration does not really help companies

Really, Tiny. You should stick to the 24/7 Nadal fannieing.

and in
its current form it downright destroys western economies & societies
from within.

You're fully versed in the supremacist lingo, that much is clear. As for
the rest, well, ... lol.
--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:08:09 AM UTC-4, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> wrote:

Some people at Nokia thought touch screens were
for morons. Apple's early phone efforts were
ridiculed at Nokia.

That "some people" were persons in leading positions.
As far as I remember, Nokia had fully working touch
screen prototypes, but the bosses thought that real
physical keyboards is the way to go. It was a key
mistake in Nokia's downfall.

By the way, I just bought Nokia G22 for 139€ and
it is a wonderful Android phone with a long-lasting
battery.

br,
KK

No Geppetto?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:58:47 AM UTC-7, gap...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:08:09 AM UTC-4, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> wrote:

Some people at Nokia thought touch screens were
for morons. Apple's early phone efforts were
ridiculed at Nokia.

That "some people" were persons in leading positions.
As far as I remember, Nokia had fully working touch
screen prototypes, but the bosses thought that real
physical keyboards is the way to go. It was a key
mistake in Nokia's downfall.

By the way, I just bought Nokia G22 for 139€ and
it is a wonderful Android phone with a long-lasting
battery.

br,
KK

No Geppetto?

Just Jiminy Cricket :-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Kalevi Kolttonen kirjoitti 14.8.2023 klo 18.08:

By the way, I just bought Nokia G22 for 139€ and
it is a wonderful Android phone with a long-lasting
battery.

Nice!

I bought today some Nokia stocks.
Well, actually index fund on 25 biggest Finnish stocks. They're
currently rather reasonably priced...

https://www.seligson.fi/suomi/rahastot/rahes_etf.htm

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:08:09 AM UTC-7, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> wrote:

Some people at Nokia thought touch screens were
for morons. Apple's early phone efforts were
ridiculed at Nokia.

That "some people" were persons in leading positions.
As far as I remember, Nokia had fully working touch
screen prototypes, but the bosses thought that real
physical keyboards is the way to go. It was a key
mistake in Nokia's downfall.

By the way, I just bought Nokia G22 for 139€ and
it is a wonderful Android phone with a long-lasting
battery.

Is it touch screen? ;-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's >> downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without any
real world examples.

Then Pinocchio chimes in and agrees but won't come out and say it, and calls everyone Marxists.
One-trick ponies.

such irony! you were too cowardly to say if you think a multicultural mixed society is superior to a majority white society.
Just admit you can't explain your own views, comrade.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:11:11 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's >> downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without any

real world examples.

Then Pinocchio chimes in and agrees but won't come out and say it, and calls everyone Marxists.
One-trick ponies.

such irony! you were too cowardly to say if you think a multicultural mixed society is superior to a majority white society.
Just admit you can't explain your own views, comrade.

Of course usa is superior to most racist white trash countries, Finland, moldova, sweden, denmark, ozland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's >> downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without any

real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

Then Pinocchio chimes in and agrees but won't come out and say it, and calls everyone Marxists.
One-trick ponies.

such irony! you were too cowardly to say if you think a multicultural mixed society is superior to a majority white society.
Just admit you can't explain your own views, comrade.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without

any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 6:05:47 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without

any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

Wrong. And calling you a liar is accurate.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:23:42 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote: >>> On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with >>>>> Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver >>>>> lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone >>>>> business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia >>>>> to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's >>>>>> rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without

any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

This is it!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote: >>>>> On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's >>>>>>> downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia >>>>> to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the >>>>> phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's >>>>>> rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad. >>> the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without

any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

;^)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make Woke."

--Sawfish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote: >>> On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the

maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with >>>>> Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver >>>>> lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone >>>>> business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia >>>>> to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's >>>>>> rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without

any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me! remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and
calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to explain anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 15 August 2023 at 19:30:34 UTC+1, gap...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:11:11 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites, without

any real world examples.

Then Pinocchio chimes in and agrees but won't come out and say it, and calls everyone Marxists.
One-trick ponies.

such irony! you were too cowardly to say if you think a multicultural mixed society is superior to a majority white society.
Just admit you can't explain your own views, comrade.

Of course usa is superior to most racist white trash countries, Finland, moldova, sweden, denmark, ozland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how is the USA superior when you(personally) say the USA is the most racist country in the world and founded on slavery and racism? don't your police shoot any black man they find.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:22:41 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 6:05:47 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear,

and the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

Wrong. And calling you a liar is accurate.

you need to "come out" and be proud! you claimed that non-whites might have had a "harder" time + you posted all those fake stories about Russia, won't mention how everyone knows you're a sock LOLski

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:53:18 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote: >>> On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote: >>>>>>>> Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>> https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with >>>>> Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver >>>>> lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone >>>>> business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me!

A physical threat, how cute! You're like Trump, making lame arguments and then proclaiming victory as all the normal people smirk.

remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to explain

anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

Of course you're a bully. Too bad for you we're not on the playground anymore.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:49:37 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:53:18 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote: >>>>>>>> Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>> https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver >>>>> lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone >>>>> business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me!

A physical threat, how cute! You're like Trump, making lame arguments and then proclaiming victory as all the normal people smirk.

remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to explain

anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

Of course you're a bully. Too bad for you we're not on the playground anymore.

When is Donzi going to jail?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 9:23:04 AM UTC-7, gap...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:49:37 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:53:18 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote: >>>>>>>> Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>> https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear,

and the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national. >>>>>>>>>

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole. >>>>> Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me!

A physical threat, how cute! You're like Trump, making lame arguments and then proclaiming victory as all the normal people smirk.

remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to

explain anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

Of course you're a bully. Too bad for you we're not on the playground anymore.

When is Donzi going to jail?

He is already in a personal hell of his own making.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 16:49:37 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:53:18 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote: >>>>>>>> Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>> https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national.

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole.

Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver >>>>> lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone >>>>> business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me!

A physical threat, how cute! You're like Trump, making lame arguments and then proclaiming victory as all the normal people smirk.

not sure how on earth a cage match cannot relate to a physical threat? maybe you can enlighten us...oh no you won't, as per usual. Tip: that's why you're PWNed so often LOLski

remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to explain

anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

Of course you're a bully. Too bad for you we're not on the playground anymore.

did you often get beaten up at school?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 17:50:09 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 9:23:04 AM UTC-7, gap...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:49:37 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:53:18 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote: >>>>>>>> Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>> https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear,

and the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national. >>>>>>>>>

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole. >>>>> Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with
Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver
lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone
business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree?

hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me!

A physical threat, how cute! You're like Trump, making lame arguments and then proclaiming victory as all the normal people smirk.

remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to

explain anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

Of course you're a bully. Too bad for you we're not on the playground anymore.

When is Donzi going to jail?

He is already in a personal hell of his own making.

oh yes comparing postings between you and I, everyone would conclude that! you always seem so angry/upset, it a real shame, but that's what you get when you choose to follow Marxism. Look know you gay but we had gay guys here before(like Raja) and we don'
t care on RST + instead of being obsessed that Twump personally did bad things to you(which he didn't), you should embrace him, you'd be lot happier.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/18/23 1:54 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 17:50:09 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 9:23:04 AM UTC-7, gap...@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:49:37 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 7:53:18 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote: >>>>> On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 15:23:42 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:

On 8/16/23 6:05 AM, The Iceberg wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 at 02:15:44 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:11:11 AM UTC-7, The Iceberg wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 15:40:45 UTC+1, bmoore wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

On 13.8.2023 10.12, TT wrote:

bmoore kirjoitti 12.8.2023 klo 19.57:

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:45:18 PM UTC-7, TT wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 10.8.2023 klo 19.11:

On 10.8.2023 18.42, *skriptis wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/talous/art-2000009772949.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=trueThe mono-agenda PerSu party is from PerSu.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and

the maiden fair"-- Traditional

What was percentage of non-Finns in Finland when Finland was on top of
the world, dominating mobile phones worldwide?

I don't know. But Nokia was and is a multi-national. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Made by all-Finn engineers.

Mostly, probably. But I doubt that immigration is what caused Nokia's
downfall.

It was destroyed by Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft mole. >>>>>>>>>>> Lol. You're the Midas of non-starters.

Nokia was in deep shit already when Elop was brought in. Going with >>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft was the last ditch attempt. In fact, Elop was the silver >>>>>>>>>>> lining. It is very likely because of him and Balmer that the phone >>>>>>>>>>> business was sold to Microsoft way overvalued. This sale allowed Nokia
to make a couple of acquisitions and pivot to networking. Otherwise, the
phone business would have sunk Nokia altogether.

But I think Skriptis' point was that immigration didn't help Nokia's
rise. He's correct.

It had nothing to do with it. Lol.

Twist's "point", always, is that whites are good and everyone else is bad.

the premise for all your arguments is that non-whites are good and whites are bad, especially older white men, all we ever hear from you is whites are wacist, oppressive, hold others back etc. whilst you give endless excuses for non-whites,

without any real world examples.

I've never done that, Pinocchio. You have no idea.

yes you have, you previously claimed non-whites "might" have had a tougher time without giving any examples. You always jump in on these discussions and call us names, that's all you do, right comrade?

It's probably about time to schedule the cage match, do you two agree? >>>>> hey that wouldn't be fair! would be same result as with this verbal sparring, he'd get totally knocked-out and PWNed by me!

A physical threat, how cute! You're like Trump, making lame arguments and then proclaiming victory as all the normal people smirk.

remember all this started cos the poor comrade convinced himself I was a "bully" and so jumped in head first attacking me and calling names. Also likely poor old bmoore would be too scared to throw any punches, just like how he too scared to

explain anything, he won't even admit he proudly voted for the Biden regime!! amazing

Of course you're a bully. Too bad for you we're not on the playground anymore.

When is Donzi going to jail?

He is already in a personal hell of his own making.

oh yes comparing postings between you and I, everyone would conclude that! you always seem so angry/upset, it a real shame, but that's what you get when you choose to follow Marxism. Look know you gay but we had gay guys here before(like Raja)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1TjUNyn4Ww

and we don't care on RST + instead of being obsessed that Twump personally did bad things to you(which he didn't), you should embrace him, you'd be lot happier.

--
--Sawfish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Would someone please tell me what 'diddy-wah-diddy' means?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)