Old and tired.
Old and tired.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 4:06:21 PM UTC+3, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Subjective:
Similar to Delpo-Fed USO 2009 final.
Ragged you look, ragged you are.
But nah....Djoker played a good ball, this Alcaraz played phenomenal ball. All creds to him. #1 when 20y with tons of titles already.
Propably Djoker's phenomenal ball would have beaten Alcaraz today but according to Jimmy Connors your phenomenal ball events happen only thrice during a career? (Connors listed: Wim 74 final, USO 78 final, USO Edberg match 1989, 3r/4r?)
Old and tired.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:25:58 AM UTC-7, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 4:06:21 PM UTC+3, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Subjective:
Similar to Delpo-Fed USO 2009 final.
Ragged you look, ragged you are.
But nah....Djoker played a good ball, this Alcaraz played phenomenal ball. All creds to him. #1 when 20y with tons of titles already.
Propably Djoker's phenomenal ball would have beaten Alcaraz today but according to Jimmy Connors your phenomenal ball events happen only thrice during a career? (Connors listed: Wim 74 final, USO 78 final, USO Edberg match 1989, 3r/4r?)When did "phenomenal" become the new "awesome"? I'm still trying to pinpoint that. ;)
Must admit, though, it fits in the case of Alcaraz yesterday. On the Tennis Channel, even frame shots hit by middling players are phenomenal.
Must admit, though, it fits in the case of Alcaraz yesterday. On the Tennis Channel, even frame shots hit by middling players are phenomenal.they all said 36 is the new 26, so he must've looked even older than when he smashed Sinner to bits in the SF! LOL
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:25:58 AM UTC-7, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 4:06:21 PM UTC+3, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Subjective:
Similar to Delpo-Fed USO 2009 final.
Ragged you look, ragged you are.
But nah....Djoker played a good ball, this Alcaraz played phenomenal ball. All creds to him. #1 when 20y with tons of titles already.
Propably Djoker's phenomenal ball would have beaten Alcaraz today but according to Jimmy Connors your phenomenal ball events happen only thrice during a career? (Connors listed: Wim 74 final, USO 78 final, USO Edberg match 1989, 3r/4r?)When did "phenomenal" become the new "awesome"? I'm still trying to pinpoint that. ;)
Must admit, though, it fits in the case of Alcaraz yesterday. On the Tennis Channel, even frame shots hit by middling players are phenomenal.
When did "phenomenal" become the new "awesome"? I'm still trying to pinpoint that.
Gracchus kirjoitti 17.7.2023 klo 18.41:
When did "phenomenal" become the new "awesome"? I'm still trying to pinpoint that.
Probably Robbie Koenig, who also introduced the term "phenomenadal".
On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 14:06:21 UTC+1, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.
yes taking the world #1 the best 20 year old we've seen in 20 years to 5 sets, breaking him after a 22 shot rally + being(to credit Pelle)"one drive volley away from the match", yeah really made Djoker look ancient!
On 7/17/23 6:06 AM, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Yep. Unmistakable.
The best example was reversal of direction. Very slow and labored.
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!"
--Sawfish
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:
Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient."
I strongly disagree. Djoker lost two important matches: Meds USO 2021 and to Zverev Olympics 2021. They younger than Djoker, right?Yes. Might have won, but definitely was not the dominant player at that
In Wimb final (apart from 1st set), Djoker was hanging and hoping. Playing good, not his best, but good still.
All creds to Alcaraz, he is.....new.....something.....Yes.
.mikko
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:46:41 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:06 AM, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Yep. Unmistakable.
The best example was reversal of direction. Very slow and labored.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> "When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!"
--Sawfish
He doesn't look OLD in any way, shape or form! He's as fit as a fiddle.
It was a close match which could have easily gone Djokovic's way. Wait until the next time they play. Djokovic won't sleep for weeks. He'll obsessively study the tapes of the match and come out with solutions for the next match they play. He probablydoes that better than any great player I've ever seen.
He finally has another rival who can challenge him now that Federer is retired and Nadal is absent. That's good.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:
Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient."
I strongly disagree. Djoker lost two important matches: Meds USO 2021 and to Zverev Olympics 2021. They younger than Djoker, right?
In Wimb final (apart from 1st set), Djoker was hanging and hoping. Playing good, not his best, but good still.
All creds to Alcaraz, he is.....new.....something.....
On 7/17/23 4:40 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:46:41 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:06 AM, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Yep. Unmistakable.
The best example was reversal of direction. Very slow and labored.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!"
--Sawfish
He doesn't look OLD in any way, shape or form! He's as fit as a fiddle.In respect Courty, I could see this:
- difficulty in reversing direction;
- inability to reach drop shots with adequate prep
- general sluggishness.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:15:01 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:40 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:46:41 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:06 AM, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.Yep. Unmistakable.
The best example was reversal of direction. Very slow and labored.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"Petition the lord with prayer...
"YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!"
--Sawfish
He doesn't look OLD in any way, shape or form! He's as fit as a fiddle.In respect Courty, I could see this:
- difficulty in reversing direction;
- inability to reach drop shots with adequate prep
- general sluggishness.I agree. I just don't really see much of that with Djokovic. I do see that he's declined physically somewhat but he's made some compensations as well.
Obviously though, Alcaraz looks like a 20 year old beast physically and yet HE cramped during the FO and Oldovic looked like the 20 year old.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:
Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient."
I strongly disagree. Djoker lost two important matches: Meds USO 2021 and to Zverev Olympics 2021. They younger than Djoker, right?Yes, those were big Djokovic losses to younger players but they were the exceptions and not the rules. Medvedev and Zverev simply aren't consistent enough to trouble Djokovic regularly.
I definitely give a lot of credit to Alcaraz and I hope he can go on and regularly humiliate Djokovic but I'll believe it when I see it. In fairness to Alcaraz, I think he's the player that can do it. But will he? Or will they split match wins?
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:56:53 PM UTC+3, The Iceberg wrote:
Must admit, though, it fits in the case of Alcaraz yesterday. On the Tennis Channel, even frame shots hit by middling players are phenomenal.they all said 36 is the new 26, so he must've looked even older than when he smashed Sinner to bits in the SF! LOL
Sinner is good but he is like Murray-lite?
He has no killer instinct to go one notch above?
.mikko
On 18/07/2023 2:05 am, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:56:53 PM UTC+3, The Iceberg wrote:
Must admit, though, it fits in the case of Alcaraz yesterday. On the Tennis Channel, even frame shots hit by middling players are phenomenal.they all said 36 is the new 26, so he must've looked even older than when he smashed Sinner to bits in the SF! LOL
Sinner is good but he is like Murray-lite?
He has no killer instinct to go one notch above?
.mikkoI think Sinner has fooled us? Maybe he's one of those guys who peaks at
20 and never gets better, only worse? Unusual, but possible based on evidence so far.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 9:54:08 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient."
On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 14:06:21 UTC+1, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.
yes taking the world #1 the best 20 year old we've seen in 20 years to 5 sets, breaking him after a 22 shot rally + being(to credit Pelle)"one drive volley away from the match", yeah really made Djoker look ancient!
Yes, exactly! Before the match Ocean and other Djokovic zealots were proclaiming that Djokovic was ageless and would win slams for the next 15 years. Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely
These coping mechanisms used by all fanbases when a favorite player loses are hysterical.about the truth for once which is your favorite player lost on the day because another player was a bit better?
Newsflash: These goat level players are not supreme beings despite what the media may have told us over the years. It's not normal behavior to be so obsessed with a damn tennis player that you have to make up 1000 excuses when said player loses. How
Don't worry Ocean, your beloved icon will win more slams. There are only two players currently who are the cream of the crop: Djokovic and Alcaraz. I don't think Alcaraz will make it every single time to meet Djokovic and what other >player can beatDjokovic? Sinner, Tsitsipas, Ruud? We've seen that movie many times before.
Old and tired.
MBDunc <michaelb@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:r> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now,Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient." > > > > I strongly
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent youngerplayer on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient." > > > > I strongly disagree. Djoker lost two important matches: Meds USO 2021
MBDunc <mich...@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:rplayer on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient." > > > > I strongly disagree. Djoker lost two important matches: Meds USO 2021
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger
Because he runs and beats every useless tennis player, Court doesn't think he is getting older and that age can't be an issue when he has to play a really good young player.
When Sampras lost to Hewit in the US open final, I remember him saying something like he wished he had Hewitt younger legs
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> MBDunc <michaelb@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:r> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday,July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r> PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> MBDunc <michaelb@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:r> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17,2023 at 7:48:33PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have
On 18/07/2023 9:33 am, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 9:54:08 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 14:06:21 UTC+1, Ocean Naught wrote:
Old and tired.
yes taking the world #1 the best 20 year old we've seen in 20 years
to 5 sets, breaking him after a 22 shot rally + being(to credit
Pelle)"one drive volley away from the match", yeah really made Djoker
look ancient!
Yes, exactly! Before the match Ocean and other Djokovic zealots were
proclaiming that Djokovic was ageless and would win slams for the next
15 years. Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger
player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he
could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a
sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient."
These coping mechanisms used by all fanbases when a favorite player
loses are hysterical.
Newsflash: These goat level players are not supreme beings despite
what the media may have told us over the years. It's not normal
behavior to be so obsessed with a damn tennis player that you have to
make up 1000 excuses when said player loses. How about the truth for
once which is your favorite player lost on the day because another
player was a bit better?
Don't worry Ocean, your beloved icon will win more slams. There are
only two players currently who are the cream of the crop: Djokovic
and Alcaraz. I don't think Alcaraz will make it every single time to
meet Djokovic and what other >player can beat Djokovic? Sinner,
Tsitsipas, Ruud? We've seen that movie many times before.
I agree Novak is not finished, but his age window is closing fast imo.
Unless he's something truly exceptional and can maintain this level til
age 40. Be great to see, but not betting on it. I give him til 2025
AO, age 37.5, so 6 more slam chances where he should be some kind of factor. Carlos prob won't win all 6, so Novak better be ready to step
in when/if he gets the chance.
*skriptis kirjoitti 18.7.2023 klo 18.57:> PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r>> *skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r> PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> MBDunc <michaelb@dnainternet.net>Wrote in message:r> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the
As for this, while I'd like to use age as an excuse, it's perfect excuse, and age surely contributed to the final result in some way, but the truth is, Alcaraz is better at windy conditions and wind was the deal breaker.> > Alcaraz won 168 pts toDjokovic 166.> > Wind fucked at least 5% of Djokovic's game more than it fucked Alcaraz. Flip around 5% and see what you get, and that's 174 to 160 for Djokovic in pts?> > With 14 pts difference, even though Alcaraz might still win the match with fewer
TT <T...@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:rmessage:r> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent
*skriptis kirjoitti 18.7.2023 klo 18.57:> PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r>> *skriptis <skri...@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r> PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> MBDunc <mich...@dnainternet.net> Wrote in
As for this, while I'd like to use age as an excuse, it's perfect excuse, and age surely contributed to the final result in some way, but the truth is, Alcaraz is better at windy conditions and wind was the deal breaker.> > Alcaraz won 168 pts toDjokovic 166.> > Wind fucked at least 5% of Djokovic's game more than it fucked Alcaraz. Flip around 5% and see what you get, and that's 174 to 160 for Djokovic in pts?> > With 14 pts difference, even though Alcaraz might still win the match with fewer
We can do this ad nauaeam...
Losing to wind is actually a detriment to his stature, it's the opposite from excuse. It's a bad thing that he's so susceptible to it.
But it is who he is and it is what happened. He couldn't play his game to perfection and against a 20-year old upcoming boat/goat you need your best.
His timing and precision are crucial for such occasions as set 2 tiebreak. He can't do it in windy conditions he has to compromise either in power or length and so on and mistakes or misshits creep in.
If there was no wind, they wouldn't have been in set 5, that's near certain, it would have been all over in 3 or 4.
Later on they were kinda even and wind subsided a bit, Djokovic was ok but Alcaraz had this youthful energy all over the place and was more energetic, but imo it's not age that much that won him the match, it's the style.
He's the true attacker in his soul, like Sampras, and unlike Federer.
For Djokovic, it's a shame as he kinda got the taste of Federer's 2008, but in reality he should have gotten Federer's 2007. One last win against younger boat.
Alcaraz "is not yet there" to have beaten Djokovic on grass. Maybe he's not in indoors as well. He is definitely there on clay and hardcourt, but not on grass.
Then again, Djokovic kinda stole FO from him and now it was the reverse. It's ok.
Djokovic split many slams and matches with great players such as Nadal and Federer, he's older now and if he wins one third of matches against Alcaraz in the next year or two, I'm pleased.
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
MBDunc <mich...@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:rplayer on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a sudden we hear, "Djokovic is ancient." > > > > I strongly disagree. Djoker lost two important matches: Meds USO 2021
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger
Because he runs and beats every useless tennis player, Court doesn't think he is getting older and that age can't be an issue when he has to play a really good young player.
When Sampras lost to Hewit in the US open final, I remember him saying something like he wished he had Hewitt younger legs
On 7/18/23 8:36 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r
But this isn't my point, the point is, when you are a very good tennis
player you can beat younger less talented players, but once you have
to face a person with the same skills and/or talent but younger than
you, then youth becomes a big factor in deciding the outcome.
This seems completely obvious to me. For any given point the younger
player will have a physical edge, and this increases during the course
of the match, often.
Now, whether the younger player can capitalize on this advantage is what separates Alcaraz from Zverev.
Whisper kirjoitti 18.7.2023 klo 15.08:
I agree Novak is not finished, but his age window is closing fast imo.
Unless he's something truly exceptional and can maintain this level
til age 40. Be great to see, but not betting on it. I give him til
2025 AO, age 37.5, so 6 more slam chances where he should be some kind
of factor. Carlos prob won't win all 6, so Novak better be ready to
step in when/if he gets the chance.
It's far from given that Alkie will make all slam finals from now on.
Also, Djokovic will again be the more fit player after his year-end egg treatment and gluten-free diet..
TT <TT@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:r
For Djokovic, it's a shame as he kinda got the taste of Federer's 2008, but in reality he should have gotten Federer's 2007. One last win against younger boat.
Alcaraz "is not yet there" to have beaten Djokovic on grass. Maybe he's not in indoors as well. He is definitely there on clay and hardcourt, but not on grass.
Then again, Djokovic kinda stole FO from him and now it was the reverse. It's ok.
Djokovic split many slams and matches with great players such as Nadal and Federer, he's older now and if he wins one third of matches against Alcaraz in the next year or two, I'm pleased.
On 19/07/2023 6:16 am, TT wrote:
Whisper kirjoitti 18.7.2023 klo 15.08:
I agree Novak is not finished, but his age window is closing fast
imo. Unless he's something truly exceptional and can maintain this
level til age 40. Be great to see, but not betting on it. I give
him til 2025 AO, age 37.5, so 6 more slam chances where he should be
some kind of factor. Carlos prob won't win all 6, so Novak better
be ready to step in when/if he gets the chance.
It's far from given that Alkie will make all slam finals from now on.
Yes, but he will start fave in every match he plays - a prohibitive fave.
Also, Djokovic will again be the more fit player after his year-end
egg treatment and gluten-free diet..
Novak will be fave v every other player next 2 slams at least.
On 7/18/23 8:36 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:July 18, 2023 at 2:33:30 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote: > > > Now, Djokovic finally loses to the first decent younger player on the scene in ages but in a closely contested battle where he could have easily won if a few shots went differently and all of a
*skriptis <skri...@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> MBDunc <mich...@dnainternet.net> Wrote in message:r> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:32:26 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote: > > On Tuesday,
deciding the outcome.Don't get sensitive, any of these players were better than the likes of Sinner and the other tall Italian pizza guy and that shapavolov ADHD guy.
But this isn't my point, the point is, when you are a very good tennis player you can beat younger less talented players, but once you have to face a person with the same skills and/or talent but younger than you, then youth becomes a big factor in
This seems completely obvious to me. For any given point the younger
player will have a physical edge, and this increases during the course
of the match, often.
Now, whether the younger player can capitalize on this advantage is what separates Alcaraz from Zverev.
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys
have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to quit after having got rid of that doubt.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to quit after having got rid of that doubt.
Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guysBetter that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to >>> quit after having got rid of that doubt.
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys >>> have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to >>> quit after having got rid of that doubt
Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is a notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" of
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys >>> have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to >>> quit after having got rid of that doubt.
This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is a notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" of
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 12:31:51 PM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys >>> have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to
quit after having got rid of that doubt
Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
like an old-fashioned excuse, even if made on his behalf by others. But if there's a case to be made, I'd like to hear it too.This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is a notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" ofGood point. At least in the case of McEnroe, he admitted he hated playing in wind, avoided playing in Florida because it was so often windy, and had some bad losses there. I'm not sure where this narrative about Djokovic and the wind began. It sounds
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:31:51 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe.
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys >>>>> have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to >>>>> quit after having got rid of that doubt.
This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is aAre you serious? What objective metric is it based on? You've followed tennis for all these years and you aren't aware of the fact that Djokovic underperforms and is visibly uncomfortable playing in windy conditions?
notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" of
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
It's been talked about on social media and by commentators for a long time. Djokovic himself has talked about it. You can actually see his disdain for windy conditions during the times he has to play big matches when it's windy. It's one of thosethings that's as well-known about Djokovic as his misadventures with overheads.
As for why he tends to play poorly in windy conditions, that's for somebody else to go into in more detail. Maybe a big Djokovic fan like Pelle can shed some light on it? I've read a lot of different theories over the years as to why the wind affectshis game in particular(i.e. because he's a master at re-directing the ball, the wind gets in the way of that skill for him.) You can go anywhere on the internet where there is tennis discussion and see tons of theories about it if that's what floats your
Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.Not that I can see yet.
I'm not using it as an excuse for him as both players have to deal with the wind during a match. I'm just saying in every windy match I've seen him play, he has had his issues with it.
As for why he tends to play poorly in windy conditions, that's for somebody else to go into in more detail. Maybe a big Djokovic fan like Pelle can shed some light on it? I've read a lot of different theories over the years as to why the wind affectshis game in particular(i.e. because he's a master at re-directing the ball, the wind gets in the way of that skill for him.) You can go anywhere on the internet where there is tennis discussion and see tons of theories about it if that's what floats your
On 7/20/23 7:06 PM, Court_1 wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:31:51 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys >>>>> have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to
quit after having got rid of that doubt.
things that's as well-known about Djokovic as his misadventures with overheads.Yes, I'm serious, and no< I'd never seen evidence of it.This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is a >> notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based? >>Are you serious? What objective metric is it based on? You've followed tennis for all these years and you aren't aware of the fact that Djokovic underperforms and is visibly uncomfortable playing in windy conditions?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" of
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
I never heard of it until someone wrote it here.
It's been talked about on social media and by commentators for a long time. Djokovic himself has talked about it. You can actually see his disdain for windy conditions during the times he has to play big matches when it's windy. It's one of those
I just did a couple of searches: "does djokovic have trouble in thehis game in particular(i.e. because he's a master at re-directing the ball, the wind gets in the way of that skill for him.) You can go anywhere on the internet where there is tennis discussion and see tons of theories about it if that's what floats your
wind" and "djokovic in the wind" and the only mention I see relates to
the 2023 final, 2021 Monte Carlo.
So far, I have your word that it's a well-known fact.
As for why he tends to play poorly in windy conditions, that's for somebody else to go into in more detail. Maybe a big Djokovic fan like Pelle can shed some light on it? I've read a lot of different theories over the years as to why the wind affects
Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.Not that I can see yet.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 7:06:28 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
his game in particular(i.e. because he's a master at re-directing the ball, the wind gets in the way of that skill for him.) You can go anywhere on the internet where there is tennis discussion and see tons of theories about it if that's what floats yourAs for why he tends to play poorly in windy conditions, that's for somebody else to go into in more detail. Maybe a big Djokovic fan like Pelle can shed some light on it? I've read a lot of different theories over the years as to why the wind affects
Probably not, but the thought of it brings a smile to my face.
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 10:17:26 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe.
On 7/20/23 7:06 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:31:51 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guys >>>>>>> have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.Better that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to
quit after having got rid of that doubt.
things that's as well-known about Djokovic as his misadventures with overheads. >> I just did a couple of searches: "does djokovic have trouble in theYes, I'm serious, and no< I'd never seen evidence of it.This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is a >>>> notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based? >>>>Are you serious? What objective metric is it based on? You've followed tennis for all these years and you aren't aware of the fact that Djokovic underperforms and is visibly uncomfortable playing in windy conditions?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" of
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
I never heard of it until someone wrote it here.
It's been talked about on social media and by commentators for a long time. Djokovic himself has talked about it. You can actually see his disdain for windy conditions during the times he has to play big matches when it's windy. It's one of those
his game in particular(i.e. because he's a master at re-directing the ball, the wind gets in the way of that skill for him.) You can go anywhere on the internet where there is tennis discussion and see tons of theories about it if that's what floats yourwind" and "djokovic in the wind" and the only mention I see relates to
the 2023 final, 2021 Monte Carlo.
So far, I have your word that it's a well-known fact.
As for why he tends to play poorly in windy conditions, that's for somebody else to go into in more detail. Maybe a big Djokovic fan like Pelle can shed some light on it? I've read a lot of different theories over the years as to why the wind affects
You say...Well, try harder. It's there and is well-known.Not that I can see yet.
Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.
As I said, Djokovic himself has referred to his dislike of windy conditions. Commentators have been talking about it for a decade.Not that I found.
We see things differently. You didn't see any issues Djokovic had with the wind
in the Wimbledon final and I didn't see any big Djokovic age factors in that match.So you did get around to watching it?
On 7/20/23 7:55 PM, Court_1 wrote:
Well, try harder. It's there and is well-known.Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.Not that I can see yet.
You say...
As I said, Djokovic himself has referred to his dislike of windy conditions. Commentators have been talking about it for a decade.Not that I found.
We see things differently. You didn't see any issues Djokovic had with the windOh, I saw it a bit.
It was the same wind that Alcaraz dealt with, is how I saw it.
in the Wimbledon final and I didn't see any big Djokovic age factors in that match.So you did get around to watching it?
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 10:17:26 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/20/23 7:06 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:31:51 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote: >>>>
I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt these other guysBetter that Alcaraz crushes him flat in a straight-set final, silencing any desperate to think Sunday's result came from the wind or other such foolishness. Let the bastard cup his little round ear to the crowd with jeers ringing in it this time.
have. Djok seldom has any doubt--but he will now, vs Alcaraz.
I hope he can beat Alcaraz one more time in a majors final. It's good to
quit after having got rid of that doubt.
improvements he continually makes, hasn't mastered windy conditions. If the roof was closed would the results have been different? Maybe.Honestly, Djokovic is an atrocious wind player for an all time great. You can't use it as an excuse for his loss as both players had to deal with the wind but it is a fact that Djokovic, for all of his smarts on a tennis court and all of the
things that's as well-known about Djokovic as his misadventures with overheads.Yes, I'm serious, and no< I'd never seen evidence of it.This is no knock, but since the final several people say that Djok is a >> notorious poor wind player, but on what objective metric is that based? >>Are you serious? What objective metric is it based on? You've followed tennis for all these years and you aren't aware of the fact that Djokovic underperforms and is visibly uncomfortable playing in windy conditions?
Unsupported statements are in the category of "common knowledge" of
which I am skeptical until I at least see some kind of support.
I never heard of it until someone wrote it here.
It's been talked about on social media and by commentators for a long time. Djokovic himself has talked about it. You can actually see his disdain for windy conditions during the times he has to play big matches when it's windy. It's one of those
affects his game in particular(i.e. because he's a master at re-directing the ball, the wind gets in the way of that skill for him.) You can go anywhere on the internet where there is tennis discussion and see tons of theories about it if that's whatI just did a couple of searches: "does djokovic have trouble in the
wind" and "djokovic in the wind" and the only mention I see relates to
the 2023 final, 2021 Monte Carlo.
So far, I have your word that it's a well-known fact.
As for why he tends to play poorly in windy conditions, that's for somebody else to go into in more detail. Maybe a big Djokovic fan like Pelle can shed some light on it? I've read a lot of different theories over the years as to why the wind
Well, try harder. It's there and is well-known. As I said, Djokovic himself has referred to his dislike of windy conditions. Commentators have been talking about it for a decade.Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.Not that I can see yet.
We see things differently. You didn't see any issues Djokovic had with the wind in the Wimbledon final and I didn't see any big Djokovic age factors in that match.
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 5:55:57 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 10:17:26 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: > > On 7/20/23 7:06 PM, Court_1 wrote: > > > On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:31:51 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: > > >> On 7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote: > > >>> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: > > >>>> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r7/20/23 12:10 PM, Court_1 wrote: > > >>> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:00:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote: > > >>>> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:10:25 AM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I think Alcaraz does not have the level of self-doubt
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 5:55:57 AM UTC+3, Court_1 wrote:> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 10:17:26 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: > > On 7/20/23 7:06 PM, Court_1 wrote: > > > On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:31:51 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: > > >> On
I guess nobody likes if really, but Nadal with his topspin and safety margins is least affected.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/mar/23/andy-murray-rafael-nadal-atp-masters-series-tennis
Murray outclassed as Nadal claims Masters title in Indian Wells
Spaniard wins comfortably, 6-1, 6-2
Scot fails to handle windy conditions
The flater you hit, the more you're troubled by the wind.
--
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On 7/20/23 8:20 PM, Court_1 wrote:> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:15:01 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:>> On 7/20/23 7:55 PM, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.>>>> Not that I can see yet.>>>Well, try harder. It's there and is well-known.>> You say...> I'm not making it up, lol. It IS well-known.>>>>>> As I said, Djokovic himself has referred to his dislike of windy conditions. Commentators have been talking about it for a decade.>> Not
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:15:01 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/20/23 7:55 PM, Court_1 wrote:I'm not making it up, lol. It IS well-known.
You say...Well, try harder. It's there and is well-known.Who knows but his troubles in windy conditions are well-known that's for sure.Not that I can see yet.
subject of Djokovic's struggles with the wind.I agree that it was the same wind Alcaraz dealt with but that doesn't change the reality that for whatever reason, Djokovic hates and has issues with windy conditions. Grif, are you there? You're a big Djokovic fan. Tell Sawfish what you know on theAs I said, Djokovic himself has referred to his dislike of windy conditions. Commentators have been talking about it for a decade.Not that I found.
We see things differently. You didn't see any issues Djokovic had with the windOh, I saw it a bit.
It was the same wind that Alcaraz dealt with, is how I saw it.
in the Wimbledon final and I didn't see any big Djokovic age factors in that match.So you did get around to watching it?
Ok, I have to go stack the dishwasher and read a bit before bed.I'm reading McCarthy's next to last novel, The Passenger. I forget just
Ciao.
I'm not making it up, lol. It IS well-known.Well, try harder. It's there and is well-known.You say...
subject of Djokovic's struggles with the wind.I agree that it was the same wind Alcaraz dealt with but that doesn't change the reality that for whatever reason, Djokovic hates and has issues with windy conditions. Grif, are you there? You're a big Djokovic fan. Tell Sawfish what you know on theAs I said, Djokovic himself has referred to his dislike of windy conditions. Commentators have been talking about it for a decade.Not that I found.
We see things differently. You didn't see any issues Djokovic had with the windOh, I saw it a bit.
It was the same wind that Alcaraz dealt with, is how I saw it.
in the Wimbledon final and I didn't see any big Djokovic age factors in that match.So you did get around to watching it?
Ok, I have to go stack the dishwasher and read a bit before bed.I'm reading McCarthy's next to last novel, The Passenger. I forget just
how good he can be. This is not one of them, but was still no waste of time.
I'm going to drop the thread, Court. Neither one of us will give in,
it's relatively unimportant (it is what it is), and I don't want to
argue anymore. But no hard feelings, for sure.
I'll be on another thread, maybe after we see some more of both guys.
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