It was due like 7-8 years ago.
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all thewhile.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:rwhile.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all the
Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But with no other rivals, Alcaraz could win multiple Calendar Slams, and may even surpass Djokovic in total Slams in only 7-8 more years.
Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:rwhile.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all the
Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays >injury free.
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all the
Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:
It was due like 7-8 years ago.
He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good
player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the
boatloads. That's how good he has been all the while.
You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.
On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 21:00:41 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all
Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
you seem to have forgotten that Zverev absolutely whooped him at FO last year. Asked elsewhere why does anyone think he's good on clay? seems to me that despite being Spanish, he's so different that clay is actually Alcaraz's worst surface.I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 yearsTechnicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to
ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a
good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the
boatloads. That's how good he has been all the while.You may now hop
onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here
to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he
showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget
what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first
time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win
today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 21:00:41 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all the
you seem to have forgotten that Zverev absolutely whooped him at FO last year. Asked elsewhere why does anyone think he's good on clay? seems to me that despite being Spanish, he's so different that clay is actually Alcaraz's worst surface.Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:24:17 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and thenSpaniard = clay court expert is practically based on Bruguera-Courier FO final 1994 outcome.
confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true is
a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Similarly = clown era about 20y ago is based on single Fed-Roddick Wimb 2004 final match.
Had they been reversed (they were close calls, especially FO 1994 case).
But then you can read personal biases off from real analysis.
.m.ikko
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true is
a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
On 7/17/23 8:35 AM, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:24:17 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and thenSpaniard = clay court expert is practically based on Bruguera-Courier FO final 1994 outcome.
confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true is >> a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Similarly = clown era about 20y ago is based on single Fed-Roddick Wimb 2004 final match.
Had they been reversed (they were close calls, especially FO 1994 case).
But then you can read personal biases off from real analysis.
.m.ikko
I don't have any trouble spotting personal biases. What puzzles the heck
out of me is *why* people want to make their personal biases so public
when they have no reason to do so.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:42:56 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 8:35 AM, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:24:17 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then >> confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true isSpaniard = clay court expert is practically based on Bruguera-Courier FO final 1994 outcome.
a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Similarly = clown era about 20y ago is based on single Fed-Roddick Wimb 2004 final match.
Had they been reversed (they were close calls, especially FO 1994 case).
But then you can read personal biases off from real analysis.
.m.ikko
I don't have any trouble spotting personal biases. What puzzles the heck out of me is *why* people want to make their personal biases so public when they have no reason to do so.
As like me, or you, or anyone else. Just want to say something just for sake of saying and create sayings from a top of head. Very present in any "political issues" stuff.
Normal stuff. Nothing to worry about.
mikko
It was due like 7-8 years ago.
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all the
Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeableI'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all the
I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
My gosh! I'd be shocked if that was Djokovic's last slam. The overreactions are hilarious to me.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam. >>> I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeableI'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
He IS that good.
I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:Ok, we'll find out soon. I hope you're right. My feeling right now is that they will split wins.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:He IS that good.
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam. >>>>> I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any
match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
He IS that good.
I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.Ok, we'll find out soon. I hope you're right. My feeling right now is that they will split wins.
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:24:17 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true isSpaniard = clay court expert is practically based on Bruguera-Courier FO final 1994 outcome.
a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Similarly = clown era about 20y ago is based on single Fed-Roddick Wimb 2004 final match.
Had they been reversed (they were close calls, especially FO 1994 case).
But then you can read personal biases off from real analysis.
On July 16, PeteWasLucky wrote:
It was due like 7-8 years ago.yep, we've been waiting for a kid like this - https://www.pinterest.com/pin/246290673342240162/
oh wait - https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/jpg-6.jpeg
Has anyone ever seen them in the same room, at the same time? https://www.pinterest.com/pin/377809856214499187/
On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 16:35:05 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:24:17 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true is a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.Spaniard = clay court expert is practically based on Bruguera-Courier FO final 1994 outcome.
Similarly = clown era about 20y ago is based on single Fed-Roddick Wimb 2004 final match.
Had they been reversed (they were close calls, especially FO 1994 case).
But then you can read personal biases off from real analysis.so Fed beating absolutely everyone except Nadal and Gasquet in an entire year does not indicate a clown era? how about Denko losing 12+ games in a row to Fed after being ahead of him at a slam??
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeableI'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
He IS that good.
I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all
I think you certainly could be right.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 more.
He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him to
beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning window
will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 AO.
Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That
would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody
can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and Alcaraz were
his rivals : )
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 1:02:40 PM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
He IS that good.
Their h2h at present is 2-1 to Alcaraz. And the only loss was at RG where he untypically cramped up due to the pressure of facing Joker for the first time in a slam. That's unlikely to happen again!I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.Ok, we'll find out soon. I hope you're right. My feeling right now is that they will split wins.
On 7/17/23 6:58 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 21:00:41 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
you seem to have forgotten that Zverev absolutely whooped him at FO
last year. Asked elsewhere why does anyone think he's good on clay?
seems to me that despite being Spanish, he's so different that clay is
actually Alcaraz's worst surface.
So far there's reason to think this is true.
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true is
a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 05:18:31 UTC+1, Tuan wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 1:02:40 PM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeableI'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
He IS that good.
does that mean Alcaraz is only top 100 player to have a positive h2h vs Djoker? Kyrgios?Their h2h at present is 2-1 to Alcaraz. And the only loss was at RG where he untypically cramped up due to the pressure of facing Joker for the first time in a slam. That's unlikely to happen again!I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.Ok, we'll find out soon. I hope you're right. My feeling right now is that they will split wins.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 11:27:09 UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 more.
He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him to
beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning window
will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 AO.
Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That
would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody
can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and Alcaraz were
his rivals : )
yes agree with this, think what is good is we should get some really good matches/finals now with Djoker vs Alcaraz.
On 18/07/2023 1:24 am, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:58 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 21:00:41 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
you seem to have forgotten that Zverev absolutely whooped him at FO
last year. Asked elsewhere why does anyone think he's good on clay?
seems to me that despite being Spanish, he's so different that clay
is actually Alcaraz's worst surface.
So far there's reason to think this is true.
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then
confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true
is a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Well he has won what 7 titles on clay already, and beat Rafa & Novak
back to back on clay. The scary thing is clay really is a perfect
surface for him,
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html >>>>
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was
at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player.Â
That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 11:27:09 UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:yes agree with this, think what is good is we should get some really good matches/finals now with Djoker vs Alcaraz.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 more.
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him to
beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning window
will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 AO.
Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That
would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody
can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and Alcaraz were
his rivals : )
On 7/18/23 4:27 AM, The Iceberg wrote:player", truly, not a baseliner who comes to the net just for form, just to give an opponent something to think about, we had better have Alcaraz's photo somewhere close by, for people to see an example.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 11:27:09 UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:yes agree with this, think what is good is we should get some really good matches/finals now with Djoker vs Alcaraz.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 more.
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him to
beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning window
will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 AO.
Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That
would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody
can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and Alcaraz were
his rivals : )
This is possible/probable.
But *what* specifically, would Djok need to do to counter Alcaraz? I mean, even Alcaraz, himself, doesn't fully know what he's capable of. I'm sitting here watching him develop new stuff in the course of a tournament. When we speak of an "all court
What I'm seeing with Alcaraz is a seamless application of tactical responses, and there is, right now, nothing I can think of that he does not have in the way of a response. At this point in his career, he has no need of strategy, and this is becausehe has an effective tactical response for everything an opponent can throw at him. Strategy is simply an advance plan to avoid stuff you don't do better than the other guy. He has no need of this.
I mean, a monster server, on a good day, can minimize Alcaraz's returns, but any hiccup whatsoever and he's likely to be down a break to Alcaraz. And Alcaraz has many, many ways to beat an opponent than to just have a superior return game that day.
It would be fun to mentally match up Alcaraz vs the best player on tour in each specific aspect of the game.
Who would win at least 55 out of 100 rally points vs Alcaraz?
Who can return serve 6 out of 10 times better than Alcaraz?
Who has a better defense, the ability to work back from a defensive position to an offensive position, than Alcaraz?
These aren't rhetorical questions. There may be guys out there who are consistently better than Alcaraz in these areas, but I'm not familiar enough with many of players to know who.
There more I think about it, he is a *very scary* player...
On 7/18/23 4:27 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 11:27:09 UTC+1, Whisper wrote:This is possible/probable.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:yes agree with this, think what is good is we should get some really good matches/finals now with Djoker vs Alcaraz.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 more. >> He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him to
beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning window >> will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 AO.
Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That
would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody
can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and Alcaraz were
his rivals : )
But *what* specifically, would Djok need to do to counter Alcaraz? I
mean, even Alcaraz, himself, doesn't fully know what he's capable of.
I'm sitting here watching him develop new stuff in the course of a tournament. When we speak of an "all court player", truly, not a
baseliner who comes to the net just for form, just to give an opponent something to think about, we had better have Alcaraz's photo somewhere
close by, for people to see an example.
What I'm seeing with Alcaraz is a seamless application of tactical responses, and there is, right now, nothing I can think of that he does
not have in the way of a response. At this point in his career, he has
no need of strategy, and this is because he has an effective tactical response for everything an opponent can throw at him. Strategy is simply
an advance plan to avoid stuff you don't do better than the other guy.
He has no need of this.
I mean, a monster server, on a good day, can minimize Alcaraz's returns,
but any hiccup whatsoever and he's likely to be down a break to Alcaraz.
And Alcaraz has many, many ways to beat an opponent than to just have a superior return game that day.
It would be fun to mentally match up Alcaraz vs the best player on tour
in each specific aspect of the game.
Who would win at least 55 out of 100 rally points vs Alcaraz?
Who can return serve 6 out of 10 times better than Alcaraz?
Who has a better defense, the ability to work back from a defensive
position to an offensive position, than Alcaraz?
These aren't rhetorical questions. There may be guys out there who are consistently better than Alcaraz in these areas, but I'm not familiar
enough with many of players to know who.
There more I think about it, he is a *very scary* player...
--
--Sawfish
On 18/07/2023 1:24 am, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:58 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 16 July 2023 at 21:00:41 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
you seem to have forgotten that Zverev absolutely whooped him at FO
last year. Asked elsewhere why does anyone think he's good on clay?
seems to me that despite being Spanish, he's so different that clay
is actually Alcaraz's worst surface.
So far there's reason to think this is true.
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and then
confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true
is a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Well he has won what 7 titles on clay already, and beat Rafa & Novak
back to back on clay.
The scary thing is clay really is a perfect surface for him, huge servers/hitters having a 'career best day' are less of a threat forI can agree with this.
him on clay. So the fact he's already won Wimbledon and USO suggests
the sky is the limit at all slams.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:29:12 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:That was then; this is now, and into the future, Ice.
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:did you miss Djoker whooping him at the FO?
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:He IS that good.
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam. >>>>> I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any
match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.
you know it could well be that Djoker does what he did to Sinner this Wimbledon. Last year Sinner took Djoker to 5 sets, this year Djoker knew what he was dealing with and gave him a real good thrashing!Sinner does not equal Alcaraz, surely.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all
why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.I think you certainly could be right.Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam. >>> I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html >>>>
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was
at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many
as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 11:37:09 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote: > > On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote: > >> PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > >>>> Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO wasprobably Djok's last > >>>> slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup > >>>> Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as > >>
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:16:54 PM UTC+3, The Iceberg wrote:
On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 16:35:05 UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 6:24:17 PM UTC+3, Sawfish wrote:so Fed beating absolutely everyone except Nadal and Gasquet in an entire year does not indicate a clown era? how about Denko losing 12+ games in a row to Fed after being ahead of him at a slam??
Anyone who immediately thinks "Spaniard = clay court expert" and thenSpaniard = clay court expert is practically based on Bruguera-Courier FO final 1994 outcome.
confidently says this publicly without waiting to see if this is true is >>>> a pretty dumb fucker, that's for sure.
Similarly = clown era about 20y ago is based on single Fed-Roddick Wimb 2004 final match.
Had they been reversed (they were close calls, especially FO 1994 case). >>>
But then you can read personal biases off from real analysis.
Was it times, when Nadal > Fed?
if this - Nadal had even more clown era if Fed lesser than Nadal, right?
.mikko
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html >>>>
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was
at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many
as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html >>>>>>
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was
at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player.
That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in
reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many
as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> "Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it." >>
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all
Because Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young,why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.I think you certainly could be right.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
more confident and much better overall than Stan.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 1:02:40 PM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 5:19 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 8:16:39 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:Really? I doubt it. I've seen so many Djokovic reincarnations that I'm skeptical that Alcaraz has put the stake in Djokovic's heart.
I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
He IS that good.
I think Djok should never be considered the favorite vs Alcaraz in any match on any surface. 5 years ago, I would not say that.Ok, we'll find out soon. I hope you're right. My feeling right now is that they will split wins.
Their h2h at present is 2-1 to Alcaraz. And the only loss was at RG where he untypically cramped up due to the pressure of facing Joker for the first time in a slam. That's unlikely to happen again!
I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.
On 7/18/23 7:39 PM, Court_1 wrote:all the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been
Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
can still do that. He has ONE guy who is a threat. Alcaraz has had some injury issues so who knows what will transpire with him?You're correct. He now has a younger player to be scared of. But that will motivate him more IMO. What record does he have left to surpass? What he'll want to do now is get a few more slams to ensure the slam record won't ever be broken(likely.) HeBecause Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young, >> more confident and much better overall than Stan.why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
Djokovic battled closely in the W final. If I few more points went his way he would have won it.
I think it's foolish to write him off just yet. This guy is one tough competitor. He is the youngest of the big three and has more slams for a reason. If Alcaraz beats Djokovic at the AO(where Djokovic is king) then we can re-think things.OK.
I'll be pleased if he wins more. But we'll really have to see. What I *thought* I saw while watching the match is not encouraging.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been all
still do that. He has ONE guy who is a threat. Alcaraz has had some injury issues so who knows what will transpire with him?You're correct. He now has a younger player to be scared of. But that will motivate him more IMO. What record does he have left to surpass? What he'll want to do now is get a few more slams to ensure the slam record won't ever be broken(likely.) He canBecause Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young,why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.I think you certainly could be right.Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam. >>>>> I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
more confident and much better overall than Stan.
Djokovic battled closely in the W final. If I few more points went his way he would have won it.
I think it's foolish to write him off just yet. This guy is one tough competitor. He is the youngest of the big three and has more slams for a reason. If Alcaraz beats Djokovic at the AO(where Djokovic is king) then we can re-think things.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:52:30 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:
I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.I agree. It's ridiculous to say Djokovic looks sluggish. I mean, are people serious? And yes, Djokovic performs the possum act like no other. Anybody who falls for it is a nitwit.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:01:58 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:all the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/18/23 7:39 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been
can still do that. He has ONE guy who is a threat. Alcaraz has had some injury issues so who knows what will transpire with him?You're correct. He now has a younger player to be scared of. But that will motivate him more IMO. What record does he have left to surpass? What he'll want to do now is get a few more slams to ensure the slam record won't ever be broken(likely.) HeBecause Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young, >>>> more confident and much better overall than Stan.why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.I think you certainly could be right.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury free.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
Who is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.OK.
Djokovic battled closely in the W final. If I few more points went his way he would have won it.
I think it's foolish to write him off just yet. This guy is one tough competitor. He is the youngest of the big three and has more slams for a reason. If Alcaraz beats Djokovic at the AO(where Djokovic is king) then we can re-think things.
I'll be pleased if he wins more. But we'll really have to see. What I
*thought* I saw while watching the match is not encouraging.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html >>>
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was
at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player.
That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many
as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
On 7/18/23 9:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
Who is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.
I don't see them like that. They're like the Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles, each with their own specialties.
Since I know none of them personally, and never will, I can't really
like any of them aside from their approach to tennis.
...and all of them are damned admirable in that pursuit.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 9:18:28 PM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 9:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:Come on, you should know that's not allowed here. It's fine not to favor any of them, but you have to hate at least one with an undying passion. The RST charter stipulates this on page 11, line 23, clause 14b. Trust me on this.
Who is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.I don't see them like that. They're like the Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles, each with their own specialties.
Since I know none of them personally, and never will, I can't really
like any of them aside from their approach to tennis.
...and all of them are damned admirable in that pursuit.
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be in
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play. >> Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the
fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations.
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:47:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:charge for most of the match. Alcaraz reacting. I think Djoker would still be fave against anyone anywhere until I see a convincing loss.
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be in
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>>>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>>>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>>>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>>>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>>>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >>>> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play. >>>> Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >>>> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the
fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble
starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have
ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> "It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:47:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:charge for most of the match. Alcaraz reacting. I think Djoker would still be fave against anyone anywhere until I see a convincing loss.
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be in
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>>>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>>>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>>>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>>>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>>>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >>>> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play. >>>> Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >>>> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the
fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble
starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have
ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> "It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 7/18/23 7:41 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:52:30 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:
Let's be clear.I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.I agree. It's ridiculous to say Djokovic looks sluggish. I mean, are people serious? And yes, Djokovic performs the possum act like no other. Anybody who falls for it is a nitwit.
I'm NOT talking about how he comports himself between points, appearing fatigued for whatever reason, real or feigned.
I'm talking about the same thing I saw in Nadal about 3 years
ago,getting stretched in one direct and losing a step in turning and
going back in the opposite direct. With each cross court shot in a
rally, the older player such as Rafa, and maybe now Djok, loses distance
to the ball. Soon they are not able to get back and they lose the point
to a wide winner that they could have routinely kept in play only a few years prior.
That is, specifically, what I saw starting in the 4th set.
Maybe you didn't see it, or you conclude otherwise for whatever the
reason, but I';; stick with my own observation.
On 7/18/23 9:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:all the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:01:58 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 7:39 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been
free.Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury
can still do that. He has ONE guy who is a threat. Alcaraz has had some injury issues so who knows what will transpire with him?You're correct. He now has a younger player to be scared of. But that will motivate him more IMO. What record does he have left to surpass? What he'll want to do now is get a few more slams to ensure the slam record won't ever be broken(likely.) HeBecause Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young, >>>> more confident and much better overall than Stan.why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again.
I don't see them like that. They're like the Teenage Mutant NinjaWho is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.OK.
Djokovic battled closely in the W final. If I few more points went his way he would have won it.
I think it's foolish to write him off just yet. This guy is one tough competitor. He is the youngest of the big three and has more slams for a reason. If Alcaraz beats Djokovic at the AO(where Djokovic is king) then we can re-think things.
I'll be pleased if he wins more. But we'll really have to see. What I
*thought* I saw while watching the match is not encouraging.
Turtles, each with their own specialties.
Since I know none of them personally, and never will, I can't really
like any of them aside from their approach to tennis.
...and all of them are damned admirable in that pursuit.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:18:28 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:been all the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/18/23 9:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:01:58 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 7:39 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has
free.Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury
He can still do that. He has ONE guy who is a threat. Alcaraz has had some injury issues so who knows what will transpire with him?You're correct. He now has a younger player to be scared of. But that will motivate him more IMO. What record does he have left to surpass? What he'll want to do now is get a few more slams to ensure the slam record won't ever be broken(likely.)Because Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young,I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeableI'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again. >>>>> why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.
more confident and much better overall than Stan.
I don't see them like that. They're like the Teenage Mutant NinjaWho is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.OK.
Djokovic battled closely in the W final. If I few more points went his way he would have won it.
I think it's foolish to write him off just yet. This guy is one tough competitor. He is the youngest of the big three and has more slams for a reason. If Alcaraz beats Djokovic at the AO(where Djokovic is king) then we can re-think things.
I'll be pleased if he wins more. But we'll really have to see. What I >> *thought* I saw while watching the match is not encouraging.
Turtles, each with their own specialties.
Since I know none of them personally, and never will, I can't really
like any of them aside from their approach to tennis.
...and all of them are damned admirable in that pursuit.
That's a good way to view it. You're must less likely to become a delusional fanatic.
On 7/19/23 11:45 AM, undecided wrote:charge for most of the match. Alcaraz reacting. I think Djoker would still be fave against anyone anywhere until I see a convincing loss.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:47:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be in
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 >>>>> more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>>>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>>>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him >>>>> to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>>>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>>>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>>>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king >>>>> nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And >>>> yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of >>>> timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially, >>>> works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I >>>> watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >>>> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of >>>> play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >>>> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running >> him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the
fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble
starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at >> the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have
ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It >> is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations. >>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me ask, in all respect: have you noticed a deterioration in Rafa's tennis abilities? If not, fine; if so, what are the differences?
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Doncha know,Oh yeah, Rafa (even before the recent spat of injuries) had started to give up on points that were perceived to be tough to get to and reset the point. He also started missing a LOT of his patented banana down the alley and into the court shots. He still
That it's a shame and a pity
You were raised
Up in the city
And you never learned nothin'
'bout country ways."
--Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:13:16 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 7:41 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:52:30 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:Let's be clear.
I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.I agree. It's ridiculous to say Djokovic looks sluggish. I mean, are people serious? And yes, Djokovic performs the possum act like no other. Anybody who falls for it is a nitwit.
I'm NOT talking about how he comports himself between points, appearing
fatigued for whatever reason, real or feigned.
I'm talking about the same thing I saw in Nadal about 3 years
ago,getting stretched in one direct and losing a step in turning and
going back in the opposite direct. With each cross court shot in a
rally, the older player such as Rafa, and maybe now Djok, loses distance
to the ball. Soon they are not able to get back and they lose the point
to a wide winner that they could have routinely kept in play only a few
years prior.
That is, specifically, what I saw starting in the 4th set.
Maybe you didn't see it, or you conclude otherwise for whatever the
reason, but I';; stick with my own observation.
I haven't watched the match in full but have watched the highlights. I saw Djokovic made uncharacteristic errors. Is that due to age? I don't know but I think he made those errors because Alcaraz is no Sinner and he felt some pressure for once.
To me, whatever he's lost in speed(and it ain't much) and other areas, he's made up for by improving in other areas.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:13:16 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:In honesty, I'd say that toward the end of the match, Djokovich began to
On 7/18/23 7:41 PM, Court_1 wrote:I haven't watched the match in full but have watched the highlights. I saw Djokovic made uncharacteristic errors. Is that due to age? I don't know but I think he made those errors because Alcaraz is no Sinner and he felt some pressure for once.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:52:30 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:Let's be clear.
I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.I agree. It's ridiculous to say Djokovic looks sluggish. I mean, are people serious? And yes, Djokovic performs the possum act like no other. Anybody who falls for it is a nitwit.
I'm NOT talking about how he comports himself between points, appearing
fatigued for whatever reason, real or feigned.
I'm talking about the same thing I saw in Nadal about 3 years
ago,getting stretched in one direct and losing a step in turning and
going back in the opposite direct. With each cross court shot in a
rally, the older player such as Rafa, and maybe now Djok, loses distance
to the ball. Soon they are not able to get back and they lose the point
to a wide winner that they could have routinely kept in play only a few
years prior.
That is, specifically, what I saw starting in the 4th set.
Maybe you didn't see it, or you conclude otherwise for whatever the
reason, but I';; stick with my own observation.
To me, whatever he's lost in speed(and it ain't much) and other areas, he's made up for by improving in other areas.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:09:34 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:charge for most of the match. Alcaraz reacting. I think Djoker would still be fave against anyone anywhere until I see a convincing loss.
On 7/19/23 11:45 AM, undecided wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:47:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be in
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 >>>>>>> more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>>>>>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>>>>>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him >>>>>>> to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>>>>>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning >>>>>>> window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>>>>>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>>>>>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king >>>>>>> nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and >>>>>>> Alcaraz were his rivals : )
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last >>>>>>>>>> slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>>>>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago. >>>>>>>>
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost >>>>>>>> certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And >>>>>> yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of >>>>>> timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially, >>>>>> works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I >>>>>> watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >>>>>> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play. >>>>>> Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of >>>>>> play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >>>>>> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running >>>> him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the >>>> fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble
starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at >>>> the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have
ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It >>>> is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations. >>>>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still makes them but his percentage is way down.Let me ask, in all respect: have you noticed a deterioration in Rafa'sOh yeah, Rafa (even before the recent spat of injuries) had started to give up on points that were perceived to be tough to get to and reset the point. He also started missing a LOT of his patented banana down the alley and into the court shots. He
tennis abilities? If not, fine; if so, what are the differences?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> "Doncha know,
That it's a shame and a pity
You were raised
Up in the city
And you never learned nothin'
'bout country ways."
--Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Djoker on the other hand seems to revel getting into those kinds of acute angle rallies. He loves it, he entices the opponents to go there.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:18:28 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:all the while.You may now hop onto the wagon and be a good fanboi.-- "And off they went, from here to there,The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"-- Traditional
On 7/18/23 9:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:01:58 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 7:39 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:26:44 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:20 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 01:16:39 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/17/23 4:45 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:00:41 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/16/23 11:34 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.los> Wrote in message:r
On 16.7.2023 21.05, PeteWasLucky wrote:> It was due like 7-8 years ago.He was real, real good before the match. He didn't turn into a good player with the win. These wins are bound to go his way by the boatloads. That's how good he has been
free.Technicality and physicality, I never said he wasn't good, I wanted to believe he got the will and the mental strength of champions and he showed today he got it.
I didn't watch the match, but I believed that it was tough to forget what happened in the FO and beat Djokovic playing him for the first time on grass. I believe being very good and younger gave him the win today. Hopefully he stays injury
can still do that. He has ONE guy who is a threat. Alcaraz has had some injury issues so who knows what will transpire with him?You're correct. He now has a younger player to be scared of. But that will motivate him more IMO. What record does he have left to surpass? What he'll want to do now is get a few more slams to ensure the slam record won't ever be broken(likely.) HeBecause Djok now has someone to be scared of, like Wawrinka. But young, >>>>>> more confident and much better overall than Stan.I think you certainly could be right.He is going to be very tough for anyone to beat in the foreseeable >>>>>>>>>> future. Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last slam.I'll take that bet! It's not Djokovic's last slam!
But it's hard to see him beating Alcaraz in a final ever again. >>>>>>> why exactly is it hard when he took him to 5 sets and Djoker was one drive-volley away from winning in the first game of the 5th? not like Alcaraz steam-rolled him.
That's a good way to view it. You're must less likely to become a delusional fanatic.I don't see them like that. They're like the Teenage Mutant NinjaWho is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.OK.
Djokovic battled closely in the W final. If I few more points went his way he would have won it.
I think it's foolish to write him off just yet. This guy is one tough competitor. He is the youngest of the big three and has more slams for a reason. If Alcaraz beats Djokovic at the AO(where Djokovic is king) then we can re-think things.
I'll be pleased if he wins more. But we'll really have to see. What I
*thought* I saw while watching the match is not encouraging.
Turtles, each with their own specialties.
Since I know none of them personally, and never will, I can't really
like any of them aside from their approach to tennis.
...and all of them are damned admirable in that pursuit.
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
Unless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play. >> Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the
fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations.
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 9:18:28 PM UTC-7, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 9:10 PM, Court_1 wrote:
Who is your favorite Big Three player? I don't even know.
I don't see them like that. They're like the Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles, each with their own specialties.
Since I know none of them personally, and never will, I can't really
like any of them aside from their approach to tennis.
...and all of them are damned admirable in that pursuit.Come on, you should know that's not allowed here. It's fine not to favor any of them, but you have to hate at least one with an undying passion. The RST charter stipulates this on page 11, line 23, clause 14b. Trust me on this.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:13:16 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 7:41 PM, Court_1 wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 2:52:30 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:
Let's be clear.I disagree about Djoker looking sluggish. That's the possum shit he pulls against opponents right before he eviscerates them. He played a much more grueling tournament at the French and he was fine.I agree. It's ridiculous to say Djokovic looks sluggish. I mean, are people serious? And yes, Djokovic performs the possum act like no other. Anybody who falls for it is a nitwit.
I'm NOT talking about how he comports himself between points, appearing fatigued for whatever reason, real or feigned.
I'm talking about the same thing I saw in Nadal about 3 years
ago,getting stretched in one direct and losing a step in turning and
going back in the opposite direct. With each cross court shot in a
rally, the older player such as Rafa, and maybe now Djok, loses distance to the ball. Soon they are not able to get back and they lose the point
to a wide winner that they could have routinely kept in play only a few years prior.
That is, specifically, what I saw starting in the 4th set.
Maybe you didn't see it, or you conclude otherwise for whatever the reason, but I';; stick with my own observation.I haven't watched the match in full but have watched the highlights. I saw Djokovic made uncharacteristic errors. Is that due to age? I don't know but I think he made those errors because Alcaraz is no Sinner and he felt some pressure for once.
To me, whatever he's lost in speed(and it ain't much) and other areas, he's made up for by improving in other areas.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:09:34 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:in charge for most of the match. Alcaraz reacting. I think Djoker would still be fave against anyone anywhere until I see a convincing loss.
On 7/19/23 11:45 AM, undecided wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:47:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote: >>>> On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:There's more to it than that.
He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 >>>>> more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last >>>>>>>> slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago. >>>>>>
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost >>>>>> certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him >>>>> to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning >>>>> window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player.
That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king >>>>> nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and >>>>> Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And >>>> yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of >>>> timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially, >>>> works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I >>>> watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in
reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of >>>> play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many
as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the >> fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble
starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have
ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations. >>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me ask, in all respect: have you noticed a deterioration in Rafa's tennis abilities? If not, fine; if so, what are the differences?
still makes them but his percentage is way down. Djoker on the other hand seems to revel getting into those kinds of acute angle rallies. He loves it, he entices the opponents to go there.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Doncha know,
That it's a shame and a pity
You were raised
Up in the city
And you never learned nothin'
'bout country ways."
--Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Oh yeah, Rafa (even before the recent spat of injuries) had started to give up on points that were perceived to be tough to get to and reset the point. He also started missing a LOT of his patented banana down the alley and into the court shots. He
On 7/20/23 6:20 AM, undecided wrote:in charge for most of the match. Alcaraz reacting. I think Djoker would still be fave against anyone anywhere until I see a convincing loss.
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:09:34 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/19/23 11:45 AM, undecided wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:47:12 PM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:Sorry, I did not notice what you're talking about. Djoker had crazy cross court angle exchanges against Alcaraz. He won his fair share of them. They were only a couple of points apart at the end. It could have gone either way. Djoker looked to be
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote: >>>>>> On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:There's more to it than that.
He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2 >>>>>>> more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final,
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last >>>>>>>>>> slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as
majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago. >>>>>>>>
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost >>>>>>>> certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a
couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him >>>>>>> to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as
there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning >>>>>>> window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025
AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player.
That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king >>>>>>> nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and >>>>>>> Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And >>>>>> yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of >>>>>> timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially, >>>>>> works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I >>>>>> watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved >>>>>> sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in
reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play.
Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of >>>>>> play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many
as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
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"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
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You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the >>>> fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble >>>> starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have >>>> ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it? >>>> Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations. >>>>
--
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"It was public knowledge that Sawfish was a loner with strong misanthropic tendencies: it was rare for him to even say a word to his dog."
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still makes them but his percentage is way down.Let me ask, in all respect: have you noticed a deterioration in Rafa'sOh yeah, Rafa (even before the recent spat of injuries) had started to give up on points that were perceived to be tough to get to and reset the point. He also started missing a LOT of his patented banana down the alley and into the court shots. He
tennis abilities? If not, fine; if so, what are the differences?
--
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"Doncha know,
That it's a shame and a pity
You were raised
Up in the city
And you never learned nothin'
'bout country ways."
--Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine
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Agreed. It's exactly what I saw over the course of maybe 3 years.
Djoker on the other hand seems to revel getting into those kinds of acute angle rallies. He loves it, he entices the opponents to go there.Yes, but what I said earlier in this thread is that 4th/5th sets was the first time I saw bits of the deterioration that we both saw with
Rafa.The very first time I could say to myself: "he's lost something you
can *see*"...
Now you may have missed it, or seen it but interpreted it differently,
and that's fine. But I'll go with my own interpretation.
On Wednesday, 19 July 2023 at 00:47:12 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:unexpected cos any other player would've missed. Only thing saw Djoker slower at was serving, least compared to the Hurcatz/Sinner matches, but it was windy.
On 7/18/23 4:28 PM, Tuan wrote:examples can remember of what you describe are what Tuan said, eg. when Djoker hit a very good angled shot at Alcaraz(can remember one particular point where he was near the net and this happened) but Alkie was faster enough to hit it back, that was
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:37:09 AM UTC+10, Sawfish wrote:There's more to it than that.
On 7/18/23 3:26 AM, Whisper wrote:He had troubles in reversing direction simply because of Alcaraz using all four corners of the court, and doing that very quickly and unexpectedly compared with any other players.
On 17/07/2023 6:31 am, *skriptis wrote:Here's where it's getting pretty damned hard for Djokovich.
PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rUnless Carlos goes on a real tear I think Novak has a chance of 2
Barring injury to Alcaraz, the FO was probably Djok's last
slam.Probably true.----Android NewsGroup
Reader----https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
I had a dream he's going to end up with 25, with Olympics counted as >>>>>> majors but doesn't say he wins it or not. Couple of years ago.
So it could be AO + Olympics or some other 2 slams.
It felt a lot back then then when I dreamed it, it felt almost
certain and kinda too little at some point when hype around him was >>>>>> at its maximum, but today it feels about right.
25.
Two more. Let's see if I dream well.
more. He played a great Wimbledon and was superb in most of the final, >>>>> especially sets 1, 4 and 5. He was also great in set 2 really, just a >>>>> couple key points didn't go his way. He's human. I still expect him
to beat everyone else, and who knows he may even beat Carlos at USO as >>>>> there is no calendar slam pressure? I think Novak's slam winning
window will remain open at least the next 2 slams, and as long as 2025 >>>>> AO. Let's hope Novak has 1 more rivalry with a 3rd goat level player. >>>>> That would be a unique feat. If Novak ends up as all time slam king
nobody can argue it was because of weak era - Federer, Nadal and
Alcaraz were his rivals : )
1) He now needs much more rest/recovery time between tournaments, And
yet if he tapers back too much, he also loses the very fine honing of
timing. It's a devil's choice.
2) The length of the majors, two weeks, is sapping. This, especially,
works to his disadvantage. Anyone can say anything they like, but I
watched the final, and there's no doubt in my mind that he moved
sluggishly for at least the last 3 sets. Really, really had troubles in >>>> reversing direction as compared to *any* other match I've seen him play. >>>> Not in comparison to Alcaraz, but in comparison to his own level of
play. I'd attribute most of this the being 37 and having played as many >>>> as 7 matches, each of which might take 5 sets of play.
The final was about 5 hours, is this right?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reality is that thing that does not go away when you stop believing in it."
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You note that Alcaraz had no such problems, even though Djok was running
him side to side. In former years Djok, and Nadal, could also make the
fast reversals. Then you could see Nadal having exactly this trouble
starting maybe 3-4 years ago. I noted it. I did not note this in Djok at
the time. I noted it, for sure, by the 4th set on Sunday.
You're of course free to disagree, So far as I'm concerned, you have
ownership of the thought that Djok has not, as they say, lost a step. It
is, specifically, the stop and reversal: how smooth and quick is it?
Djok labored with that aspect from the 4th on.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations.
Out of interest do you think then Djoker tanked the 3rd set then to give himself a rest?
On Wednesday, 19 July 2023 at 00:47:12 UTC+1, Sawfish wrote:unexpected cos any other player would've missed. Only thing saw Djoker slower at was serving, least compared to the Hurcatz/Sinner matches, but it was windy.
Maybe you saw something different; I'll stick with my own observations.
examples can remember of what you describe are what Tuan said, eg. when Djoker hit a very good angled shot at Alcaraz(can remember one particular point where he was near the net and this happened) but Alkie was faster enough to hit it back, that was
Out of interest do you think then Djoker tanked the 3rd set then to give himself a rest?
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