Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time.
What matters at the end is how the player integrated all his swings together to play the game and win.
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
"gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?Backhand includes everything that comes from the backhand side, whether it's flat at times, a slice, topspin or just a bunt.
Overall reaction time, swing time, and height sweet spot matter.
Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time.
What matters at the end is how the player integrated all his swings together to play the game and win.
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Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 8:18:39PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time. Irrelevant. Borg had big swings with 2h and they were not a liability in Wimb? Bydefault a subjective approach like "big swings are bad" are iffy....> What matters at the end is how the player integrated all his swings together to play the game and win. I think this was exactly *NOT* the point. Othewise we just would look the slam
Fed. Kuerten a close second. My sentimental fave is Gaudio, but I
wouldn't call it the best.
To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player integrates it in his game.
How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:18:39PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:> "gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> > Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?> Backhand includes everything that comes from thebackhand side, whether it's flat at times, a slice, topspin or just a bunt. > > Overall reaction time, swing time, and height sweet spot matter. > > Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time. > > What
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
On 15/06/2023 18:01, MBDunc wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by
the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else!
Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind
of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is
huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern
forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
Speaking of Gasquet, he just took out Tsits. https://www.atptour.com/en/news/tsitsipas-gasquet-stuttgart-2023-thursday
"gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:rbackhand side, whether it's flat at times, a slice, topspin or just a bunt. > > Overall reaction time, swing time, and height sweet spot matter. > > Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time. > > What
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:> "gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> > Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?> Backhand includes everything that comes from the
Your original question is so dumb, and the list of players you made is a confirmation.
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On 15.6.2023 21.34, grif wrote:
On 15/06/2023 18:01, MBDunc wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote: >>>> Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
Speaking of Gasquet, he just took out Tsits.
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/tsitsipas-gasquet-stuttgart-2023-thursday
Oh, no! Soon the Ouzo will taste better than practice sessions.
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 2:40:14PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:> "gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > > On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:> "gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote inmessage:r> > Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?> Backhand includes everything that comes from the backhand side, whether it's flat at times, a slice, topspin or just a bunt. > > Overall reaction time, swing time, and
On 15/06/2023 20:17, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
On 15.6.2023 21.34, grif wrote:
On 15/06/2023 18:01, MBDunc wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote: >>>>> Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped
by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings). >>>>
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else!
Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a
kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is
huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a
modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
Speaking of Gasquet, he just took out Tsits.
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/tsitsipas-gasquet-stuttgart-2023-thursday >>>
Oh, no! Soon the Ouzo will taste better than practice sessions.
He seems kinda distracted 🤣 https://en.as.com/videos/badosa-and-tsitsipas-get-close-tennis-duo-share-new-dance-on-instagram-v/
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player integratesit in his game. > > How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass he has managed one Wimb QF? and one minor tuneup final?But Wawrinka''s problem is not his bh but his movement. He
MBDunc was excellent and Wrote in message:rintegrates it in his game. > > How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass he has managed one Wimb QF? and one minor tuneup final?But Wawrinka''s problem is not his bh but his
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19 PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player
In order to say something is better than another, you need performance metrics otherwise all judgments are personal biases. These performance metrics could be defined based on the different criteria I mentioned in my previous post.
On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 12:23:31 AM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:integrates it in his game. > > How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass he has managed one Wimb QF? and one minor tuneup final?But Wawrinka''s problem is not his bh but his
MBDunc was excellent and Wrote in message:r
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19 PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player
When you put it that way, Wawrinka, without doubt.In order to say something is better than another, you need performance metrics otherwise all judgments are personal biases. These performance metrics could be defined based on the different criteria I mentioned in my previous post.simple question: you play tennis. Whose 1h backhand you like to have.
My answer is Gasguet 1h bh.
.mikko
.
On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 12:23:31AM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> MBDunc was excellent and Wrote in message:r> > On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19 PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as apackage of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player integrates it in his game. > > How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass
On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 12:23:31 AM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:integrates it in his game. > > How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass he has managed one Wimb QF? and one minor tuneup final?But Wawrinka''s problem is not his bh but his
MBDunc was excellent and Wrote in message:r
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19 PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:> To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player
In order to say something is better than another, you need performance metrics otherwise all judgments are personal biases. These performance metrics could be defined based on the different criteria I mentioned in my previous post.
simple question: you play tennis. Whose 1h backhand you like to have.
My answer is Gasguet 1h bh.
.mikko
.
On 6/15/23 4:05 PM, MBDunc wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 12:23:31 AM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:When you put it that way, Wawrinka, without doubt.
MBDunc was excellent and Wrote in message:rsimple question: you play tennis. Whose 1h backhand you like to have.
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19 PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:>In order to say something is better than another, you need
To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a
package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of
serve, attacking, and how the player integrates it in his game. > >
How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick
question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass he has
managed one Wimb QF? and one minor tuneup final?But Wawrinka''s
problem is not his bh but his movement. He just is not agile enough
for grass..mikko
performance metrics otherwise all judgments are personal biases.
These performance metrics could be defined based on the different
criteria I mentioned in my previous post.
On 6/15/23 9:47 AM, gap...@gmail.com wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
LAVER
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 9:33:19 PM UTC+3, PeteWasLucky wrote:
To summarize what I am saying, you need to look at the backhand as a package of everything, slice, topspin, bunts, flat, ... Return of serve, attacking, and how the player integrates it in his game.
How is wawrinka return of the serve on the backhand side?Trick question? Wawrinka has played on tour for 15y+. On grass he has managed one Wimb QF? and one minor tuneup final?
But Wawrinka''s problem is not his bh but his movement. He just is not agile enough for grass.
On 15/06/2023 18:01, MBDunc wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
Speaking of Gasquet, he just took out Tsits. https://www.atptour.com/en/news/tsitsipas-gasquet-stuttgart-2023-thursday
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 6:01:47 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:makes errors or hits short on that wing. He doesn’t return big serves well. Wawrinka and Kuerten have far superior backhands.
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikkoGasquet backhand is the most overrated shot in the history of tennis. He hits some flashy winners for the highlights real, but a good shot is supposed to be a tool for winning matches. Gasquets huge backhand swing forces him deep in the court. He often
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 2:40:14 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:backhand side, whether it's flat at times, a slice, topspin or just a bunt. > > Overall reaction time, swing time, and height sweet spot matter. > > Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time. > > What
"gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:> "gap...@gmail.com" <gap...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> > Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?> Backhand includes everything that comes from the
Your original question is so dumb, and the list of players you made is a confirmation.
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----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.htmlDumb fukking arab?
On Friday, 16 June 2023 at 13:55:06 UTC+1, me wrote:often makes errors or hits short on that wing. He doesn’t return big serves well. Wawrinka and Kuerten have far superior backhands.
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 6:01:47 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote:
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
Whatsayu Iceman?
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikkoGasquet backhand is the most overrated shot in the history of tennis. He hits some flashy winners for the highlights real, but a good shot is supposed to be a tool for winning matches. Gasquets huge backhand swing forces him deep in the court. He
no they definitely don't, Stan vs Gasquet a few years ago proved that, they went bh to bh in several rallies and Gasquet out-hit him. Seriously before that may well have agreed Stan's was better due it smashing Djoker to bits, but Gasquet stepped it upmono-a-mono and proved a point, was amazing.
On Friday, 16 June 2023 at 13:55:06 UTC+1, me wrote:often makes errors or hits short on that wing. He doesn’t return big serves well. Wawrinka and Kuerten have far superior backhands.
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 6:01:47 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 7:47:13 PM UTC+3, gap cupped and wrote: >>>> Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Gasquet backhand is the most overrated shot in the history of tennis. He hits some flashy winners for the highlights real, but a good shot is supposed to be a tool for winning matches. Gasquets huge backhand swing forces him deep in the court. He
Whatsayu Iceman?may be wood-era it was overally Rosewall.
may be during "transition time" it was about Edberg and may be Stich.
But Kuerten took it to another level. Totally another level (helped by the fact that he was 1st slam winner with effective synth strings).
All that saying:
Gasquet->Kuerten->Wawrinka.
Gasquet wins this because .... he just does not have anything else! Kuerten had great serve/great fh/great tough. Wawrinka had also a kind of a complete package.
But Gasquet had nothing but his BH.... and as a "minor weapon" it is huge achievement for him to get this far. If only he had had a modern forehand or better serve and/or better pro attitude...?
.mikko
no they definitely don't, Stan vs Gasquet a few years ago proved that, they went bh to bh in several rallies and Gasquet out-hit him. Seriously before that may well have agreed Stan's was better due it smashing Djoker to bits, but Gasquet stepped it upmono-a-mono and proved a point, was amazing.
"gap...@gmail.com" <gapp111@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r> Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?Whatsayu Iceman?Backhand includes everything that comes from the backhand side, whether it's flat at times, a slice, topspin or just a bunt.Overall reaction time, swing time, and height sweet spot matter.Big swings are great but are a liability on fast surfaces or when someone takes away your time.What matters at the end is how the player integrated all his swings together to play the game
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:slice backhand..
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,slice backhand..
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:slice backhand..
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:slice backhand..
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
She knows as much about 10s as Uly about racket sizes. !!!
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:slice backhand..
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:31:10 PM UTC+1, The Iceberg wrote:slice backhand..
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
meetings!Silly old Fed, letting his weak backhand get him a break down in the 5th set against Nadal. He should have learned from the mighty backhand of Gasquet - which has never lost a single point in a 5th (or 4th) set against Nadal in any of their slamLOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:47:02 PM UTC-4, gap...@gmail.com wrote:slice backhand..
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
moron!I stand by what I said. For me, Federer's one-handed bh was one of the best despite his problem vs Nadal. I'm not alone in that thought. Several tennis analysts think the same. Google is your friend. You can't win 20 slams and have a weak bh, youShe knows as much about 10s as Uly about racket sizes. !!!oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
Anybody who picks Gasquet for best one-handed bh is dense IMO. What the heck did he ever win except for maybe worst excuse of all time for failing a drug test.
On 6/19/23 5:34 PM, Court_1 wrote:backhand, slice backhand..
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:47:02 PM UTC-4, gap...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat
moron!I stand by what I said. For me, Federer's one-handed bh was one of the best despite his problem vs Nadal. I'm not alone in that thought. Several tennis analysts think the same. Google is your friend. You can't win 20 slams and have a weak bh, youShe knows as much about 10s as Uly about racket sizes. !!!oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
We don't even need to apply to authorities.
He had one of the best, most flexible 1h BH I've seen. It suffered by comparison to his FH--and that's usually the way with 1h BH. But why people--although I honestly believe the readers at RST *know*
this--believed it was weak, is that it was weak *relative* to his FH. In
an absolute sense, it was a great 1H BH.
Commentators noted that opponents tried to go to his BH, and the reason
for this was they *might* stay in the match a bit longer, if they did.
To indiscriminately go either side playing peak Fed without
consideration was basically suicidal to almost everyone he played.
So far as I'm concerned, there are distinct advantages to the2H BH--and
I was a 1h BH player, I liked hitting it, and I loved watching it on the tour.
But it there are lots of disadvantages to 1H BH as compared to the 2H BH that, over the course of a match, or a career, cost you more than they benefit you.
Now, would you *like* seeing a 2h BH Fed? Not me!!!
He was a great
kinetic artist--Gregory Hines or Baryshnikov of tennis, while 2h BH by *anyone* looks link a bracero working in a lettuce field with a hoe.
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:slice backhand..
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.
On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal
pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally
working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things
Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand, slice
backhand..
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO
despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was obviously something he
was working on when he was "injured" and took time off. He finally
decided to do something about Nadal pulverizing the Federer bh. It
only took him a decade.
That 2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside
Wimbledon that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam. Pretty
weak effort really for a goat level player.
On 6/20/23 3:07 AM, Whisper wrote:> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite thefact that Nadal >>>> pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally >>>> working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things >>>> Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand, slice >>>> backhand..>>>>>>>> LOL
On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:slice backhand..
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.
That 2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside Wimbledon that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam. Pretty weak effort
really for a goat level player.
On 6/20/23 3:07 AM, Whisper wrote:
On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal
pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally
working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things
Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand, slice
backhand..
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO
despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was obviously something he
was working on when he was "injured" and took time off. He finally
decided to do something about Nadal pulverizing the Federer bh. It
only took him a decade.
That 2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside
Wimbledon that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam. Pretty
weak effort really for a goat level player.
Whisp, as you see it, if Federer had a new, improved BH, what
specifically about its mechanics changed?
I ask this in good faith. Me, I'm less sure that the mechanics changed,
but rather they remained about the same, and that he may have changed
shot selection on BH side.
If any substantive thing changed, it was an increased use of slice.
What do you think?
On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:slice backhand..
On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
that countless times.
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.
That 2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside Wimbledon
that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam. Pretty weak effort
really for a goat level player.
There are no flukes. The player who wins the last point is the winner and the other player the loser no matter how it happened. No flukes, no excuses. Outside of Wimbledon? Isn't Wimbledon the most important slam? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post
The last time Federer played Nadal at Wimbledon(2019) it was an easy win for Federer. Nadal hadn't defeated Federer off clay since the 2014 AO. So from 2014-2019. That's a long time. Federer rectified his issues vs Nadal as I see it and I wouldconsider it far from a weak effort. It took him too long to do it but he finally did it. He gets points for that.
Off clay, Nadal has been Federer's bunny and Djokovic's lapdog for years.
On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:backhand, slice backhand..
On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat
that countless times.
LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you freaking serious? 🙄
oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th set! LOL
?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.
That 2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside Wimbledon >> that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam. Pretty weak effort
really for a goat level player.
There are no flukes. The player who wins the last point is the winner and the other player the loser no matter how it happened. No flukes, no excuses. Outside of Wimbledon? Isn't Wimbledon the most important slam? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post
consider it far from a weak effort. It took him too long to do it but he finally did it. He gets points for that.The last time Federer played Nadal at Wimbledon(2019) it was an easy win for Federer. Nadal hadn't defeated Federer off clay since the 2014 AO. So from 2014-2019. That's a long time. Federer rectified his issues vs Nadal as I see it and I would
Off clay, Nadal has been Federer's bunny and Djokovic's lapdog for years.Federer is a great player, but not the greatest or best. What I said
was factual - he only beat Nadal off grass in a slam *once* in his life,
and that was from *1-3 down in the 5th set*. Don't you find that
surprising if not shocking? I don't think it's a fluke because they
played so many times over many years. There has to be a reason for it,
and to me it's clear Fed is a lesser player mentally. Nothing wrong
with his physical skills.
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!
On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another player.
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >ever
So Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better
because he won a title?
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another player.
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >ever
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another player.
On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >ever
So Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better
because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another player.
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >ever
So Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better
because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he's
not an elite server?
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:28 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another player.
On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >ever
guys with huge serves are an outlier in tennis. There is no equivalent physical attribute which can simultaneously give you a world class backhand (or forehand) whilst crippling other aspects of your game.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he'sSo Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better
because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
not an elite server?
I didn’t say he wasn’t an elite server. I said that Karlovic serve is impressive mainly as a result of his ridiculous height, rather than him being the technically best server. His height is also what cripples the rest of his game. >Freakishly tall
On 22/06/2023 1:45 am, me wrote:ever dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:28 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote: >>>>>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >
tall guys with huge serves are an outlier in tennis. There is no equivalent physical attribute which can simultaneously give you a world class backhand (or forehand) whilst crippling other aspects of your game.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he's >> not an elite server?So Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better
because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
I didn’t say he wasn’t an elite server. I said that Karlovic serve is impressive mainly as a result of his ridiculous height, rather than him being the technically best server. His height is also what cripples the rest of his game. >Freakishly
It's the serve stats that matter. If Karlovic serves twice as many aces
as the next best guy and holds more serve games than anybody then he can
be considered goat server. This doesn't make him goat overall of course.
On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand
Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:rUTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different things Federer can do with his backhand
On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32
If I remember correctly Federer beat nadal after that AO 2017 twice or three times in a very convincing manner.
https://youtu.be/SmfaMEcnnSo
Back to Federer backhand, people say his backhand was bad just because he would show up in the finals where he has to play topspin lefty Nadal that kept sending balls above his high shoulder. Once Federer switched to a bigger frame it gave him an extraedge on the backhand that changed his backhand to more of a weapon that nadal couldn't even go there during the 2017 final and all the matches after that.
For those experts saying Gasquet backhand, I would say let check what his backhand achieved for him or what it got him playing Federer or playing nadal.
--
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:00:48PM UTC+1, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r > > On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am,Court_1 wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until
me <nei...@googlemail.com> Wrote in message:rCourt_1 wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:00:48 PM UTC+1, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r > > On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am,
Yes but his backhand was superior to Federer's :)
Here is his backhand after going for bigger frame and some highlights against Gasquet
https://youtu.be/IYtV32FnNtI
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html
Right, but the attribute that is enabling him to serve like that is him being 6 ft 11, which is also hurting the rest of his game. Having a technically amazing serve and normal height, like Sampras, means you can have a great serve and be an effectiveplayer overall. Can you really not see why a great serve due to technique is better than a great serve due to freakish height?
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point.
On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point."The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
read RST.
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point."The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys read RST.
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikko
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point."The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
read RST.
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikko
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:04:16 PM UTC-4, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote: >>> On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:
I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point."The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
read RST.
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikko
Good post, volleying is easy, for me, having played badminton, ground strokes are the hardest, hence Djoker is the best I ever saw!
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:50:56 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:ever dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another
On 22/06/2023 1:45 am, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:28 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote:
The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >
tall guys with huge serves are an outlier in tennis. There is no equivalent physical attribute which can simultaneously give you a world class backhand (or forehand) whilst crippling other aspects of your game.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he's >>>> not an elite server?So Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better
because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
I didn’t say he wasn’t an elite server. I said that Karlovic serve is impressive mainly as a result of his ridiculous height, rather than him being the technically best server. His height is also what cripples the rest of his game. >Freakishly
effective player overall. Can you really not see why a great serve due to technique is better than a great serve due to freakish height?It's the serve stats that matter. If Karlovic serves twice as many aces
as the next best guy and holds more serve games than anybody then he can
be considered goat server. This doesn't make him goat overall of course.
Right, but the attribute that is enabling him to serve like that is him being 6 ft 11, which is also hurting the rest of his game. Having a technically amazing serve and normal height, like Sampras, means you can have a great serve and >be an
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 6:57:24 PM UTC+3, me wrote:player overall. Can you really not see why a great serve due to technique is better than a great serve due to freakish height?
Right, but the attribute that is enabling him to serve like that is him being 6 ft 11, which is also hurting the rest of his game. Having a technically amazing serve and normal height, like Sampras, means you can have a great serve and be an effective
Height is "seen attribute". What we miss in telly is the key.Équipe wrote: 'Genius'. Me, I said: 'I'm 130th. in the world, I'm no genius.'
Gilles Simon had a great insight of this issue:
"What is "talent"? Gilles Simon talks about its nature in l'Équipe via Frédéric Bernès.
"Talent, no one knows what it is. They talked about it with me enormously until I was twenty-one, then when I got stronger I went over to the other side. When I qualified for the Australian Open and I'd beaten Berdych(2006), I was a genius. That's what
In France, the word talent is associated with three things: having good hands - and as I have zero hands, I have no talent - technique - the impression of fluidity - and attacking. Basically, "flamboyance" is confused with talent. I often hear thatFeliciano Lopez has talent and I piss on that. Ah Lopez the attacker ... No, Lopez is a defender. Everyone knows he's a baseliner who serves more than he volleys. He has the image of a gifted serve-and-volleyer. But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very
"Me, I have zero hands but I have enormous talent. There are simply different talents, some more obvious than others. What's talent? When Richard (Gasquet) sends a backhand ten miles from the corner of the stands, they say talent. They're right. Butwhen Rafa (Nadal) does the same with a forehand, they say it's strength, it's physical. Everyone agrees on Federer's talent, but Djokovic, pffft, they have trouble ... He has no great shot. Except you serve at him 275 kph and he takes it every time in
"Television distorts perceptions. People don't see what's so special about Kei Nishikori. He has the best two-handed backhand I've ever seen. He finds incredible angles but that doesn't make an impression. I often use the example of Mika (Llodra). Hehas an amazing volley and touch but he can't hit a correct forehand. Is he gifted? Safin had a patent on talent all his career, but when it came to hands, he was like me ... Ernests Gulbis, the same. He's talented, full stop. If he loses, it's because he
"In France, in the beginning, I had the impression that it was better to be less good, but with talent, that a Gulbis who's number 50 is more esteemed than a Ferrer who's 3. Now, I couldn't care less whether people see if I have talent or not ... Iusually answer that my talent is my timing. It's weighing 70 kg. and hitting 50 winners against Rafa in Rome (last year). I hope he doesn't take this the wrong way, but when I see that they think that I have less talent than Jo (Tsonga), it's impressive.
mikko
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point."The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
read RST.
I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikko
On 22/06/2023 4:04 am, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the easiest way to win a point."The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
read RST.
I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikkoThe s/v guy does not expect to win every point, it's a cumulative
strategy with end goal of winning the match in the end. The best net
guys didn't care if they got passed, they knew it was a numbers game and over the long haul the advantage was on their side. The baseline guy
being asked to hit laser passing shots for the whole match is the one
under pressure, tough to keep that up and eventually results in lots of errors and easier volleys for his opponent if he takes a bit off to play
it safe. It's a lost art in modern tennis. Remember McEnroe coming
into net 150+ times over 5 sets v Connors at USO, just kept coming in no matter how often he got passed.
On 22/06/2023 1:57 am, me wrote:ever dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:50:56 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 22/06/2023 1:45 am, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:28 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote: >>>>>> On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote: >>>>>>>>> The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!
Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >
tall guys with huge serves are an outlier in tennis. There is no equivalent physical attribute which can simultaneously give you a world class backhand (or forehand) whilst crippling other aspects of your game.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he'sSo Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better >>>>>> because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
not an elite server?
I didn’t say he wasn’t an elite server. I said that Karlovic serve is impressive mainly as a result of his ridiculous height, rather than him being the technically best server. His height is also what cripples the rest of his game. >Freakishly
effective player overall. Can you really not see why a great serve due to technique is better than a great serve due to freakish height?It's the serve stats that matter. If Karlovic serves twice as many aces >> as the next best guy and holds more serve games than anybody then he can >> be considered goat server. This doesn't make him goat overall of course.
Right, but the attribute that is enabling him to serve like that is him being 6 ft 11, which is also hurting the rest of his game. Having a technically amazing serve and normal height, like Sampras, means you can have a great serve and >be an
So if Karlovic was 6ft tall and still played exactly the same with the
same results, he could qualify as goat server, but being 7ft means he's
not in the conversation? This is some next level tennis analysis.
On 22/06/2023 2:00 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r>> On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:>>> On Monday,June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started finally
On 22/06/2023 4:04 am, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote: >>> On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy"The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the
easiest way to win a point.
read RST.
I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being
in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikko
The s/v guy does not expect to win every point, it's a cumulative
strategy with end goal of winning the match in the end. The best net
guys didn't care if they got passed, they knew it was a numbers game
and over the long haul the advantage was on their side. The baseline
guy being asked to hit laser passing shots for the whole match is the
one under pressure, tough to keep that up and eventually results in
lots of errors and easier volleys for his opponent if he takes a bit
off to play it safe.
It's a lost art in modern tennis. Remember McEnroe coming into net
150+ times over 5 sets v Connors at USO, just kept coming in no matter
how often he got passed.
On 22/06/2023 2:32 am, gap...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:20:50 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
me <nei...@googlemail.com> Wrote in message:r
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:00:48 PM UTC+1, PeteWasLuckyYes but his backhand was superior to Federer's :)
wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r > > On
21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at
6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1
wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg
wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1
wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that
Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started
finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different
things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand,
slice backhand..>>>>>>>>>> LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you
freaking serious? >>>>>>> oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH
that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th
set! LOL>>>>>> ?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was
obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and
took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal
pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.> >> That
2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer>>
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside
Wimbledon>> that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam.
Pretty weak effort>> really for a goat level player.> > There are
no flukes. The player who wins the last point is the winner and the
other player the loser no matter how it happened. No flukes, no
excuses. Outside of Wimbledon? Isn't Wimbledon the most important
slam? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post that countless times.> >
The last time Federer played Nadal at Wimbledon(2019) it was an
easy win for Federer. Nadal hadn't defeated Federer off clay since
the 2014 AO. So from 2014-2019. That's a long time. Federer
rectified his issues vs Nadal as I see it and I would consider it
far from a weak effort. It took him too long to do it but he
finally did it. He gets points for that.> > Off clay, Nadal has
been Federer's bunny and Djokovic's lapdog for years.Federer is a
great player, but not the greatest or best. What I said was factual
- he only beat Nadal off grass in a slam *once* in his life, and
that was from *1-3 down in the 5th set*. Don't you find that
surprising if not shocking? I don't think it's a fluke because they
played so many times over many years. There has to be a reason for
it, and to me it's clear Fed is a lesser player mentally. Nothing
wrong with his physical skills. > > If I remember correctly Federer
beat nadal after that AO 2017 twice or three times in a very
convincing manner. > > https://youtu.be/SmfaMEcnnSo > > > > Back to
Federer backhand, people say his backhand was bad just because he
would show up in the finals where he has to play topspin lefty
Nadal that kept sending balls above his high shoulder. Once Federer
switched to a bigger frame it gave him an extra edge on the
backhand that changed his backhand to more of a weapon that nadal
couldn't even go there during the 2017 final and all the matches
after that. > > For those experts saying Gasquet backhand, I would
say let check what his backhand achieved for him or what it got him
playing Federer or playing nadal.> -- Is Gasquet / Nadal the worst
ever head-to-head in pro tennis?
Here is his backhand after going for bigger frame and some
highlights against Gasquet
https://youtu.be/IYtV32FnNtI
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Too bad, did not switch to a bigger racket head earlier, like 2008,
would have had 24 slams easy!
No, because 90% of tennis is in the mind. Fed is nowhere near
Nadal/Djoker mentally.
On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 12:50:16 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:ever dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >another
On 22/06/2023 1:57 am, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:50:56 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 22/06/2023 1:45 am, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:28 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote: >>>>>>>> On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!
Context was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best >
tall guys with huge serves are an outlier in tennis. There is no equivalent physical attribute which can simultaneously give you a world class backhand (or forehand) whilst crippling other aspects of your game.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he's >>>>>> not an elite server?So Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better >>>>>>>> because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
I didn’t say he wasn’t an elite server. I said that Karlovic serve is impressive mainly as a result of his ridiculous height, rather than him being the technically best server. His height is also what cripples the rest of his game. >Freakishly
effective player overall. Can you really not see why a great serve due to technique is better than a great serve due to freakish height?It's the serve stats that matter. If Karlovic serves twice as many aces >>>> as the next best guy and holds more serve games than anybody then he can >>>> be considered goat server. This doesn't make him goat overall of course. >>>Right, but the attribute that is enabling him to serve like that is him being 6 ft 11, which is also hurting the rest of his game. Having a technically amazing serve and normal height, like Sampras, means you can have a great serve and >be an
So if Karlovic was 6ft tall and still played exactly the same with the
same results, he could qualify as goat server, but being 7ft means he's
not in the conversation? This is some next level tennis analysis.
You truly are a moron. If Karlovic was 6ft he wouldn’t be able to serve that well. His height is huge advantage on serve. Not a difficult concept to grasp…
On 22/06/2023 10:59 pm, me wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 12:50:16 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 22/06/2023 1:57 am, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:50:56 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
On 22/06/2023 1:45 am, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:28 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote: >>>>>> On 21/06/2023 10:26 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:21:27 PM UTC+1, Whisper wrote: >>>>>>>> On 21/06/2023 10:18 pm, me wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:55:48 PM UTC+1, MBDunc wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:08:04 PM UTC+3, me wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> The context of this discussion was in Federer vs Gasquet. Whatever Federer’s struggles with Nadal, he has certainly performed better than the overrated Gasquet. That statement is also true if replace Federer’s name with any other player!
player.ever dribbler wouldn’t be a complete non entity as a top footballer. There is no way the player with the best ever backhand - never wins a title bigger than a 250, never gets in top 5, never makes a slam final and has a 0-18 record against >anotherContext was selected feat/skill. Soccer example. By stats Le Tissier is the best penalty taker in the world ever with (official matches) 97,9% conversion rate.
Was he the best player ever? Never even a close. Barely played handful of lesser matches in England national team with no goals.
.mikko
That’s not a good analogy. Players can play many matches without taking a single penalty, whereas you can’t play a match without hitting a single backhand. A better football analogy would be something like the best dribbler - and the best
Freakishly tall guys with huge serves are an outlier in tennis. There is no equivalent physical attribute which can simultaneously give you a world class backhand (or forehand) whilst crippling other aspects of your game.So Karlovic's serving stats can't be that impressive I guess, given he'sSo Karlovic is not an all time great server, Glickstein is better >>>>>>>> because he won a title?
Karlovic is not the best ever server. He is just freakishly tall. Sampras is head and shoulders above him in serve technique. You ask me to pick best serve ever and I’d pick Sampras - winner if 14 slams.
not an elite server?
I didn’t say he wasn’t an elite server. I said that Karlovic serve is impressive mainly as a result of his ridiculous height, rather than him being the technically best server. His height is also what cripples the rest of his game. >
effective player overall. Can you really not see why a great serve due to technique is better than a great serve due to freakish height?It's the serve stats that matter. If Karlovic serves twice as many aces >>>> as the next best guy and holds more serve games than anybody then he can
be considered goat server. This doesn't make him goat overall of course.
Right, but the attribute that is enabling him to serve like that is him being 6 ft 11, which is also hurting the rest of his game. Having a technically amazing serve and normal height, like Sampras, means you can have a great serve and >be an
So if Karlovic was 6ft tall and still played exactly the same with the
same results, he could qualify as goat server, but being 7ft means he's >> not in the conversation? This is some next level tennis analysis.
You truly are a moron. If Karlovic was 6ft he wouldn’t be able to serve that well. His height is huge advantage on serve. Not a difficult concept to grasp…So why don't all 7ft guys play tennis? Easy way to make lots of money
and get some fame/chicks no? He's made $15 mil AUD. You're the one
saying the only attribute for Karlovic's tier 1 serve stats is his
height, and thus they don't count as tier 1 stats because it's kinda cheating, or unfair? I'm taking this slowly to see how long it takes
you to realize you're a fuckwit. Might take a while by the looks of it.
On 6/22/23 4:54 AM, Whisper wrote:
On 22/06/2023 2:32 am, gap...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:20:50 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote: >>> me <nei...@googlemail.com> Wrote in message:r
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:00:48 PM UTC+1, PeteWasLuckyYes but his backhand was superior to Federer's :)
wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r > > On
21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at
6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1
wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg >>>> wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1
wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that
Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started
finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different
things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand, >>>> slice backhand..>>>>>>>>>> LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you
freaking serious? >>>>>>> oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH
that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th
set! LOL>>>>>> ?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was
obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and
took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal
pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.> >> That
2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer>>
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside
Wimbledon>> that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam.
Pretty weak effort>> really for a goat level player.> > There are
no flukes. The player who wins the last point is the winner and the >>>> other player the loser no matter how it happened. No flukes, no
excuses. Outside of Wimbledon? Isn't Wimbledon the most important
slam? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post that countless times.> >
The last time Federer played Nadal at Wimbledon(2019) it was an
easy win for Federer. Nadal hadn't defeated Federer off clay since
the 2014 AO. So from 2014-2019. That's a long time. Federer
rectified his issues vs Nadal as I see it and I would consider it
far from a weak effort. It took him too long to do it but he
finally did it. He gets points for that.> > Off clay, Nadal has
been Federer's bunny and Djokovic's lapdog for years.Federer is a
great player, but not the greatest or best. What I said was factual >>>> - he only beat Nadal off grass in a slam *once* in his life, and
that was from *1-3 down in the 5th set*. Don't you find that
surprising if not shocking? I don't think it's a fluke because they >>>> played so many times over many years. There has to be a reason for
it, and to me it's clear Fed is a lesser player mentally. Nothing
wrong with his physical skills. > > If I remember correctly Federer >>>> beat nadal after that AO 2017 twice or three times in a very
convincing manner. > > https://youtu.be/SmfaMEcnnSo > > > > Back to >>>> Federer backhand, people say his backhand was bad just because he
would show up in the finals where he has to play topspin lefty
Nadal that kept sending balls above his high shoulder. Once Federer >>>> switched to a bigger frame it gave him an extra edge on the
backhand that changed his backhand to more of a weapon that nadal
couldn't even go there during the 2017 final and all the matches
after that. > > For those experts saying Gasquet backhand, I would
say let check what his backhand achieved for him or what it got him >>>> playing Federer or playing nadal.> -- Is Gasquet / Nadal the worst
ever head-to-head in pro tennis?
Here is his backhand after going for bigger frame and some
highlights against Gasquet
https://youtu.be/IYtV32FnNtI
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Too bad, did not switch to a bigger racket head earlier, like 2008,
would have had 24 slams easy!
No, because 90% of tennis is in the mind. Fed is nowhere near Nadal/Djoker mentally.Yes.
In the specific instance of the switch to the larger frame, I'm
entertaining the idea that more than simply the physical characteristics
of the racquet, they switch affected Federer *mentally*; he came to believe--as an article of faith, mind you--that the new racquet endowed
him with special abilities that he didn't have with the with the old
frame. This then encouraged him to be more assertive with the BH, thus curing his major tactical weakness.
I think that neither Nadal nor Djokovich need these gimmicks that much, although watching Nadal fiddle with the alignment of his water bottles
says something about his oddities.
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I done created myself a monster."
--Boxing trainer Pappy Gault, on George Foreman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 6/22/23 4:54 AM, Whisper wrote:
On 22/06/2023 2:32 am, gap...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:20:50 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote: >>> me <nei...@googlemail.com> Wrote in message:r
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:00:48 PM UTC+1, PeteWasLuckyYes but his backhand was superior to Federer's :)
wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r > > On
21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at
6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1
wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg >>>> wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1
wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that
Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started
finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different
things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand, >>>> slice backhand..>>>>>>>>>> LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you
freaking serious? >>>>>>> oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH
that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th
set! LOL>>>>>> ?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was
obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and
took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal
pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.> >> That
2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer>>
3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside
Wimbledon>> that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam.
Pretty weak effort>> really for a goat level player.> > There are
no flukes. The player who wins the last point is the winner and the >>>> other player the loser no matter how it happened. No flukes, no
excuses. Outside of Wimbledon? Isn't Wimbledon the most important
slam? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post that countless times.> >
The last time Federer played Nadal at Wimbledon(2019) it was an
easy win for Federer. Nadal hadn't defeated Federer off clay since
the 2014 AO. So from 2014-2019. That's a long time. Federer
rectified his issues vs Nadal as I see it and I would consider it
far from a weak effort. It took him too long to do it but he
finally did it. He gets points for that.> > Off clay, Nadal has
been Federer's bunny and Djokovic's lapdog for years.Federer is a
great player, but not the greatest or best. What I said was factual >>>> - he only beat Nadal off grass in a slam *once* in his life, and
that was from *1-3 down in the 5th set*. Don't you find that
surprising if not shocking? I don't think it's a fluke because they >>>> played so many times over many years. There has to be a reason for
it, and to me it's clear Fed is a lesser player mentally. Nothing
wrong with his physical skills. > > If I remember correctly Federer >>>> beat nadal after that AO 2017 twice or three times in a very
convincing manner. > > https://youtu.be/SmfaMEcnnSo > > > > Back to >>>> Federer backhand, people say his backhand was bad just because he
would show up in the finals where he has to play topspin lefty
Nadal that kept sending balls above his high shoulder. Once Federer >>>> switched to a bigger frame it gave him an extra edge on the
backhand that changed his backhand to more of a weapon that nadal
couldn't even go there during the 2017 final and all the matches
after that. > > For those experts saying Gasquet backhand, I would
say let check what his backhand achieved for him or what it got him >>>> playing Federer or playing nadal.> -- Is Gasquet / Nadal the worst
ever head-to-head in pro tennis?
Here is his backhand after going for bigger frame and some
highlights against Gasquet
https://youtu.be/IYtV32FnNtI
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Too bad, did not switch to a bigger racket head earlier, like 2008,
would have had 24 slams easy!
No, because 90% of tennis is in the mind. Fed is nowhere near Nadal/Djoker mentally.Yes.
In the specific instance of the switch to the larger frame, I'm
entertaining the idea that more than simply the physical characteristics
of the racquet, they switch affected Federer *mentally*; he came to believe--as an article of faith, mind you--that the new racquet endowed
him with special abilities that he didn't have with the with the old
frame. This then encouraged him to be more assertive with the BH, thus curing his major tactical weakness.
I think that neither Nadal nor Djokovich need these gimmicks that much, although watching Nadal fiddle with the alignment of his water bottles
says something about his oddities.
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I done created myself a monster."
--Boxing trainer Pappy Gault, on George Foreman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:rMonday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started
On 22/06/2023 2:00 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r>> On 21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 wrote:>>> On
Nadal was beaten in high level SF Wimbledon too.
BTW, Nadal didn't leave anything to Federer in slams or non-slams before that.
Since the switch to the bigger frame, he is 7-1 with the only loss in FO.
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On 22/06/2023 4:04 am, MBDunc wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:56:25 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote: >>> On 21.6.2023 20.45, MBDunc wrote:
But I find the serve-and-volleyer is very often un-gifted. They guy"The easiest shot in tennis". It's always gratifying to see these guys
hits a hard serve and moves up to volley because, for him, it's the
easiest way to win a point.
read RST.
I do not agree with Simon, but technically he has more insight being
in top10 and on tour for 15 years+ than any here?
(for me volley part is easily the hardest part in my tennis)
.mikko
The s/v guy does not expect to win every point, it's a cumulative
strategy with end goal of winning the match in the end.
The best net
guys didn't care if they got passed, they knew it was a numbers game and
over the long haul the advantage was on their side.
On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 10:16:12 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:
On 6/22/23 4:54 AM, Whisper wrote:Bigger frame makes big difference in playing topspin backwards.
On 22/06/2023 2:32 am, gap...@gmail.com wrote:Yes.
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 12:20:50 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote: >>>>> me <nei...@googlemail.com> Wrote in message:r
Too bad, did not switch to a bigger racket head earlier, like 2008,On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:00:48 PM UTC+1, PeteWasLuckyYes but his backhand was superior to Federer's :)
wrote:> Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r > > On
21/06/2023 7:56 am, Court_1 wrote:> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at
6:07:24 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:>> On 20/06/2023 10:30 am, Court_1 >>>>>> wrote:>>> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-4, The Iceberg >>>>>> wrote:>>>> On Sunday, 18 June 2023 at 01:57:32 UTC+1, Court_1
wrote:>>>>> For me, it's still Federer(yes, despite the fact that
Nadal pulverized that backhand for a decade until Federer started
finally working him out.) I'm talking about all the different
things Federer can do with his backhand overall like flat backhand, >>>>>> slice backhand..>>>>>>>>>> LOL at people picking Gasquet? Are you
freaking serious? >>>>>>> oh yes you say it was Fed's improved BH
that won him the 2017 AO despite him being down a break in the 5th >>>>>> set! LOL>>>>>> ?? His bh was fantastic in that match! It was
obviously something he was working on when he was "injured" and
took time off. He finally decided to do something about Nadal
pulverizing the Federer bh. It only took him a decade.> >> That
2017 AO final was a bit of a fluke loss for Rafa, he led Federer>> >>>>>> 3-1 in 5th set despite his 'super improved backhand'. Outside
Wimbledon>> that's the only time Fed ever beat Rafa in a slam.
Pretty weak effort>> really for a goat level player.> > There are
no flukes. The player who wins the last point is the winner and the >>>>>> other player the loser no matter how it happened. No flukes, no
excuses. Outside of Wimbledon? Isn't Wimbledon the most important
slam? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post that countless times.> >
The last time Federer played Nadal at Wimbledon(2019) it was an
easy win for Federer. Nadal hadn't defeated Federer off clay since >>>>>> the 2014 AO. So from 2014-2019. That's a long time. Federer
rectified his issues vs Nadal as I see it and I would consider it
far from a weak effort. It took him too long to do it but he
finally did it. He gets points for that.> > Off clay, Nadal has
been Federer's bunny and Djokovic's lapdog for years.Federer is a
great player, but not the greatest or best. What I said was factual >>>>>> - he only beat Nadal off grass in a slam *once* in his life, and
that was from *1-3 down in the 5th set*. Don't you find that
surprising if not shocking? I don't think it's a fluke because they >>>>>> played so many times over many years. There has to be a reason for >>>>>> it, and to me it's clear Fed is a lesser player mentally. Nothing
wrong with his physical skills. > > If I remember correctly Federer >>>>>> beat nadal after that AO 2017 twice or three times in a very
convincing manner. > > https://youtu.be/SmfaMEcnnSo > > > > Back to >>>>>> Federer backhand, people say his backhand was bad just because he
would show up in the finals where he has to play topspin lefty
Nadal that kept sending balls above his high shoulder. Once Federer >>>>>> switched to a bigger frame it gave him an extra edge on the
backhand that changed his backhand to more of a weapon that nadal
couldn't even go there during the 2017 final and all the matches
after that. > > For those experts saying Gasquet backhand, I would >>>>>> say let check what his backhand achieved for him or what it got him >>>>>> playing Federer or playing nadal.> -- Is Gasquet / Nadal the worst >>>>>> ever head-to-head in pro tennis?
Here is his backhand after going for bigger frame and some
highlights against Gasquet
https://youtu.be/IYtV32FnNtI
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would have had 24 slams easy!
No, because 90% of tennis is in the mind. Fed is nowhere near
Nadal/Djoker mentally.
In the specific instance of the switch to the larger frame, I'm
entertaining the idea that more than simply the physical characteristics
of the racquet, they switch affected Federer *mentally*; he came to
believe--as an article of faith, mind you--that the new racquet endowed
him with special abilities that he didn't have with the with the old
frame. This then encouraged him to be more assertive with the BH, thus
curing his major tactical weakness.
I think that neither Nadal nor Djokovich need these gimmicks that much,
although watching Nadal fiddle with the alignment of his water bottles
says something about his oddities.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> "I done created myself a monster."
--Boxing trainer Pappy Gault, on George Foreman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I played with the same frames like Sampras and Federer.
When I switched from the 90 to 97, it was an immediate game changer for the backhand but the forehand suffered.
It took time to adjust the forehand swings, this happened to Federer too.
Btw, Gasquet plays with frame size 100.
Here is an interesting article
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/867140/Roger-Federer-Pete-Sampras-Greg-Rusedski/amp
Rosewall, Mac, Stan, Lendl, Edberg, Gasquet, Paneta?
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