• Very entertaining match :)

    From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 9 11:52:20 2023
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


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  • From Shakes@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Fri Jun 9 12:37:10 2023
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


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    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

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  • From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to Shakes on Fri Jun 9 18:05:56 2023
    Shakes <kvcshake@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Amazing youngsters, but it was expected. > > > -- > > > > > ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- > https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.htmlI didn't expect it, honestly.
    I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I am thinking now, that atp may have put these youngsters in disadvantage when they removed the 5 sets finals in masters.
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to Shakes on Sat Jun 10 09:40:37 2023
    On 10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.


    Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob thought it
    couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for Novak of course
    but a huge break imo.

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  • From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to Whisper on Fri Jun 9 20:33:55 2023
    Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r
    On 10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote:> On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:>> Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.>>>>> I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy
    too quickly.Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob thought it couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for Novak of course but a huge break imo.

    So it seems based on his press that it was the extreme tension that got him to cramp.
    He said it wasn't just his leg, it was his entire body.
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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Shakes on Fri Jun 9 20:11:47 2023
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


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    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I'm surprised you of all people are saying that! Djokovic's tactics made Alcaraz expend too much energy. Listen to Gill Gross's match analysis on YouTube.

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Whisper on Fri Jun 9 20:07:55 2023
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 7:40:51 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
    On 10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.
    Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob thought it
    couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for Novak of course
    but a huge break imo.

    I haven't watched much tennis for a while but I did watch most of the Djokovic-Alcaraz match today. I have no idea why people thought Alcaraz was the favorite for this match? Previously, they played one time, not at a slam. Everybody should know by now
    that Djokovic doesn't give two craps about best of three any longer and all of his energy goes into best of five matches. The stand-alone slam record is at stake which is the only pertinent record left for Djokovic. Why would he monkey around?

    Alcaraz is only 20. Remember Djokovic and Federer at age 20? They were not even close to what they eventually became. Alcaraz has plenty of time to get it all together. Players are hitting peak/prime much later and 35 of today is nothing like 35 of a
    decade or more ago. Things progress. I can't fathom why so many fanatics don't understand this concept.

    Djokovic is a ridiculous player. Better than Nadal and Federer. I've accepted it. Everybody else should too instead of making up all of these silly excuses such as Federer couldn't beat Djokovic because of the six year age difference. Give me a break
    with that nonsense.

    All you have to do is look at a chart of the stats of Djokovic, Federer and Nadal. The conclusion is glaringly obvious and I'm saying this as somebody who will always prefer the aesthetically pleasing game that Federer had and as somebody who disliked
    Djokovic's on-court BS. But, after a while, it reaches a point where it's absurd to keep coming up with inane excuses as to why Federer was greater. Again, look at their stats side by side!

    Djokovic is number 1 and Federer and Nadal lunatic fans can duke it out and argue about who is number 2 and 3. For me, Federer is greater than Nadal.

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  • From Shakes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 9 22:44:39 2023
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:11:49 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I'm surprised you of all people are saying that! Djokovic's tactics made Alcaraz expend too much energy. Listen to Gill Gross's match analysis on YouTube.

    I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised. Alcaraz is still young and overly enthusiastic. But I thought he had enough experience behind him by now to know how to conserve energy in a best-of-5 slam SF. He ran around like crazy on some points in the
    1st 2 sets, where I felt it was unnecessary. He needs to ration his energy better. OTOH, it's also possible that he is the type of player who cramps easily (Rafter is another player who was similar in that regard).

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  • From undecided@21:1/5 to Shakes on Sat Jun 10 07:06:11 2023
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 1:44:41 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:11:49 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I'm surprised you of all people are saying that! Djokovic's tactics made Alcaraz expend too much energy. Listen to Gill Gross's match analysis on YouTube.
    I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised. Alcaraz is still young and overly enthusiastic. But I thought he had enough experience behind him by now to know how to conserve energy in a best-of-5 slam SF. He ran around like crazy on some points in the
    1st 2 sets, where I felt it was unnecessary. He needs to ration his energy better. OTOH, it's also possible that he is the type of player who cramps easily (Rafter is another player who was similar in that regard).
    That's how I play (because I am old). I won't chase down balls that will give me a very small chance of possibly winning the point. I will only chase balls down that will at least allow me to get back in the point on level footing (50/50 chance). I am
    not saying Alcaraz should do exactly that but he should adjust the get every ball attitude.

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  • From Sawfish@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 10 08:45:44 2023
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  • From PeteWasLucky@21:1/5 to olympia0000@yahoo.com on Sat Jun 10 11:25:07 2023
    Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 7:40:51PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:> On 10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote: > > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote: > >> Amazing youngsters, but it was expected. > >> > >>> > I didn't expect it,
    honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.> Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob thought it > couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for Novak of course > but a huge break
    imo.I haven't watched much tennis for a while but I did watch most of the Djokovic-Alcaraz match today. I have no idea why people thought Alcaraz was the favorite for this match? Previously, they played one time, not at a slam. Everybody should know by
    now that Djokovic doesn't give two craps about best of three any longer and all of his energy goes into best of five matches. The stand-alone slam record is at stake which is the only pertinent record left for Djokovic. Why would he monkey around?
    Alcaraz is only 20. Remember Djokovic and Federer at age 20? They were not even close to what they eventually became. Alcaraz has plenty of time to get it all together. Players are hitting peak/prime much later and 35 of today is nothing like 35 of a
    decade or more ago. Things progress. I can't fathom why so many fanatics don't understand this concept.Djokovic is a ridiculous player. Better than Nadal and Federer. I've accepted it. Everybody else should too instead of making up all of these silly
    excuses such as Federer couldn't beat Djokovic because of the six year age difference. Give me a break with that nonsense. All you have to do is look at a chart of the stats of Djokovic, Federer and Nadal. The conclusion is glaringly obvious and I'm
    saying this as somebody who will always prefer the aesthetically pleasing game that Federer had and as somebody who disliked Djokovic's on-court BS. But, after a while, it reaches a point where it's absurd to keep coming up with inane excuses as to why
    Federer was greater. Again, look at their stats side by side!Djokovic is number 1 and Federer and Nadal lunatic fans can duke it out and argue about who is number 2 and 3. For me, Federer is greater than Nadal.

    Mr wisdom shows up after the match to give us again the wise news :)

    Alcaraz was the favorite to win with good margins. He was better technically and physically but people didn't expect that he is going to be nervous to the extent that his entire body cramped.

    He was off from the beginning of the first set making weird errors, now knowing he was nervous explains it.

    Carlos Alcaraz said the cramps that afflicted him in his French Open semi-final loss to Novak Djokovic were a result of tension and nerves during the match, which he described as something he had never experienced before in his life. 'It's been really
    tough for me, honestly. I disappointed myself,' said the Spaniard.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2023/jun/10/carlos-alcaraz-french-open-semi-final-cramps-were-caused-by-nerves-video#



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  • From gapp111@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Whisper on Sat Jun 10 08:54:14 2023
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 7:40:51 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
    On 10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.
    Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob thought it
    couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for Novak of course
    but a huge break imo.

    Djoker should have won the second set?

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Shakes on Sat Jun 10 17:11:33 2023
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 1:44:41 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:11:49 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I'm surprised you of all people are saying that! Djokovic's tactics made Alcaraz expend too much energy. Listen to Gill Gross's match analysis on YouTube.
    I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised. Alcaraz is still young and overly enthusiastic. But I thought he had enough experience behind him by now to know how to conserve energy in a best-of-5 slam SF. He ran around like crazy on some points in the
    1st 2 sets, where I felt it was unnecessary. He needs to ration his energy better. OTOH, it's also possible that he is the type of player who cramps easily (Rafter is another player who was similar in that regard).

    It's one thing to play Tsitsipas(don't get me started on him and his lack of progress) and Musetti in a grand slam and beat them but it's quite another thing to play Gumby, the freak Pipe Cleaner in a final! That was a few steps too far for Alcaraz and
    this juncture. He'll get there.

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to Sawfish on Sat Jun 10 17:27:06 2023
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 11:47:11 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:

    Maybe we can call upon Whisper to tell us if this was a choke.

    :^)



    Why? Does Whisper say a lot of players choke? I haven't been around for a long time. I don't know what's been going on around here.

    It sure wasn't the best performance by Alcaraz. But it was a tough mountain to climb to try and beat a motivated Djokovic with no Nadal around at RG at this stage.

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  • From Court_1@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Sat Jun 10 17:23:29 2023
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 11:25:12 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:



    Mr wisdom shows up after the match to give us again the wise news :)

    Missed you too! xoxo


    Alcaraz was the favorite to win with good margins. He was better technically and physically but people didn't expect that he is going to be nervous to the extent that his entire body cramped.

    Well, I can't speak for other people and which player they thought was the favorite for the final but I sure as hell didn't think Alcaraz was the favorite! I thought Djokovic had a 70% chance of winning.

    Djokovic has 22 slams and has played in countless slam finals. He basically made Nadal(off clay) and Federer his pigeons in the past decade so I'm supposed to think that a 20 year old kid who has very little experience in slam finals is going to do what
    GOAT level players found difficult? Um, no!

    I do think Alcaraz is a great player(from the little I 've watched of him.) He'll learn and eventually he'll beat Djokovic at a slam(hopefully we all won't be dead by then though ;))

    Does it really matter though? Djokovic is going to get the lone slam record tomorrow. I fail to see how Ruud will beat him.

    He was off from the beginning of the first set making weird errors, now knowing he was nervous explains it.

    Just like I said above, he wasn't ready.

    Carlos Alcaraz said the cramps that afflicted him in his French Open semi-final loss to Novak Djokovic were a result of tension and nerves during the match, which he described as something he had never experienced before in his life. 'It's been really
    tough for me, honestly. I disappointed myself,' said the Spaniard.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2023/jun/10/carlos-alcaraz-french-open-semi-final-cramps-were-caused-by-nerves-video#


    Wasn't Alcaraz tweeting before the final that he was ready for the knockout punch? I think he should have remained quiet and let his racket do the talking first.

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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to undecided on Sun Jun 11 18:59:19 2023
    On 11/06/2023 12:06 am, undecided wrote:
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 1:44:41 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:11:49 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I'm surprised you of all people are saying that! Djokovic's tactics made Alcaraz expend too much energy. Listen to Gill Gross's match analysis on YouTube.
    I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised. Alcaraz is still young and overly enthusiastic. But I thought he had enough experience behind him by now to know how to conserve energy in a best-of-5 slam SF. He ran around like crazy on some points in
    the 1st 2 sets, where I felt it was unnecessary. He needs to ration his energy better. OTOH, it's also possible that he is the type of player who cramps easily (Rafter is another player who was similar in that regard).
    That's how I play (because I am old). I won't chase down balls that will give me a very small chance of possibly winning the point. I will only chase balls down that will at least allow me to get back in the point on level footing (50/50 >chance). I am
    not saying Alcaraz should do exactly that but he should adjust the get every ball attitude.


    He will, but he's very young and feels like superman so goes for every
    ball. He's insanely talented so will win most matches any way, just
    needs to let the low % shots go, unless they are critical points like
    set point down etc

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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to PeteWasLucky on Sun Jun 11 19:06:14 2023
    On 11/06/2023 1:25 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:


    Alcaraz was the favorite to win with good margins. He was better technically and physically but people didn't expect that he is going to be nervous to the extent that his entire body cramped.

    He was off from the beginning of the first set making weird errors, now knowing he was nervous explains it.


    Have to give Djoker most of the credit for that, huge experience
    mismatch. Even so I felt Alcaraz would win the match in tough 4 sets
    after winning 2nd, but who knows. Djoker looked gassed and slowing down
    to me, while Alcaraz looked fresh like he just got out of the shower
    ready to start the match. That's why the cramping was so bizarre.




    Carlos Alcaraz said the cramps that afflicted him in his French Open semi-final loss to Novak Djokovic were a result of tension and nerves during the match, which he described as something he had never experienced before in his life. >'It's been really
    tough for me, honestly. I disappointed myself,' said the Spaniard.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2023/jun/10/carlos-alcaraz-french-open-semi-final-cramps-were-caused-by-nerves-video#


    He's very young and it's a missed golden opportunity to win his 1st FO,
    but it'll be a blip on his radar overall.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to gap...@gmail.com on Sun Jun 11 19:14:50 2023
    On 11/06/2023 1:54 am, gap...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 7:40:51 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
    On 10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Amazing youngsters, but it was expected.


    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.
    Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob thought it
    couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for Novak of course
    but a huge break imo.

    Djoker should have won the second set?


    He was trying his hardest to win it. Djoker knew he was in big trouble
    if 1 set all. Given how gassed Djoker was and fresh Alcaraz looked I
    would have said 90% Alcaraz wins.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to Sawfish on Sun Jun 11 19:13:12 2023
    On 11/06/2023 1:45 am, Sawfish wrote:
    On 6/10/23 8:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
    Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 7:40:51PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:> On
    10/06/2023 5:37 am, Shakes wrote: > > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at
    8:52:25AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote: > >> Amazing youngsters, but it
    was expected. > >> > >>> > I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought
    Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too
    quickly.> Everyone was surprised no one moreso than Carlos, prob
    thought it > couldn't happen given his youth. Fully deserved win for
    Novak of course > but a huge break imo.I haven't watched much tennis
    for a while but I did watch most of the Djokovic-Alcaraz match today.
    I have no idea why people thought Alcaraz was the favorite for this
    match? Previously, they played one time, not at a slam. Everybody
    should know by now that Djokovic doesn't give two craps about best of
    three any longer and all of his energy goes into best of five
    matches.  The stand-alone slam record is at stake which is the only
    pertinent record left for Djokovic. Why would he monkey
    around?Alcaraz is only 20. Remember Djokovic and Federer at age 20?
    They were not even close to what they eventually became. Alcaraz has
    plenty of time to get it all together. Players are hitting peak/prime
    much later and 35 of today is nothing like 35 of a decade or more
    ago. Things progress. I can't fathom why so many fanatics don't
    understand this concept.Djokovic is a ridiculous player. Better than
    Nadal and Federer. I've accepted it. Everybody else should too
    instead of making up all of these silly excuses such as Federer
    couldn't beat Djokovic because of the six year age difference. Give
    me a break with that nonsense. All you have to do is look at a chart
    of the stats of Djokovic, Federer and Nadal. The conclusion is
    glaringly obvious and I'm saying this as somebody who will always
    prefer the aesthetically pleasing game that Federer had and as
    somebody who disliked Djokovic's on-court BS. But, after a while, it
    reaches a point where it's absurd to keep coming up with inane
    excuses as to why Federer was greater. Again, look at their stats
    side by side!Djokovic is number 1 and Federer and Nadal lunatic fans
    can duke it out and argue about who is number 2 and 3. For me,
    Federer is greater than Nadal.
    Mr wisdom shows up after the match to give us again the wise news :)

    Alcaraz was the favorite to win with good margins. He was better
    technically and physically but people didn't expect that he is going
    to be nervous to the extent that his entire body cramped.

    He was off from the beginning of the first set making weird errors,
    now knowing he was nervous explains it.

    Carlos Alcaraz said the cramps that afflicted him in his French Open
    semi-final loss to Novak Djokovic were a result of tension and nerves
    during the match, which he described as something he had never
    experienced before in his life. 'It's been really tough for me,
    honestly. I disappointed myself,' said the Spaniard.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2023/jun/10/carlos-alcaraz-french-open-semi-final-cramps-were-caused-by-nerves-video#



    Maybe we can call upon Whisper to tell us if this was a choke.

    :^)




    No way was it a choke. You could see in the 1st 2 sets he was just
    trying to click over into god mode. I was impressed with the way he
    handled himself, not caving in but waiting for the 'switch'. Tennis is
    like that no matter who you are, can't force it, have to get your mind
    right and keep hoping the reward will come. Djoker said Alcaraz will win
    many FO's and he's right.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 11 19:23:33 2023
    On 11/06/2023 10:11 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 1:44:41 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:11:49 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
    On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

    I didn't expect it, honestly. I thought Alcaraz was smarter than this. He expended too much energy too quickly.

    I'm surprised you of all people are saying that! Djokovic's tactics made Alcaraz expend too much energy. Listen to Gill Gross's match analysis on YouTube.
    I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised. Alcaraz is still young and overly enthusiastic. But I thought he had enough experience behind him by now to know how to conserve energy in a best-of-5 slam SF. He ran around like crazy on some points in
    the 1st 2 sets, where I felt it was unnecessary. He needs to ration his energy better. OTOH, it's also possible that he is the type of player who cramps easily (Rafter is another player who was similar in that regard).

    It's one thing to play Tsitsipas(don't get me started on him and his lack of progress) and Musetti in a grand slam and beat them but it's quite another thing to play Gumby, the freak Pipe Cleaner in a final! That was a few steps too far >for Alcaraz
    and this juncture. He'll get there.


    I don't think it was a step too far at all. If not for cramps I don't
    see why he would start playing worse than he was to that point. He
    looked super fresh physically and Djoker was gasping for air. I think
    the 1st 2 sets was probably as bad as Alcaraz could have played, and it
    was dead even. Anyway it doesn't matter, Djoker won and hopefully we'll
    get to see a full GS match between these 2 greats before Djoker is done.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Whisper@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 11 19:26:59 2023
    On 11/06/2023 10:27 am, Court_1 wrote:
    On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 11:47:11 AM UTC-4, Sawfish wrote:

    Maybe we can call upon Whisper to tell us if this was a choke.

    :^)



    Why? Does Whisper say a lot of players choke? I haven't been around for a long time. I don't know what's been going on around here.

    It sure wasn't the best performance by Alcaraz. But it was a tough mountain to climb to try and beat a motivated Djokovic with no Nadal around at RG at this stage.


    The opposite, people here think losing a set after being a break up is
    unusual and must be a choke. If you start playing well at the right time
    you can easily win 3, 5 games in a row without relying on opponent
    choking. Shouldn't need to be said but it is rst, lots of amateurs.

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