Well technically they aren't on athletic scholarships sure.

And it should be pointed out that playing for princeton basketball is different than say playing for Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, etc in that they won't just take anyone good enough at basketball who qualifies. Like if you are a poor student and *
barely* made the minimum gpa and sat/act scores in high school, you're not going to be able to play at Princeton or whatever. Whereas you could at those other schools if they want you from a basketball standpoint.

But that's a FAR different thing than pretending they are 'completely regular students'. These players were *heavily recruited* out of high school and the academic standards for them aren't anywhere near the average princeton student. Are they clearly
higher than what can be squeezed in at other universities where they will take the mininums? Of course.....but again that's a wide gap. Schools like princeton and harvard have to target at a miniumum 'pretty decent' students who also happen to be able
to play basketball at this level, but make no mistake they aren't limited to just purely recruiting the type of 'top 1%' high school kids academically who make up the student body as a whole.

It's a similar thing with the 'no athletic scholarship' angle. Sure, thats technically true but these schools have such incredibly large endowments that they can just work with the basketball program to make sure those students are getting full need
based grants. So it's essentially the same thing- iow they were 'targeted' to come play for princeton because they were excellent basketball players(who also happened to be at least decent students but generally not comparable to the uni as a whole)
and they were also 'targeted' in terms of making sure they had what is equivalent to a scholarship in the form of need based grants to pay for everything(which a lot of students get there btw)

And there is NOTHING AT ALL wrong with this and its great to see Princeton get to the sweet 16. The win over missouri wasn't a surprise but yeah even I'll admit the win over zona was a nice upset.....but all the media misinformation is ridiculous. They
make it seem like the princeton basketball team is made up of a bunch of regular students who didn't even know for sure they wanted to play basketball for princeton and sometime in first semester of their freshman year said "I may as well go out for
tryouts" lol.....thats not the case at all and in pretty much all cases these players were heavily recruited and also considering offers from mid majors or small major type programs.....

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They make it seem like the princeton basketball team is made up of a bunch of regular students who didn't even know for sure they wanted to play basketball for princeton and sometime in first semester of their freshman year said "I may as well go out

for tryouts"

...and you make it sound like they're at Princeton just to play basketball. I'm pretty sure that, in every case, the fact that there's an Ivy League education involved is the primary reason they're at Princeton. At least, in basketball. I would be VERY
surprised if there aren't any Yale hockey players or Cornell wrestlers who go to those schools pretty much just for the sport; the commentators at the NCAA wrestling championships even pointed this out.

Or did I miss the Disney movie about the "real-life Mighty Ducks," a random bunch of students from Yale that banded together and won the NCAA Division I championship in 2013?

As for the "need-based" scholarships, either the school needs to convince the NCAA of this, or make sure that no more than 13 get them. Otherwise, what stops a school from giving out 150 football scholarships, and claiming that half of them are "need-
based"?

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As for the "need-based" scholarships, either the school needs to convince the NCAA of this, or make sure that no more than 13 get them. Otherwise, what stops a school from giving out 150 football scholarships, and claiming that half of them are "need-

based"?

what are you even talking about here? They call them grants....but it's essentially the same thing(it pays for school and some of the other expenses). The ncaa has no involvement in the doling out of such grants, and a great number of non basketball

players at princeton(and harvard, yale, etc) also get them.

The NCAA has signicant "involvement" in making sure that an athlete that receives a grant-in-aid is counted against the scholarship limit in that sport (and yes, they do). Division III schools seem to have a habit of giving "grants" to athletes to get
around the "no athletic scholarships" rule, and the NCAA is starting to crack down on them.

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On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:36:09 PM UTC-5, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:

They make it seem like the princeton basketball team is made up of a bunch of regular students who didn't even know for sure they wanted to play basketball for princeton and sometime in first semester of their freshman year said "I may as well go out

for tryouts"

...and you make it sound like they're at Princeton just to play basketball.

not at all. In fact I specifically mentioned that these are pretty good students. For the most part not near the same as the regular student body, but still.....

I'm pretty sure that, in every case, the fact that there's an Ivy League education involved is the primary reason they're at Princeton.

sure that plays a big part in it, but you miss the point- that being that Princeton specifically selected/recruited them *for* their basketball ability and to play on the team. Most of them would not have been admitted to princeton without the special '
bonus' of being able to play div1 basketball(which is a very rare skill). And that's nothing wrong with that of course......and they are typically much better students than found at Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, etc........they just aren't 'typical
princeton students'.

At least, in basketball. I would be VERY surprised if there aren't any Yale hockey players or Cornell wrestlers who go to those schools pretty much just for the sport; the commentators at the NCAA wrestling championships even pointed this out.

Or did I miss the Disney movie about the "real-life Mighty Ducks," a random bunch of students from Yale that banded together and won the NCAA Division I championship in 2013?

As for the "need-based" scholarships, either the school needs to convince the NCAA of this, or make sure that no more than 13 get them. Otherwise, what stops a school from giving out 150 football scholarships, and claiming that half of them are "need-

based"?

what are you even talking about here? They call them grants....but it's essentially the same thing(it pays for school and some of the other expenses). The ncaa has no involvement in the doling out of such grants, and a great number of non basketball
players at princeton(and harvard, yale, etc) also get them.

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On 3/18/2023 9:35 PM, michael anderson wrote:

Well technically they aren't on athletic scholarships sure.

And it should be pointed out that playing for princeton basketball is different than say playing for Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, etc in that they won't just take anyone good enough at basketball who qualifies. Like if you are a poor student and

*barely* made the minimum gpa and sat/act scores in high school, you're not going to be able to play at Princeton or whatever. Whereas you could at those other schools if they want you from a basketball standpoint.

Let's put it this way: the Ivy league athletes are not at all like those
from the SEC or Big 12. Academically, they are top notch. Some happen to
be exceptional athletes that want an exceptional education.

--
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is." Ruben Goldberg

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On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 11:45:30 AM UTC-5, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:

As for the "need-based" scholarships, either the school needs to convince the NCAA of this, or make sure that no more than 13 get them. Otherwise, what stops a school from giving out 150 football scholarships, and claiming that half of them are "

need-based"?

what are you even talking about here? They call them grants....but it's essentially the same thing(it pays for school and some of the other expenses). The ncaa has no involvement in the doling out of such grants, and a great number of non basketball

players at princeton(and harvard, yale, etc) also get them.

The NCAA has signicant "involvement" in making sure that an athlete that receives a grant-in-aid is counted against the scholarship limit in that sport (and yes, they do).

But the ncaa can't do anything if the athlete recieving such aid would also get that need based aid as a regular student(of course they likely would have never been admitted as a regular student, but still.....) Which is the case at schools like
Princeton. Most of the students at princeton whose family incomes are less than say.....290k(and I may be a little off either way on that) are not paying tuition to attend but are recieving 100 percent need based grants. That's a big push that H/Y/P
all had some time ago. They can do it due to their endowments(and of course due to the fact that a lot of the regular students do have families making much greater than that so they do pay)

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On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 1:47:36 AM UTC-5, RoddyMcCorley wrote:

On 3/18/2023 9:35 PM, michael anderson wrote:

Well technically they aren't on athletic scholarships sure.

And it should be pointed out that playing for princeton basketball is different than say playing for Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, etc in that they won't just take anyone good enough at basketball who qualifies. Like if you are a poor student and

*barely* made the minimum gpa and sat/act scores in high school, you're not going to be able to play at Princeton or whatever. Whereas you could at those other schools if they want you from a basketball standpoint.

Let's put it this way: the Ivy league athletes are not at all like those from the SEC or Big 12.

or the big ten or pac 12(to correct any misconception that these schools have the same standards for athletes as their students too)

Academically, they are top notch.

yes they are much better than their athlete peers at say Duke, Stanford, Kansas, LSU, etc(see what I did there). But 'top notch' is
relative. I would guess the average basketball player at H/Y/P is pretty similar to the average regular student at say.....theuniversity of georgia. Which again the average student at the university of Georgia is a MUCH MUCH higher caliber than the
average basketball player at any power 5 school, so that in itself is a compliment to those basketball players at H/Y/P. But note that that is still a long way off from the average regular student at H/Y/P

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The NCAA has signicant "involvement" in making sure that an athlete that receives a grant-in-aid is counted against the scholarship limit in that sport (and yes, they do).

But the ncaa can't do anything if the athlete recieving such aid would also get that need based aid as a regular student(of course they likely would have never been admitted as a regular student, but still.....)

The NCAA doesn't want to do anything in that case, but that's another story.

Which is the case at schools like Princeton. Most of the students at princeton whose family incomes are less than say.....290k(and I may be a little off either way on that) are not paying tuition to attend but are recieving 100 percent need based grants.

That's a big push that H/Y/P all had some time ago. They can do it due to their endowments(and of course due to the fact that a lot of the regular students do have families making much greater than that so they do pay)

Point taken...but keep in mind that they still count against the scholarship limit (which answers the question, "Why doesn't, say, Alabama simply give 'need-based grants' to some of its players above and beyond its 85 athletic scholarships?"), so whether
or not they are "athletic scholarships" may be a matter of semantics. It's like how the NEC is limited to 40 "football scholarships" per year, yet when you add the athletes on "non-athletic grants," they all seem to have enough (50.4 in 2022; 56.7 in
2023) for FBS teams to count wins against them for bowl eligibility purposes.

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On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 10:03:32 AM UTC-5, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:

The NCAA has signicant "involvement" in making sure that an athlete that receives a grant-in-aid is counted against the scholarship limit in that sport (and yes, they do).

But the ncaa can't do anything if the athlete recieving such aid would also get that need based aid as a regular student(of course they likely would have never been admitted as a regular student, but still.....)

The NCAA doesn't want to do anything in that case, but that's another story. >Which is the case at schools like Princeton. Most of the students at princeton whose family incomes are less than say.....290k(and I may be a little off either way on that) are not paying tuition to attend but are recieving 100 percent need based

grants. That's a big push that H/Y/P all had some time ago. They can do it due to their endowments(and of course due to the fact that a lot of the regular students do have families making much greater than that so they do pay)

Point taken...but keep in mind that they still count against the scholarship limit (which answers the question, "Why doesn't, say, Alabama simply give 'need-based grants' to some of its players above and beyond its 85 athletic scholarships?"), so

whether or not they are "athletic scholarships" may be a matter of semantics. It's like how the NEC is limited to 40 "football scholarships" per year, yet when you add the athletes on "non-athletic grants," they all seem to have enough (50.4 in 2022; 56.
7 in 2023) for FBS teams to count wins against them for bowl eligibility purposes.


yes but none of this has anything to do with what my point was: that the media is presenting a false narrative for the most part when they stress how these are "completely regular students" and that the Ivy league schools "don't give any scholarships to
basketball players". While technically true, these players are recruited the same way they would be at a school like Iona or College of Charleston, for example. And then the players(those who aren't wealthy) are taken care of financially with tuition
covered.....

listening to media narratives, they make it seem like the princeton team is made up of a bunch of students who weren't specifically recruited as basketball players and had to face the exact same admission I would have had to. They are recruited to
play basketball, and while the standards academically for basketball players to get in are certainly higher than the national minimum requirements one has at Duke(to pick one), they could never field a basketball team at that level if they didn't give
significant favoritism to the basketball players(and to a lesser extent other sports probably)

It would be more appropriate for the media to say "hey these are kids who do care about their education and so chose Princeton over another non-power 5/big east school partly because of the education, and they were good enough students in high school to
be able to blend in to the academic environment as a whole"............instead the media pushes this "they are all top 1% perfect SAT geniuses" thing about H/Y/P basketball players, which just isn't true.

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yes but none of this has anything to do with what my point was: that the media is presenting a false narrative for the most part when they stress how these are "completely regular students" and that the Ivy league schools "don't give any scholarships

to basketball players". While technically true, these players are recruited the same way they would be at a school like Iona or College of Charleston, for example. And then the players(those who aren't wealthy) are taken care of financially with tuition
covered.....

We must listen to different media outlets - the only ones I have heard mention Ivy League schools tend to point out that they do recruit athletes, and in a significant number of cases, they're there primarily to play basketball / ice hockey / lacrosse /
fencing / whatever, with the Ivy League education as a side benefit.

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On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 1:28:32 PM UTC-5, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:

yes but none of this has anything to do with what my point was: that the media is presenting a false narrative for the most part when they stress how these are "completely regular students" and that the Ivy league schools "don't give any scholarships

to basketball players". While technically true, these players are recruited the same way they would be at a school like Iona or College of Charleston, for example. And then the players(those who aren't wealthy) are taken care of financially with tuition
covered.....

We must listen to different media outlets - the only ones I have heard mention Ivy League schools tend to point out that they do recruit athletes, and in a significant number of cases, they're there primarily to play basketball / ice hockey / lacrosse /

fencing / whatever, with the Ivy League education as a side benefit.

I need to switch to your shows because it sounds like they are better.

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We must listen to different media outlets - the only ones I have heard mention Ivy League schools tend to point out that they do recruit athletes, and in a significant number of cases, they're there primarily to play basketball / ice hockey /

lacrosse / fencing / whatever, with the Ivy League education as a side benefit.

I need to switch to your shows because it sounds like they are better.

You probably wouldn't like them. They include women's sports.

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