Divide the amount of tax you paid by your AGI (not your "taxable
income"). What percent do you get? IIRC, mine was around 18% to the IRS,
and 8% to the Franchise Tax Board in Sacramento.
The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
Divide the amount of tax you paid by your AGI (not your "taxable
income"). What percent do you get? IIRC, mine was around 18% to the IRS,
and 8% to the Franchise Tax Board in Sacramento.
He won’t do that because it would undermine his “poor me I’m a tax victim”
schtick.
xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
Divide the amount of tax you paid by your AGI (not your "taxable
income"). What percent do you get? IIRC, mine was around 18% to the IRS, >>> and 8% to the Franchise Tax Board in Sacramento.
He won’t do that because it would undermine his “poor me I’m a tax victim”
schtick.
For my two-earner household, percentages of AGI:
Federal income tax: 17.5%
State Income tax (NC): 4.6%
Payroll taxes (Soc sec & Medicare): 6.9%
Total income-based tax burden: 29%
The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
Divide the amount of tax you paid by your AGI (not your "taxable
income"). What percent do you get? IIRC, mine was around 18% to the IRS, and 8% to the Franchise Tax Board in Sacramento.
He won’t do that because it would undermine his “poor me I’m a tax victim”
schtick.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie
No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)
of about 27%.
No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
of about 27%.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % to get to the first 215k or so is going to averageNo, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
of about 27%.
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 3:34:41 PM UTC-5, michael anderson wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote: >>>> No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % to get to the first 215k or so is going to averageof about 27%.Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
"The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % to get to the first 215k or so is going to averageNo, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
of about 27%.
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
"The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.
"The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.He feels his bank account gives him importance -- under the law and in many other respects.
I just saw the Biden budget proposal. He may need it. The over/under on when any budget is actually signed is probably just after Super Tuesday."The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.He feels his bank account gives him importance -- under the law and in many other respects.
Whether or not there's a shutdown may come down to, do 218 of the 223 Republicans in the House think they can shut down the government without it increasing Trump's chances of being elected?
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 11:07:12 AM UTC-8, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
I just saw the Biden budget proposal. He may need it. The over/under on when any budget is actually signed is probably just after Super Tuesday."The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.He feels his bank account gives him importance -- under the law and in many other respects.
Whether or not there's a shutdown may come down to, do 218 of the 223 Republicans in the House think they can shut down the government without it increasing Trump's chances of being elected?
I have very real doubts we even see the 2024 Presidential election.
I do believe we are looking at a group of Republicans who want a debt default, and everything that means.
A hard stop to the entitlement programs would basically fell this country within a month or two.
Mike
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOTWas that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your
INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)
of about 27%.
post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%,
of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average %
to get to the first 215k or so is going to average
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 3:34:41 PM UTC-5, michael anderson wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:"The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % to get to the first 215k or so is going to averageNo, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
of about 27%.
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOTWas that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your
INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)
of about 27%.
post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%,Either you are stating it wrong or your math is wrong.
of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average %
to get to the first 215k or so is going to average
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
Is it 27% of your AGI (line 11 on your 1040) or 27% of your taxable income (line 15).
Because if it’s 27% of your taxable income (post-deductions) as you stated above, then you are in the lower half of the 35% tax bracket and literally none of your income is being taxed at 37%.
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.Oh I get it....when I think of it, I look at it like this:
let's say the combination of my employer and my self employment contracts caused me to 'make' 100 dollars. Without considering deductions.
What I'm saying is *after* my deductions I paid 27 dollars. So I guess the % I paid on taxable income was less, if taxable income is the part after deductions.
But then Im confused by the original question....because if he is only considering post-deduction percentages, why not ask just what my after deduction income was? Since as you point out you can calculate that from that.....
what most people care about when comparing how they 'did' in taxes is what percentage of the money they 'got paid' they then had to pay the govt.....which of course depends on how much you make, marital status, and deductions.
As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:27:30 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote: >>>>> No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOTEither you are stating it wrong or your math is wrong.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%,INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your
of about 27%.
post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number. >>>
of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average %
to get to the first 215k or so is going to average
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
Is it 27% of your AGI (line 11 on your 1040) or 27% of your taxable income >> (line 15).
Because if it’s 27% of your taxable income (post-deductions) as you stated >> above, then you are in the lower half of the 35% tax bracket and literally >> none of your income is being taxed at 37%.
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get
your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.
Oh I get it....when I think of it, I look at it like this:
let's say the combination of my employer and my self employment contracts caused me to 'make' 100 dollars. Without considering deductions.
What I'm saying is *after* my deductions I paid 27 dollars. So I guess
the % I paid on taxable income was less, if taxable income is the part after deductions.
But then Im confused by the original question....because if he is only considering post-deduction percentages, why not ask just what my after deduction income was? Since as you point out you can calculate that from that.....
what most people care about when comparing how they 'did' in taxes is
what percentage of the money they 'got paid' they then had to pay the govt.....which of course depends on how much you make, marital status,
and deductions. What I believe Im saying is I paid 27% just in federal taxes(not state, not fica) of what the sum of my employer paid me and my
self employed contract work paid me. Like if "michael
s employer" paid me 100 dollars this year I ended up paying 27 dollars of that to the federal govt. And the cap of course in fica(which is like 14-15k?).....
Hell here is the kicker....just in something called the 'additional
medicare tax' I paid like 7k or whatever....I don't mean I paid 7k total
for the medicare percentage that there is no cap on. It's crazy for
starters that the medicare part of FICA has no cap.....so I paid that on
all my income. But they hit me with what's called an 'additional
medicare tax'. And that was like 7k. Gone. poof. Isn't the fact that
the medicare tax of like 1.5% or whatever, unlike SS, not capped make
that 'additional'? That's what I thought it referred to at first.....no, this refers to an additional near 1 percent on top of the additional
uncapped bit. When I first saw that on my pay stub one year I just
thought "ok, now they are rsfcking with me......"
As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in
the 37. It would be less if married. Which brings me to another question/problem with our tax system....why are the last dollars I earned taxed the same way as some hedge fund billionaire who makes like 500 mill
a year and has a super yacht and I've got my tiny dual console lol?
Maybe I'm crazy, but if we're going to have a progressive tax
system(which I don't support in the first place), how about making it
truly progressive at the truly high levels.
It's like imagine four people: cashier at wal mart, school teacher, dentist, hedge fund billionaire.
Somehow our dumb tax system says the school teacher has to pay more than
the cashier at wal mart, and the dentist has to pay more than the school teacher(which is defensible even if I disagree with it), but then
shouldn't the hedge fund billionaire(on earnings of course, not capital gains) have to pay more than the dentist? but in our system, nope.........it's like you get to a certain (fairly modest) point and
then it's "ok it's all even after that". Which is bonkers.
IOW it's ridiculous to have a 35 and 37% federal tax bracket applied to ordinary working professionals in certain fields. Those sorts of tax
rates should be applied to like mega wealthy property developers and
stuff who make more money in 1 week than I do in 6 months.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:27:30 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:Either you are stating it wrong or your math is wrong.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, >>> of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % >>> to get to the first 215k or so is going to averageNo, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT >>>>> INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?) >>>>> of about 27%.Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your
post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number. >>>
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
Is it 27% of your AGI (line 11 on your 1040) or 27% of your taxable income
(line 15).
Because if it’s 27% of your taxable income (post-deductions) as you stated
above, then you are in the lower half of the 35% tax bracket and literally
none of your income is being taxed at 37%.
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get >> your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.
Oh I get it....when I think of it, I look at it like this:
let's say the combination of my employer and my self employment contracts caused me to 'make' 100 dollars. Without considering deductions.
What I'm saying is *after* my deductions I paid 27 dollars. So I guess
the % I paid on taxable income was less, if taxable income is the part after deductions.
But then Im confused by the original question....because if he is only considering post-deduction percentages, why not ask just what my after deduction income was? Since as you point out you can calculate that from that.....
what most people care about when comparing how they 'did' in taxes is
what percentage of the money they 'got paid' they then had to pay the govt.....which of course depends on how much you make, marital status,
and deductions. What I believe Im saying is I paid 27% just in federal taxes(not state, not fica) of what the sum of my employer paid me and my self employed contract work paid me. Like if "michael
s employer" paid me 100 dollars this year I ended up paying 27 dollars of that to the federal govt. And the cap of course in fica(which is like 14-15k?).....
Hell here is the kicker....just in something called the 'additional medicare tax' I paid like 7k or whatever....I don't mean I paid 7k total for the medicare percentage that there is no cap on. It's crazy for starters that the medicare part of FICA has no cap.....so I paid that on all my income. But they hit me with what's called an 'additional
medicare tax'. And that was like 7k. Gone. poof. Isn't the fact that
the medicare tax of like 1.5% or whatever, unlike SS, not capped make
that 'additional'? That's what I thought it referred to at first.....no, this refers to an additional near 1 percent on top of the additional uncapped bit. When I first saw that on my pay stub one year I just
thought "ok, now they are rsfcking with me......"
As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in
the 37. It would be less if married. Which brings me to another question/problem with our tax system....why are the last dollars I earned taxed the same way as some hedge fund billionaire who makes like 500 mill a year and has a super yacht and I've got my tiny dual console lol?
Maybe I'm crazy, but if we're going to have a progressive tax
system(which I don't support in the first place), how about making it truly progressive at the truly high levels.
It's like imagine four people: cashier at wal mart, school teacher, dentist, hedge fund billionaire.
Somehow our dumb tax system says the school teacher has to pay more than the cashier at wal mart, and the dentist has to pay more than the school teacher(which is defensible even if I disagree with it), but then shouldn't the hedge fund billionaire(on earnings of course, not capital gains) have to pay more than the dentist? but in our system, nope.........it's like you get to a certain (fairly modest) point and
then it's "ok it's all even after that". Which is bonkers.
IOW it's ridiculous to have a 35 and 37% federal tax bracket applied to ordinary working professionals in certain fields. Those sorts of tax
rates should be applied to like mega wealthy property developers and
stuff who make more money in 1 week than I do in 6 months.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, >> liberal personality.” — Altie
The question asked is simple. What is your effective tax rate, which is derived by dividing your total tax (1040 line 24) by your adjusted gross income (1040 line 11).
This is what the rest of us have done and it is the generally accepted definition of effective tax rate. This takes into account all deductions
and tax brackets to boil it down to “what percentage of your income did you
pay in federal income tax”.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie
O
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.Oh I get it....when I think of it, I look at it like this:
let's say the combination of my employer and my self employment contracts caused me to 'make' 100 dollars. Without considering deductions.
What I'm saying is *after* my deductions I paid 27 dollars. So I guess the % I paid on taxable income was less, if taxable income is the part after deductions.
But then Im confused by the original question....because if he is only considering post-deduction percentages, why not ask just what my after deduction income was? Since as you point out you can calculate that from that.....The original question was, what percentage of your pre-deduction income (although "deductions" for capital gain losses or IRA contributions aren't counted - just anything you would report on Schedule A) did you pay in taxes?
what most people care about when comparing how they 'did' in taxes is what percentage of the money they 'got paid' they then had to pay the govt.....which of course depends on how much you make, marital status, and deductions.My intent was not to have the number watered down by excessive deductions.
As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.So your income is $900,000? 37% starts at $539,000 - and that is post-deductions - so if that's 60% of your income, then your total post-deduction income would be $898,333.
well for starters I think when one uses the term 'income' or is asked "hey how much did you make", they don't report that with their mortgage interest deductions included lol. I think thats why the terminology has me confused.As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.So your income is $900,000? 37% starts at $539,000 - and that is post-deductions - so if that's 60% of your income, then your total post-deduction income would be $898,333.
If your employer pays you 250k and you have 25k in mortgage interest deductions, you're not going to say "oh my income is 225k" when someone asks. You're going to say 250k.
So I know what my employer paid me last year in salary and I know what I made in self employed contracts, bonuses, etc. I don't know exactly(without looking at tax forms again) what that figure is
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 1:07:42 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:27:30 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:The question asked is simple. What is your effective tax rate, which is
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote: >>>>>>> No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT >>>>>>> INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?) >>>>>>> of about 27%.Either you are stating it wrong or your math is wrong.
Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, >>>>> of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % >>>>> to get to the first 215k or so is going to average
post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number. >>>>>
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
Is it 27% of your AGI (line 11 on your 1040) or 27% of your taxable income >>>> (line 15).
Because if it’s 27% of your taxable income (post-deductions) as you stated
above, then you are in the lower half of the 35% tax bracket and literally >>>> none of your income is being taxed at 37%.
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get >>>> your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.
Oh I get it....when I think of it, I look at it like this:
let's say the combination of my employer and my self employment contracts >>> caused me to 'make' 100 dollars. Without considering deductions.
What I'm saying is *after* my deductions I paid 27 dollars. So I guess
the % I paid on taxable income was less, if taxable income is the part after deductions.
But then Im confused by the original question....because if he is only
considering post-deduction percentages, why not ask just what my after
deduction income was? Since as you point out you can calculate that from that.....
what most people care about when comparing how they 'did' in taxes is
what percentage of the money they 'got paid' they then had to pay the
govt.....which of course depends on how much you make, marital status,
and deductions. What I believe Im saying is I paid 27% just in federal
taxes(not state, not fica) of what the sum of my employer paid me and my >>> self employed contract work paid me. Like if "michael
s employer" paid me 100 dollars this year I ended up paying 27 dollars of >>> that to the federal govt. And the cap of course in fica(which is like 14-15k?).....
Hell here is the kicker....just in something called the 'additional
medicare tax' I paid like 7k or whatever....I don't mean I paid 7k total >>> for the medicare percentage that there is no cap on. It's crazy for
starters that the medicare part of FICA has no cap.....so I paid that on >>> all my income. But they hit me with what's called an 'additional
medicare tax'. And that was like 7k. Gone. poof. Isn't the fact that
the medicare tax of like 1.5% or whatever, unlike SS, not capped make
that 'additional'? That's what I thought it referred to at first.....no, >>> this refers to an additional near 1 percent on top of the additional
uncapped bit. When I first saw that on my pay stub one year I just
thought "ok, now they are rsfcking with me......"
As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I >>> don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in
the 37. It would be less if married. Which brings me to another
question/problem with our tax system....why are the last dollars I earned >>> taxed the same way as some hedge fund billionaire who makes like 500 mill >>> a year and has a super yacht and I've got my tiny dual console lol?
Maybe I'm crazy, but if we're going to have a progressive tax
system(which I don't support in the first place), how about making it
truly progressive at the truly high levels.
It's like imagine four people: cashier at wal mart, school teacher,
dentist, hedge fund billionaire.
Somehow our dumb tax system says the school teacher has to pay more than >>> the cashier at wal mart, and the dentist has to pay more than the school >>> teacher(which is defensible even if I disagree with it), but then
shouldn't the hedge fund billionaire(on earnings of course, not capital
gains) have to pay more than the dentist? but in our system,
nope.........it's like you get to a certain (fairly modest) point and
then it's "ok it's all even after that". Which is bonkers.
IOW it's ridiculous to have a 35 and 37% federal tax bracket applied to
ordinary working professionals in certain fields. Those sorts of tax
rates should be applied to like mega wealthy property developers and
stuff who make more money in 1 week than I do in 6 months.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, >>>> liberal personality.” — Altie
derived by dividing your total tax (1040 line 24) by your adjusted gross
income (1040 line 11).
This is what the rest of us have done and it is the generally accepted
definition of effective tax rate. This takes into account all deductions
and tax brackets to boil it down to “what percentage of your income did you
pay in federal income tax”.
I guess....but if that is what 'effective' tax rate means, all you have
to do to know that is just know your post-deduction income, and marital status. Since the deductions have already been accounted for.
To me a more meaningful way of measuring "how one did" on taxes is to
look at what their gross salary before deductions was and what someone actually paid in federal taxes(minus fica). That's a more relevant
measure to me because deductions vary so greatly and quite frankly there
is a lot of grey in how some people do deductions vs others.
And that's the 27% figure for me.
Because I care about what I have some control over. If 'effective' tax
rate just involves post-deduction income and marital status, I don't
really care about that because I have no control over that. There is
nothing I can do at that point(except work less or get married) to
control that. But the deductions otoh I do have some control over, so
thats why I mistakenly assumed 'effective' tax rate would be before taking those into
account. Because as I said above if someone says "oh I only paid 14% as
my effective tax rate", all that tells me is how much they made and their marital status. That doesn't really have anything to do with how "good
they made out on taxes" relative to what they could have done, because
that involves deductions of course.
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 1:07:42 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:27:30 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-6, JGibson wrote:if we're going to have a progressive tax system.
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 3:34:41 PM UTC-5, michael anderson wrote: >>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote: >>>>> No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?)
"The first $215k or so" and you expect us to feel sorry for your tax burden? Um, no.??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average % to get to the first 215k or so is going to averageof about 27%.Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
So honest question- you think random working professionals(your kids orthodontist, the owner of a successful small pharmacy. etc) should have their next earned dollars at the end of every year taxed at the same rate as tycoons? I don't lol.......not
You, me, those people....we're all alike. We all shop at the same stores, live in the same neighborhoods, send our kids to the sameElon Musk but some random
schools. The tycoons? No, they aren't like you or me or your kids doctor. So why does our current tax system attempt to divide us in such
a negative way? Why does it treat people whose economic lives and conditions in a practical sense are fairly similar so differently, yet then treat people whose lives are so different rather similarly?
The reality is I probably wouldn't mind paying a little more than you as a percentage if the actual truly rich people were paying more than me on earned income......
And you see this all the time with politicians, especially dems. Biden or someone will be trying to defend a new tax scheme by saying "why shouldn't Elon Musk have to pay his fair share?"........except the people who actually get targeted in it aren't
dentist lol.......but they can't say that. It doesn't play politically.
All of these Fed plans, SS, Medicare, Income Tax, plus state plans
modeled on them, were originally marketed as being on the "rich" only.
Then they later started on everyone else when they found out there
weren't enough "rich" people.
well for starters I think when one uses the term 'income' or is asked "hey how much did you make", they don't report that with their mortgage interest deductions included lol. I think thats why the terminology has me confused.As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.So your income is $900,000? 37% starts at $539,000 - and that is post-deductions - so if that's 60% of your income, then your total post-deduction income would be $898,333.
If your employer pays you 250k and you have 25k in mortgage interest deductions, you're not going to say "oh my income is 225k" when someone asks. You're going to say 250k.
So I know what my employer paid me last year in salary and I know what I made in self employed contracts, bonuses, etc. I don't know exactly(without looking at tax forms again) what that figure is
Is there any chance it is remotely near $900,000? I am still trying to comprehend how your statement that 40% of your income was taxed at 37% federally is accurate.
well for starters I think when one uses the term 'income' or is asked "hey how much did you make", they don't report that with their mortgage interest deductions included lol. I think thats why the terminology has me confused.As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.So your income is $900,000? 37% starts at $539,000 - and that is post-deductions - so if that's 60% of your income, then your total post-deduction income would be $898,333.
If your employer pays you 250k and you have 25k in mortgage interest deductions, you're not going to say "oh my income is 225k" when someone asks. You're going to say 250k.
So I know what my employer paid me last year in salary and I know what I made in self employed contracts, bonuses, etc. I don't know exactly(without looking at tax forms again) what that figure isIs there any chance it is remotely near $900,000? I am still trying to comprehend how your statement that 40% of your income was taxed at 37% federally is accurate.
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 1:07:42 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:27:30 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:The question asked is simple. What is your effective tax rate, which is >> derived by dividing your total tax (1040 line 24) by your adjusted gross >> income (1040 line 11).
michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-6, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:Either you are stating it wrong or your math is wrong.
No, I'll gladly do it. Unfortunately I paid a federal tax rate(NOT >>>>>>> INCLUDING MEDICARE AND SS....are you guys throwing that in yours?) >>>>>>> of about 27%.Was that 27% of your (pre-deductions) AGI, or 27% of your
post-deductions taxable income? I am asking about the AGI-based number.
??? Since the great majority of my income is taxed at both 35 and 37%, >>>>> of course it's post-deductions. The culmulative pre-deduction average %
to get to the first 215k or so is going to average
about 25% predeductions, but after that's it's 35 and 37(before deductions).
Is it 27% of your AGI (line 11 on your 1040) or 27% of your taxable income
(line 15).
Because if it’s 27% of your taxable income (post-deductions) as you stated
above, then you are in the lower half of the 35% tax bracket and literally
none of your income is being taxed at 37%.
You divide line 24 (total tax) by line 11 (adjusted gross income) to get
your effective tax rate which is what we’re discussing here.
Oh I get it....when I think of it, I look at it like this:
let's say the combination of my employer and my self employment contracts
caused me to 'make' 100 dollars. Without considering deductions.
What I'm saying is *after* my deductions I paid 27 dollars. So I guess >>> the % I paid on taxable income was less, if taxable income is the part after deductions.
But then Im confused by the original question....because if he is only >>> considering post-deduction percentages, why not ask just what my after >>> deduction income was? Since as you point out you can calculate that from that.....
what most people care about when comparing how they 'did' in taxes is >>> what percentage of the money they 'got paid' they then had to pay the >>> govt.....which of course depends on how much you make, marital status, >>> and deductions. What I believe Im saying is I paid 27% just in federal >>> taxes(not state, not fica) of what the sum of my employer paid me and my >>> self employed contract work paid me. Like if "michael
s employer" paid me 100 dollars this year I ended up paying 27 dollars of
that to the federal govt. And the cap of course in fica(which is like 14-15k?).....
Hell here is the kicker....just in something called the 'additional
medicare tax' I paid like 7k or whatever....I don't mean I paid 7k total >>> for the medicare percentage that there is no cap on. It's crazy for
starters that the medicare part of FICA has no cap.....so I paid that on >>> all my income. But they hit me with what's called an 'additional
medicare tax'. And that was like 7k. Gone. poof. Isn't the fact that
the medicare tax of like 1.5% or whatever, unlike SS, not capped make >>> that 'additional'? That's what I thought it referred to at first.....no, >>> this refers to an additional near 1 percent on top of the additional
uncapped bit. When I first saw that on my pay stub one year I just
thought "ok, now they are rsfcking with me......"
As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I >>> don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in >>> the 37. It would be less if married. Which brings me to another
question/problem with our tax system....why are the last dollars I earned
taxed the same way as some hedge fund billionaire who makes like 500 mill
a year and has a super yacht and I've got my tiny dual console lol?
Maybe I'm crazy, but if we're going to have a progressive tax
system(which I don't support in the first place), how about making it >>> truly progressive at the truly high levels.
It's like imagine four people: cashier at wal mart, school teacher,
dentist, hedge fund billionaire.
Somehow our dumb tax system says the school teacher has to pay more than >>> the cashier at wal mart, and the dentist has to pay more than the school >>> teacher(which is defensible even if I disagree with it), but then
shouldn't the hedge fund billionaire(on earnings of course, not capital >>> gains) have to pay more than the dentist? but in our system,
nope.........it's like you get to a certain (fairly modest) point and >>> then it's "ok it's all even after that". Which is bonkers.
IOW it's ridiculous to have a 35 and 37% federal tax bracket applied to >>> ordinary working professionals in certain fields. Those sorts of tax
rates should be applied to like mega wealthy property developers and
stuff who make more money in 1 week than I do in 6 months.
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie
This is what the rest of us have done and it is the generally accepted
definition of effective tax rate. This takes into account all deductions >> and tax brackets to boil it down to “what percentage of your income did you
pay in federal income tax”.
I guess....but if that is what 'effective' tax rate means, all you have
to do to know that is just know your post-deduction income, and marital status. Since the deductions have already been accounted for.
To me a more meaningful way of measuring "how one did" on taxes is toThat’s exactly what we’re asking you for. Adjusted gross income is your total income before deductions.
look at what their gross salary before deductions was and what someone actually paid in federal taxes(minus fica). That's a more relevant
measure to me because deductions vary so greatly and quite frankly there is a lot of grey in how some people do deductions vs others.
And that's the 27% figure for me.So your 1040 line 24 / line 11 is 0.27?
Because I care about what I have some control over. If 'effective' tax rate just involves post-deduction income and marital status, I don't really care about that because I have no control over that. There is nothing I can do at that point(except work less or get married) toEffective tax rate is the true measure of your tax burden since it’s the percent of your total income that you paid in taxes after all is said and done…including what you can and cannot control. You claim to be concerned about your true tax burden. Are you? Why do you keep trying to redefine
control that. But the deductions otoh I do have some control over, so thats why I mistakenly assumed 'effective' tax rate would be before taking those into
account. Because as I said above if someone says "oh I only paid 14% as
my effective tax rate", all that tells me is how much they made and their marital status. That doesn't really have anything to do with how "good they made out on taxes" relative to what they could have done, because that involves deductions of course.
it, like you’re trying to avoid answering the question?
--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie
On 3/12/2023 7:15 PM, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
well for starters I think when one uses the term 'income' or is asked "hey how much did you make", they don't report that with their mortgage interest deductions included lol. I think thats why the terminology has me confused.As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.So your income is $900,000? 37% starts at $539,000 - and that is post-deductions - so if that's 60% of your income, then your total post-deduction income would be $898,333.
If your employer pays you 250k and you have 25k in mortgage interest deductions, you're not going to say "oh my income is 225k" when someone asks. You're going to say 250k.
So I know what my employer paid me last year in salary and I know what I made in self employed contracts, bonuses, etc. I don't know exactly(without looking at tax forms again) what that figure is
Is there any chance it is remotely near $900,000? I am still trying to comprehend how your statement that 40% of your income was taxed at 37% federally is accurate.
That's a buttload of Suboxone.
--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen
Слава Україні та НАТО
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 6:15:30 PM UTC-5, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:are doing a building fund), a car I donated to 'cars' for kids, a new rolex I bought(time monitoring device....sort of a grey area but everyone does it), money in sep-ira..... Some other stuff I'm forgetting.....but as you can see from that 27% number it
well for starters I think when one uses the term 'income' or is asked "hey how much did you make", they don't report that with their mortgage interest deductions included lol. I think thats why the terminology has me confused.As for brackets, no I definately blow through the 35% and a good chunk(I don't have exact numbers now....maybe 40% total post-deduction?) is in the 37.So your income is $900,000? 37% starts at $539,000 - and that is post-deductions - so if that's 60% of your income, then your total post-deduction income would be $898,333.
If your employer pays you 250k and you have 25k in mortgage interest deductions, you're not going to say "oh my income is 225k" when someone asks. You're going to say 250k.
I don't have the exact number on hand and don't want to give a specific number....my AGI was more than that im sure, and then I had mortgage interest deductions on 3 houses, capped SALT, donations my mom made to her church in my name(a lot since theySo I know what my employer paid me last year in salary and I know what I made in self employed contracts, bonuses, etc. I don't know exactly(without looking at tax forms again) what that figure isIs there any chance it is remotely near $900,000? I am still trying to comprehend how your statement that 40% of your income was taxed at 37% federally is accurate.
about your true tax burden. Are you?
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