• I'm old enough to remember when rsfc conservatives loved to quote Jonah

    From xyzzy@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 12 06:02:57 2022
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    What an amazingly stupid time this is.

    Here’s an easy thought experiment. Imagine a Third World banana republic. A populist leader recently ousted in an allegedly “rigged” election is waiting in the wings, plotting a return to power. The current ruler sends armed agents of the state to
    search the ousted ruler’s home in the hope of discrediting his once and possibly future opponent, presumably to prevent him from ever threatening his rule.

    This, according to everyone from Donald Trump to large swaths of the GOP and its loyal commentariat, is what happened this week when the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago. “Such an assault could only take place in broken, Third-World countries,” Trump declared.
    “Sadly, America has now become one of those countries, corrupt at a level not seen before.” His son echoed the sentiment: “Biden’s out of control DOJ is ripping this country apart with how they're openly targeting their political enemies. This
    is what you see happen in 3rd World Banana Republics!!!”

    Similar declarations are all over the place.

    But let’s return to the thought experiment: What happens next? The ousted ruler and his representatives claim that this affront to his dignity is really an insult to all of his supporters. Like followers of Hugo Chavez or Manuel Ortega, they insist
    that only by returning their leader in internal exile to power can they avenge this travesty and purge the government of these enemies of the people.

    That’s the argument raging like a religious awakening across much of the right this week. Once Trump announces he’s running for president, Mike Huckabee insists, “We need to rally around him and simply say, ‘He is the candidate.’ He will be re-
    elected. That’s because he’s the only candidate who’ll have the guts to take on this incredibly corrupt machine. We must put him back in and let him do this. I’m convinced at this point that this is the only hope for our nation, to get it back to
    the point where people can believe in it.”

    This isn’t an argument against banana republic politics, it is banana republic politics. Let’s put aside any consideration of primaries or policy debates and simply anoint a strong man to redeem our nation, purge corruption, and punish our enemies.

    I’ll put it plainly: If your “belief” in our country is so fragile and pathetic that you will lose “hope for our nation” unless Donald Trump is given free reign to cleanse the land of evildoers, then you don’t actually believe in this nation.
    If your love of country is contingent on your preferred faction being in power, you’ve confused partisanship for patriotism. Taken seriously, all of this banana republic talk is un-American.

    I don’t mean it’s a wrong or flawed argument or simply an argument I don’t like—though it is all those things. I mean it is literally an un-American argument because it fundamentally betrays the whole idea of this country. And I’d say this if
    the claims were made about any politician. Indeed, I did. When Barack Obama’s boosters claimed he would fix our “broken souls” (in Michelle Obama’s words), I spared no effort in denouncing them. When Joe Biden sermonized about how “unity”—
    under his banner—was the answer to all our problems, I trotted out all my arguments against the “cult of unity,” which constantly threatens our constitutional system of separated powers and divided government.

    Presidents are not redeemers, messiahs, incarnations of mystical aspirations, or righteous settlers of seething grievances. They’re not god-kings or the fathers of our American family. They’re politicians elected to do some specific things as the
    head of one branch of one level of government. They get that job for a limited and defined period of time, and afterward they’re simply citizens.

    It’s a source of constant consternation and amazement for me that so many people either don’t understand this or simply pretend not to.

    I don’t know for sure which politicians and pundits yammering about our “corrupt regime” are truly ignorant and which are merely duplicitous demagogues chumming the waters with bloody nonsense. But I do know it’s dangerous, because whether they
    believe it or not, they want millions of people to believe it.

    Our regime.

    But let’s talk about our “regime,” a term these people use with Vizzini-like confidence and error.

    In 2004, a lot of angry Democrats loved the phrase “regime change starts at home.” The idea was that voting George W. Bush out of office would constitute “regime change”—a term popularized by both Bill Clinton and Bush with regard to our policy
    on Iraq.

    The stupidity of this talking point—later picked up in the Obama years by conservatives—begins with the fact that elections are how our regime works. A regime, by definition, is a system of government, not an administration run by elected Democrats
    or Republicans. When serious people talk seriously about changing a regime, they’re talking about changing the system of government. Regime change in Iraq meant getting rid of a totalitarian, terroristic dictatorship, not simply replacing Saddam
    Hussein with a more pliable and cooperative tyrant.

    America’s regime isn’t on any ballot. Symbolically, it is the ballot. More properly, it is the constitutional system that requires our leaders to be elected. But unlike in an actual banana republic or the Third World Marxist dictatorships Marco Rubio
    compares us to, electing a leader doesn’t change the regime. There are roughly 520,000 elected officials in this country. At the federal level there are 537 of them. The president is just one of them.

    Like every other elected official, the president is subordinate to the Constitution, which is another way of saying he is not the regime, he’s a servant of the regime. None of those elected officials, including the president, is your boss (unless you’
    re on their payroll or serve in the military). Indeed, the president literally has no formal power to order any of those 536 other federal officeholders to do anything. He cannot make Congress—or even his vice president—do something they do not want
    to do because they, too, derive their authority from the Constitution and the people.

    Even the people in the executive branch who do have to follow the president’s orders may not follow orders that are unlawful or unconstitutional. Because again, the ultimate political authority in our system is not vested in a person, but in a piece of
    parchment.

    That’s our regime, and I love it regardless of who the president is.

    Which brings us to the search at Mar-a-Lago. Like all the people bleating about the “Biden regime,” I have no idea if searching the former president’s home was a wise decision. But from every account I’ve read, it was a lawful decision. Dictators
    do not typically seek warrants from judges when they send police to search the homes of their political opponents. Heck, if the reporting is to be believed, the White House didn’t even know what had happened until after the deed was done.

    Again, none of this means that the DOJ or the FBI didn’t make a terrible decision or otherwise screw up. We’ve seen plenty of evidence in recent years that they’re perfectly capable of both. But if J. Edgar Hoover’s stewardship of the FBI didn’
    t indict the legitimacy of the regime, I don’t see how this could, because government screws up all the time. That’s one of the reasons we have so many elections. James Madison’s whole vision was to use elections, at every level of government, as a
    regular and predictable cleansing tide to sweep away stagnant waters. In fact, if the DOJ actually had good reason to search Trump’s home, meeting all of the legal requirements of probable cause etc., we would have moved closer to a banana republic if
    they turned a blind eye. As Kevin Williamson writes:

    If we really believe, as we say we believe, that this is a republic, that nobody is above the law, that the presidency is just a temporary executive-branch office rather than a quasi-royal entitlement, then there is nothing all that remarkable about the
    FBI serving a warrant on a house in Florida. I myself do not find it especially difficult to believe that there exists reasonable cause for such a warrant. And if the feds have got it wrong, that wouldn’t be the first time. Those so-called
    conservatives who are publicly fantasizing about an FBI purge under the next Republican administration are engaged in a particularly stupid form of irresponsibility.

    By all means, vote Biden out of office. I don’t think he’s up to the job and I think most of his policies have been bad. Bring on the cleansing tide.

    But what I can’t get my head around is the idea that the solution to our allegedly bananifying regime is to put that browning, mealy, giant banana back into power.

    Let’s return—just one more time—to that thought experiment. What I left out is that the ousted ruler seeking to return to power whose home was searched had tried to steal the last election by spreading lies about its legitimacy and treating the
    Constitution like a dead letter. He declared victory despite being assured he lost by his own attorney general and campaign manager. He wanted the DOJ to simply declare the election corrupt so he could do the rest. He toyed with the idea of using the
    military to seize voting machines as some sort of pretextual theater. He railed at his Supreme Court appointees for their lack of personal loyalty when they failed to go along with his scheme. He wanted to appoint a deluded and pliable flunky as the head
    of the DOJ because he was willing to run wild with propaganda about the election being stolen. He invited a mob to the capitol to scare Congress into helping him steal the election and did nothing for hours when the rabble turned violent and even erected
    a gallows to hang his own vice president. He and his junta now talk about these criminals as if they are political prisoners unjustly persecuted by a corrupt regime.

    If you’re worried about America looking like a banana republic, please don’t tell me that the first president in American history to defecate on the peaceful transfer of power is the antidote to the rot of Third World corruption of our regime. He is
    the rot.

    Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Fri Aug 12 11:04:32 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 6:02:59 AM UTC-7, xyzzy wrote:

    Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?

    I had a much longer, and I thought well thought-out, answer to this post - and may attempt to reconstitute it tonight.

    Since the air conditioning, etc., is overloading the circuits in this building, I got zotted.

    So, I'm going to have to answer thusly:

    What is wrong with these people is the concept of one man's terrorist being another's freedom fighter.

    They had January 6th if they had the balls to shoot -- and not turn the entire event into a social-media photo op.

    They NEED the Second American Civil War, they NEED to kill us (as they say they _want_ to), and nothing in the current Constitutional system will change that -- because they are anti-Constitutional, anti-human rights, etc. ...

    And so is their interpretation (and the probable TRUTH) of the Originalist doctrine of "what the Fathers intended.

    They're not getting the 67 Senate votes to remove -- and the concept of actually just simply nullifying consent (as I said before) took a serious hit when the Pennsylvania Supreme Court revalidated the 2019 election rules under which the 2020 election
    was held in the state.

    People laugh when I say it, but it is true: For them to survive and thrive, people like me must be killed.

    For the safety of their wives and daughters (or is that baby machines and sammich machines who have the right to be raped by Mr. Touchdown USA, Mr. CEO, and no one else?)...

    For the safety of THEIR cities (if they exist at all in the future doctrine)...

    And for THEIR lives, fortunes, and sacred honors...

    So my question, as said before: Since the conditions appear to be met, WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY WAITING FOR?

    Mike

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  • From JGibson@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Fri Aug 12 11:45:42 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con Reeder, and Wonko?

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  • From TE@21:1/5 to JGibson on Fri Aug 12 12:22:22 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 2:45:44 PM UTC-4, JGibson wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con Reeder, and Wonko?

    ...and the libs would quote Glen Greenwald, so I guess that makes him right all the time....<yawn>

    -TE

    "The definition of an extreme authoritarian is one who is willing blindly to assume that government
    accusations are true without any evidence presented or opportunity to contest those accusations."
    -Glenn Greenwald

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  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to randorwell@gmail.com on Fri Aug 12 19:46:55 2022
    TE <randorwell@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 2:45:44 PM UTC-4, JGibson wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con Reeder, and Wonko?

    ...and the libs would quote Glen Greenwald, so I guess that makes him
    right all the time....<yawn>

    -TE

    "The definition of an extreme authoritarian is one who is willing blindly
    to assume that government
    accusations are true without any evidence presented or opportunity to
    contest those accusations."
    -Glenn Greenwald

    WTF are you talking about? I just did a search of this newsgroup on Google (admittedly not always perfect but the best we have) and the only people quoting Greenwald are conservatives.

    Maybe he “used to be liberal” but if so then when he was we weren’t quoting
    him the way you guys used to always drop Jonah Goldberg columns like they
    were received wisdom.

    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 12 20:40:37 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 6:02:59 AM UTC-7, xyzzy wrote:

    The first thing you have to remember with this thought experiment:

    They scoff us for not knowing "male" and "female", when, for the first almost 100 years of our country above-table and another 100 of it below-table, they have dispute of us not only as to "human" and "not human", but "sent by God" and otherwise!

    We cannot agree on the most trivial of points with these animals.

    Here’s an easy thought experiment. Imagine a Third World banana republic. A populist leader recently ousted in an allegedly “rigged” election is waiting in the wings, plotting a return to power. The current ruler sends armed agents of the state
    to search the ousted ruler’s home in the hope of discrediting his once and possibly future opponent, presumably to prevent him from ever threatening his rule.

    This is where the concept of "One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" comes into play.

    It's not an insurrection if the election was, in fact, rigged or stolen. The problem is, only one side believes this -- and I believe much of the belief stands from the ability to vote of sammich/baby machines under the 19th Amendment, farm equipment
    under the 14th, and... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww under the 14th, etc.

    These White Righters believe they are the only beings sent from God, and everything else is instrument to them, from women as a rib from Holy God Man Adam to the savages and animals and farm equipment, and when can they use God to kill all the "others"
    masquerading as human (as far as they are concerned)?

    In short, the entire concept of this country is completely failed to them, at this point, and they want restored the Constitution of Manifest Destiny -- kill everyone in the way, and only White Men Landowners have a voice.

    This, according to everyone from Donald Trump to large swaths of the GOP and its loyal commentariat, is what happened this week when the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago. “Such an assault could only take place in broken, Third-World countries,” Trump
    declared. “Sadly, America has now become one of those countries, corrupt at a level not seen before.” His son echoed the sentiment: “Biden’s out of control DOJ is ripping this country apart with how they're openly targeting their political
    enemies. This is what you see happen in 3rd World Banana Republics!!!”

    The fact is, that we are allowed to vote... Hell, allowed to BREATHE makes us a Third-World Banana Republic.

    And someone might wanna remind these twits that success on their part probably reduces America to a vassal state of Russia. Tout suite.

    But let’s return to the thought experiment: What happens next? The ousted ruler and his representatives claim that this affront to his dignity is really an insult to all of his supporters. Like followers of Hugo Chavez or Manuel Ortega, they insist
    that only by returning their leader in internal exile to power can they avenge this travesty and purge the government of these enemies of the people.

    It pretty much is.

    The problem is, the next situation is even more of an insult. We now know they had inside help and probably the covert sanction of the current (outgoing?) President. We know they invaded the Capitol grounds to break in for the first group to do so
    since the WAR OF 1812!

    And what comes of it?

    A fucking social-media event.

    If they are even remotely serious about the situation, THEY. FUCKING. OPEN. FIRE.

    On anyone and anything else that moves. They take the Capitol, they take DC, and then we find out whose side the military really IS on.

    And to use the reality-show model: They don't want a President.

    They want the order to open fire.

    They want the host of the next and ULTIMATE reality show: The Purge.

    That’s the argument raging like a religious awakening across much of the right this week. Once Trump announces he’s running for president, Mike Huckabee insists, “We need to rally around him and simply say, ‘He is the candidate.’ He will be
    re-elected. That’s because he’s the only candidate who’ll have the guts to take on this incredibly corrupt machine. We must put him back in and let him do this. I’m convinced at this point that this is the only hope for our nation, to get it back
    to the point where people can believe in it.”

    The only way you're doing that is to gut the American cities and kill tens of millions.

    Seriously.

    I'd put the starting bid, at this point, at the leftward-most 100 million NOW and another 100 million over the next 20 or so years, to be replaced with those White babies the abortion bans will ensure take birth.

    (That's not a number I pull out of my ass either. Libertarian economist blogger Karl Denninger believes the entire last 40 years of "growth" has been hopelessly leveraged and that it all must come out for the country to regain economic mathematical
    balance. Forgetting, of course, the 100 million the population has increased in that time. That is not to say the youngest 100 million would have to go -- but, in the eyes of the White Right, it'd have to be the leftward 100 million.)

    And the other question you need to ask: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU FUCKS WAITING FOR?

    Any metric of government tyranny which would trigger in the two-brain-cell White Right brain "In the course of human events..." HAS BEEN ACHIEVED. You've lost AT LEAST four years to a tyrannical [sic] government which actually recognizes human beings
    and human rights you don't even believe God gave the animals, savages, and ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww...

    So I respect that guy from Ohio. I actually do. He actually did lay down his life because the situation had gone beyond critical mass -- and he did exactly what he believes the Constitution gave him the right to.

    So the question remains: Are we the terrorists, or are you, Republican voters and supporters?

    This isn’t an argument against banana republic politics, it is banana republic politics. Let’s put aside any consideration of primaries or policy debates and simply anoint a strong man to redeem our nation, purge corruption, and punish our enemies.

    But that's what they want. They are DONE with us voting.

    As I've said repeatedly and been laughed at: They are done feeding us, housing us, seeing us, tolerating our lives.

    DONE.

    I’ll put it plainly: If your “belief” in our country is so fragile and pathetic that you will lose “hope for our nation” unless Donald Trump is given free reign to cleanse the land of evildoers, then you don’t actually believe in this
    nation. If your love of country is contingent on your preferred faction being in power, you’ve confused partisanship for patriotism. Taken seriously, all of this banana republic talk is un-American.

    They don't believe in THIS nation.

    They believe this nation is Satan-spawn from the loss of the Civil War and the imposition of rights AGAINST the White Cis-Male Landowner in the 14th Amendment in 1868.

    They believe THIS nation is dead. And they now will want to kill it and resurrect it in their eliminative image.

    In short, from "The Purge": "God bless our New Founding Fathers and America, a nation reborn."

    We ARE the evildoers to them -- and I'm more than tempted to show them just what evil can do if that's all they see us as!

    I don’t mean it’s a wrong or flawed argument or simply an argument I don’t like—though it is all those things. I mean it is literally an un-American argument because it fundamentally betrays the whole idea of this country. And I’d say this if
    the claims were made about any politician. Indeed, I did. When Barack Obama’s boosters claimed he would fix our “broken souls” (in Michelle Obama’s words), I spared no effort in denouncing them. When Joe Biden sermonized about how “unity”—
    under his banner—was the answer to all our problems, I trotted out all my arguments against the “cult of unity,” which constantly threatens our constitutional system of separated powers and divided government.

    "Unity" is the last thing they want. Because, to be unified with us would be indicative that we are human, important, and have value -- and that's three things Proud Boy America does NOT believe in.

    The problem is, that level of disunity blows it all up, because it reduces us to basically hunting each other down and eliminating each other because we are in the way -- not unlike the style of the Manifest Destiny hunting down the Indians like they
    were meat for food.

    This is another reason I say to shoot or shut up -- we cannot co-exist. We will not co-exist, and it is rapidly getting to the point if there was enough room for both of us, there isn't much else "enough" left for the both of us, as the current economic
    situation is showing.

    Presidents are not redeemers, messiahs, incarnations of mystical aspirations, or righteous settlers of seething grievances. They’re not god-kings or the fathers of our American family. They’re politicians elected to do some specific things as the
    head of one branch of one level of government. They get that job for a limited and defined period of time, and afterward they’re simply citizens.

    And that's the problem: They no longer want a President.

    They want a God-King, sent from God to purge this land of the "others" so that only the White Men can enjoy it and the baby machines and farm equipment are under them!

    It’s a source of constant consternation and amazement for me that so many people either don’t understand this or simply pretend not to.

    I think they understand, at least as much as 90-95 IQ can. It has already been shown that the stupid tend to gravitate to Fox News, etc.

    I don’t know for sure which politicians and pundits yammering about our “corrupt regime” are truly ignorant and which are merely duplicitous demagogues chumming the waters with bloody nonsense. But I do know it’s dangerous, because whether they
    believe it or not, they want millions of people to believe it.

    And, frankly, I believe millions do. It is one of the reasons I believe we have lost to the coronavirus, already lost 5 or more million to the virus, and can't have that said because some people would cheer that level of death and destruction, while the
    rest would probably riot, knowing the number could be much, much higher.

    Our regime.

    Remember what Rush Limpballs started saying about America the day Clinton took office: "America Held Hostage".

    Since then, a Black man has held the office and now even worse...

    But let’s talk about our “regime,” a term these people use with Vizzini-like confidence and error.

    In 2004, a lot of angry Democrats loved the phrase “regime change starts at home.” The idea was that voting George W. Bush out of office would constitute “regime change”—a term popularized by both Bill Clinton and Bush with regard to our
    policy on Iraq.

    Remember, also, that many of us also viewed Dick Cheney and his Project For a New American Century (PNAC) as a probable cause for that America had a role in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

    The stupidity of this talking point—later picked up in the Obama years by conservatives—begins with the fact that elections are how our regime works. A regime, by definition, is a system of government, not an administration run by elected Democrats
    or Republicans. When serious people talk seriously about changing a regime, they’re talking about changing the system of government. Regime change in Iraq meant getting rid of a totalitarian, terroristic dictatorship, not simply replacing Saddam
    Hussein with a more pliable and cooperative tyrant.

    The problem is, as you probably well know, Saddam was our man before he was of no further use to us. And then remember this...

    America’s regime isn’t on any ballot. Symbolically, it is the ballot. More properly, it is the constitutional system that requires our leaders to be elected. But unlike in an actual banana republic or the Third World Marxist dictatorships Marco
    Rubio compares us to, electing a leader doesn’t change the regime. There are roughly 520,000 elected officials in this country. At the federal level there are 537 of them. The president is just one of them.

    Part of the problem is that the removal of much (most?) of the elected officials and even more of the voters is part of the point. The fact that baby/sammich machines/sex toys and farm equipment and the useless eaters and the... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
    .. are allowed to vote (and, in many cases, breathe life at all!!!) means that the ballot, at it's most fundamental level, is, in fact, similarly flawed!

    Remember: This time Trump wants to loyalty test his serfs in the government if he reattains power.

    Like every other elected official, the president is subordinate to the Constitution, which is another way of saying he is not the regime, he’s a servant of the regime. None of those elected officials, including the president, is your boss (unless you
    re on their payroll or serve in the military). Indeed, the president literally has no formal power to order any of those 536 other federal officeholders to do anything. He cannot make Congress—or even his vice president—do something they do not
    want to do because they, too, derive their authority from the Constitution and the people.

    And that's the problem on a number of levels.

    Trump really does believe in The Apprentice, and believes the country should be run as if it were a corporation. Hence, he is The Boss, as it were.

    The second problem is the Republican mantra of the Constitution (especially 13th Amendment onward) as a "goddamned piece of paper", so they don't even believe in that subordinance, and have now manipulated that they probably will have the final
    Constitutional word on law for the next 20, if not more, years.

    They believe in neither the Constitution nor the people, especially those they don't even consider human (see above).

    Even the people in the executive branch who do have to follow the president’s orders may not follow orders that are unlawful or unconstitutional. Because again, the ultimate political authority in our system is not vested in a person, but in a piece
    of parchment.

    A "goddamned piece of paper" most of them don't believe in in the first place -- especially, as I just said, Amendment 13 and forward.

    And the other problem with that is the concept of too many people are able to ENFORCE "I AM THE LAW!" and, therefore, even if the order is unlawful or unconstitutional, a lot of good that does you if you get locked up, lose your job and perhaps your
    family for disobeying it.

    That’s our regime, and I love it regardless of who the president is.

    They don't. And it's a lot more than just FJB. It's the fact of the people who are allowed to exist because "that goddamned piece of paper" hasn't gotten around yet to allow for their extermination. Look for Trump to change that, starting with the low-
    hanging fruit, if he retakes power.

    Which brings us to the search at Mar-a-Lago. Like all the people bleating about the “Biden regime,” I have no idea if searching the former president’s home was a wise decision. But from every account I’ve read, it was a lawful decision.
    Dictators do not typically seek warrants from judges when they send police to search the homes of their political opponents. Heck, if the reporting is to be believed, the White House didn’t even know what had happened until after the deed was done.

    What it IS, though, is that the one thing you can say the Right tells the truth about it is simple: We've crossed the Rubicon, and, especially with the rhetoric being put forward, going back may well be nigh impossible. I related that I don't think
    there's an option left which does not lead us down a nasty road. He either reascends as effective God-King, or has done so much, he's put to death and the entire system loses enough face and faith, it probably goes with him.

    Again, none of this means that the DOJ or the FBI didn’t make a terrible decision or otherwise screw up. We’ve seen plenty of evidence in recent years that they’re perfectly capable of both. But if J. Edgar Hoover’s stewardship of the FBI didn
    t indict the legitimacy of the regime, I don’t see how this could, because government screws up all the time. That’s one of the reasons we have so many elections. James Madison’s whole vision was to use elections, at every level of government, as
    a regular and predictable cleansing tide to sweep away stagnant waters. In fact, if the DOJ actually had good reason to search Trump’s home, meeting all of the legal requirements of probable cause etc., we would have moved closer to a banana republic
    if they turned a blind eye. As Kevin Williamson writes:

    One major reason: The 30-40% of this country literally waiting with baited breath for one man to give one order: Open fire.

    If the DoJ or FBI screws this up, you can bet that someone named Trump will be calling for the storming of every FBI office in the nation.

    And another thing: These people, especially the White Men, want this to be THE LAST CLEANSING by the ballot box, with the next being the cartridge box.

    When Hoover screwed up, he didn't have millions of White Men wanting to kill others and posting their gun porn on the Internet and claiming they wanted to do shit -- while the rest of us are still waiting and want to take their "Proud Boy" tattoos and
    photoshop "Pussy" where they are.

    If we really believe, as we say we believe, that this is a republic, that nobody is above the law, that the presidency is just a temporary executive-branch office rather than a quasi-royal entitlement, then there is nothing all that remarkable about
    the FBI serving a warrant on a house in Florida. I myself do not find it especially difficult to believe that there exists reasonable cause for such a warrant. And if the feds have got it wrong, that wouldn’t be the first time. Those so-called
    conservatives who are publicly fantasizing about an FBI purge under the next Republican administration are engaged in a particularly stupid form of irresponsibility.

    And you just basically made the false premise. (Not that I slam you for doing so -- these people believe Trump was anointed by God to kill the useless, the LGBTQ's, and anyone else "in the way".)

    In short, if he succeeds, a second Manifest Destiny to retake the country (with lethal force in places like California, Washington, Oregon, Chicago, Baltimore especially -- and more!) from sea to shining sea.

    By all means, vote Biden out of office. I don’t think he’s up to the job and I think most of his policies have been bad. Bring on the cleansing tide.

    I don't think you can afford the alternative unless you want the "others" dead.

    As for me, I felt it's either vote Trump out (regardless of the opponent), take the five years in prison for threatening his life in a second term, or go violent and die as a result, Schiffer-style.

    I never felt Biden would last six months in the office of President -- but one examination of the current legislative impossibility a Presidential resignation would create (in short, no Vice President would be seated unless the Dems win the Senate
    outright) indicates why we haven't had President Kamala Harris for the last 12 months.

    (And bring on the Rightie tears at THAT result!)

    But what I can’t get my head around is the idea that the solution to our allegedly bananifying regime is to put that browning, mealy, giant banana back into power.

    Two words, kid: Open fire. All he has to do is give the order, and your question will be answered in inglorious detail.

    Let’s return—just one more time—to that thought experiment. What I left out is that the ousted ruler seeking to return to power whose home was searched had tried to steal the last election by spreading lies about its legitimacy and treating the
    Constitution like a dead letter. He declared victory despite being assured he lost by his own attorney general and campaign manager. He wanted the DOJ to simply declare the election corrupt so he could do the rest. He toyed with the idea of using the
    military to seize voting machines as some sort of pretextual theater. He railed at his Supreme Court appointees for their lack of personal loyalty when they failed to go along with his scheme. He wanted to appoint a deluded and pliable flunky as the head
    of the DOJ because he was willing to run wild with propaganda about the election being stolen. He invited a mob to the capitol to scare Congress into helping him steal the election and did nothing for hours when the rabble turned violent and even erected
    a gallows to hang his own vice president. He and his junta now talk about these criminals as if they are political prisoners unjustly persecuted by a corrupt regime.

    One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

    If you’re worried about America looking like a banana republic, please don’t tell me that the first president in American history to defecate on the peaceful transfer of power is the antidote to the rot of Third World corruption of our regime. He
    is the rot.

    Not quite. I think their antidote is the blood of 100 million godless, useless, unAmerican types.

    Mike

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  • From unclejr@21:1/5 to Michael Falkner on Fri Aug 12 21:01:40 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 10:40:39 PM UTC-5, Michael Falkner wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 6:02:59 AM UTC-7, xyzzy wrote:
    The first thing you have to remember with this thought experiment:

    They scoff us for not knowing "male" and "female", when, for the first almost 100 years of our country above-table and another 100 of it below-table, they have dispute of us not only as to "human" and "not human", but "sent by God" and otherwise!

    We cannot agree on the most trivial of points with these animals.
    Here’s an easy thought experiment. Imagine a Third World banana republic. A populist leader recently ousted in an allegedly “rigged” election is waiting in the wings, plotting a return to power. The current ruler sends armed agents of the state
    to search the ousted ruler’s home in the hope of discrediting his once and possibly future opponent, presumably to prevent him from ever threatening his rule.
    This is where the concept of "One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" comes into play.

    It's not an insurrection if the election was, in fact, rigged or stolen. The problem is, only one side believes this -- and I believe much of the belief stands from the ability to vote of sammich/baby machines under the 19th Amendment, farm equipment
    under the 14th, and... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww under the 14th, etc.

    These White Righters believe they are the only beings sent from God, and everything else is instrument to them, from women as a rib from Holy God Man Adam to the savages and animals and farm equipment, and when can they use God to kill all the "others"
    masquerading as human (as far as they are concerned)?

    In short, the entire concept of this country is completely failed to them, at this point, and they want restored the Constitution of Manifest Destiny -- kill everyone in the way, and only White Men Landowners have a voice.
    This, according to everyone from Donald Trump to large swaths of the GOP and its loyal commentariat, is what happened this week when the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago. “Such an assault could only take place in broken, Third-World countries,” Trump
    declared. “Sadly, America has now become one of those countries, corrupt at a level not seen before.” His son echoed the sentiment: “Biden’s out of control DOJ is ripping this country apart with how they're openly targeting their political
    enemies. This is what you see happen in 3rd World Banana Republics!!!”
    The fact is, that we are allowed to vote... Hell, allowed to BREATHE makes us a Third-World Banana Republic.

    And someone might wanna remind these twits that success on their part probably reduces America to a vassal state of Russia. Tout suite.
    But let’s return to the thought experiment: What happens next? The ousted ruler and his representatives claim that this affront to his dignity is really an insult to all of his supporters. Like followers of Hugo Chavez or Manuel Ortega, they insist
    that only by returning their leader in internal exile to power can they avenge this travesty and purge the government of these enemies of the people.
    It pretty much is.

    The problem is, the next situation is even more of an insult. We now know they had inside help and probably the covert sanction of the current (outgoing?) President. We know they invaded the Capitol grounds to break in for the first group to do so
    since the WAR OF 1812!

    And what comes of it?

    A fucking social-media event.

    If they are even remotely serious about the situation, THEY. FUCKING. OPEN. FIRE.

    On anyone and anything else that moves. They take the Capitol, they take DC, and then we find out whose side the military really IS on.

    And to use the reality-show model: They don't want a President.

    They want the order to open fire.

    They want the host of the next and ULTIMATE reality show: The Purge.
    That’s the argument raging like a religious awakening across much of the right this week. Once Trump announces he’s running for president, Mike Huckabee insists, “We need to rally around him and simply say, ‘He is the candidate.’ He will be
    re-elected. That’s because he’s the only candidate who’ll have the guts to take on this incredibly corrupt machine. We must put him back in and let him do this. I’m convinced at this point that this is the only hope for our nation, to get it back
    to the point where people can believe in it.”
    The only way you're doing that is to gut the American cities and kill tens of millions.

    Seriously.

    I'd put the starting bid, at this point, at the leftward-most 100 million NOW and another 100 million over the next 20 or so years, to be replaced with those White babies the abortion bans will ensure take birth.

    (That's not a number I pull out of my ass either. Libertarian economist blogger Karl Denninger believes the entire last 40 years of "growth" has been hopelessly leveraged and that it all must come out for the country to regain economic mathematical
    balance. Forgetting, of course, the 100 million the population has increased in that time. That is not to say the youngest 100 million would have to go -- but, in the eyes of the White Right, it'd have to be the leftward 100 million.)

    And the other question you need to ask: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU FUCKS WAITING FOR?

    Any metric of government tyranny which would trigger in the two-brain-cell White Right brain "In the course of human events..." HAS BEEN ACHIEVED. You've lost AT LEAST four years to a tyrannical [sic] government which actually recognizes human beings
    and human rights you don't even believe God gave the animals, savages, and ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww...

    So I respect that guy from Ohio. I actually do. He actually did lay down his life because the situation had gone beyond critical mass -- and he did exactly what he believes the Constitution gave him the right to.

    So the question remains: Are we the terrorists, or are you, Republican voters and supporters?
    This isn’t an argument against banana republic politics, it is banana republic politics. Let’s put aside any consideration of primaries or policy debates and simply anoint a strong man to redeem our nation, purge corruption, and punish our
    enemies.
    But that's what they want. They are DONE with us voting.

    As I've said repeatedly and been laughed at: They are done feeding us, housing us, seeing us, tolerating our lives.

    DONE.
    I’ll put it plainly: If your “belief” in our country is so fragile and pathetic that you will lose “hope for our nation” unless Donald Trump is given free reign to cleanse the land of evildoers, then you don’t actually believe in this
    nation. If your love of country is contingent on your preferred faction being in power, you’ve confused partisanship for patriotism. Taken seriously, all of this banana republic talk is un-American.
    They don't believe in THIS nation.

    They believe this nation is Satan-spawn from the loss of the Civil War and the imposition of rights AGAINST the White Cis-Male Landowner in the 14th Amendment in 1868.

    They believe THIS nation is dead. And they now will want to kill it and resurrect it in their eliminative image.

    In short, from "The Purge": "God bless our New Founding Fathers and America, a nation reborn."

    We ARE the evildoers to them -- and I'm more than tempted to show them just what evil can do if that's all they see us as!
    I don’t mean it’s a wrong or flawed argument or simply an argument I don’t like—though it is all those things. I mean it is literally an un-American argument because it fundamentally betrays the whole idea of this country. And I’d say this
    if the claims were made about any politician. Indeed, I did. When Barack Obama’s boosters claimed he would fix our “broken souls” (in Michelle Obama’s words), I spared no effort in denouncing them. When Joe Biden sermonized about how “unity”
    under his banner—was the answer to all our problems, I trotted out all my arguments against the “cult of unity,” which constantly threatens our constitutional system of separated powers and divided government.
    "Unity" is the last thing they want. Because, to be unified with us would be indicative that we are human, important, and have value -- and that's three things Proud Boy America does NOT believe in.

    The problem is, that level of disunity blows it all up, because it reduces us to basically hunting each other down and eliminating each other because we are in the way -- not unlike the style of the Manifest Destiny hunting down the Indians like they
    were meat for food.

    This is another reason I say to shoot or shut up -- we cannot co-exist. We will not co-exist, and it is rapidly getting to the point if there was enough room for both of us, there isn't much else "enough" left for the both of us, as the current
    economic situation is showing.
    Presidents are not redeemers, messiahs, incarnations of mystical aspirations, or righteous settlers of seething grievances. They’re not god-kings or the fathers of our American family. They’re politicians elected to do some specific things as the
    head of one branch of one level of government. They get that job for a limited and defined period of time, and afterward they’re simply citizens.
    And that's the problem: They no longer want a President.

    They want a God-King, sent from God to purge this land of the "others" so that only the White Men can enjoy it and the baby machines and farm equipment are under them!
    It’s a source of constant consternation and amazement for me that so many people either don’t understand this or simply pretend not to.
    I think they understand, at least as much as 90-95 IQ can. It has already been shown that the stupid tend to gravitate to Fox News, etc.
    I don’t know for sure which politicians and pundits yammering about our “corrupt regime” are truly ignorant and which are merely duplicitous demagogues chumming the waters with bloody nonsense. But I do know it’s dangerous, because whether
    they believe it or not, they want millions of people to believe it.
    And, frankly, I believe millions do. It is one of the reasons I believe we have lost to the coronavirus, already lost 5 or more million to the virus, and can't have that said because some people would cheer that level of death and destruction, while
    the rest would probably riot, knowing the number could be much, much higher.

    Our regime.

    Remember what Rush Limpballs started saying about America the day Clinton took office: "America Held Hostage".

    Since then, a Black man has held the office and now even worse...
    But let’s talk about our “regime,” a term these people use with Vizzini-like confidence and error.

    In 2004, a lot of angry Democrats loved the phrase “regime change starts at home.” The idea was that voting George W. Bush out of office would constitute “regime change”—a term popularized by both Bill Clinton and Bush with regard to our
    policy on Iraq.
    Remember, also, that many of us also viewed Dick Cheney and his Project For a New American Century (PNAC) as a probable cause for that America had a role in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
    The stupidity of this talking point—later picked up in the Obama years by conservatives—begins with the fact that elections are how our regime works. A regime, by definition, is a system of government, not an administration run by elected
    Democrats or Republicans. When serious people talk seriously about changing a regime, they’re talking about changing the system of government. Regime change in Iraq meant getting rid of a totalitarian, terroristic dictatorship, not simply replacing
    Saddam Hussein with a more pliable and cooperative tyrant.
    The problem is, as you probably well know, Saddam was our man before he was of no further use to us. And then remember this...
    America’s regime isn’t on any ballot. Symbolically, it is the ballot. More properly, it is the constitutional system that requires our leaders to be elected. But unlike in an actual banana republic or the Third World Marxist dictatorships Marco
    Rubio compares us to, electing a leader doesn’t change the regime. There are roughly 520,000 elected officials in this country. At the federal level there are 537 of them. The president is just one of them.
    Part of the problem is that the removal of much (most?) of the elected officials and even more of the voters is part of the point. The fact that baby/sammich machines/sex toys and farm equipment and the useless eaters and the... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
    .. are allowed to vote (and, in many cases, breathe life at all!!!) means that the ballot, at it's most fundamental level, is, in fact, similarly flawed!

    Remember: This time Trump wants to loyalty test his serfs in the government if he reattains power.
    Like every other elected official, the president is subordinate to the Constitution, which is another way of saying he is not the regime, he’s a servant of the regime. None of those elected officials, including the president, is your boss (unless
    you’re on their payroll or serve in the military). Indeed, the president literally has no formal power to order any of those 536 other federal officeholders to do anything. He cannot make Congress—or even his vice president—do something they do not
    want to do because they, too, derive their authority from the Constitution and the people.
    And that's the problem on a number of levels.

    Trump really does believe in The Apprentice, and believes the country should be run as if it were a corporation. Hence, he is The Boss, as it were.

    The second problem is the Republican mantra of the Constitution (especially 13th Amendment onward) as a "goddamned piece of paper", so they don't even believe in that subordinance, and have now manipulated that they probably will have the final
    Constitutional word on law for the next 20, if not more, years.

    They believe in neither the Constitution nor the people, especially those they don't even consider human (see above).
    Even the people in the executive branch who do have to follow the president’s orders may not follow orders that are unlawful or unconstitutional. Because again, the ultimate political authority in our system is not vested in a person, but in a
    piece of parchment.
    A "goddamned piece of paper" most of them don't believe in in the first place -- especially, as I just said, Amendment 13 and forward.

    And the other problem with that is the concept of too many people are able to ENFORCE "I AM THE LAW!" and, therefore, even if the order is unlawful or unconstitutional, a lot of good that does you if you get locked up, lose your job and perhaps your
    family for disobeying it.
    That’s our regime, and I love it regardless of who the president is.
    They don't. And it's a lot more than just FJB. It's the fact of the people who are allowed to exist because "that goddamned piece of paper" hasn't gotten around yet to allow for their extermination. Look for Trump to change that, starting with the low-
    hanging fruit, if he retakes power.
    Which brings us to the search at Mar-a-Lago. Like all the people bleating about the “Biden regime,” I have no idea if searching the former president’s home was a wise decision. But from every account I’ve read, it was a lawful decision.
    Dictators do not typically seek warrants from judges when they send police to search the homes of their political opponents. Heck, if the reporting is to be believed, the White House didn’t even know what had happened until after the deed was done.
    What it IS, though, is that the one thing you can say the Right tells the truth about it is simple: We've crossed the Rubicon, and, especially with the rhetoric being put forward, going back may well be nigh impossible. I related that I don't think
    there's an option left which does not lead us down a nasty road. He either reascends as effective God-King, or has done so much, he's put to death and the entire system loses enough face and faith, it probably goes with him.
    Again, none of this means that the DOJ or the FBI didn’t make a terrible decision or otherwise screw up. We’ve seen plenty of evidence in recent years that they’re perfectly capable of both. But if J. Edgar Hoover’s stewardship of the FBI
    didn’t indict the legitimacy of the regime, I don’t see how this could, because government screws up all the time. That’s one of the reasons we have so many elections. James Madison’s whole vision was to use elections, at every level of
    government, as a regular and predictable cleansing tide to sweep away stagnant waters. In fact, if the DOJ actually had good reason to search Trump’s home, meeting all of the legal requirements of probable cause etc., we would have moved closer to a
    banana republic if they turned a blind eye. As Kevin Williamson writes:
    One major reason: The 30-40% of this country literally waiting with baited breath for one man to give one order: Open fire.

    If the DoJ or FBI screws this up, you can bet that someone named Trump will be calling for the storming of every FBI office in the nation.

    And another thing: These people, especially the White Men, want this to be THE LAST CLEANSING by the ballot box, with the next being the cartridge box.

    When Hoover screwed up, he didn't have millions of White Men wanting to kill others and posting their gun porn on the Internet and claiming they wanted to do shit -- while the rest of us are still waiting and want to take their "Proud Boy" tattoos and
    photoshop "Pussy" where they are.
    If we really believe, as we say we believe, that this is a republic, that nobody is above the law, that the presidency is just a temporary executive-branch office rather than a quasi-royal entitlement, then there is nothing all that remarkable about
    the FBI serving a warrant on a house in Florida. I myself do not find it especially difficult to believe that there exists reasonable cause for such a warrant. And if the feds have got it wrong, that wouldn’t be the first time. Those so-called
    conservatives who are publicly fantasizing about an FBI purge under the next Republican administration are engaged in a particularly stupid form of irresponsibility.
    And you just basically made the false premise. (Not that I slam you for doing so -- these people believe Trump was anointed by God to kill the useless, the LGBTQ's, and anyone else "in the way".)

    In short, if he succeeds, a second Manifest Destiny to retake the country (with lethal force in places like California, Washington, Oregon, Chicago, Baltimore especially -- and more!) from sea to shining sea.
    By all means, vote Biden out of office. I don’t think he’s up to the job and I think most of his policies have been bad. Bring on the cleansing tide.
    I don't think you can afford the alternative unless you want the "others" dead.

    As for me, I felt it's either vote Trump out (regardless of the opponent), take the five years in prison for threatening his life in a second term, or go violent and die as a result, Schiffer-style.

    I never felt Biden would last six months in the office of President -- but one examination of the current legislative impossibility a Presidential resignation would create (in short, no Vice President would be seated unless the Dems win the Senate
    outright) indicates why we haven't had President Kamala Harris for the last 12 months.

    (And bring on the Rightie tears at THAT result!)
    But what I can’t get my head around is the idea that the solution to our allegedly bananifying regime is to put that browning, mealy, giant banana back into power.
    Two words, kid: Open fire. All he has to do is give the order, and your question will be answered in inglorious detail.
    Let’s return—just one more time—to that thought experiment. What I left out is that the ousted ruler seeking to return to power whose home was searched had tried to steal the last election by spreading lies about its legitimacy and treating the
    Constitution like a dead letter. He declared victory despite being assured he lost by his own attorney general and campaign manager. He wanted the DOJ to simply declare the election corrupt so he could do the rest. He toyed with the idea of using the
    military to seize voting machines as some sort of pretextual theater. He railed at his Supreme Court appointees for their lack of personal loyalty when they failed to go along with his scheme. He wanted to appoint a deluded and pliable flunky as the head
    of the DOJ because he was willing to run wild with propaganda about the election being stolen. He invited a mob to the capitol to scare Congress into helping him steal the election and did nothing for hours when the rabble turned violent and even erected
    a gallows to hang his own vice president. He and his junta now talk about these criminals as if they are political prisoners unjustly persecuted by a corrupt regime.
    One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
    If you’re worried about America looking like a banana republic, please don’t tell me that the first president in American history to defecate on the peaceful transfer of power is the antidote to the rot of Third World corruption of our regime. He
    is the rot.
    Not quite. I think their antidote is the blood of 100 million godless, useless, unAmerican types.

    Mike

    Cliffs?

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 12 23:25:28 2022
    Cliffs is my first response to xyzzy, answering his final question.

    Mike

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to Ken Olson on Sat Aug 13 01:02:54 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 12:18:29 AM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:

    There are few here that are old enough to remember true American conservatism.

    Which is why the present Republican Party would view them as traitors.

    Mike (Seriously...)

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  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 13 03:18:24 2022
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to Ken Olson on Sat Aug 13 05:14:45 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 4:57:19 AM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:

    I agree. Everything has slid towards centralization of power and away
    from the people.

    Problem is: That's the same idea the GQP has -- that the people should have the right to kill, as they did when they lynched the Blacks in the name of States Rights, etc.

    Mike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to Michael Falkner on Sat Aug 13 07:57:14 2022
    On 8/13/2022 4:02 AM, Michael Falkner wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 12:18:29 AM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:

    There are few here that are old enough to remember true American
    conservatism.

    Which is why the present Republican Party would view them as traitors.

    Mike (Seriously...)

    I agree. Everything has slid towards centralization of power and away
    from the people.

    --
    ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

    Слава Україні та НАТО

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to Michael Falkner on Sat Aug 13 09:42:21 2022
    On 8/13/2022 8:14 AM, Michael Falkner wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 4:57:19 AM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:

    I agree. Everything has slid towards centralization of power and away
    from the people.

    Problem is: That's the same idea the GQP has -- that the people should have the right to kill, as they did when they lynched the Blacks in the name of States Rights, etc.

    Mike

    People have the right to kill if that is a reasonable response to the
    force they're fighting against. Lynchings were (are) murder.

    --
    ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

    Слава Україні та НАТО

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to Ken Olson on Sat Aug 13 19:45:37 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 6:42:26 AM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:

    People have the right to kill if that is a reasonable response to the
    force they're fighting against. Lynchings were (are) murder.

    If the state doesn't want the targets dead by refusing to enforce it.

    This is one of the traps of the presumption of innocence.

    Mike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to JGibson on Sun Aug 14 06:28:53 2022
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of
    cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are
    adding up for our grandchildren. If it was 87,000 cops to help fight
    the crime wave blue cities are self-inflicting, probably that wouldn't
    be so unpopular. But when it is an expansion to take us to a 3X per-
    capita level of tax enforcers compared to Europe, one which is certain
    to bring the productivity of the IRS down to third-world levels, it is
    insane and one hopes unpopular. The contention that those workers will
    only pursue the rich is a blatant lie, one that anyone should be particularly embarrassed about parroting.

    I despair of either of the parties, but certainly would prefer the
    Republicans having the chance to change the direction of things. A huge majority thinks we're on the wrong track, and they ain't wrong.

    --
    Experience is what allows you to recognize a mistake the second time you
    make it. -- unknown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Sun Aug 14 13:09:41 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight. >>
    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of
    cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are
    adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my
    FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public sector) and social security.




    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Sun Aug 14 13:46:57 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight. >>
    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government.

    Btw I think what you are referring to as “the authoritarianism of our
    current thinly-divided government” is actually Democrats finally learning
    how to exercise political power in a way that Republicans have been doing
    for years. The only real difference is just you like the enacted policies
    in one case and you don’t in the other.

    I would submit that calling a lame-duck legislative session to strip the winners of power after you lose an election (as Republicans did In
    Wisconsin and North Carolina) is more authoritarian than passing major legislation on a 51-50 Senate vote, especially when the president pushing
    that agenda won his election by more than seven million votes. I’d also
    argue that a system where the party or candidate that is more popular has
    to win by seven million votes and nearly 5 percentage points of the vote to actually narrowly win is also authoritarian minority rule. Some of that
    latter part is endemic to our system but some is by deliberate design ,
    like gerrymandering.

    Finally I would argue that a party nominating candidates for state offices
    who assert the right to override their voters in awarding electoral votes
    is straight-up authoritarian if not borderline fascist. Speaking of which,
    a party that stands behind an ex-president who not only attempted a coup on live TV but also demanded that American generals show the same loyalty to
    him that (he incorrectly thought) German generals did to Hitler is more
    than just borderline fascist.


    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Sun Aug 14 09:54:18 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 11:28:57 PM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are
    adding up for our grandchildren. If it was 87,000 cops to help fight
    the crime wave blue cities are self-inflicting, probably that wouldn't
    be so unpopular. But when it is an expansion to take us to a 3X per-
    capita level of tax enforcers compared to Europe, one which is certain
    to bring the productivity of the IRS down to third-world levels, it is
    insane and one hopes unpopular. The contention that those workers will
    only pursue the rich is a blatant lie, one that anyone should be particularly embarrassed about parroting.

    I despair of either of the parties, but certainly would prefer the Republicans having the chance to change the direction of things. A huge majority thinks we're on the wrong track, and they ain't wrong.

    Then you do realize you're gonna have to shoot your way out, do you not?

    Mike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Mon Aug 15 08:27:21 2022
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight. >>>
    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government.

    Btw I think what you are referring to as “the authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government” is actually Democrats finally learning how to exercise political power in a way that Republicans have been doing
    for years. The only real difference is just you like the enacted policies
    in one case and you don’t in the other.

    You want more money and power flowing to the federal government, I want less. More guns extorting money from me means government sticking their noses in
    my business.


    I would submit that calling a lame-duck legislative session to strip the winners of power after you lose an election (as Republicans did In
    Wisconsin and North Carolina) is more authoritarian than passing major legislation on a 51-50 Senate vote, especially when the president pushing that agenda won his election by more than seven million votes.

    And how else are you going to make temporary a government program? Hmm?


    I’d also
    argue that a system where the party or candidate that is more popular has
    to win by seven million votes and nearly 5 percentage points of the vote to actually narrowly win is also authoritarian minority rule. Some of that latter part is endemic to our system but some is by deliberate design ,
    like gerrymandering.

    It is our system, and that system has made us the most stable dynamic country in history. Good on us.


    Finally I would argue that a party nominating candidates for state offices who assert the right to override their voters in awarding electoral votes
    is straight-up authoritarian if not borderline fascist.

    Can't disagree with that.


    Speaking of which,
    a party that stands behind an ex-president who not only attempted a coup on live TV but also demanded that American generals show the same loyalty to
    him that (he incorrectly thought) German generals did to Hitler is more
    than just borderline fascist.

    Attempted a coup? Don't make me laugh. Fantasy coups are not a coup. Interesting that the most armed population in history attempted an
    unarmed coup... It is no wonder that the current administration is not
    taken seriously, trying to put over ridiculous tripe like that.


    --
    It's tough being a conservative white male. You get up in the morning
    knowing there are blacks to oppress, women to demean, an entire
    ecological environment to pollute, unions to squash, children to
    endanger, identity groups to offend, tax loopholes to exploit, and
    countless acts of hatred to commit. With all that work to be done at
    least your day goes quickly. -- Bobber Fleck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Mon Aug 15 08:20:37 2022
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight. >>>
    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add
    government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of
    cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are
    adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police
    state to me.

    A flat tax would prevent tax cheating and reduce enforcement costs to the minimum. Of course politicians really, really, don't want it because it reduces their graft opportunities dramatically.

    --
    Give me a young man in whom there is something of the old,
    and an old man with something of the young. -- Cicero

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Mon Aug 15 12:56:15 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight. >>>>
    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add >>> government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of
    cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are
    adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my >> FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have >> a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public >> sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police
    state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all western counties why choose Switzerland?

    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer
    totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago.
    Surely you’ve seen this:

    https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/one-photo-irs-cafeteria-overstuffed-200607832.html


    A flat tax would prevent tax cheating and reduce enforcement costs to the minimum. Of course politicians really, really, don't want it because it reduces
    their graft opportunities dramatically.


    A flat tax would do no such thing since most cheating is in the area of defining and hiding income. No matter how flat taxes are that will
    continue. Unless for example your flat tax is based on business gross not
    net?

    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Mon Aug 15 13:00:40 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight. >>>>
    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but
    I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like
    him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government.

    Btw I think what you are referring to as “the authoritarianism of our
    current thinly-divided government” is actually Democrats finally learning >> how to exercise political power in a way that Republicans have been doing
    for years. The only real difference is just you like the enacted policies
    in one case and you don’t in the other.

    You want more money and power flowing to the federal government, I want less. More guns extorting money from me means government sticking their noses in
    my business.


    I would submit that calling a lame-duck legislative session to strip the
    winners of power after you lose an election (as Republicans did In
    Wisconsin and North Carolina) is more authoritarian than passing major
    legislation on a 51-50 Senate vote, especially when the president pushing
    that agenda won his election by more than seven million votes.

    And how else are you going to make temporary a government program? Hmm?

    I have no idea how that relates to my point above.



    I’d also
    argue that a system where the party or candidate that is more popular has
    to win by seven million votes and nearly 5 percentage points of the vote to >> actually narrowly win is also authoritarian minority rule. Some of that
    latter part is endemic to our system but some is by deliberate design ,
    like gerrymandering.

    It is our system, and that system has made us the most stable dynamic country in history. Good on us.

    It has worked remarkably well in general but there have been multiple times
    it has failed to deliver a democratic result, not all of them recently. For example 1876 and the results of that failure had the real effect of
    imposing Jim Crow for generations.



    Finally I would argue that a party nominating candidates for state offices >> who assert the right to override their voters in awarding electoral votes
    is straight-up authoritarian if not borderline fascist.

    Can't disagree with that.


    Speaking of which,
    a party that stands behind an ex-president who not only attempted a coup on >> live TV but also demanded that American generals show the same loyalty to
    him that (he incorrectly thought) German generals did to Hitler is more
    than just borderline fascist.

    Attempted a coup? Don't make me laugh. Fantasy coups are not a coup.

    Keep telling yourself that. “Fantasy coup” is just another way of saying “attempted coup”. Trump’s lack of success does not negate the attempt.

    And he still demanded Hitler-esque (his framing not mine) loyalty from
    American generals, which affected his Republican support not one iota.

    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Tue Aug 16 09:41:48 2022
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add >>>> government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of
    cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are
    adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my >>> FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have >>> a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public >>> sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police
    state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago.

    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done
    by the proper use of the private sector.


    Surely you’ve seen this:

    https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/one-photo-irs-cafeteria-overstuffed-200607832.html


    So they've badly misused money they've been given so we should give them
    more? That's the K-12 public sector model, and it results in a progressively worse product.


    A flat tax would prevent tax cheating and reduce enforcement costs to the
    minimum. Of course politicians really, really, don't want it because it reduces
    their graft opportunities dramatically.


    A flat tax would do no such thing since most cheating is in the area of defining and hiding income. No matter how flat taxes are that will
    continue. Unless for example your flat tax is based on business gross not net?

    Of course there is always some wiggle room, but eliminating exclusions and deductions
    writ large there is much less scope.



    --
    Being against torture ought to be sort of a bipartisan thing.
    O-- Karl Lehenbauer

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Tue Aug 16 09:52:09 2022
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con
    Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due
    to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political
    parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government.

    Btw I think what you are referring to as “the authoritarianism of our
    current thinly-divided government” is actually Democrats finally learning >>> how to exercise political power in a way that Republicans have been doing >>> for years. The only real difference is just you like the enacted policies >>> in one case and you don’t in the other.

    You want more money and power flowing to the federal government, I want less.
    More guns extorting money from me means government sticking their noses in >> my business.


    I would submit that calling a lame-duck legislative session to strip the >>> winners of power after you lose an election (as Republicans did In
    Wisconsin and North Carolina) is more authoritarian than passing major
    legislation on a 51-50 Senate vote, especially when the president pushing >>> that agenda won his election by more than seven million votes.

    And how else are you going to make temporary a government program? Hmm?

    I have no idea how that relates to my point above.

    Spoken like a man who wants the ratchet of federal government growth
    to be unopposed. When the federal government controlled 4% of GDP, we had
    no lobbyist problem -- it wasn't worth the effort. Now that it influences
    over 40%, everyone has to have a lobbyist to protect themself.




    I’d also
    argue that a system where the party or candidate that is more popular has >>> to win by seven million votes and nearly 5 percentage points of the vote to >>> actually narrowly win is also authoritarian minority rule. Some of that >>> latter part is endemic to our system but some is by deliberate design ,
    like gerrymandering.

    It is our system, and that system has made us the most stable dynamic country
    in history. Good on us.

    It has worked remarkably well in general but there have been multiple times it has failed to deliver a democratic result, not all of them recently.

    That might be because we are a republic.

    For example 1876 and the results of that failure had the real effect
    of imposing Jim Crow for generations.

    Arguable that one man performed that -- it was a team effort. The
    Democrats made sure that victory didn't get deposed for another 90
    years.




    Finally I would argue that a party nominating candidates for state offices >>> who assert the right to override their voters in awarding electoral votes >>> is straight-up authoritarian if not borderline fascist.

    Can't disagree with that.


    Speaking of which,
    a party that stands behind an ex-president who not only attempted a coup on >>> live TV but also demanded that American generals show the same loyalty to >>> him that (he incorrectly thought) German generals did to Hitler is more
    than just borderline fascist.

    Attempted a coup? Don't make me laugh. Fantasy coups are not a coup.

    Keep telling yourself that. “Fantasy coup” is just another way of saying “attempted coup”. Trump’s lack of success does not negate the attempt.

    When an infant punches a grown man and fails, it doesn't make it a boxing match. It makes it a fantasy.

    And he still demanded Hitler-esque (his framing not mine) loyalty from American generals, which affected his Republican support not one iota.

    Have you ever heard me claim Trump isn't a narcissistic nincompoop? You have not. My only claim is that he is better than Biden and that he achieved some decent results, dumb luck that it might have been. The worst non-interventionist
    President is far better than any interventionist one. Trump would not have caused
    oil to spike in price like Biden did, and wouldn't have spent the extra 2 trillion
    dollars. That would -- in my judgement of course -- greatly reduced the impact of
    COVID on the economy. (A lot if it was baked in of course by the idiotic lockdown.)


    --
    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Dick Feynman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Tue Aug 16 13:12:16 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add >>>>> government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of >>>>> cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are >>>>> adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my >>>> FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have >>>> a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public
    sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police
    state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all
    western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed
    technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer
    totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago.

    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done
    by the proper use of the private sector.

    Having seen first hand the way private IT contractors interact with the government, both as an employee of one and as the husband of a civil
    servant who deals with IT contractors, absolutely not. One thing thing more dysfunctional then federal bureaucracy is federal IT contracting. And it’s not all the fault of the Feds and how they’re organized. Private sector IT contracting ain’t so well done either. Not enough time to get into it but over promising and under bidding to win business you can’t possibly
    complete on the promised terms is endemic.

    Of course there is always some wiggle room, but eliminating exclusions and deductions
    writ large there is much less scope.

    Which exclusions and deductions? Should we start with, for example, depreciation?


    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Tue Aug 16 10:34:53 2022
    On 8/16/2022 5:52 AM, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government.

    Btw I think what you are referring to as “the authoritarianism of our >>>> current thinly-divided government” is actually Democrats finally learning
    how to exercise political power in a way that Republicans have been doing >>>> for years. The only real difference is just you like the enacted policies >>>> in one case and you don’t in the other.

    You want more money and power flowing to the federal government, I want less.
    More guns extorting money from me means government sticking their noses in >>> my business.


    I would submit that calling a lame-duck legislative session to strip the >>>> winners of power after you lose an election (as Republicans did In
    Wisconsin and North Carolina) is more authoritarian than passing major >>>> legislation on a 51-50 Senate vote, especially when the president pushing >>>> that agenda won his election by more than seven million votes.

    And how else are you going to make temporary a government program? Hmm?

    I have no idea how that relates to my point above.

    Spoken like a man who wants the ratchet of federal government growth
    to be unopposed. When the federal government controlled 4% of GDP, we had
    no lobbyist problem -- it wasn't worth the effort. Now that it influences over 40%, everyone has to have a lobbyist to protect themself.




    I’d also
    argue that a system where the party or candidate that is more popular has >>>> to win by seven million votes and nearly 5 percentage points of the vote to
    actually narrowly win is also authoritarian minority rule. Some of that >>>> latter part is endemic to our system but some is by deliberate design , >>>> like gerrymandering.

    It is our system, and that system has made us the most stable dynamic country
    in history. Good on us.

    It has worked remarkably well in general but there have been multiple times >> it has failed to deliver a democratic result, not all of them recently.

    That might be because we are a republic.

    For example 1876 and the results of that failure had the real effect
    of imposing Jim Crow for generations.

    Arguable that one man performed that -- it was a team effort. The
    Democrats made sure that victory didn't get deposed for another 90
    years.




    Finally I would argue that a party nominating candidates for state offices >>>> who assert the right to override their voters in awarding electoral votes >>>> is straight-up authoritarian if not borderline fascist.

    Can't disagree with that.


    Speaking of which,
    a party that stands behind an ex-president who not only attempted a coup on
    live TV but also demanded that American generals show the same loyalty to >>>> him that (he incorrectly thought) German generals did to Hitler is more >>>> than just borderline fascist.

    Attempted a coup? Don't make me laugh. Fantasy coups are not a coup.

    Keep telling yourself that. “Fantasy coup” is just another way of saying >> “attempted coup”. Trump’s lack of success does not negate the attempt.

    When an infant punches a grown man and fails, it doesn't make it a boxing match. It makes it a fantasy.

    And he still demanded Hitler-esque (his framing not mine) loyalty from
    American generals, which affected his Republican support not one iota.

    Have you ever heard me claim Trump isn't a narcissistic nincompoop? You have not. My only claim is that he is better than Biden and that he achieved some decent results, dumb luck that it might have been. The worst non-interventionist
    President is far better than any interventionist one. Trump would not have caused
    oil to spike in price like Biden did, and wouldn't have spent the extra 2 trillion
    dollars. That would -- in my judgement of course -- greatly reduced the impact of
    COVID on the economy. (A lot if it was baked in of course by the idiotic lockdown.)



    +1

    --
    ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

    Слава Україні та НАТО

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Tue Aug 16 10:37:25 2022
    On 8/16/2022 9:12 AM, xyzzy wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add >>>>>> government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of >>>>>> cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are >>>>>> adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my
    FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public
    sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police >>>> state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all >>> western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed >>> technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer
    totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago.

    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done
    by the proper use of the private sector.

    Having seen first hand the way private IT contractors interact with the government, both as an employee of one and as the husband of a civil
    servant who deals with IT contractors, absolutely not. One thing thing more dysfunctional then federal bureaucracy is federal IT contracting. And it’s not all the fault of the Feds and how they’re organized. Private sector IT contracting ain’t so well done either. Not enough time to get into it but over promising and under bidding to win business you can’t possibly complete on the promised terms is endemic.

    Of course there is always some wiggle room, but eliminating exclusions and deductions
    writ large there is much less scope.

    Which exclusions and deductions? Should we start with, for example, depreciation?



    We need the FairTax. fairtax.org

    --
    ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

    Слава Україні та НАТО

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Wed Aug 17 12:45:19 2022
    On 2022-08-16, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add >>>>>> government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of >>>>>> cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are >>>>>> adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my
    FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public
    sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police >>>> state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all >>> western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed >>> technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer
    totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago.

    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done
    by the proper use of the private sector.

    Having seen first hand the way private IT contractors interact with the government, both as an employee of one and as the husband of a civil
    servant who deals with IT contractors, absolutely not. One thing thing more dysfunctional then federal bureaucracy is federal IT contracting.

    What's the common factor, hmm?

    And it’s
    not all the fault of the Feds and how they’re organized. Private sector IT contracting ain’t so well done either.

    I can't disagree with that as a general rule, having watched many a CRM implementation go down in flames. But those cases mostly happen when the organization overseeing the contract is clueless.

    Not enough time to get into it but
    over promising and under bidding to win business you can’t possibly complete on the promised terms is endemic.

    This is enabled by lettors who don't know their ass from a hole in the
    ground. I ran a company and worked for a company who wouldn't do that. We
    often lost out on bids, but when we were selected we delivered.


    Of course there is always some wiggle room, but eliminating exclusions and deductions
    writ large there is much less scope.

    Which exclusions and deductions? Should we start with, for example, depreciation?

    You have to have some concept of depreciation if you are to incent a
    longterm investment -- you can't expense the Hoover Dam. The key is to
    have one structure and apply it to all; it is the exceptions and
    carveouts which are the problem.

    Again, we're talking pie in the sky. It ain't going to happen.

    --
    Experience is what allows you to recognize a mistake the second
    time you make it. -- unknown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Wed Aug 17 15:36:50 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-16, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add
    government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of >>>>>>> cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are >>>>>>> adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my
    FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public
    sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police >>>>> state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all >>>> western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed >>>> technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer >>>> totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago. >>>
    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done >>> by the proper use of the private sector.

    Having seen first hand the way private IT contractors interact with the
    government, both as an employee of one and as the husband of a civil
    servant who deals with IT contractors, absolutely not. One thing thing more >> dysfunctional then federal bureaucracy is federal IT contracting.

    What's the common factor, hmm?

    And it’s
    not all the fault of the Feds and how they’re organized. Private sector IT >> contracting ain’t so well done either.

    I can't disagree with that as a general rule, having watched many a CRM implementation go down in flames. But those cases mostly happen when the organization overseeing the contract is clueless.

    The real problem with the government in this case is they are bound by law
    to take the lowest qualified bidder. Most people wouldn’t have it any other way because otherwise it’s open to favoritism. But that has unexpected side effects, for example once you finally get the contractor who maintains a
    system trained and working smoothly they get ejected by a new low bidder
    who you have to start over with (and they probably unknowingly underbid
    because they don’t know the challenges the incumbent has learned after working with the system for a few years), lather rinse repeat.

    Just one example.




    Of course there is always some wiggle room, but eliminating exclusions and deductions
    writ large there is much less scope.

    Which exclusions and deductions? Should we start with, for example,
    depreciation?

    You have to have some concept of depreciation if you are to incent a
    longterm investment -- you can't expense the Hoover Dam. The key is to
    have one structure and apply it to all; it is the exceptions and
    carveouts which are the problem.

    Again, we're talking pie in the sky. It ain't going to happen.




    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From xyzzy@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Wed Aug 17 15:31:47 2022
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-16, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
    He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here >>>>>>>> that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add
    government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of >>>>>>> cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are >>>>>>> adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my
    FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public
    sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita
    agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police >>>>> state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all >>>> western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed >>>> technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer >>>> totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago. >>>
    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done >>> by the proper use of the private sector.

    Having seen first hand the way private IT contractors interact with the
    government, both as an employee of one and as the husband of a civil
    servant who deals with IT contractors, absolutely not. One thing thing more >> dysfunctional then federal bureaucracy is federal IT contracting.

    What's the common factor, hmm?

    And it’s
    not all the fault of the Feds and how they’re organized. Private sector IT >> contracting ain’t so well done either.

    I can't disagree with that as a general rule, having watched many a CRM implementation go down in flames. But those cases mostly happen when the organization overseeing the contract is clueless.

    Not enough time to get into it but
    over promising and under bidding to win business you can’t possibly
    complete on the promised terms is endemic.

    This is enabled by lettors who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. I ran a company and worked for a company who wouldn't do that. We often lost out on bids, but when we were selected we delivered.


    Of course there is always some wiggle room, but eliminating exclusions and deductions
    writ large there is much less scope.

    Which exclusions and deductions? Should we start with, for example,
    depreciation?

    You have to have some concept of depreciation if you are to incent a
    longterm investment -- you can't expense the Hoover Dam. The key is to
    have one structure and apply it to all; it is the exceptions and
    carveouts which are the problem.

    I agree that depreciation is worth keeping. My point is that it’s easier
    to say “flat tax is the solution” than to get into the nitty gritty of implementing it and it could never be truly flat because one man’s loophole or carve out is another man’s essential provision and not just because the latter financially benefits. Depreciation is just the tip of the iceberg
    but it’s illustrative on why it’s never that simple in real life when you get down to brass tacks.

    Again, we're talking pie in the sky. It ain't going to happen.


    On this we agree.


    --
    “I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian, liberal personality.” — Altie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to xyzzy on Thu Aug 18 06:56:41 2022
    On 2022-08-17, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-16, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-15, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote:
    On 2022-08-14, xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:
    Con Reeder, unhyphenated American <constance@duxmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2022-08-12, JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 9:02:59 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote: >>>>>>>>>> He hasn't been quoted much lately on rsfc, which seems like an oversight.

    Sign that the newsgroup is dwindling. What conservatives are even here
    that might have brought up a Goldberg article before? Enright, Con >>>>>>>>> Reeder, and Wonko?


    Certainly me. I am a big Jonah fan. His current focus -- probably due >>>>>>>> to his change of networks from Fox to CNN -- is not my cup of tea, but >>>>>>>> I still read the G-File and agree with a lot of what he says. But like >>>>>>>> him, I mostly despair of the hot mess which is both of our political >>>>>>>> parties. The biggest problem we have is the outrageous
    authoritarianism of our current thinly-divided government. Democrats add
    government programs any time they can, counting on the difficulty of >>>>>>>> cutting them to ensure the persistance of the bloat.

    Now we are going to add 87,000 government pensions to the bill we are >>>>>>>> adding up for our grandchildren.

    I know you’re used to Illinois state pensions which are crazy generous. Fed
    pensions exist but they aren’t nearly as generous. It’s about 1/3 of what
    most people would consider a full pension, especially in Illinois where my
    FIL is a retired teacher. The Fed policy since 1983 has been yeah you have
    a pension but you also need a 401k (or whatever it’s called in the public
    sector) and social security.

    We still don't need 87,000 more. And why do we need a 5X per-capita >>>>>> agent population compared to Switzerland? Sounds like a nascent police >>>>>> state to me.

    Using Switzerland as a comparison point sounds like a cherry pick. Of all >>>>> western counties why choose Switzerland?

    I cited 3X for the average European country in another post.


    Also not all of that money is for auditors. It’s also for long delayed >>>>> technology updates which I’m familiar with because sadly my employer >>>>> totally blew the last attempt to modernize their tech over 10 years ago. >>>>
    That doesn't require permanent employees. Certainly something better done >>>> by the proper use of the private sector.

    Having seen first hand the way private IT contractors interact with the
    government, both as an employee of one and as the husband of a civil
    servant who deals with IT contractors, absolutely not. One thing thing more >>> dysfunctional then federal bureaucracy is federal IT contracting.

    What's the common factor, hmm?

    And it’s
    not all the fault of the Feds and how they’re organized. Private sector IT
    contracting ain’t so well done either.

    I can't disagree with that as a general rule, having watched many a CRM
    implementation go down in flames. But those cases mostly happen when the
    organization overseeing the contract is clueless.

    The real problem with the government in this case is they are bound by law
    to take the lowest qualified bidder.

    The word here is "qualified". If your bid doesn't address the RFP, then you aren't qualified. Just saying "we'll do that, we'll find the people/way" doesn't
    mean you are qualified, and there are ways to require that.

    Most people wouldn’t have it any other
    way because otherwise it’s open to favoritism. But that has unexpected side effects, for example once you finally get the contractor who maintains a system trained and working smoothly they get ejected by a new low bidder
    who you have to start over with (and they probably unknowingly underbid because they don’t know the challenges the incumbent has learned after working with the system for a few years), lather rinse repeat.

    Just one example.

    Again, it is specifying the challenges which makes you qualified and unqualifies the otherwise-low bidder. A good lettor can do this by requiring there be some track record in key areas.

    But most lettors don't have enough expertise to avoid being baffled by
    the bullshit. My last bid (which I lost, thank goodness) was a case of
    this. The opposition had a smooth marketing presentation which wowed the customer, who completely disregarded the fact that 1) they had never
    done a single system successfully, 2) had no expertise in the CRM
    area, and 3) didn't have the personnel to indicate they could achieve
    1 and 2 in the very tight timeframe needed. We made that case, but
    they were dazzled by the slick and sleezy. The promise was switchover
    in 18 months -- after 5 years they faded away with no implementation
    complete. The organization is floundering, having implemented an in-house system with off-the-shelf accounting software. Efficiency is terrible, profitability elusive.

    --
    Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be
    banned fromj thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles.
    -- Dostoevsky

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