"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.
Oh, wait...my mistake...those are the principles and procedures for establishing the men's basketball tournament bracket. Nobody seems to
mind that they don't choose the "most deserving" or "best when you
look at their entire body of work" at-large teams. After all, they
don't play the tournament over the entire season - just at the end.
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-5, Corky wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 12:05:42 PM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 10:19:19 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current
On 2023-12-04, The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.More precisely:
For purposes of any four-team playoff, the process will
inevitably need to select the four best teams from among
several with legitimate claims to participate.
Note the acknowledgement that there might be teams left out which
have legitimate claims to participate. As with FSU.
Oh, wait...my mistake...those are the principles and procedures forAnd they have a delineated list of criteria they use to make this
establishing the men's basketball tournament bracket. Nobody seems to >> > > > mind that they don't choose the "most deserving" or "best when you
look at their entire body of work" at-large teams. After all, they
don't play the tournament over the entire season - just at the end.
choice of who to sadly leave out. Looks to me like they did their
job just as they stated they would do from the get-go.
--
"The formula for achieving a successful relationship is simple: you
should treat all disasters as if they were trivialities but never
treat a triviality as if it were a disaster." -- Quentin Crisp
are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players to
injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college
football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not an
excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes
injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not penalized.
On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP
commences, FSU would have their QB2 back as a starter. If they
are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in
their season ending rivalry game with Florida, why didn't they
downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against
Auburn which they won on fluke play and ridiculously poor defense
by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to
New Mexico State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for
the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the
CFP committee should resign and none of them should be allowed on
the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.
top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team
that lost to Kentucky.
With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the
time the playoffs start.
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 5:40:03 PM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
On 2023-12-05, JGibson <james.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-5, Corky wrote:If the regular backup had lit it up when he played his game, that
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 12:05:42 PM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 10:19:19 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current
On 2023-12-04, The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.More precisely:
For purposes of any four-team playoff, the process will
inevitably need to select the four best teams from among
several with legitimate claims to participate.
Note the acknowledgement that there might be teams left out which
have legitimate claims to participate. As with FSU.
Oh, wait...my mistake...those are the principles and procedures for >> >> > > > establishing the men's basketball tournament bracket. Nobody seems tochoice of who to sadly leave out. Looks to me like they did their
mind that they don't choose the "most deserving" or "best when you >> >> > > > look at their entire body of work" at-large teams. After all, they >> >> > > > don't play the tournament over the entire season - just at the end. >> >> > > And they have a delineated list of criteria they use to make this
job just as they stated they would do from the get-go.
--
"The formula for achieving a successful relationship is simple: you >> >> > > should treat all disasters as if they were trivialities but never
treat a triviality as if it were a disaster." -- Quentin Crisp
are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players to
injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college
football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not an
excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes
injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not penalized.
On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP
commences, FSU would have their QB2 back as a starter. If they
are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in
their season ending rivalry game with Florida, why didn't they
downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against
Auburn which they won on fluke play and ridiculously poor defense
by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to
New Mexico State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for
the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the
CFP committee should resign and none of them should be allowed on
the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.
top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team
that lost to Kentucky.
With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the
time the playoffs start.
might be an argument. But he was 12-25, 5.4 Y/A, 0 TD.
Well, then the committee should have dropped Florida State's ranking
then. Instead they moved them up from #5 to #4 with Ohio State's loss.
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 4:28:56?PM UTC-5, Corky wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 12:05:42?PM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 10:19:19?AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
On 2023-12-04, The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals.
That shouldn't be the criteria for selecting the teams. FSU earned the right to compete. They were one of the three most
accomplished teams in the country along with Michigan and Washington.
They did more than Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
They went undefeated and won a Power 5 championship. None of the other three can say that.
They were barely able to score on a team that lost to Kentucky.
Alabama needed a miracle to beat a team that got rolled by New Mexico State. If you are going to downgrade FSU for
barely beating Louisville, shouldn't you do the same for Alabama for barely beating Auburn?
On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 9:22:45?AM UTC-5, j...@mich.com wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 13:43:58 -0800 (PST), JE Corbett <jecor...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 4:28:56?PM UTC-5, Corky wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 12:05:42?PM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 10:19:19?AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
On 2023-12-04, The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
Losing the quarterback is not just losing "a" player, it's losing the most important player by far. FSU backup QBs are far from plug and playUsing player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals.
and FSU is nowhere as good now as they were.
That shouldn't be the criteria for selecting the teams. FSU earned the right to compete. They were one of the three mostWhat about Liberty? Don't they have as much claim as FSU? Didn't they do everything FSU did and go 13-0?
accomplished teams in the country along with Michigan and Washington.
How do we choose between FSU and Liberty? Why aren't you concerned about the fact that Liberty got hosed?
They did more than Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.No, but the others can say they played top ten teams. Alabama played two top 6 teams. FSU didn't play a single top team. They went undefeated
They went undefeated and won a Power 5 championship. None of the other three can say that.
against an easy schedule. Big whoop.
Alabama was just going through the motions against a mediocre team and looking ahead to Georgia. Playing such a sloppy game
They were barely able to score on a team that lost to Kentucky.
Alabama needed a miracle to beat a team that got rolled by New Mexico State. If you are going to downgrade FSU for
barely beating Louisville, shouldn't you do the same for Alabama for barely beating Auburn?
indeed almost cost them. The play itself was not a miracle, it was a 1st string quarterback making a pass typical at this level of college.
The miracle was the prevent defense called by Auburn. The quarterback knew from the start of the play they likely had a TD.
That's the point, FSU cannot make plays like this one anymore and they proved it in the last few games.
Why should we only grade a team by their offense. Why shouldn't a stifling defense be given the same weight as a high
powered offense. Special teams matter too. How you win a game shouldn't matter. What matters is that you win. Neither
Alabama nor FSU was impressive in their rivalry game but only one got dinged for it by the committee.
Anyway, if you knew anything about football, you'd know Alabama-Auburn is not a normal game. Records abd rankings mean little.
The emotions and motivation are way, way differrent than those in a game aginst Louisville.
FSU's rivalry game is with Florida, the last regular season of the game. That rivalry is just as fierce and means as much to the players as the Iron Bowl does to Alabama and Auburn.
travesty.
On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 07:25:52 -0800 (PST), JE Corbett <jecorbett4@gmail.com> wrote:
. So why should Alabama and Texas have jumped FSU? It was a
travesty.
Because in their last games of the season, their conference championships,
Alabama beat the #1 ranked team, a team that had won 29 straight and the last two NCs.
Texas crushed OK St with almost 700 yards total offense
FSU struggled agianst Louisville, a team that had just lost their previous game to a 5 loss team
Those were the last games before the final choices, and all 3 games were on national tv for all to see.
FSU needed a better game to keep their position. The concern was that FSU was not the same team
they had been, and that game confirmed it, while Texas and Alabama looked vey strong. Might have
had a better chance had the game not been nationally televised in prime time.
On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 9:58:27?AM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it).
The four best teams is a completely subjective and arbitrary standard. There is
no way to measure that. What I think are the four best teams probably won't be
what somebody else thinks are the four best teams. Furthermore, if you were >> to really put the four best teams in the playoff, you might have to put in a great
but underachieving team (Ohio State, Georgia?). In some years that could be >> a team with two or three losses. There is no way to measure the four best. >>
What we can measure are accomplishments. By that criteria, Michigan,
Washington, FSU, and Texas would get the nod. The first three because they >> are undefeated Power 5 conference champions and Texas would get the nod
over Alabama because they beat them head-t0-head.
The committee neither selected the four best teams nor the four most
accomplished teams. Their choices were political. They didn't want to ruffle >> feathers by leaving the SEC out. They had to take Alabama over Georgia but >> they couldn't justify putting Alabama in and leaving Texas out so they took >> put them both in and gave the finger to FSU. I truly believe that if Georgia >> had won the SEC, they would have selected the four unbeaten conference
champions and left Texas out.
I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(
On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 4:33:29?PM UTC-5, j...@mich.com wrote:which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it).
On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:49:07 -0800 (PST), michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 9:58:27?AM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:
The four best teams is a completely subjective and arbitrary standard. There is
no way to measure that. What I think are the four best teams probably won't be
what somebody else thinks are the four best teams. Furthermore, if you were
to really put the four best teams in the playoff, you might have to put in a great
but underachieving team (Ohio State, Georgia?). In some years that could be
a team with two or three losses. There is no way to measure the four best.
What we can measure are accomplishments. By that criteria, Michigan,
Washington, FSU, and Texas would get the nod. The first three because they
are undefeated Power 5 conference champions and Texas would get the nod >> >> over Alabama because they beat them head-t0-head.
The committee neither selected the four best teams nor the four most
accomplished teams. Their choices were political. They didn't want to ruffle
feathers by leaving the SEC out. They had to take Alabama over Georgia but
they couldn't justify putting Alabama in and leaving Texas out so they took
put them both in and gave the finger to FSU. I truly believe that if Georgia
had won the SEC, they would have selected the four unbeaten conference
champions and left Texas out.
I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(
Washington was at home. 7 other data points from comparative Pac-12 games suggest that Oregon is actually the better team than Washington. And all the predictive computers agree: Oregon is a better team than Washington. But we don't reward on that, wefor rivals and fans, but should not mean the winner must always and forever be ranked above the loser. The rest of the season must also be looked at,
especially closer to season end. Bowl game and conference championship rematches have demonstrated this many times. My favorite is FSU and UF in
1997. #2 FSU beat #1 Florida final game of the regular season by 3 points, a game when UF's entire offense line was out with injuries. Both were then
chosen as the best teams for the Sugar Bowl. Bowden shit, he knew the Gators were the better team, and FSU could likely win a NC against any other
team but lose one if they played the Gators. In the rematch with their line back, the Gators won by 32 points.
In 1993 #2 Notre Dame beat #1 FSU by intercepting an endzone pass at the end. Next game ND lost to #17 Boston College then beat #7 T-A&M by 3.
while FSU crushed NS State by 60, beat #6 UF and then #2 Nebraska, and there are still those who think ND should have jumped past FSU to #1. If ND and
FSU had played 10 times that season, it probably would have been 8-2 in FSU's favor. It's BS to think one close HTH meant ND should always be ranked
higher than FSU regardless of how the season progressed.
And, anyway, the pros demonstrate the insignificance of mid-season HTH regularly.
Nobody's arguing HTH is the be-all end-all. Otherwise, people would be arguing that Oklahoma should be in over Texas and then find themselves in a giant loop. The point is that HTH is used as a tie-breaker for close situations.
But if we are going to hold out teams that are worse but won their games from the postseason, why don't we nix Washington's place in the CFP and give it to Oregon? Sure Washington beat Oregon twice, but it was very close both times and the first time
On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:49:10 AM UTC-5, michael anderson wrote:which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it).
On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-6, JE Corbett wrote:
The four best teams is a completely subjective and arbitrary standard. There isI completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
no way to measure that. What I think are the four best teams probably won't be
what somebody else thinks are the four best teams. Furthermore, if you were
to really put the four best teams in the playoff, you might have to put in a great
but underachieving team (Ohio State, Georgia?). In some years that could be
a team with two or three losses. There is no way to measure the four best. >> >
What we can measure are accomplishments. By that criteria, Michigan,
Washington, FSU, and Texas would get the nod. The first three because they >> > are undefeated Power 5 conference champions and Texas would get the nod
over Alabama because they beat them head-t0-head.
The committee neither selected the four best teams nor the four most
accomplished teams. Their choices were political. They didn't want to ruffle
feathers by leaving the SEC out. They had to take Alabama over Georgia but >> > they couldn't justify putting Alabama in and leaving Texas out so they took
put them both in and gave the finger to FSU. I truly believe that if Georgia
had won the SEC, they would have selected the four unbeaten conference
champions and left Texas out.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(
The silly thing about the HTH standard is by the end of the season,
somebody has to be ranked above another team that beat them. There's
no getting around it. HTH only means on one particular day, one team
was better than another. Does that mean we should ignore the other
11 games? I remember the uproar back in the BCS days when Colorado
rolled Nebraska in their regular season finale and beat Texas in the
Big 12 Championship but Nebraska narrowly made it into the national championship game based on the BCS formula. It was because the BCS
formula took into account all the games both teams played. It had no
recency bias other than what existed amongst the pollsters. Colorado
had lost TWO regular season games and that was their undoing. HTH is important, but it shouldn't be used as an eraser. Despite Alabama
beating Georgia, I think Georgia has been the better team over the
course of the season and if they four best teams had been selected,
Georgia would have been one of thm.
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