• (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season

    From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 13 18:45:01 2022
    Today ended the 2022 season in Brasil, with the league's final round. Since Palmeiras had already won it in advance and relegation was already set too, the only interest was in the final spots for the international competitions.

    Here are the final round's results:

    Flamengo 1-2 Avaí

    Neither side had anything to play for. Avaí keeps yoyo'ing through Series A and B, since 2014 it's been B-A-B-A-B-A-B-B-A. The last time they managed to avoid the drop in Serie A was in 2010. Flamengo, with two cups won in the
    end of the season, was in festive mood.

    América Mineiro 1-1 Atlético Goianiense

    Two frustrated sides. Had América won this one they'd qualify to the Libertadores
    preliminary round. Atlético Goianiense had faint hopes to avoid the drop, though
    due to other results they'd go down even if they won anyway.

    RB Bragantino 0-1 Fluminense

    A single goal by Germán Cano, league top goalscorer with 26 goals, was enough to separate both sides. Fluminense had nothing to play for, RB Bragantino could have missed the last Sudamericana spot had other results not gone their way.

    Corinthians 0-1 Atlético Mineiro

    Atlético did their part, but were eventually outranked by their Paranaense cousins and will have to do with the Libertadores preliminary round. Corinthians
    had nothing to play for.

    Santos 0-2 Fortaleza

    Fortaleza had been last for a while and looked set to drop to Serie B, but
    40 points in the second half of the season pushed them up high enough for
    the pre-Libertadores round. At the end of the game the players watched the final moments of América Mineiro vs Atlético Goianiense, which ended in a draw that suited them. Santos fans ended up protesting against their board
    for a season that was way below what than they hoped for.

    Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras

    Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
    22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.

    Ceará 4-1 Juventude

    A duel between relegated teams played behind closed doors, due to incidents
    in the Ceará-Cuiabá game a couple of rounds ago.

    Goiás 0-4 São Paulo

    Solid win by São Paulo running for a Libertadores spot, against a Goiás that had nothing to play for. But eventually Fortaleza pipped them out, and they'll have to do with Copa Sudamericana again.

    Cuiabá 2-1 Coritiba

    Cuiabá survives again, relegates Atlético Goianiense and keeps Coritiba from qualifying to Copa Sudamericana.

    Athletico Paranaense 3-0 Botafogo

    This was the last game of Luiz Felipe Scolari's career as coach, and in his farewell he got his team qualified to the Libertadores 2023 group stage, denying
    Botafogo a spot in the tournament. Scolari will become Athletico's technical director.

    Serie A Final Table:
    [games, wins, draws, losses, goals scored-goals conceded, points]

    1 Palmeiras 38 23 12 3 66-27 39+ 81 Champions, Copa Libertadores group stage
    2 Internacional 38 20 13 5 58-31 27+ 73 Copa Libertadores group stage
    3 Fluminense 38 21 7 10 63-41 22+ 70 Copa Libertadores group stage
    4 Corinthians 38 18 11 9 44-36 8+ 65 Copa Libertadores group stage
    5 Flamengo 38 18 8 12 60-39 21+ 62 Cup winners, Copa Libertadores group stage (Copa Libertadores'22 winners)
    6 Ath. Paranaense 38 16 10 12 48-48 0 58 Copa Libertadores group stage ----------------------------------------
    7 Atlético Mineiro 38 15 13 10 45-37 8+ 58 Copa Libertadores preliminary round 8 Fortaleza 38 15 10 13 46-39 7+ 55 Copa Libertadores preliminary round ----------------------------------------
    9 São Paulo 38 13 15 10 55-42 13+ 54 Copa Sudamericana
    10 América Mineiro 38 15 8 15 40-40 0 53 Copa Sudamericana
    11 Botafogo 38 15 8 15 41-43 2- 53 Copa Sudamericana
    12 Santos 38 12 11 15 44-41 3+ 47 Copa Sudamericana
    13 Goiás 38 11 13 14 40-53 13- 46 Copa Sudamericana
    14 RB Bragantino 38 11 11 16 49-59 10- 44 Copa Sudamericana ----------------------------------------
    15 Coritiba 38 12 6 20 39-60 21- 42
    16 Cuiabá 38 10 11 17 31-42 11- 41
    ----------------------------------------
    17 Ceará 38 7 16 15 34-41 7- 37 Relegated to Serie B
    18 Atl. Goianiense 38 8 12 18 39-57 18- 36 Relegated to Serie B
    19 Avaí 38 9 8 21 34-60 26- 35 Relegated to Serie B
    20 Juventude 38 3 13 22 29-69 40- 22 Relegated to Serie B

    The four big teams came up from Serie B. Cruzeiro dominated the tournament, clinching promotion in Round 31 and the title in Round 32. Gremio, Vasco and Bahia suffered more. Though they generally hanged around the top 4 spots in almost every round, Gremio pulled it in Round 36, while Vasco and Bahia had
    to do it in away matches in the last round.

    Serie B Final Table:
    [games, wins, draws, losses, goals scored-goals conceded, points]

    1 Cruzeiro 38 23 9 6 57-26 31+ 78 Promoted to Serie A
    2 Grêmio 38 17 14 7 50-26 24- 65 Promoted to Serie A
    3 Vasco da Gama 38 17 11 10 48-36 12+ 64 Promoted to Serie A
    4 Bahia 38 17 11 10 43-29 14+ 62 Promoted to Serie A ----------------------------------------
    5 Sampaio Corrêa 38 16 10 12 48-42 6+ 58
    6 Ituano 38 15 12 11 42-34 8+ 57
    7 Sport 38 15 12 11 37-31 6+ 56
    8 Criciúma 38 14 14 10 43-31 12+ 56
    9 Londrina 38 14 11 13 36-37 1- 53
    10 Guarani 38 13 12 13 33-36 3- 51
    11 CRB 38 13 11 14 35-43 8- 50
    12 Ponte Preta 38 12 13 13 34-36 2- 49
    13 Vila Nova 38 9 20 9 28-31 3- 47
    14 Chapecoense 38 11 12 15 37-39 2- 45
    15 Tombense 38 10 15 13 38-47 9- 45
    16 Novorizontino 38 11 11 16 44-49 5- 44 ----------------------------------------
    17 CSA 38 9 15 14 29-37 8- 42 Relegated to Serie C
    18 Brusque 38 8 10 20 21-38 17- 34 Relegated to Serie C
    19 Operário 38 7 13 18 31-53 22- 34 Relegated to Serie C
    20 Náutico 38 8 6 24 32-65 33- 30 Relegated to Serie C

    From the lower divisions, Vitória are back from Serie C, and both clubs from Natal (ABC and América) also earned promotions.

    Divisional movements:

    A to B: Ceará, Atlético-GO, Avaí, Juventude

    B to A: Cruzeiro, Grêmio, Vasco da Gama, Bahia
    B to C: CSA, Brusque, Operário, Náutico

    C to B: Mirassol, ABC, Botafogo-SP, Vitória
    C to D: Atlético-CE, Brasil de Pelotas, Ferroviário, Campinense

    D to C: América-RN, Pouso Alegre, São Bernardo, Amazonas

    Geographical spread:

    The four divisions will have 124 teams in 2023 (20 in Series A, B and C, and
    64 in Serie D). 123 of these teams are already known. The remaining spot in Serie D is awaiting the winner of the Maranhão State Cup (no idea when that will happen).

    The 123 teams known so far come from 91 different cities, towns and villages spread over every state in Brasil, with a total estimated population of 64,4 million people, from tiny little Tombos, on the border of Rio de Janeiro and Minas Gerais states (population about 8,000) to São Paulo (12 million, and that's not counting the metropolitan area).

    Serie A will have teams from 10 cities (total est. pop. 33.4 million) from 9 states. Serie B's teams come from 17 cities (total est. pop. 14.9 million)
    from 12 states. Serie C teams also come from 17 cities (total est. pop. 15.5 million), from 16 different states, while Serie D will have teams from 61 different cities (total est. pop. 29.5 million) from every state in Brasil.

    Cities with most teams represented, with 5 each, will be Rio de Janeiro (the big 4 in Serie A plus Portuguesa, in Serie D) and Fortaleza (Fortaleza in Serie A, Ceará in Serie B, Floresta in Serie C, Atlético Cearense and Ferroviário in Serie D).

    Palmarés:

    Adjusting the numbers to count Palmeiras' league and Flamengo's cup titles, here is what the distribution of national titles now looks like, adopting CBF's criteria:

    "leagues" = Campeonato Brasileiro (1971-2020) + Taça Brasil (1959-1968) + Torneio RGP (1967-1970)
    "cups" = Copa do Brasil (1989-2020)

    1 Palmeiras 15 (11 leagues, 4 cups)
    2 Flamengo 11 (7 leagues, 4 cups)
    3 Corinthians 10 (7 leagues, 3 cups)
    Cruzeiro 10 (4 leagues, 6 cups)
    5 Santos 9 (8 leagues, 1 cup)
    6 Grêmio 7 (2 leagues, 5 cups)
    7 São Paulo 6 (6 leagues)
    8 Fluminense 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
    Vasco da Gama 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
    10 Internacional 4 (3 leagues, 1 cup)
    Atlético Mineiro 4 (2 leagues, 2 cups)
    12 Bahia 2 (2 leagues)
    Botafogo 2 (2 leagues)
    Sport Recife 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
    Ath. Paranaense 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
    16 Coritiba 1 (1 league)
    Guarani 1 (1 league)
    Criciúma 1 (1 cup)
    Juventude 1 (1 cup)
    Paulista 1 (1 cup)
    Santo André 1 (1 cup)

    Distribution by city:

    1 São Paulo 31 (3 clubs, 24 leagues, 7 cups)
    2 Rio de Janeiro 23 (4 clubs, 17 leagues, 6 cups)
    3 Belo Horizonte 14 (2 clubs, 6 leagues, 8 cups)
    4 Porto Alegre 11 (2 clubs, 5 leagues, 6 cups)
    5 Santos 9 (1 club, 8 leagues, 1 cup)
    6 Curitiba 3 (2 clubs, 2 leagues, 1 cup)
    7 Salvador 2 (1 club, 2 leagues)
    7 Recife 2 (1 club, 1 league, 1 cup)
    9 Campinas 1 (1 club, 1 league)
    9 Santo André 1 (1 club, 1 cup)
    9 Jundiaí 1 (1 club, 1 cup)
    9 Caxias do Sul 1 (1 club, 1 cup)
    9 Criciúma 1 (1 club, 1 cup)

    Distribution by state:

    1 São Paulo 43 (7 clubs, 33 leagues, 10 cups)
    2 Rio de Janeiro 23 (4 clubs, 17 leagues, 6 cups)
    3 Minas Gerais 14 (2 clubs, 6 leagues, 8 cups)
    3 Rio Grande do Sul 12 (3 clubs, 5 leagues, 7 cups)
    5 Paraná 3 (2 clubs, 2 leagues, 1 cup)
    6 Bahia 2 (1 club, 2 leagues)
    6 Pernambuco 2 (1 club, 1 league, 1 cup)
    8 Santa Catarina 1 (1 club, 1 cup)

    So, there you have it. Palmeiras and Flamengo will play for Supercopa do Brasil on January 28th, 2023, venue to be determined.


    --
    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 16 03:36:16 2022
    On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:45:03 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:

    Corinthians 0-1 Atlético Mineiro

    Atlético did their part, but were eventually outranked by their Paranaense cousins and will have to do with the Libertadores preliminary round. Corinthians
    had nothing to play for.

    Is there any connection between Atlético Mineiro and Athletico Paranaense, or is the similarity in the names just a coincidence?

    Santos 0-2 Fortaleza

    Fortaleza had been last for a while and looked set to drop to Serie B, but 40 points in the second half of the season pushed them up high enough for the pre-Libertadores round. At the end of the game the players watched the final moments of América Mineiro vs Atlético Goianiense, which ended in a draw that suited them. Santos fans ended up protesting against their board for a season that was way below what than they hoped for.

    Fortaleza's recovery from looking as doomed to relegation as Juventude did to qualifying for the Copa Libertadores was quite impressive!

    Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras

    Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
    22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.

    Surely finishing runners-up in the Brazilian Championship isn't meaningless? Internacional still had that to play for.

    Ceará 4-1 Juventude

    A duel between relegated teams played behind closed doors, due to incidents in the Ceará-Cuiabá game a couple of rounds ago.

    So Independiente got knocked out of the Copa Sudamericana by a team that got relegated from the Brazilian Serie A. :-(

    Divisional movements:

    B to C: CSA, Brusque, Operário, Náutico

    Yes I remember Nautico being a bit of a liability for MH and I in Brasileirao Maluco. They don't seem to be a very good team.

    Palmarés:

    Adjusting the numbers to count Palmeiras' league and Flamengo's cup titles, here is what the distribution of national titles now looks like, adopting CBF's criteria:

    "leagues" = Campeonato Brasileiro (1971-2020) + Taça Brasil (1959-1968) + Torneio RGP (1967-1970)
    "cups" = Copa do Brasil (1989-2020)

    1 Palmeiras 15 (11 leagues, 4 cups)
    2 Flamengo 11 (7 leagues, 4 cups)
    3 Corinthians 10 (7 leagues, 3 cups)
    Cruzeiro 10 (4 leagues, 6 cups)
    5 Santos 9 (8 leagues, 1 cup)
    6 Grêmio 7 (2 leagues, 5 cups)
    7 São Paulo 6 (6 leagues)
    8 Fluminense 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
    Vasco da Gama 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
    10 Internacional 4 (3 leagues, 1 cup)
    Atlético Mineiro 4 (2 leagues, 2 cups)
    12 Bahia 2 (2 leagues)
    Botafogo 2 (2 leagues)
    Sport Recife 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
    Ath. Paranaense 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
    16 Coritiba 1 (1 league)
    Guarani 1 (1 league)
    Criciúma 1 (1 cup)
    Juventude 1 (1 cup)
    Paulista 1 (1 cup)
    Santo André 1 (1 cup)

    The League counts for more than the Cup doesn't it? It would be better if you listed the number of League Championships and Cups separately.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jesus Petry@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 16 05:25:11 2022
    Em quarta-feira, 16 de novembro de 2022 às 08:36:17 UTC-3, Mark escreveu:
    On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:45:03 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:

    Corinthians 0-1 Atlético Mineiro

    Atlético did their part, but were eventually outranked by their Paranaense
    cousins and will have to do with the Libertadores preliminary round. Corinthians
    had nothing to play for.
    Is there any connection between Atlético Mineiro and Athletico Paranaense, or is the similarity in the names just a coincidence?

    Atlético just means athletic, Athletico is just an old orthography form. There are many clubs in Brazil named this way: Clube Atlético Something.

    Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras

    Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
    22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.
    Surely finishing runners-up in the Brazilian Championship isn't meaningless? Internacional still had that to play for.

    Yes, there was important prize money difference to 2nd place.

    Palmarés:

    Adjusting the numbers to count Palmeiras' league and Flamengo's cup titles,
    here is what the distribution of national titles now looks like, adopting CBF's criteria:

    "leagues" = Campeonato Brasileiro (1971-2020) + Taça Brasil (1959-1968) + Torneio RGP (1967-1970)
    "cups" = Copa do Brasil (1989-2020)

    1 Palmeiras 15 (11 leagues, 4 cups)
    2 Flamengo 11 (7 leagues, 4 cups)
    3 Corinthians 10 (7 leagues, 3 cups)
    Cruzeiro 10 (4 leagues, 6 cups)
    5 Santos 9 (8 leagues, 1 cup)
    6 Grêmio 7 (2 leagues, 5 cups)
    7 São Paulo 6 (6 leagues)
    8 Fluminense 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
    Vasco da Gama 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
    10 Internacional 4 (3 leagues, 1 cup)
    Atlético Mineiro 4 (2 leagues, 2 cups)
    12 Bahia 2 (2 leagues)
    Botafogo 2 (2 leagues)
    Sport Recife 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
    Ath. Paranaense 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
    16 Coritiba 1 (1 league)
    Guarani 1 (1 league)
    Criciúma 1 (1 cup)
    Juventude 1 (1 cup)
    Paulista 1 (1 cup)
    Santo André 1 (1 cup)
    The League counts for more than the Cup doesn't it? It would be better if you listed the number of League Championships and Cups separately.

    I'm fully with you on this. But there's one more problem: CBF counts the old Taça Brasil, an obvious cup competition, as if it were a league title.

    Tchau!
    Jesus Petry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mark@21:1/5 to jesus...@gmail.com on Thu Nov 17 02:05:08 2022
    On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:25:13 PM UTC, jesus...@gmail.com wrote:
    Em quarta-feira, 16 de novembro de 2022 às 08:36:17 UTC-3, Mark escreveu:
    On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:45:03 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:


    Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras

    Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
    22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.
    Surely finishing runners-up in the Brazilian Championship isn't meaningless? Internacional still had that to play for.
    Yes, there was important prize money difference to 2nd place.

    And honour, and a measure of successfullness, and things surely?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)