• Re: Unsophisticated Prediction Tiers Season 58 Organizational Thread

    From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Mon Apr 8 00:20:25 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:



    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4 matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a team from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to accommodate this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4
    matches each (the three intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team gets a bye; and one extra week with three matches, and three teams get a bye. I think I have been able to design a schedule where each team plays exactly three matches
    at home and three matches away, and no team plays more than two consecutive matches home or away.

    Thoughts?

    I'll start with mine: I have a very strong preference for option B. Why?

    - Almost ideal length of the season (7 weeks), not too short, nor too long (keep also in mind that we are approaching the end of the season for European leagues).
    - At most one team per week gets a bye in six out of seven gameweeks. Good to keep players involved.
    - If UEFA can do unbalanced schedules, why can't UPT?
    - I have spent a good 20 minutes figuring out how to design the schedule. Do you really want all that work to go to waste?

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 8 00:14:46 2024
    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same roster of participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game (yay!), and it would be about time that UPT increased its number of players again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his participation, we would have 9 players, which makes the scheduling a bit
    tricky. A number of possible solutions:

    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. Four gameweeks in total, each week three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    A1) Same as A, but double the number of matches: Eight gameweeks in total, each team three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4 matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a team from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to accommodate this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4
    matches each (the three intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team gets a bye; and one extra week with three matches, and three teams get a bye. I think I have been able to design a schedule where each team plays exactly three matches
    at home and three matches away, and no team plays more than two consecutive matches home or away.

    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. The 4-team tier requires 6 gameweeks, but the 5 team tier requires 10 gameweeks for a full round robin. Maybe a shortened/unbalanced schedule for the 5-team tier?

    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster, so that we have either 2 groups of 5 teams, or 3 groups of 4.


    Thoughts?

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  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Mon Apr 8 04:02:26 2024
    In article <f9b8fde0ae36fb23d30f11ddc528a919@www.novabbs.com>,
    Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same roster of >participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game (yay!),
    and it would be about time that UPT increased its number of players
    again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his participation, we would have 9 >players, which makes the scheduling a bit tricky. A number of possible >solutions:

    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. Four
    gameweeks in total, each week three teams (one in each group) gets a
    bye.

    A1) Same as A, but double the number of matches: Eight gameweeks in
    total, each team three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4
    matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a team
    from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to accommodate
    this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4 matches each (the three
    intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team gets a bye;
    and one extra week with three matches, and three teams get a bye. I
    think I have been able to design a schedule where each team plays
    exactly three matches at home and three matches away, and no team plays
    more than two consecutive matches home or away.

    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. The 4-team tier requires 6
    gameweeks, but the 5 team tier requires 10 gameweeks for a full round
    robin. Maybe a shortened/unbalanced schedule for the 5-team tier?

    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster, so that we
    have either 2 groups of 5 teams, or 3 groups of 4.


    Thoughts?

    BS have you made up your mind yet?
    --
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  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Mon Apr 8 14:45:16 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same
    roster of participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game
    (yay!), and it would be about time that UPT increased its
    number of players again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his
    participation, we would have 9 players, which makes the
    scheduling a bit tricky. A number of possible solutions:

    Count me in. If you can fit me in!

    As long as the rules are somewhere and I know what I have to do,
    I'll give it a go.

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  • From MH@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Mon Apr 8 08:34:29 2024
    On 2024-04-07 18:14, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same roster of participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game (yay!),
    and it would be about time that UPT increased its number of players
    again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his participation, we would have 9 players, which makes the scheduling a bit tricky. A number of possible solutions:

    My preferences:

    1. Find more players and do tier 3 (or two tiers of 5 ?).
    2. Use bots
    3. Experiment with a Swiss system ?


    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. Four
    gameweeks in total, each week three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    A1) Same as A, but double the number of matches: Eight gameweeks in
    total, each team three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4
    matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a team
    from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to accommodate
    this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4 matches each (the three
    intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team gets a bye;
    and one extra week with three matches, and three teams get a bye. I
    think I have been able to design a schedule where each team plays
    exactly three matches at home and three matches away, and no team plays
    more than two consecutive matches home or away.

    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. The 4-team tier requires 6
    gameweeks, but the 5 team tier requires 10 gameweeks for a full round
    robin. Maybe a shortened/unbalanced schedule for the 5-team tier?
    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster, so that we
    have either 2 groups of 5 teams, or 3 groups of 4.


    Thoughts?

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  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to Blueshirt on Mon Apr 8 16:06:57 2024
    In article <xn0okbzqdhskb9d005@post.eweka.nl>,
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same
    roster of participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game
    (yay!), and it would be about time that UPT increased its
    number of players again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his
    participation, we would have 9 players, which makes the
    scheduling a bit tricky. A number of possible solutions:

    Count me in. If you can fit me in!

    As long as the rules are somewhere and I know what I have to do,
    I'll give it a go.


    Option a works !
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

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  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Tue Apr 9 09:22:07 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same roster of participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game (yay!),
    and it would be about time that UPT increased its number of players
    again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his participation, we would have 9 players, which makes the scheduling a bit tricky. A number of
    possible solutions:

    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. Four
    gameweeks in total, each week three teams (one in each group) gets a
    bye.

    A1) Same as A, but double the number of matches: Eight gameweeks in
    total, each team three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4
    matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a
    team from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to
    accommodate this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4 matches each (the
    three intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team
    gets a bye; and one extra week with three matches, and three teams
    get a bye. I think I have been able to design a schedule where each
    team plays exactly three matches at home and three matches away, and
    no team plays more than two consecutive matches home or away.

    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. The 4-team tier requires 6
    gameweeks, but the 5 team tier requires 10 gameweeks for a full round
    robin. Maybe a shortened/unbalanced schedule for the 5-team tier? D)
    We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster, so that we
    have either 2 groups of 5 teams, or 3 groups of 4.


    Thoughts?

    Ideally D, but not with bots. Otherwise C. I don't like B or A. 3 teams
    in each division is too few. I think A is less bad than B though.

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 9 19:15:37 2024
    MH wrote:

    3. Experiment with a Swiss system ?

    I had thought of this too, but the truth is that I don't really know how to implement it. By the way, I am toying with the idea of developing an Elo rating of UPT players!

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  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Wed Apr 10 13:05:19 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    By the way, I am toying with the idea of
    developing an Elo rating of UPT players!

    I like this idea.

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  • From Werner Pichler@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Fri Apr 12 08:33:40 2024
    Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same roster of participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game (yay!), and
    it would be about time that UPT increased its number of players again. Assuming Blueshirt confirms his participation, we would have 9 players,
    which makes the scheduling a bit tricky. A number of possible solutions:

    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. Four gameweeks
    in total, each week three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    A1) Same as A, but double the number of matches: Eight gameweeks in
    total, each team three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4
    matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a team
    from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to accommodate
    this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4 matches each (the three
    intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team gets a bye;
    and one extra week with three matches, and three teams get a bye. I think
    I have been able to design a schedule where each team plays exactly three matches at home and three matches away, and no team plays more than two consecutive matches home or away.

    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. The 4-team tier requires 6
    gameweeks, but the 5 team tier requires 10 gameweeks for a full round
    robin. Maybe a shortened/unbalanced schedule for the 5-team tier?

    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster, so that we
    have either 2 groups of 5 teams, or 3 groups of 4.


    Am I the only one to kind of miss Lassie, Homer and Betty?


    Ciao,
    Werner


    Thoughts?


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  • From MH@21:1/5 to Werner Pichler on Fri Apr 12 08:41:16 2024
    On 2024-04-12 02:33, Werner Pichler wrote:
    Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Interesting developments for season 58. If we have the same roster of
    participants as in Season 57, the tiers would be:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark
    Futbolmetrix

    Tier 2:
    milivella
    Werner Pichler
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry


    HOWEVER, Blueshirt has expressed interest in joining the game (yay!), and
    it would be about time that UPT increased its number of players again.
    Assuming Blueshirt confirms his participation, we would have 9 players,
    which makes the scheduling a bit tricky. A number of possible solutions:

    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. Four gameweeks
    in total, each week three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    A1) Same as A, but double the number of matches: Eight gameweeks in
    total, each team three teams (one in each group) gets a bye.

    B) Inter-tier matches! Three groups of three teams. Each team plays 4
    matches against its own-tier opponents, plus two matches against a team
    from one of the other tiers. We would need 7 gameweeks to accommodate
    this tournament. 6 regular weeks with 4 matches each (the three
    intra-tier matches, plus one inter-tier match), and one team gets a bye;
    and one extra week with three matches, and three teams get a bye. I think
    I have been able to design a schedule where each team plays exactly three
    matches at home and three matches away, and no team plays more than two
    consecutive matches home or away.

    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. The 4-team tier requires 6
    gameweeks, but the 5 team tier requires 10 gameweeks for a full round
    robin. Maybe a shortened/unbalanced schedule for the 5-team tier?

    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster, so that we
    have either 2 groups of 5 teams, or 3 groups of 4.


    Am I the only one to kind of miss Lassie, Homer and Betty?

    No


    Ciao,
    Werner


    Thoughts?





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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Werner Pichler on Sun Apr 14 07:17:58 2024
    Werner Pichler wrote:


    Am I the only one to kind of miss Lassie, Homer and Betty?

    I didn't dislike them, but:
    - Often there wasn't a lot of participation in Lassie's picks.
    - Betty's picks are feasible for the big leagues, which tend to have odds published well in advance. Not so much for some of the more ...ehm... esoteric leagues that we like to choose (Vamos Tacuary!)
    - Homer is fine, doh!

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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Tue Apr 16 17:27:13 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away.
    B) Inter-tier matches!
    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5.
    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster,

    My reading of people's answers in this thread:

    FM: B
    milivella: D-humans, B
    MH: D-humans, D-BOTs
    JP: D-BOTs, D-"B teams"
    Doc: A
    Mark: D-humans, C
    Werner, D-BOTs

    D-humans seems to be the preferred outcome, but that's not feasible. So if we exclude that, I see three votes for D-BOTs, two votes for B, and a bunch of others.

    This is close enough that I will exercise my gamemaster prerogative and decide for B :-)

    So, tiers for Season 58:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark

    Tier 2
    Futbolmetrix
    milivella
    Werner Pichler

    Tier 3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt


    I will post the schedule shortly. Games will start the weekend of April 27/28


    Doc, you get to choose the leagues.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MH@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Tue Apr 16 12:29:02 2024
    On 2024-04-16 11:27, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away. B)
    Inter-tier matches! C) One group of 4 and one group of 5. D) We
    recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster,

    My reading of people's answers in this thread:

    FM: B
    milivella: D-humans, B
    MH: D-humans, D-BOTs
    JP: D-BOTs, D-"B teams"
    Doc: A
    Mark: D-humans, C
    Werner, D-BOTs

    D-humans seems to be the preferred outcome, but that's not feasible. So
    if we exclude that, I see three votes for D-BOTs, two votes for B, and a bunch of others.

    This is close enough that I will exercise my gamemaster prerogative and decide for B :-)

    So, tiers for Season 58:

    Tier 1: MH
    The Doctor
    Mark

    Tier 2
    Futbolmetrix
    milivella
    Werner Pichler

    Tier 3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt


    I will post the schedule shortly. Games will start the weekend of April
    27/28


    Doc, you get to choose the leagues.


    FOr variety's sake, why not have each team in tier 1 play a game against
    a randomly selected team in each of tiers 2 and 3 ? Home to the tier 2
    team, away to the tier 3..

    That would bring it back to a six game season.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 16 21:01:53 2024
    MH wrote:


    FOr variety's sake, why not have each team in tier 1 play a game against
    a randomly selected team in each of tiers 2 and 3 ? Home to the tier 2
    team, away to the tier 3..

    That would bring it back to a six game season.

    Yes, that's exactly what Option B is. It will be a six-game season (but stretched over seven gameweeks)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Tue Apr 16 21:26:33 2024
    In article <1ea6ccca0027f0f6f46c614c231d146e@www.novabbs.com>,
    Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away.
    B) Inter-tier matches!
    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5.
    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster,

    My reading of people's answers in this thread:

    FM: B
    milivella: D-humans, B
    MH: D-humans, D-BOTs
    JP: D-BOTs, D-"B teams"
    Doc: A
    Mark: D-humans, C
    Werner, D-BOTs

    D-humans seems to be the preferred outcome, but that's not feasible. So
    if we exclude that, I see three votes for D-BOTs, two votes for B, and a >bunch of others.

    This is close enough that I will exercise my gamemaster prerogative and >decide for B :-)

    So, tiers for Season 58:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark

    Tier 2
    Futbolmetrix
    milivella
    Werner Pichler

    Tier 3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt


    I will post the schedule shortly. Games will start the weekend of April 27/28


    Doc, you get to choose the leagues.

    Welcome BS!
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to The Doctor on Tue Apr 16 21:28:01 2024
    In article <uvmqe9$2cgt$4@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <1ea6ccca0027f0f6f46c614c231d146e@www.novabbs.com>,
    Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    A) Three groups of three teams, round robin home and away.
    B) Inter-tier matches!
    C) One group of 4 and one group of 5.
    D) We recruit other players (or BOTs) to fill up the roster,

    My reading of people's answers in this thread:

    FM: B
    milivella: D-humans, B
    MH: D-humans, D-BOTs
    JP: D-BOTs, D-"B teams"
    Doc: A
    Mark: D-humans, C
    Werner, D-BOTs

    D-humans seems to be the preferred outcome, but that's not feasible. So
    if we exclude that, I see three votes for D-BOTs, two votes for B, and a >>bunch of others.

    This is close enough that I will exercise my gamemaster prerogative and >>decide for B :-)

    So, tiers for Season 58:

    Tier 1:
    MH
    The Doctor
    Mark

    Tier 2
    Futbolmetrix
    milivella
    Werner Pichler

    Tier 3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt


    I will post the schedule shortly. Games will start the weekend of April 27/28 >>

    Doc, you get to choose the leagues.

    Welcome BS!

    North America!

    Canadian Premier League

    and

    MLS
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

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  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to milivella@gmail.com on Wed Apr 17 03:57:45 2024
    In article <uvne9h$1cqkh$1@dont-email.me>,
    milivella <milivella@gmail.com> wrote:
    Futbolmetrix:


    So, tiers for Season 58:

    Tier 1: MH
    The Doctor
    Mark

    Tier 2
    Futbolmetrix
    milivella
    Werner Pichler

    Tier 3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    The way I did it was:
    "Who will play in each tier is decided: players are assigned to tiers >scrolling down...
    1. ...last season rankings, considering that 2.I > 1.III > 2.II > 1.IV,
    where 1 is the higher tier, 2 the lower tier and the Roman numbers mean
    the place in the tier
    2. ...then, the ranking of the qualification round for the new players." >(Daniele, is upt_rules.txt in our shared folder)

    I think the reasoning behind this rule was indeed to have the winner of
    a tier be actually promoted in cases like this.

    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    There is nothing I want less than helping Futbolmetrix vs. Mark, but I
    had to say it.

    (and, given the inter-tier matches, Futbolmetrix cannot even accuse me
    to avoid to play him!)


    Welcome BS

    !!

    --
    Cheers
    milivella


    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to The Doctor on Wed Apr 17 14:07:24 2024
    The Doctor wrote:

    In article <uvne9h$1cqkh$1@dont-email.me>,
    milivella <milivella@gmail.com> wrote:

    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Welcome BS

    I heard you the first time!

    Thanks, I will give it a whirl...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to milivella on Wed Apr 17 14:19:09 2024
    milivella wrote:

    The way I did it was:
    "Who will play in each tier is decided: players are assigned to tiers scrolling down...
    1. ...last season rankings, considering that 2.I > 1.III > 2.II > 1.IV,
    where 1 is the higher tier, 2 the lower tier and the Roman numbers mean
    the place in the tier
    2. ...then, the ranking of the qualification round for the new players." (Daniele, is upt_rules.txt in our shared folder)

    I think the reasoning behind this rule was indeed to have the winner of
    a tier be actually promoted in cases like this.


    Ah well, if it says so in the rules...


    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.


    There is nothing I want less than helping Futbolmetrix vs. Mark, but I
    had to say it.

    (and, given the inter-tier matches, Futbolmetrix cannot even accuse me
    to avoid to play him!)

    2 guaranteed matches versus a 33% chance of a single match...Someone *is* running away scared

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Wed Apr 17 22:48:06 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.


    This is the schedule:


    MD1 MD2 MD3 MD4 MD5 MD6 MD7
    A1-A2 A2-A3 A3-A1 A1-A3 C3-A3 A2-A1 A3-A2
    B1-B2 B2-B3 B3-B1 B1-B3 B1-C2 B2-B1 B3-B2
    C1-C2 C3-C1 C3-C2 C2-C3 B2-A2 C2-C1 C1-C3
    A3-B3 C2-A1 C1-B2 A2-C1 A1, B3, C1 bye B3-C3 A1-B1
    C3 bye B1 bye A2 bye B2 bye A3 bye C2 bye

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Wed Apr 17 22:49:21 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.


    This is the schedule:


    MD1 MD2 MD3 MD4 MD5 MD6 MD7
    A1-A2 A2-A3 A3-A1 A1-A3 C3-A3 A2-A1 A3-A2
    B1-B2 B2-B3 B3-B1 B1-B3 B1-C2 B2-B1 B3-B2
    C1-C2 C3-C1 C3-C2 C2-C3 B2-A2 C2-C1 C1-C3
    A3-B3 C2-A1 C1-B2 A2-C1 A1, B3, C1 bye B3-C3 A1-B1
    C3 bye B1 bye A2 bye B2 bye A3 bye C2 bye


    and the matrix of home and away matches:

    Home-Away schedule (H=1, A=0) Number of home matches A1 1 0 0 1 . 0 1 3
    A2 0 1 . 1 0 1 0 3
    A3 1 0 1 0 0 . 1 3
    B1 1 . 0 1 1 0 0 3
    B2 0 1 0 . 1 1 0 3
    B3 0 0 1 0 . 1 1 3
    C1 1 0 1 0 . 0 1 3
    C2 0 1 0 1 0 1 . 3
    C3 . 1 1 0 1 0 0 3

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Wed Apr 17 23:58:05 2024
    In article <fea58a3221fb3dd0d6a474d9493f2331@www.novabbs.com>,
    Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:


    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.


    This is the schedule:


    MD1 MD2 MD3 MD4 MD5 MD6 MD7
    A1-A2 A2-A3 A3-A1 A1-A3 C3-A3 A2-A1 A3-A2
    B1-B2 B2-B3 B3-B1 B1-B3 B1-C2 B2-B1 B3-B2
    C1-C2 C3-C1 C3-C2 C2-C3 B2-A2 C2-C1 C1-C3
    A3-B3 C2-A1 C1-B2 A2-C1 A1, B3, C1 bye B3-C3 A1-B1
    C3 bye B1 bye A2 bye B2 bye A3 bye C2 bye


    and the matrix of home and away matches:

    Home-Away schedule (H=1, A=0) Number of home matches >A1 1 0 0 1 . 0 1 3
    A2 0 1 . 1 0 1 0 3
    A3 1 0 1 0 0 . 1 3
    B1 1 . 0 1 1 0 0 3
    B2 0 1 0 . 1 1 0 3
    B3 0 0 1 0 . 1 1 3
    C1 1 0 1 0 . 0 1 3
    C2 0 1 0 1 0 1 . 3
    C3 . 1 1 0 1 0 0 3

    Let us get more back and in!
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Sun Apr 21 09:16:55 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    milivella wrote:

    The way I did it was:
    "Who will play in each tier is decided: players are assigned to
    tiers scrolling down...
    1. ...last season rankings, considering that 2.I > 1.III > 2.II >
    1.IV, where 1 is the higher tier, 2 the lower tier and the Roman
    numbers mean the place in the tier
    2. ...then, the ranking of the qualification round for the new
    players." (Daniele, is upt_rules.txt in our shared folder)

    I think the reasoning behind this rule was indeed to have the
    winner of a tier be actually promoted in cases like this.


    Ah well, if it says so in the rules...


    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.

    According to the rules at the beginning of the season, 3rd place was
    enough to stay in Division 1. You can't change that after the season
    has finished. FC Mark have earned our place in Tier 1.

    Any changes like that should be made known before the season starts, so
    we know what we're playing for from the start of the season.

    And if nothing short of finishing runners-up means avoiding relegation,
    doesn't that show how bad an idea 3 teams in each division is?

    And what about all our fans who have already bought season tickets
    expecting top tier teams and a chance of seeing FC Mark win the
    Championship?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to Mark on Sun Apr 21 19:44:07 2024
    Mark wrote:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    milivella wrote:

    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.

    According to the rules at the beginning of the season, 3rd
    place was enough to stay in Division 1. You can't change that
    after the season has finished. FC Mark have earned our place
    in Tier 1.

    FC Mark must have had points deducted for breaking FFP rules...

    Any changes like that should be made known before the season
    starts, so we know what we're playing for from the start of
    the season.

    And if nothing short of finishing runners-up means avoiding
    relegation, doesn't that show how bad an idea 3 teams in each
    division is?

    Second is nowhere. If you don't win, you're a loser. Losing
    shouldn't be rewarded. Throw that silver medal back in to the
    crowd.

    And what about all our fans who have already bought season
    tickets expecting top tier teams and a chance of seeing FC
    Mark win the Championship?

    Unless they post here and complain, these "fans" do not exist!!!
    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Mark on Mon Apr 22 11:17:29 2024
    Mark wrote:

    According to the rules at the beginning of the season, 3rd place was
    enough to stay in Division 1. You can't change that after the season
    has finished. FC Mark have earned our place in Tier 1.

    Sorry, Mark, it is what it is. You can take consolation in the fact that you would not be the first case of a team who is utterly dominant in its domestic league that its rivals had to find some legal shenaningans to get it (at least temporarily) out of
    the way.

    If you want, you can deem the winner of season 58 as illegitimate and start counting titles according to your own scale. Not that anybody would actually do that outside of UPT world!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to milivella on Tue Apr 23 09:08:01 2024
    milivella wrote:

    Mark:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    milivella wrote:

    The way I did it was:
    "Who will play in each tier is decided: players are assigned to
    tiers scrolling down...
    1. ...last season rankings, considering that 2.I > 1.III > 2.II >
    1.IV, where 1 is the higher tier, 2 the lower tier and the Roman
    numbers mean the place in the tier
    2. ...then, the ranking of the qualification round for the new players." (Daniele, is upt_rules.txt in our shared folder)

    I think the reasoning behind this rule was indeed to have the
    winner of a tier be actually promoted in cases like this.


    Ah well, if it says so in the rules...


    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.

    According to the rules at the beginning of the season, 3rd place was
    enough to stay in Division 1. You can't change that after the season
    has finished. FC Mark have earned our place in Tier 1.

    Any changes like that should be made known before the season
    starts, so we know what we're playing for from the start of the
    season.

    This is not a change of the rules, as they have been this way since
    literally before the game started: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/itNFWMnGJ7k/m/abpP27cF-
    PoJ Of course this does not mean that every player was aware of this
    corner case, which would have been desirable. :(

    The rules say that there are 4 teams in each tier, so it is a change in
    the rules. And what it says in that link is referring to a team leaving
    the League, not a restructuring of the League. And it also assumes 4
    teams in each Division.

    And if nothing short of finishing runners-up means avoiding
    relegation, doesn't that show how bad an idea 3 teams in each
    division is?

    It makes sense. However, 1st not being promoted is worse than 3rd out
    of 4 being relegated.

    Neither were necessary. We could have had 1 tier with 4 teams and 1
    tier with 5; or we could have gone with Jesus's suggestion of some
    football clubs fielding reserve teams, which was apparently never
    considered. (Option B didn't even get the most votes.)

    And what about all our fans who have already bought season tickets expecting top tier teams and a chance of seeing FC Mark win the Championship?

    I guess the gamemaster will have to reimburse them?

    If that happens I'll consider abandoning any plans to take this to the
    Court of arbitration for sport.

    Again, I would do anything rather than favoring Futbolmetrix over
    you, but my evi... I mean, my integrity as a gamemaster forces me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to milivella on Wed Apr 24 19:13:57 2024
    milivella wrote:

    Mark:

    milivella wrote:

    Mark:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    milivella wrote:

    The way I did it was:
    "Who will play in each tier is decided: players are
    assigned to tiers scrolling down...
    1. ...last season rankings, considering that 2.I > 1.III > 2.II >
    1.IV, where 1 is the higher tier, 2 the lower tier and the
    Roman numbers mean the place in the tier
    2. ...then, the ranking of the qualification round for the
    new players." (Daniele, is upt_rules.txt in our shared
    folder)

    I think the reasoning behind this rule was indeed to have
    the winner of a tier be actually promoted in cases like
    this.


    Ah well, if it says so in the rules...


    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.

    According to the rules at the beginning of the season, 3rd
    place was enough to stay in Division 1. You can't change that
    after the season has finished. FC Mark have earned our place in
    Tier 1.

    Any changes like that should be made known before the season
    starts, so we know what we're playing for from the start of the
    season.

    This is not a change of the rules, as they have been this way
    since literally before the game started:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/itNFWMnGJ7k/m/abpP27cF-
    PoJ Of course this does not mean that every player was aware of
    this corner case, which would have been desirable. :(

    The rules say that there are 4 teams in each tier, so it is a
    change in the rules.

    Nah, we have had 3 team tiers in the past. Even the link I posted
    refers to 3- and 2-team tiers.

    I don't remember ever having had 3 team tiers. When was that?

    And what it says in that link is referring to a team leaving
    the League, not a restructuring of the League.

    That is clearly marked as an example ("e.g.").

    And it also assumes 4
    teams in each Division.

    No, it is four in all tiers "bar eventually the bottom two".

    Well, tier 1 isn't one of the bottom 2.

    Anyway, we just voted about changing the number of teams in each tier.

    And option B did not get the most votes.

    And what about all our fans who have already bought season
    tickets expecting top tier teams and a chance of seeing FC Mark
    win the Championship?

    I guess the gamemaster will have to reimburse them?

    If that happens I'll consider abandoning any plans to take this to
    the Court of arbitration for sport.

    I want to see the trial of the century!

    This needs sorting out now, before the season continues, otherwise it
    will happen. What's the CAS's e-mail address?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Mark on Fri Apr 26 12:07:31 2024
    Mark wrote:

    milivella wrote:

    Mark:

    milivella wrote:

    Mark:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    milivella wrote:

    The way I did it was:
    "Who will play in each tier is decided: players are
    assigned to tiers scrolling down...
    1. ...last season rankings, considering that 2.I > 1.III >
    2.II >
    1.IV, where 1 is the higher tier, 2 the lower tier and the
    Roman numbers mean the place in the tier
    2. ...then, the ranking of the qualification round for the
    new players." (Daniele, is upt_rules.txt in our shared
    folder)

    I think the reasoning behind this rule was indeed to have
    the winner of a tier be actually promoted in cases like
    this.


    Ah well, if it says so in the rules...


    So the tiers would be:

    1
    MH
    The Doctor
    Futbolmetrix

    2
    Mark
    Werner Pichler
    milivella

    3
    Jesper Lauridsen
    Jesus Petry
    Blueshirt

    Fair enough, we'll go with these tiers.

    According to the rules at the beginning of the season, 3rd
    place was enough to stay in Division 1. You can't change that
    after the season has finished. FC Mark have earned our place
    in Tier 1.

    Any changes like that should be made known before the season
    starts, so we know what we're playing for from the start of
    the season.

    This is not a change of the rules, as they have been this way
    since literally before the game started:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/itNFWMnGJ7k/m/abpP27cF-
    PoJ Of course this does not mean that every player was aware of
    this corner case, which would have been desirable. :(

    The rules say that there are 4 teams in each tier, so it is a
    change in the rules.

    Nah, we have had 3 team tiers in the past. Even the link I posted
    refers to 3- and 2-team tiers.

    I don't remember ever having had 3 team tiers. When was that?

    And what it says in that link is referring to a team leaving
    the League, not a restructuring of the League.

    That is clearly marked as an example ("e.g.").

    And it also assumes 4
    teams in each Division.

    No, it is four in all tiers "bar eventually the bottom two".

    Well, tier 1 isn't one of the bottom 2.

    Anyway, we just voted about changing the number of teams in each
    tier.

    And option B did not get the most votes.

    And what about all our fans who have already bought season
    tickets expecting top tier teams and a chance of seeing FC
    Mark win the Championship?

    I guess the gamemaster will have to reimburse them?

    If that happens I'll consider abandoning any plans to take this to
    the Court of arbitration for sport.

    I want to see the trial of the century!

    This needs sorting out now, before the season continues, otherwise it
    will happen. What's the CAS's e-mail address?

    Can we have the rules changed back to what they were last season
    please? Ie 4 teams in each tier, with the top 3 staying in Tier 1.
    Otherwise FC Mark are going to consider boycotting the inter-tier
    matches or something.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Mark on Fri Apr 26 20:03:46 2024
    Mark wrote:


    Can we have the rules changed back to what they were last season
    please? Ie 4 teams in each tier, with the top 3 staying in Tier 1.
    Otherwise FC Mark are going to consider boycotting the inter-tier
    matches or something.

    Sorry, we won't be changing the rules for this season. I know it is a bit unfair to you, but but somebody has to get the short end of the stick. Maybe be could try to give this inter-tier setup a chance? I hope you don't boycott it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Sat Apr 27 07:26:56 2024
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Mark wrote:

    Can we have the rules changed back to what they were last
    season please? Ie 4 teams in each tier, with the top 3
    staying in Tier 1. Otherwise FC Mark are going to consider
    boycotting the inter-tier matches or something.

    Sorry, we won't be changing the rules for this season. I know
    it is a bit unfair to you, but but somebody has to get the
    short end of the stick. Maybe be could try to give this
    inter-tier setup a chance?

    I hope you don't boycott it.

    If my participation in Season 58 is causing an unfair situation
    for other players, players who have played for years, I will
    drop out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Doctor@21:1/5 to Blueshirt on Sat Apr 27 15:21:04 2024
    In article <xn0ol2bfglii61x000@post.eweka.nl>,
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Mark wrote:

    Can we have the rules changed back to what they were last
    season please? Ie 4 teams in each tier, with the top 3
    staying in Tier 1. Otherwise FC Mark are going to consider
    boycotting the inter-tier matches or something.

    Sorry, we won't be changing the rules for this season. I know
    it is a bit unfair to you, but but somebody has to get the
    short end of the stick. Maybe be could try to give this
    inter-tier setup a chance?

    I hope you don't boycott it.

    If my participation in Season 58 is causing an unfair situation
    for other players, players who have played for years, I will
    drop out.




    Please don't drop out
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Blueshirt on Mon Apr 29 10:09:43 2024
    Blueshirt wrote:

    Futbolmetrix wrote:

    Mark wrote:

    Can we have the rules changed back to what they were last
    season please? Ie 4 teams in each tier, with the top 3
    staying in Tier 1. Otherwise FC Mark are going to consider
    boycotting the inter-tier matches or something.

    Sorry, we won't be changing the rules for this season. I know
    it is a bit unfair to you, but but somebody has to get the
    short end of the stick. Maybe be could try to give this
    inter-tier setup a chance?

    I hope you don't boycott it.

    If my participation in Season 58 is causing an unfair situation
    for other players, players who have played for years, I will
    drop out.

    Thank you.

    Blueshirt can join next season after we've had a season where everyone
    knows what they're playing for right from the start of the season. Or
    better still, scrap the idea of 3 team tiers and have 4 teams in
    Division 1 and 5 in Division 2. Or discuss other options, eg clubs
    fielding reserve teams.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)