• (R/T) Conmebol WCQ 2026, Round 5

    From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 17 11:38:27 2023
    This was a rather interesting round in Conmebol WCQ. Two managers making their debut; a records holding player on his farewell game for his country; a player scoring a brace and leading his team to a landmark victory, with his father, recently released from captivity, watching from the stands; and the Unofficial Football World Championship changing hands at the continent's oldest derby. Not bad for a Thursday, I'd say.

    Bolivia 2-0 Peru

    One cycle closed and another one began on this match, at Estadio Hernando Siles, in La Paz. This was Marcelo Moreno's 106th and last game for Bolivia.
    He is the holder of the records of most appearances and most goals too (31) wearing La Verde, on an international career that began on September 12th, 2007, in a friendly also against Peru.

    On the other hand, this was also the debut of Antonio Carlos Zago as manager
    of Bolivia. A successful defender on his club days, always on the periphery
    of the Brazilian national team (he was called up for two Copa Americas, 1993 and 1999, and a handful of WCQ's), his managerial career is a bit all over
    the place, with a couple of big clubs here and there, but overall peppered with journeyman sides. This is his first experience with a national team.

    And it seemed to start off with the right foot. Goals by Henry Vaca (19th minute) and Ramiro Vaca (87th) finished off a poor Peruvian side, which is
    yet to even score in this qualifying cycle.

    Venezuela 0-0 Ecuador

    Not a very rocking game at Estadio Monumental de Maturín, as Venezuela and Ecuador hold each other to a goalless draw. A bit of an even game from what
    I could grasp from highlights. Another manager had his debut on this game
    too, Felix Sanchez, who was manager of Qatar in World Cup 2022 and is now
    at Ecuador's helm.

    Colombia 2-1 Brasil

    An eventful night at Estadio Metropolitano de Barranquilla, as Colombia pulls off its first ever win over Brasil in a World Cup Qualifier (and 4th in the overall record, the others having been in 1985, 1991 and 2015). This was also the first time Brasil ever lost two WCQ's in a row.

    Brasil seemed to start off in full throttle and, on an assist by Vinicius Junior, Martinelli scored the opener in the 3rd minute. But Colombia steadily built its way back into the match and soon was the better side on the pitch. Alisson made a handful of good saves to keep Brasil's advantage, but Luis Diaz's
    brace, in the 74th and 78th minutes, sealed the comeback and gave Colombia its deserved win.

    These days have been a rollercoaster ride for Luis Diaz. His father, Mane Diaz, had been kidnapped and was released about a week ago, in time to go
    to the stadium and watch his son lead his team to a historic victory over Brasil.

    Argentina 0-2 Uruguay

    A clinical performance by Uruguay at La Bombonera, in Buenos Aires, that
    was successful in shutting off Argentina. In the 41st minute, Viña and
    Molina exchanged successive challenges against each other down the left
    wing. Viña eventually prevailed and found the space to cross into the
    penalty area, for a successful finish by Ronald Araujo. And at the end of
    the game, as Messi tried to dribble his way through the Celeste defense,
    he was disarmed and, three touches later, Darwin Nuñez pulled the counter attack, outpacing Otamendi down the pitch. Then, mano-a-mano with Martínez, he first faked a shot and then fired it under the keeper's legs to finish
    off the hosts.

    Argentina didn't create as many chances as they usually do. They did come close to equalizing on a free kick by Messi, which hit the bar at Rochet's upper left corner. Argentina had a couple more opportunities, but the Uruguayan keeper was there to stop them.

    Some landmarks here as well: This was Lionel Scaloni's first ever WCQ loss
    as Argentina manager, as well as Uruguay's first ever WCQ victory over Argentina as visitors. Overall, this was Argentina's 5th ever WCQ home loss.

    Also, it appears that with this result, Uruguay are now the holders of the Unofficial Football World Championship.

    https://www.ufwc.co.uk/

    The site's last update was the 2022 World Cup final, but this was Argentina's first loss since. Their (UFWC) twitter profile, though, shared the news, which I thought might be of interest to rss.

    Chile 0-0 Paraguay

    Honours even at Estadio Monumental de Santiago. A fair result, as both teams created some scoring chances, but failed to capitalize on them. Paraguay had Robert Rojas being sent off at the end of the first half, thus opening space for Chile to make most of the play in the second. However, they didn't make
    it count and even saw Victor Mendez earn a red card as well in the end of the game. A frustrating result for both sides, neither of which seemed to deserve better.


    Table [points, games, w-d-l, gs-gc, gd, (mi = media inglese)]

    1 Argentina 12 5 4 0 1 7-2 7+ (mi = +1)
    2 Uruguay 10 5 3 1 1 10-5 5+ (mi = +1)
    3 Colombia 9 5 2 3 0 5-3 2+ (mi = -2)
    4 Venezuela 8 5 2 2 1 5-2 3+ (mi = -3)
    5 Brasil 7 5 2 1 2 8-6 2+ (mi = -2)
    6 Ecuador 5 5 2 2 1 4-3 1+ (mi = -1) (-3 points penalty) -----------------------------
    7 Paraguay 5 5 1 2 2 1-2 1- (mi = -4)
    -----------------------------
    8 Chile 5 5 1 2 2 3-6 3- (mi -6)
    9 Bolivia 3 5 1 0 4 4-11 7- (mi -8)
    10 Peru 1 5 0 1 4 0-7 7- (mi -8)


    Next round to be played on November 21st. In brackets below, the results of these games in the WCQ cycles of 2022/2018/2014/2010/2006/2002/1998 (all the round robin ones so far):

    Paraguay - Colombia (1-1, 0-1, 1-2, 0-2, 0-1, 0-4, 2-1)

    Past results make this one look predictable enough: Paraguay's last home win over Colombia was in the 20th century. And although three of Colombia's wins since were meaningless Round 18 clashes, that wasn't the case with the more recent ones. Plus, Colombia is the only unbeaten team remaining in this cycle, and are coming from a morale boosting victory over Brasil, while Paraguay is as mediocre as they've been for a while. I don't see a blowout at Defensores del Chaco, in Asuncion, but Colombia could definitely pull a 0-1 win. In soph-terms: Paraguay 0.20, draw 0.30, Colombia 0.50.

    Uruguay - Bolivia (4-2, 4-2, 4-2, 5-0, 5-0, 1-0, 1-0)

    Uruguay is on a roll, coming from two victories over their two main rivals
    and facing the continent's weakest team (and historical weakest visitor) at
    El Centenario, Montevideo. Can't envision anything other than a Celeste victory
    on this one, say, 3-0. In soph-terms: Uruguay 0.95, draw 0.05, Bolivia zero.

    Ecuador - Chile (0-0, 3-0, 3-1, 1-0, 2-0, 1-0, 1-1)

    Ecuador has the better side and plays at the altitude of Quito, in Estadio
    Casa Blanca. They're on a decent run, indeed they'd be ahead of Brasil if
    not for the points penalty. Chile has been poor, might pull out a brave display,
    but I think this is Ecuador's to lose. I'll call a 2-0 win for the hosts. In soph-terms: Ecuador 0.60, draw 0.30, Chile 0.10.

    Brasil - Argentina (n/a, 3-0, n/a, 0-0, 3-1, 3-1, n/a)

    An interesting, up for grabs Superclasico at Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro. Brasil has never lost a home WCQ game, but they've been sailing through troubled waters
    in this cycle, coming from an unprecedented two losses in a row, missing Neymar
    and Casemiro and playing really unconvincing football. This is a huge contrast to their rivals, who are incumbent world and continental champions, have a motivated all-time great playing as their #10 and are in great form and with lots of confidence.

    I don't think I can remember a Brasil vs Argentina in which the scales ever seemed so tipped in Argentina's favor. Plus, their 2021 victory at Maracanã not only did wonders to boost the albiceleste's confidence on their path towards World Cup success; it also means they now know that Brasil vs Argentina,
    in Brasil, no longer needs to be a win for the hosts or a draw. They achieved their dream of lifting a trophy at Maracanã, and now smell the opportunity to break Brasil's historical WCQ home invincibility.

    So, it would seem Brasil's record is at real risk now, there's a lot at stake from the historic rivalry's point of view. The only thing that remains to be seen is how Argentina will react to the sucker punch they just took from their neighbors across Rio de la Plata, which I think might be a mere a bump on the road. Still, a derby is a derby is a derby, who knows what is to come. I'll call
    it a 1-1 draw, with a slight edge to the visitors. In soph-terms: Brasil 0.30, draw 0.35, Argentina 0.35.

    Peru - Venezuela (1-0, 2-2, 2-1, 1-0, 0-0, 1-0, 4-1)

    Usually Peru would have the edge on this one. But they've been so poor so far, while Venezuela has actually been decent. Venezuela's last away victory was against Paraguay, in Round 18 of WC 2018's qualifying cycle. Since then, their WCQ away record is 11 games, 10 losses and 1 draw (against Brasil last month...).
    Regardless, I think we might see the visitors walking off from this one with the three points. My call for this one is Peru 0-1 Venezuela. In soph-terms: Peru 0.25, draw 0.35, Venezuela 0.40.


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Werner Pichler@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 19 04:48:45 2023
    On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 8:38:30 PM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:
    This was a rather interesting round in Conmebol WCQ. Two managers making their
    debut; a records holding player on his farewell game for his country; a player
    scoring a brace and leading his team to a landmark victory, with his father, recently released from captivity, watching from the stands; and the Unofficial
    Football World Championship changing hands at the continent's oldest derby. Not bad for a Thursday, I'd say.

    Bolivia 2-0 Peru

    One cycle closed and another one began on this match, at Estadio Hernando Siles, in La Paz. This was Marcelo Moreno's 106th and last game for Bolivia. He is the holder of the records of most appearances and most goals too (31) wearing La Verde, on an international career that began on September 12th, 2007, in a friendly also against Peru.

    On the other hand, this was also the debut of Antonio Carlos Zago as manager of Bolivia. A successful defender on his club days,

    I only remember him as a Roma player back when I started to pay attention to Serie A football,
    had no idea he became a manager.

    always on the periphery of the Brazilian national team (he was called up
    for two Copa Americas, 1993 and 1999, and a handful of WCQ's), his
    managerial career is a bit all over the place, with a couple of big clubs here
    and there, but overall peppered with journeyman sides. This is his first experience with a national team.

    And it seemed to start off with the right foot. Goals by Henry Vaca (19th minute) and Ramiro Vaca (87th) finished off a poor Peruvian side, which is yet to even score in this qualifying cycle.

    Venezuela 0-0 Ecuador

    Not a very rocking game at Estadio Monumental de Maturín, as Venezuela and Ecuador hold each other to a goalless draw. A bit of an even game from what I could grasp from highlights. Another manager had his debut on this game too, Felix Sanchez, who was manager of Qatar in World Cup 2022 and is now
    at Ecuador's helm.

    Venezuela ahead of Brazil in the standings though after five matches.

    That would have been a worthwhile bet. :)

    Colombia 2-1 Brasil

    An eventful night at Estadio Metropolitano de Barranquilla, as Colombia pulls
    off its first ever win over Brasil in a World Cup Qualifier (and 4th in the overall record, the others having been in 1985, 1991 and 2015). This was also
    the first time Brasil ever lost two WCQ's in a row.

    I had wondered!

    Brasil seemed to start off in full throttle and, on an assist by Vinicius Junior, Martinelli scored the opener in the 3rd minute. But Colombia steadily
    built its way back into the match and soon was the better side on the pitch. Alisson made a handful of good saves to keep Brasil's advantage, but Luis Diaz's
    brace, in the 74th and 78th minutes, sealed the comeback and gave Colombia its
    deserved win.

    These days have been a rollercoaster ride for Luis Diaz. His father, Mane Diaz, had been kidnapped and was released about a week ago, in time to go
    to the stadium and watch his son lead his team to a historic victory over Brasil.

    Argentina 0-2 Uruguay

    A clinical performance by Uruguay at La Bombonera, in Buenos Aires, that
    was successful in shutting off Argentina. In the 41st minute, Viña and Molina exchanged successive challenges against each other down the left wing. Viña eventually prevailed and found the space to cross into the penalty area, for a successful finish by Ronald Araujo. And at the end of the game, as Messi tried to dribble his way through the Celeste defense,
    he was disarmed and, three touches later, Darwin Nuñez pulled the counter attack, outpacing Otamendi down the pitch. Then, mano-a-mano with Martínez, he first faked a shot and then fired it under the keeper's legs to finish off the hosts.

    Argentina didn't create as many chances as they usually do. They did come close to equalizing on a free kick by Messi, which hit the bar at Rochet's upper left corner. Argentina had a couple more opportunities, but the Uruguayan keeper was there to stop them.

    Some landmarks here as well: This was Lionel Scaloni's first ever WCQ loss as Argentina manager, as well as Uruguay's first ever WCQ victory over Argentina as visitors. Overall, this was Argentina's 5th ever WCQ home loss.

    Also, it appears that with this result, Uruguay are now the holders of the Unofficial Football World Championship.

    https://www.ufwc.co.uk/

    The site's last update was the 2022 World Cup final, but this was Argentina's
    first loss since. Their (UFWC) twitter profile, though, shared the news, which
    I thought might be of interest to rss.

    It is! Their twitter account also shared the interesting fact that Uruguay robbed
    Argentina of the title one game before the latter would have caught up with England
    as #2 overall.


    Chile 0-0 Paraguay

    Honours even at Estadio Monumental de Santiago. A fair result, as both teams created some scoring chances, but failed to capitalize on them. Paraguay had Robert Rojas being sent off at the end of the first half, thus opening space for Chile to make most of the play in the second. However, they didn't make it count and even saw Victor Mendez earn a red card as well in the end of the
    game. A frustrating result for both sides, neither of which seemed to deserve
    better.


    Table [points, games, w-d-l, gs-gc, gd, (mi = media inglese)]

    1 Argentina 12 5 4 0 1 7-2 7+ (mi = +1)
    2 Uruguay 10 5 3 1 1 10-5 5+ (mi = +1)
    3 Colombia 9 5 2 3 0 5-3 2+ (mi = -2)
    4 Venezuela 8 5 2 2 1 5-2 3+ (mi = -3)
    5 Brasil 7 5 2 1 2 8-6 2+ (mi = -2)
    6 Ecuador 5 5 2 2 1 4-3 1+ (mi = -1) (-3 points penalty) -----------------------------
    7 Paraguay 5 5 1 2 2 1-2 1- (mi = -4)
    -----------------------------
    8 Chile 5 5 1 2 2 3-6 3- (mi -6)
    9 Bolivia 3 5 1 0 4 4-11 7- (mi -8)
    10 Peru 1 5 0 1 4 0-7 7- (mi -8)

    Thanks for these write-ups!


    Ciao,
    Werner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 19 22:04:06 2023
    Werner Pichler escreveu:
    On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 8:38:30 PM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:
    Bolivia 2-0 Peru

    One cycle closed and another one began on this match, at Estadio Hernando Siles, in La Paz. This was Marcelo Moreno's 106th and last game for Bolivia.
    He is the holder of the records of most appearances and most goals too (31)
    wearing La Verde, on an international career that began on September 12th, 2007, in a friendly also against Peru.

    On the other hand, this was also the debut of Antonio Carlos Zago as manager
    of Bolivia. A successful defender on his club days,

    I only remember him as a Roma player back when I started to pay attention to Serie A football, had no idea he became a manager.


    My recollections of him are mostly from his Palmeiras days, but I remember
    his time at Roma as well. I didn't recall that he was there in their scudetto winning season, though.


    Venezuela 0-0 Ecuador

    Not a very rocking game at Estadio Monumental de Maturín, as Venezuela and
    Ecuador hold each other to a goalless draw. A bit of an even game from what
    I could grasp from highlights. Another manager had his debut on this game too, Felix Sanchez, who was manager of Qatar in World Cup 2022 and is now at Ecuador's helm.

    Venezuela ahead of Brazil in the standings though after five matches.

    That would have been a worthwhile bet. :)


    Indeed, who could see it coming. For reference, they finished the 2022 cycle with 10 points, and 2018 with 12. Now, 8 in 5 games. I wonder what happened, since this isn't a too different squad from the previous ones.


    Colombia 2-1 Brasil

    An eventful night at Estadio Metropolitano de Barranquilla, as Colombia pulls
    off its first ever win over Brasil in a World Cup Qualifier (and 4th in the
    overall record, the others having been in 1985, 1991 and 2015). This was also
    the first time Brasil ever lost two WCQ's in a row.

    I had wondered!


    I didn't know about that one, was caught a bit surprised when they mentioned it on TV. I just figured this must have happened sometime, especially in the 2002 cycle, in which Brasil had losses to Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Ecuador
    and Bolivia. You'd think maybe a couple of these losses came in consecutive rounds,
    but no.


    Argentina 0-2 Uruguay
    [SNIP]
    Also, it appears that with this result, Uruguay are now the holders of the Unofficial Football World Championship.

    https://www.ufwc.co.uk/

    The site's last update was the 2022 World Cup final, but this was Argentina's
    first loss since. Their (UFWC) twitter profile, though, shared the news, which
    I thought might be of interest to rss.

    It is! Their twitter account also shared the interesting fact that Uruguay robbed
    Argentina of the title one game before the latter would have caught up with England
    as #2 overall.


    Indeed. And see, had Uruguay not done it, Argentina would have had the opportunity
    to get past one hated rival (England) by avoiding a loss against another (Brasil)
    at Maracanã. La Celeste yet again throws a spanner in their bigger neighbor's works.

    Given Uruguay plays Bolivia at home next, I think it's a bit of a safe bet that
    they'll catch up with Sweden's 28 wins in 10th place. Beyond that, the WCQ will
    only return after Copa America (June/July 2024). I guess Uruguay will play some
    friendlies in preparation, though. If they successfully defend it through these,
    it'll be a nice touch to have it up for grabs in Copa America.


    [SNIP]
    Table [points, games, w-d-l, gs-gc, gd, (mi = media inglese)]

    1 Argentina 12 5 4 0 1 7-2 7+ (mi = +1)
    2 Uruguay 10 5 3 1 1 10-5 5+ (mi = +1)
    3 Colombia 9 5 2 3 0 5-3 2+ (mi = -2)
    4 Venezuela 8 5 2 2 1 5-2 3+ (mi = -3)
    5 Brasil 7 5 2 1 2 8-6 2+ (mi = -2)
    6 Ecuador 5 5 2 2 1 4-3 1+ (mi = -1) (-3 points penalty) -----------------------------
    7 Paraguay 5 5 1 2 2 1-2 1- (mi = -4)
    -----------------------------
    8 Chile 5 5 1 2 2 3-6 3- (mi -6)
    9 Bolivia 3 5 1 0 4 4-11 7- (mi -8)
    10 Peru 1 5 0 1 4 0-7 7- (mi -8)

    Thanks for these write-ups!


    Thanks!


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 02:16:18 2023
    On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, Lléo wrote:
    Overall, this was Argentina's 5th ever WCQ home loss.

    What were they? I remember 5-0 against Colombia in the qualifiers for 1994, 3-1 against Brazil, I think that was 2010; then there was a 1-0 defeat against Ecuador 2018 I think. I'm struggling to think what the other 2 were.

    Next round to be played on November 21st. In brackets below, the results of these games in the WCQ cycles of 2022/2018/2014/2010/2006/2002/1998 (all the round robin ones so far):

    Let's have a go at some predictions then.

    Paraguay - Colombia (1-1, 0-1, 1-2, 0-2, 0-1, 0-4, 2-1)

    Past results make this one look predictable enough: Paraguay's last home win over Colombia was in the 20th century. And although three of Colombia's wins since were meaningless Round 18 clashes, that wasn't the case with the more recent ones. Plus, Colombia is the only unbeaten team remaining in this cycle,
    and are coming from a morale boosting victory over Brasil, while Paraguay is as mediocre as they've been for a while. I don't see a blowout at Defensores del Chaco, in Asuncion, but Colombia could definitely pull a 0-1 win. In soph-terms: Paraguay 0.20, draw 0.30, Colombia 0.50.

    0-2

    Uruguay - Bolivia (4-2, 4-2, 4-2, 5-0, 5-0, 1-0, 1-0)

    Uruguay is on a roll, coming from two victories over their two main rivals and facing the continent's weakest team (and historical weakest visitor) at El Centenario, Montevideo. Can't envision anything other than a Celeste victory
    on this one, say, 3-0. In soph-terms: Uruguay 0.95, draw 0.05, Bolivia zero.

    4-0

    Ecuador - Chile (0-0, 3-0, 3-1, 1-0, 2-0, 1-0, 1-1)

    Ecuador has the better side and plays at the altitude of Quito, in Estadio Casa Blanca. They're on a decent run, indeed they'd be ahead of Brasil if not for the points penalty. Chile has been poor, might pull out a brave display,
    but I think this is Ecuador's to lose. I'll call a 2-0 win for the hosts. In soph-terms: Ecuador 0.60, draw 0.30, Chile 0.10.

    2-1

    Brasil - Argentina (n/a, 3-0, n/a, 0-0, 3-1, 3-1, n/a)

    An interesting, up for grabs Superclasico at Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro. Brasil
    has never lost a home WCQ game, but they've been sailing through troubled waters
    in this cycle, coming from an unprecedented two losses in a row, missing Neymar
    and Casemiro and playing really unconvincing football. This is a huge contrast
    to their rivals, who are incumbent world and continental champions, have a motivated all-time great playing as their #10 and are in great form and with lots of confidence.

    I don't think I can remember a Brasil vs Argentina in which the scales ever seemed so tipped in Argentina's favor. Plus, their 2021 victory at Maracanã not only did wonders to boost the albiceleste's confidence on their path towards World Cup success; it also means they now know that Brasil vs Argentina,
    in Brasil, no longer needs to be a win for the hosts or a draw. They achieved
    their dream of lifting a trophy at Maracanã, and now smell the opportunity to
    break Brasil's historical WCQ home invincibility.

    So, it would seem Brasil's record is at real risk now, there's a lot at stake
    from the historic rivalry's point of view. The only thing that remains to be seen is how Argentina will react to the sucker punch they just took from their
    neighbors across Rio de la Plata, which I think might be a mere a bump on the
    road. Still, a derby is a derby is a derby, who knows what is to come. I'll call
    it a 1-1 draw, with a slight edge to the visitors. In soph-terms: Brasil 0.30,
    draw 0.35, Argentina 0.35.

    This one's difficult to predict. I'll go for a 1-1 draw aswell.

    Peru - Venezuela (1-0, 2-2, 2-1, 1-0, 0-0, 1-0, 4-1)

    Usually Peru would have the edge on this one. But they've been so poor so far,
    while Venezuela has actually been decent. Venezuela's last away victory was against Paraguay, in Round 18 of WC 2018's qualifying cycle. Since then, their
    WCQ away record is 11 games, 10 losses and 1 draw (against Brasil last month...).
    Regardless, I think we might see the visitors walking off from this one with the three points. My call for this one is Peru 0-1 Venezuela. In soph-terms: Peru 0.25, draw 0.35, Venezuela 0.40.

    If Venezuela can draw away against Brazil, they should be able to win away against Peru. 1-2

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 07:14:36 2023
    Mark escreveu:
    On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, Lléo wrote:
    Overall, this was Argentina's 5th ever WCQ home loss.

    What were they? I remember 5-0 against Colombia in the qualifiers for 1994, 3-1 against Brazil, I think that was 2010; then there was a 1-0 defeat against Ecuador 2018 I think. I'm struggling to think what the other 2 were.


    The defeat to Ecuador was actually a 0-2 at Monumental de Nuñez. The other one
    was against Paraguay, in Cordoba, in the same WC 2018 qualifiers. It was the first and only time Paraguay ever beat Argentina away in a competition game. In fact, overall, Paraguay only has three wins over Argentina outside friendlies, all of them in WCQ's: two in Asunción (qualifiers for WC 2006 and 2010) and this
    one in Cordoba.

    I did not expect the record to be that extreme. I mean, Paraguay plays Copa America since the 1920's, yet they have never beaten Argentina there. Not home,
    not away and not in neutral territory.

    The fifth loss was this one to Uruguay.


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Mark on Thu Nov 23 08:30:33 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:16:20 AM UTC, Mark wrote:
    On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 7:38:30 PM UTC, Lléo wrote:
    Overall, this was Argentina's 5th ever WCQ home loss.

    What were they? I remember 5-0 against Colombia in the qualifiers for 1994, 3-1 against Brazil, I think that was 2010; then there was a 1-0 defeat against Ecuador 2018 I think. I'm struggling to think what the other 2 were.
    Next round to be played on November 21st. In brackets below, the results of
    these games in the WCQ cycles of 2022/2018/2014/2010/2006/2002/1998 (all the
    round robin ones so far):
    Let's have a go at some predictions then.

    Paraguay - Colombia (1-1, 0-1, 1-2, 0-2, 0-1, 0-4, 2-1)

    Past results make this one look predictable enough: Paraguay's last home win
    over Colombia was in the 20th century. And although three of Colombia's wins
    since were meaningless Round 18 clashes, that wasn't the case with the more
    recent ones. Plus, Colombia is the only unbeaten team remaining in this cycle,
    and are coming from a morale boosting victory over Brasil, while Paraguay is
    as mediocre as they've been for a while. I don't see a blowout at Defensores
    del Chaco, in Asuncion, but Colombia could definitely pull a 0-1 win. In soph-terms: Paraguay 0.20, draw 0.30, Colombia 0.50.
    0-2

    Lleo 100 points
    Mark 85 points

    Uruguay - Bolivia (4-2, 4-2, 4-2, 5-0, 5-0, 1-0, 1-0)

    Uruguay is on a roll, coming from two victories over their two main rivals and facing the continent's weakest team (and historical weakest visitor) at
    El Centenario, Montevideo. Can't envision anything other than a Celeste victory
    on this one, say, 3-0. In soph-terms: Uruguay 0.95, draw 0.05, Bolivia zero.
    4-0

    Lleo 100
    Mark 85

    Ecuador - Chile (0-0, 3-0, 3-1, 1-0, 2-0, 1-0, 1-1)

    Ecuador has the better side and plays at the altitude of Quito, in Estadio Casa Blanca. They're on a decent run, indeed they'd be ahead of Brasil if not for the points penalty. Chile has been poor, might pull out a brave display,
    but I think this is Ecuador's to lose. I'll call a 2-0 win for the hosts. In
    soph-terms: Ecuador 0.60, draw 0.30, Chile 0.10.
    2-1

    Lleo 85
    Mark 90

    Brasil - Argentina (n/a, 3-0, n/a, 0-0, 3-1, 3-1, n/a)

    An interesting, up for grabs Superclasico at Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro. Brasil
    has never lost a home WCQ game, but they've been sailing through troubled waters
    in this cycle, coming from an unprecedented two losses in a row, missing Neymar
    and Casemiro and playing really unconvincing football. This is a huge contrast
    to their rivals, who are incumbent world and continental champions, have a motivated all-time great playing as their #10 and are in great form and with
    lots of confidence.

    I don't think I can remember a Brasil vs Argentina in which the scales ever
    seemed so tipped in Argentina's favor. Plus, their 2021 victory at Maracanã
    not only did wonders to boost the albiceleste's confidence on their path towards World Cup success; it also means they now know that Brasil vs Argentina,
    in Brasil, no longer needs to be a win for the hosts or a draw. They achieved
    their dream of lifting a trophy at Maracanã, and now smell the opportunity to
    break Brasil's historical WCQ home invincibility.

    So, it would seem Brasil's record is at real risk now, there's a lot at stake
    from the historic rivalry's point of view. The only thing that remains to be
    seen is how Argentina will react to the sucker punch they just took from their
    neighbors across Rio de la Plata, which I think might be a mere a bump on the
    road. Still, a derby is a derby is a derby, who knows what is to come. I'll call
    it a 1-1 draw, with a slight edge to the visitors. In soph-terms: Brasil 0.30,
    draw 0.35, Argentina 0.35.
    This one's difficult to predict. I'll go for a 1-1 draw aswell.

    Lleo 30
    Mark 30

    Peru - Venezuela (1-0, 2-2, 2-1, 1-0, 0-0, 1-0, 4-1)

    Usually Peru would have the edge on this one. But they've been so poor so far,
    while Venezuela has actually been decent. Venezuela's last away victory was
    against Paraguay, in Round 18 of WC 2018's qualifying cycle. Since then, their
    WCQ away record is 11 games, 10 losses and 1 draw (against Brasil last month...).
    Regardless, I think we might see the visitors walking off from this one with
    the three points. My call for this one is Peru 0-1 Venezuela. In soph-terms:
    Peru 0.25, draw 0.35, Venezuela 0.40.

    If Venezuela can draw away against Brazil, they should be able to win away against Peru. 1-2

    Lleo 30
    Mark 30

    Totals:
    Lleo 345
    Mark 320

    We both did quite well.

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