60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday: https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

Fri
Leipzig - Stuttgart
Good one for the algorithm. 3-1

Sat
Freiburg - Werder
No problem. 2-0

Bochum - Dortmund
Ruhrderby. 0-2

Köln - Wolfsburg
2-1

Darmstadt - Union
0-2

Heidenheim - Hoffenheim
First we had the burgs, now we have the heims. 1-2

Gladbach - Leverkusen
1-2

Sun
Mainz - Frankfurt
Not really a derby, part 1. 1-2

Bayern - Augsburg
Not really a derby, part 2. 4-1

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 12:20:55 PM UTC-4, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday: https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

No Bayern, good times.

One week is too small of a sample to implement the algorithm based on this year's data, so we are still going by 2022-2023.

Fri
Leipzig - Stuttgart

3-0

Sat
Freiburg - Werder

3-1

Bochum - Dortmund

1-3

Köln - Wolfsburg

1-2

Darmstadt - Union

1-3

Heidenheim - Hoffenheim

Heidenheim are so warm and cuddly. Still, algorithm: 1-2

Gladbach - Leverkusen

1-2

Sun
Mainz - Frankfurt

A close one, let's have some fun. 1-1

Bayern - Augsburg

Not a close one: 5-1

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <uc8013$3hn2l$1@dont-email.me>,
Jesper Lauridsen <uselastnamedotfirstname@gmail.com> wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday: >https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

Fri
Leipzig - Stuttgart
Good one for the algorithm. 3-1

Sat
Freiburg - Werder
No problem. 2-0

Bochum - Dortmund
Ruhrderby. 0-2

Köln - Wolfsburg
2-1

Darmstadt - Union
0-2

Heidenheim - Hoffenheim
First we had the burgs, now we have the heims. 1-2

Gladbach - Leverkusen
1-2

Sun
Mainz - Frankfurt
Not really a derby, part 1. 1-2

Bayern - Augsburg
Not really a derby, part 2. 4-1

All games 2 - 2 and 50 red cards fly!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b If one is hearing what isn't being said, they are either very wise or quite foolish. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:20:55 PM UTC+2, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday: https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

5 survivors (Köln, Werder, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Stuttgart) out of 16 teams.

I was curious how that number compares to the other big leagues in the same time frame.

Italy - 10/18 (Bologna, Inter, Milan, Fiorentina, Juventus, Torino, Genoa, Lazio, Atalanta, Roma)
England - 13/22 (Liverpool, Man United, Everton, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Burnley, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest, West Ham, Fulham, Wolverhampton, Aston Villa)
France 9/18 (Monaco, Lens, Lyon, Toulouse, Nantes, Strasbourg, Rennes, Reims, Nice)

Fri
Leipzig - Stuttgart
Good one for the algorithm. 3-1

2-0

Sat
Freiburg - Werder
No problem. 2-0

1-1

Bochum - Dortmund
Ruhrderby. 0-2

1-1

Köln - Wolfsburg
2-1

3-1

Darmstadt - Union
0-2

0-1

Heidenheim - Hoffenheim
First we had the burgs, now we have the heims. 1-2

2-2

Gladbach - Leverkusen
1-2

3-2

Sun
Mainz - Frankfurt
Not really a derby, part 1. 1-2

4-2

Bayern - Augsburg
Not really a derby, part 2. 4-1

3-0


Ciao,
Werner

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 1:51:53 a.m. UTC-4, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:20:55 PM UTC+2, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday: https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

5 survivors (Köln, Werder, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Stuttgart) out of 16 teams.

I was curious how that number compares to the other big leagues in the same time frame.

Italy - 10/18 (Bologna, Inter, Milan, Fiorentina, Juventus, Torino, Genoa, Lazio, Atalanta, Roma)
England - 13/22 (Liverpool, Man United, Everton, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Burnley, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest, West Ham, Fulham, Wolverhampton, Aston Villa)
France 9/18 (Monaco, Lens, Lyon, Toulouse, Nantes, Strasbourg, Rennes, Reims, Nice)

Fri
Leipzig - Stuttgart
Good one for the algorithm. 3-1

2-0

VfB is the hottest team in football

2-2

Sat
Freiburg - Werder
No problem. 2-0

1-1

This is gonna be a bad year for Werder
2-1

Bochum - Dortmund
Ruhrderby. 0-2

1-1

Even the Pretenders should win this
0-2

Köln - Wolfsburg
2-1

3-1

3-3

Darmstadt - Union
0-2

0-1

1-2

Heidenheim - Hoffenheim
First we had the burgs, now we have the heims. 1-2

2-2

The Hoff is back looking for Freedom
1-2

Gladbach - Leverkusen
1-2

3-2

1-2

Sun
Mainz - Frankfurt
Not really a derby, part 1. 1-2

4-2

1-3

Bayern - Augsburg
Not really a derby, part 2. 4-1

3-0

5-0

Ciao,
Werner

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-08-24 10:20, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday: https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

Fri
Leipzig - Stuttgart
Good one for the algorithm. 3-1

2-1

Sat
Freiburg - Werder
No problem. 2-0

1-1

Bochum - Dortmund
Ruhrderby. 0-2

0-4

Köln - Wolfsburg
2-1

2-0

Darmstadt - Union
0-2

1-3

Heidenheim - Hoffenheim
First we had the burgs, now we have the heims. 1-2

0-0

Gladbach - Leverkusen
1-2

0-2

Sun
Mainz - Frankfurt
Not really a derby, part 1. 1-2

0-2

Bayern - Augsburg
Not really a derby, part 2. 4-1

3-1

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-08-24 23:51, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:20:55 PM UTC+2, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday:
https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

5 survivors (Köln, Werder, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Stuttgart) out of 16 teams.

All of whom have been relegated, usually more than once (Dortmund being
the exception ?)

I was curious how that number compares to the other big leagues in the same time frame.

Italy - 10/18 (Bologna, Inter, Milan, Fiorentina, Juventus, Torino, Genoa, Lazio, Atalanta, Roma)

Only Inter and Roma never relegated ? I am not sure about Lazio but have
a vague notion they went down at some point.

England - 13/22 (Liverpool, Man United, Everton, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Burnley, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest, West Ham, Fulham, Wolverhampton, Aston Villa)

If I recall correctly only Liverpool, Everton, and Arsenal never
relegated during that period. A lot of those teams spent many years in
lower divisions (more than half of the 60 easily)

France 9/18 (Monaco, Lens, Lyon, Toulouse, Nantes, Strasbourg, Rennes, Reims, Nice)

I could be out to lunch but I think all of those have relegated at least
once, a couple many times.


Spain I think the only unrelegated ones are Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Athletic Club de Bilbao.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 6:04:01 PM UTC+2, MH wrote:

On 2023-08-24 23:51, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:20:55 PM UTC+2, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday:
https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

5 survivors (Köln, Werder, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Stuttgart) out of 16 teams.

All of whom have been relegated, usually more than once (Dortmund being
the exception ?)

Dortmund have been relegated, in the 70's they played four seasons on the second level.

I was curious how that number compares to the other big leagues in the same time frame.

Italy - 10/18 (Bologna, Inter, Milan, Fiorentina, Juventus, Torino, Genoa, Lazio, Atalanta, Roma)

Only Inter and Roma never relegated ? I am not sure about Lazio but have
a vague notion they went down at some point.

England - 13/22 (Liverpool, Man United, Everton, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Burnley, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest, West Ham, Fulham,
Wolverhampton, Aston Villa)

If I recall correctly only Liverpool, Everton, and Arsenal never
relegated during that period. A lot of those teams spent many years in
lower divisions (more than half of the 60 easily)

France 9/18 (Monaco, Lens, Lyon, Toulouse, Nantes, Strasbourg, Rennes, Reims, Nice)

I could be out to lunch but I think all of those have relegated at least once, a couple many times.

Spain I think the only unrelegated ones are Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Athletic Club de Bilbao.

The full list is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unrelegated_association_football_clubs


Ciao,
Werner

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-08-26 13:02, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 6:04:01 PM UTC+2, MH wrote:

On 2023-08-24 23:51, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:20:55 PM UTC+2, Jesper Lauridsen wrote: >>>> 60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday:

https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

5 survivors (Köln, Werder, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Stuttgart) out of 16 teams.

All of whom have been relegated, usually more than once (Dortmund being
the exception ?)

Dortmund have been relegated, in the 70's they played four seasons on the second level.

Exception to being relegated more than once, I meant.

I was curious how that number compares to the other big leagues in the same time frame.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:50 AM UTC+2, MH wrote:

On 2023-08-26 13:02, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 6:04:01 PM UTC+2, MH wrote:

On 2023-08-24 23:51, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:20:55 PM UTC+2, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

60 years ago today, was the first Bundesliga matchday:
https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/tabelle/1963-64/1

5 survivors (Köln, Werder, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Stuttgart) out of 16 teams.

All of whom have been relegated, usually more than once (Dortmund being >> the exception ?)

Dortmund have been relegated, in the 70's they played four seasons on the second level.

Exception to being relegated more than once, I meant.

Ah I see. Yes, you're correct.

BTW a far better overview than the Wikipedia link I posted comes from the RSSSF, of course:
https://www.rsssf.org/miscellaneous/coventric.html
but - horribile dictu - the list hasn't been updated for a year and a half.


Ciao,
Werner

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-08-24, Futbolmetrix <daniele.paserman@gmail.com> wrote:

One week is too small of a sample to implement the algorithm based
on this year's data, so we are still going by 2022-2023.

What is this? Humans interfering with the machine logic?


Leipzig - Stuttgart 5-1 (14)
Freiburg - Werder 1-0 (13)
Bochum - Dortmund 1-1 (11)
Köln - Wolfsburg 1-2 (8)
Darmstadt - Union 1-4 (23)
Heidenheim - Hoffenheim 2-3 (17)
Gladbach - Leverkusen 0-3 (17)
Mainz - Frankfurt 1-1 (12)
Bayern - Augsburg 3-1 (21)

FM 38
Jesper 26
Binder 22
MH 21
Werner 19
Doc 10

Red Jersey
FM 61
Jesper 49
MH 46
Werner 44
Binder 33
Doc 17

Stage wins
MH 1
FM 1
Werner 1

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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