• The Staff game (AKA Crazy Tiny Players) - Choice #0337

    From milivella@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 21 04:25:16 2023
    Just the video, for the time being:
    https://youtu.be/2cNa_aIS174

    SPOILER DOWN THERE

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    Sometimes, it's worth the wait...

    --
    Cheers
    milivella

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Werner Pichler@21:1/5 to milivella on Wed Jun 21 03:19:08 2023
    On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:25:20 AM UTC+2, milivella wrote:
    Just the video, for the time being:
    https://youtu.be/2cNa_aIS174

    !!!

    Ciao,
    Werner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jesper Lauridsen@21:1/5 to milivella on Wed Jun 21 15:53:25 2023
    On Wednesday, 21 June 2023 at 04:25:20 UTC+2, milivella wrote:
    Just the video, for the time being:
    https://youtu.be/2cNa_aIS174

    SPOILER DOWN THERE

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    Sometimes, it's worth the wait...

    Haaland is just a cheap knock-off of da bull.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Jesper Lauridsen on Wed Jun 21 16:08:11 2023
    On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 6:53:27 PM UTC-4, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

    Sometimes, it's worth the wait...
    Haaland is just a cheap knock-off of da bull.

    Indeed!

    He was a bit rusty in the first half, TBH.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Thu Jun 22 03:14:11 2023
    On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 12:08:13 AM UTC+1, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 6:53:27 PM UTC-4, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

    Sometimes, it's worth the wait...
    Haaland is just a cheap knock-off of da bull.
    Indeed!

    He was a bit rusty in the first half, TBH.

    No wonder after all this time without playing!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to Futbolmetrix on Thu Jun 22 15:23:26 2023
    On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 1:08:13 AM UTC+2, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 6:53:27 PM UTC-4, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

    Sometimes, it's worth the wait...
    Haaland is just a cheap knock-off of da bull.
    Indeed!

    He was a bit rusty in the first half, TBH.

    Can we also put in a good word for Puputti? How many times did he make up 30 meters on an opponent running unopposed towards goal and cleared the danger?

    Also, it's nice to have a proper goalie.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From milivella@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 2 04:53:56 2023
    What happened
    =============

    The Finnish Cup quarter-finals started. Results of the matches before yours: HJK 0-1 TPS

    Your match was at home against Haka. Their XI was:
    4-3-3
    No Player Ps Skl OPr
    01 Markus Juhola G 200K
    02 Ari Heikkinen RB STP 300K
    05 Harri Ylonen D THV 180K
    06 N. Suoste M PTH 450K
    03 V. Nylund D THP 180K
    07 Sami Vaisanen A HFS 150K
    04 Jukka Ruhanen A PTH 130K
    11 Jari Kaasalainen LW CSP 180K
    08 J. Andersson A HFS 100K
    10 Sami Ristila A HFC 200K
    09 Tony Elomaa A FHP 250K

    You agreed with Aggie and fielded the following XI:

    01
    02 05 03
    06
    07 04 11
    10 09 08

    No Player I S Ps B OPr Sm PVHTCSF Skl Nat M G +- Avg+- ------------------------------------------------------------------
    01 Mazzantini G 450K 18 0000000 - ITA 16 0 +25 +1.56 ------------------------------------------------------------------
    02 Suominen RB D,DM 160K 12 TSP FIN 54 0 +23 +0.43
    05 P.Viljanen CD 160K 12 HTP FIN 10 0 + 7 +0.70
    03 Nygard LB D,DM 150K 11 TSP FIN 53 0 +21 +0.40 ------------------------------------------------------------------
    06 Puputti CM DM,D 250K 15 PTS FIN 31 0 +14 +0.45 ------------------------------------------------------------------
    07 Halonen RW AM 160K 12 SCP FIN 46 1 +34 +0.74
    04 McGinlay CM DM,D 450K 18 PTS SCO 18 0 +14 +0.78
    11 Tsymbalar LW AM 600K 21 CSP RUS 2 0 + 6 +3.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------
    10 Adlane A 180K 13 FHP ALG 22 3 + 2 +0.09
    09 Tauriainen A 250K 15 0241215 FHV FIN 45 65 +28 +0.62
    08 Piirainen A A 300K 17 2232224 FHS FIN 30 11 + 7 +0.23

    Video of the match:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNa_aIS174

    SPOILER DOWN THERE

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    Jaro - Haka
    51' 1-0 Tauriainen
    62' 2-0 Tauriainen
    68' 3-0 Tauriainen
    72' 4-0 Tauriainen
    78' 5-0 Piirainen

    J H
    Possession 53% 47%
    Goal attempts 15 10
    On target 13 7
    Corners won 2 1
    Fouls conceded 0 1

    Other results:
    Ilves and Mypa went through.

    The semi-finals will be:
    Ilves - Jaro
    TPS - MYPA

    Also notice that:
    - Halonen got a knock.
    - Halonen's price has gone up from 170K to 180K.

    New choice
    ==========

    Who do you agree with?

    A. Aggie the Agnostic: "Do. Not. Touch. Anything."

    B. Ben the Basic: "Make an offer to FinnPa for Jari Hudd: nominally a
    right back, but generally a good defender, with his
    tackling>speed>passing skills. He's worth 350K."

    D. Dan the Dazzled: "Make an offer to Brondby for Kim Daugaard. He's
    worth 350K! Oh, by the way, he is a right wing good at heading>finishing>ball-control."

    E. Evelyn the Evaluator: "I'll give you the complete skill report of a
    player (in your squad, or on the market) of your choice. You'll have to
    skip the next market round (in addition to the current one), though.
    Then you'll be given the chance to put that player on the market (if in
    your squad) or to make an offer for him (if he is on the market now)."

    F. Fred the Frugal: "You will never not play Tsymbalar. Put Jussi
    Viljanen on the market!" (Will the Watcher: "...He adds literally
    nothing to the team!"

    H. Helen the Healer: "I'll reduce Vanhala's injury by 1 match. You skip
    the next 2 market rounds (in addition to the current one), though. Or
    I'll heal Halonen, and you'll skip just the next round (in addition to
    the current one)."

    M. Marika the Marketer: "I'll give an additional 403,474 pounds (20% of
    your budget at the beginning of the season). You'll have to skip the
    next 3 market rounds (in addition to the current one), though."

    N. Noah the Netter: "OK, Da Bull this and Da Bull that, but we can get
    better forwards! Make an offer to FSW Zwickau for Jacek Mencel. An
    attacker (of course) worth 300K. Skills: finishing(!)>heading>shot-power."

    P. Pat the Paranoid: "What madman keeps only two central defenders in
    his squad?! Make an offer to VPS for Harri Kevari. For just 110K, you
    will get a player competent at heading>tackling>shot-power."

    S. Scott the Scout: "Halonen is overvalued by the market. Unload him! [=
    give him a free transfer]"

    T. Trish the Trainer: "I'll improve a player of your choice by 1 point
    out of 7 (if goalkeeping: out of 47, and that will make his price
    higher) in a skill of your choice. You'll skip the next 3 or 4 (random
    choice; if goalkeeping, 3) market rounds (in addition to the current
    one), though."

    If you agree about getting a report or heal a player, you have to
    specify which player. If you agree about improving a player's skill, you
    have to specify both the player and the skill. A different subject (i.e.
    player or player's skill) count as a different vote: e.g. two votes for
    getting the report of player A and two votes for getting the report of
    player B lose against three votes for Aggie.

    If you agree about making an offer for a player, you can specify the
    starting sum, the max sum, and whether you want to use one or two
    players of yours (whether they are on the market or not) to replace the
    amount of money equivalent to their current price. Likewise, if you
    agree about putting a player on the market, you can specify the min sum
    you're willing to accept for selling him. Different details (i.e. sums
    of money, or players to offer) do _not_ count as different votes: e.g.
    two votes for making a starting offer of 100K for player A and two votes
    for making a starting offer of 1000K for player B beat three votes for
    Aggie.

    Consider that if you put a player on the market, you won't be given the
    chance to take him off it.

    Also, you supposedly can't buy more than 5 players in a season; and you
    can't sell more than 5 players in a season. So far you bought 2 players,
    and sold 0, plus 0 in exchange for players you bought.

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    Useful info
    ===========

    Squad - Skills and performance
    ------------------------------

    Player I S Ps B OPr Sm PVHTCSF Skl Nat M G +- Avg+-
    Mazzantini G 450K 18 0000000 - ITA 17 0 +30 +1.76
    Suominen RB D,DM 160K 12 TSP FIN 55 0 +28 +0.51
    Snellman CD 100K 8 TFH FIN 10 0 + 9 +0.90
    P.Viljanen CD 160K 12 HTP FIN 11 0 +12 +1.10
    Nygard LB D,DM 150K 11 TSP FIN 54 0 +26 +0.48
    Halonen K RW AM 160K 12 SCP FIN 47 1 +39 +0.83
    McGinlay CM DM,D 450K 18 PTS SCO 19 0 +19 +1.00
    Puputti CM DM,D 250K 15 PTS FIN 32 0 +19 +0.59
    Sorvisto CM 180K 13 TPV FIN 44 7 +15 +0.34
    Wiss CM DM 150K 11 PTC FIN 21 1 - 4 -0.19
    Tsymbalar LW AM 600K 21 CSP RUS 3 0 +11 +3.67
    J.Viljanen LW A 180K 13 CSF FIN 0 0 0 0.00
    Yeremenko LW 200K 14 SCH RUS 37 2 +22 +0.59
    Adlane A 180K 13 FHP ALG 23 3 + 7 +0.30
    Piirainen A A 300K 17 2232224 FHS FIN 31 12 +12 +0.39
    Tauriainen A 250K 15 0241215 FHV FIN 46 69 +33 +0.72
    Vanhala 2 A 250K 15 PTV FIN 48 12 +22 +0.46

    Players on trial = without contract (so their price is unknown [it's low
    in most but not all cases] and they could leave the team anytime; if you
    play them enough, they'll get a contract)
    Player I S Ps B OPr Sm PVHTCSF Skl Nat M G +- Avg+-
    -

    I = Injured: number of weeks he'll be out
    - ? = out for an unknown number of weeks
    - K = Knock = his form is supposedly OK, but he's more likely to pick up
    a serious injury. The knock will heal if he'll get rest.
    - S = out for the rest of the season
    S = Suspended
    Ps = Position
    B = positon according to Ben
    OPr = Original Price when joined the club
    Sm = Sum of skill points
    PVHTCSF: skill points in
    - P = Passing
    - V = shot Velocity from outside the penalty box
    - H = Heading
    - T = Tackling
    - C = ball Control
    - S = Speed
    - F = Finishing inside the penalty box
    Skl = 1st 2nd and 3rd best skill
    Nat = Nation
    M = Matches played
    G = Goals scored
    +- = goal difference when the player was on the field
    A+- = goal difference per matches played

    Squad - Transfer market
    -----------------------

    Player Ps OPr CPr S P F T TPr
    Andrea Mazzantini G 450K 450K 2 0 1
    Tero Suominen RB 160K 180K 3 0 1
    Daniel Snellman CD 100K 85K 3 0 2
    Petteri Viljanen CD 160K 160K 3 0 2
    Tomas Nygard LB 150K 170K 3 0 2
    Arto Halonen RW 160K 180K 3 0 1
    Pat McGinlay CM 450K 500K 3 0 1
    Janne Puputti CM 250K 250K 3 0 1
    Marko Sorvisto CM 180K 190K 3 0 1
    Jarkko Wiss CM 150K 120K 3 0 2
    Ilia Tsymbalar LW 600K 600K 1 0 1
    Jussi Viljanen LW 180K 180K 1 0 1
    Aleksei Yeremenko LW 200K 200K - - 1 * 160K
    Adlane A 180K 150K 3 0 1
    Kimmo Piirainen A 300K 225K 3 0 1
    Vesa Tauriainen A 250K 300K 2 0 1
    Jari Vanhala A 250K 170K 2 0 1

    Ps = Position
    OPr = Original Price when joined the club
    CPr = Current Price
    S = how many times you have been suggested to Sell him (before the
    current choice)
    P = how many of these have been because of bankrupt Panic (before the
    current choice)
    F = how many times you have been suggested to give him a Free transfer
    (before the current choice)
    T = on Transfer market
    TPr = minimum Transfer Price you'll accept

    Bank
    ----

    Old balance 1,347,868
    --------------------------------
    Gate receipts + 82,432
    General running costs - 56,000
    Player sales 0
    Player purchases 0
    Player wages bill - 21,092
    --------------------------------
    Total profit/loss + 5,340
    --------------------------------
    New balance 1,353,208

    Table
    -----

    12 *Jaro*
    --------------
    10 FinnPa
    9 MYPA
    7 Inter Turku
    5 HJK
    4 MP
    4 Ilves
    4 TPS
    3 FC Jazz
    3 Haka
    2 VPS
    2 RoPS

    Season
    ------

    1998/99

    Prem Div = Finnish Premier Division: Apr-Oct, 12 teams, play each team
    x2, 3 points for a win, 3 substitutes from a bench of 5
    Cup = Finnish Cup: May-Jun, 3 rounds, 3 substitutes from a bench of 5, 8
    teams; each round being 1 leg, extra time, penalties

    Prem Div A Jaro 2-0 Haka
    Prem Div H Jaro 3-1 MYPA
    Prem Div H Jaro 2-1 MP
    Prem Div H Jaro 4-0 HJK
    Cup QF H Jaro 5-0 Haka
    Prem Div A Jaro - RoPS
    Prem Div A Jaro - FinnPa
    Cup SF
    Prem Div H Jaro - VPS
    Prem Div A Jaro - Ilves
    Cup F
    Prem Div H Jaro - FC Jazz
    Prem Div A Jaro - TPS
    Prem Div H Jaro - Inter Turku
    Prem Div H Jaro - Haka
    Prem Div A Jaro - MYPA
    Prem Div A Jaro - MP
    Prem Div A Jaro - HJK
    Prem Div H Jaro - RoPS
    Prem Div H Jaro - FinnPa
    Prem Div A Jaro - VPS
    Prem Div H Jaro - Ilves
    Prem Div A Jaro - FC Jazz
    Prem Div H Jaro - TPS
    Prem Div A Jaro - Inter Turku


    Management record
    -----------------

    First stint

    Ssn Club Nat Lvl Pos Cup Int Pl W D L F A Top scorer ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    96/97 Once Lobos SAL 4 11 - - 22 5 8 9 9 17 Welter 5
    97/98 Once Lobos SAL 4 2 - - 22 11 4 7 13 9 Welter 9
    98/99 Once Lobos SAL 4 4 - - 22 10 3 9 15 14 Ruano,Welter 6
    99/00 Once Lobos SAL 4 12 - - 17 3 4 10 10 18 Ruano 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total 83 29 19 35 47 58

    Second stint

    Ssn Club Nat Lvl Pos Cup Int Pl W D L F A Top scorer ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    96/97 Haka FIN 1 11 QF - 17 4 6 7 12 14 Vaisanen 4
    97/98 Jaro FIN 1 5 QF R2 27 11 4 12 47 45 Tauriainen 29
    98/99 Jaro FIN 1 3 SF - 24 13 3 8 48 37 Tauriainen 30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total 68 28 13 27 107 96

    2011/12 will be the last season.

    Full history of choices
    -----------------------

    Courtesy of Futbolmetrix: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jqi4vdpqckhqygo/TheStaffGame_History.xlsx?dl=0

    About the game
    --------------

    You can join the game at any time. Majority chooses (computed when the
    next choice is set up, something that happens at least 23 hours after
    the choice is posted).

    This is a career in Sensible World of Soccer 96/97, a videogame. Prices
    are in pound sterlings.

    Here are the only (as far as I know) variables in SWOS that matter to you:
    - Match: each player acts according to the team's formation [1], to his
    value in each skill [2], and to his natural position [3] (and to home advantage?). By default you know each player's 1st 2nd and 3rd best
    skills, and his price, that is correlated to the sum of the value of all
    his skills [4] (also, if you play a player in position his price could
    go up; if you don't play him, or play him off position, his price could
    go down; his skill values don't change, though).
    - Suspensions and injuries
    - Bank:
    When Money in Money out
    Season begins Competition bonuses
    Sponsorship*
    Each week Gate receipts* General running costs**
    Wages**
    Player sales Player purchases
    * Proportional to results
    ** Proportional to players' prices
    You can buy and sell players all season long. Other teams always play
    with the same XI and don't exchange players with each other.
    [1] List of default formations:
    4-4-2 = 4-1-3-2
    5-4-1 = 5-1-3-1
    4-5-1 = 4-1-4-1
    5-3-2 = 3-2-3-2
    3-5-2 = 3-2-3-2
    4-3-3
    4-2-4 = 4-2-3-1
    3-4-3 = 3-1-3-3
    4-4-2s = S-3-1-3-1 (AKA sweep)
    5-2-3
    3-2-5 = 3-2-3-2 (AKA attack)
    6-3-1 = 6-2-1-1 (AKA defend)
    All with RB and LB, and (the only exception being "defend") RW and LW
    (as forwards if there are just 2 midfielders, otherwise as midfielders).
    [2] List of skills: ball control, finishing inside the penalty box,
    heading, passing, speed, tackling, shot velocity from outside the
    penalty box. A player's value in each of these skills can be 0 to 7. Goalkeepers only have a goalkeeping skill that can be 0 to 48; only
    goalkeepers have this skill.
    [3] List of positions: G, RB, D, LB, RW, M, LW, A.
    [4] Price = Sum of skill points:
    25K 1 (or 0) | 350K 17 | 1.80M 33
    30K 2 | 450K 18 | 1.90M 34
    40K 3 | 500K 19 | 2.00M 35
    50K 4 | 550K 20 | 2.25M 36
    65K 5 | 600K 21 | 2.75M 37
    75K 6 | 650K 22 | 3.00M 38
    85K 7 | 700K 23 | 3.50M 39
    100K 8 | 750K 24 | 4.50M 40
    110K 9 | 800K 25 | 5.00M 41
    130K 10 | 850K 26 | 6.00M 42
    150K 11 | 950K 27 | 7.00M 43
    160K 12 | 1.00M 28 | 8.00M 44
    180K 13 | 1.10M 29 | 9.00M 45
    200K 14 | 1.30M 30 | 10M 46
    250K 15 | 1.50M 31 | 12M 47
    300K 16 | 1.60M 32 | 15M 48 (or 49)

    Staff personalities
    Male (+ Aggie) = maximizers:
    - Aggie the Agnostic: doesn't want to change anything
    - Ben the Basic: only looks at skills:
    - S + T + (C or H or P) = defender
    - P + T + (C or S) = defensive midfielder
    - P + (any combination of C, S, V) = attacking midfielder
    - S + (F or V) + (C or H) = attacker
    - S + F + V = attacker
    - Dan the Dazzled: only looks at prices
    - Fred the Frugal: wants to save money
    - Noah the Netter: thinks that it's all a matter of scoring and not
    being scored against
    - Ollie the Opponent: only looks at opponents
    - Pat the Paranoid: is scared of injuries and suspensions
    - Scott the Scout: tries to find new talents
    - Will the Watcher: only looks at stats
    Female = helpers:
    - Evelyn the Evaluator: gives skill reports
    - Helen the Healer: heals injured players
    - Marika the Marketer: finds money
    - Trish the Trainer: improves players

    --
    Cheers
    milivella

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Futbolmetrix@21:1/5 to milivella on Wed Aug 2 14:03:01 2023
    On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:54:01 PM UTC-4, milivella wrote:
    What happened
    =============

    The Finnish Cup quarter-finals started.

    Didn't even remember that this was a Cup match.


    Your match was at home against Haka. Their XI was:
    Jaro - Haka
    51' 1-0 Tauriainen
    62' 2-0 Tauriainen
    68' 3-0 Tauriainen
    72' 4-0 Tauriainen
    78' 5-0 Piirainen

    Makes this even sweeter.



    J H
    Possession 53% 47%
    Goal attempts 15 10
    On target 13 7

    Seven saves by Mazzantini!


    The semi-finals will be:
    Ilves - Jaro
    TPS - MYPA

    We are going to Helsinki!




    Also notice that:
    - Halonen got a knock.

    What else did you expect from those Haka butchers?



    - Halonen's price has gone up from 170K to 180K.

    Well deserved!

    A. Aggie the Agnostic: "Do. Not. Touch. Anything."

    Given that I have completely forgotten all the elaborate strategies that we had developed back in the day, I am tempted.


    B. Ben the Basic: "Make an offer to FinnPa for Jari Hudd: nominally a
    right back, but generally a good defender, with his
    tackling>speed>passing skills. He's worth 350K."

    One thing I do remember: Ben's suggestions were always boneheaded (even though now I seem to remember that there was a way to exploit Ben's boneheadedness...)


    D. Dan the Dazzled: "Make an offer to Brondby for Kim Daugaard. He's
    worth 350K! Oh, by the way, he is a right wing good at heading>finishing>ball-control."

    Hmm... I like Halonen, but he is our only RW.



    E. Evelyn the Evaluator: "I'll give you the complete skill report of a player (in your squad, or on the market) of your choice. You'll have to
    skip the next market round (in addition to the current one), though.
    Then you'll be given the chance to put that player on the market (if in
    your squad) or to make an offer for him (if he is on the market now)."

    Not something we would use now, but thanks anyway, Evelyn.


    F. Fred the Frugal: "You will never not play Tsymbalar. Put Jussi
    Viljanen on the market!" (Will the Watcher: "...He adds literally
    nothing to the team!"

    That's not true, Will, he has one of our best +/- stats


    H. Helen the Healer: "I'll reduce Vanhala's injury by 1 match. You skip
    the next 2 market rounds (in addition to the current one), though. Or
    I'll heal Halonen, and you'll skip just the next round (in addition to
    the current one)."

    We coped without Vanhala well enough against Haka...


    M. Marika the Marketer: "I'll give an additional 403,474 pounds (20% of
    your budget at the beginning of the season). You'll have to skip the
    next 3 market rounds (in addition to the current one), though."

    Maybe. Get some more cash as we relearn how to play the game?


    N. Noah the Netter: "OK, Da Bull this and Da Bull that, but we can get better forwards! Make an offer to FSW Zwickau for Jacek Mencel. An
    attacker (of course) worth 300K. Skills: finishing(!)>heading>shot-power."

    We. Do. Not. Touch. Da. Bull. Go away, Noah.


    P. Pat the Paranoid: "What madman keeps only two central defenders in
    his squad?! Make an offer to VPS for Harri Kevari. For just 110K, you
    will get a player competent at heading>tackling>shot-power."

    Pat, you are paranoid

    S. Scott the Scout: "Halonen is overvalued by the market. Unload him! [= give him a free transfer]"

    How does that help anything?



    T. Trish the Trainer: "I'll improve a player of your choice by 1 point
    out of 7 (if goalkeeping: out of 47, and that will make his price
    higher) in a skill of your choice. You'll skip the next 3 or 4 (random choice; if goalkeeping, 3) market rounds (in addition to the current
    one), though."

    Not before Evelyn gives us a report.

    I am undecided between Aggie, Dan and Marika.


    Squad - Skills and performance
    ------------------------------

    Player I S Ps B OPr Sm PVHTCSF Skl Nat M G +- Avg+-
    Mazzantini G 450K 18 0000000 - ITA 17 0 +30 +1.76

    Wait, Mazzantini has already played 17 matches for us? Not a bad +/-

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)