I notice that the October 2020 congress proposed a few changes to the rules. One that caught my eye possible because it is rule one and I did read that far was the deletion of the word "Displacement" in the definition of rowing, so rule 1 now reads asbelow. Does this matter, why the proposed change?
Rowing is the propulsion of a boat, with or
without coxswain, by the muscular force of one or more
rowers, using oars as simple levers of the second order and
sitting with their backs to the direction of movement of the boat.
Rowing on a machine or in a tank which simulates the action of
rowing in a boat is also considered as rowing.
A rowing regatta is a sporting competition consisting of one or
more events divided, if necessary, into a number of races, in
one or more classes of boats for rowers divided, as a general
rule, into different categories of gender, age or weight.
On 10/12/2020 21:07, RS wrote:as below. Does this matter, why the proposed change?
I notice that the October 2020 congress proposed a few changes to the rules. One that caught my eye possible because it is rule one and I did read that far was the deletion of the word "Displacement" in the definition of rowing, so rule 1 now reads
I guess that's my point, why remove the word "displacement" unless you want to open rowing up to other forms of hull?Rowing is the propulsion of a boat, with or
without coxswain, by the muscular force of one or more
rowers, using oars as simple levers of the second order and
sitting with their backs to the direction of movement of the boat.
Rowing on a machine or in a tank which simulates the action of
rowing in a boat is also considered as rowing.
A rowing regatta is a sporting competition consisting of one or
more events divided, if necessary, into a number of races, in
one or more classes of boats for rowers divided, as a general
rule, into different categories of gender, age or weight.
So let's go hydrofoiling?
And is an oar really a "simple 2nd-order lever", since it's supposed
pivot point or fulcrum moves in & through the water such an obvious loop
& has a centre of effort whose location on the blade constantly varies?
Cheers -
Carl
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Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
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Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75 are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
KitPerhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here: http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one
of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight): http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak: http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
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On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website. >>>> IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here:
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a
pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one
of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under
reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the
intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by
bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil. >>
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
Good to hear we will retain our displacement boats.has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed is a cyclic
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it again. It
RS
On 17/12/2020 20:29, RS wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul >>>> Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website. >>>> IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75 >>>> are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next >>>> generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF >>>> FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth >>>> looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not >>> sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here:
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a >> pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one >> of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under >> reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the
intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by >> bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
It has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed is aGood to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it again.
Carl,RS
Mmm. While the rowing stroke involves a foiling process, it is defined
by the use of oars. An oscillating foil (per AquaSkipper & Trampofoil)
is a perfectly viable propulsor - & is enduringly popular among fish and cetaceans - but I've yet to see a system of that kind that would be sufficiently similar to rowing, or as effective, to be accepted by rowers.
Coracles, of course, are propelled by a (laterally) oscillating action
with a paddle, & the single oar "sculling over the stern" method is
handy with dinghies.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
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On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 20:29, RS wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono >> around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing & >> you can read about him here:
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul >>>> Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an >>>> exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75 >>>> are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling >>>> rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next >>>> generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF >>>> FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth >>>> looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a
pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one >> of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under >> reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the
intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the >> needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than >> any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/ >> also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by >> bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
It has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed is aGood to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it again.
a significant margin. I have used one and they are very fast and efficient. Certainly not to the effect of an oar but far more than a paddle.RS
Mmm. While the rowing stroke involves a foiling process, it is defined
by the use of oars. An oscillating foil (per AquaSkipper & Trampofoil)
is a perfectly viable propulsor - & is enduringly popular among fish and cetaceans - but I've yet to see a system of that kind that would be sufficiently similar to rowing, or as effective, to be accepted by rowers.
Coracles, of course, are propelled by a (laterally) oscillating action with a paddle, & the single oar "sculling over the stern" method is
handy with dinghies.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
---Carl,
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I would think the Hobie Mirage drive system might come close. See https://www.hobie.com/miragedrive/ for how it works. I recall about 20 years ago when they introduced it they had tug-a-wars between paddled and peddled boats with the latter winning by
For what little it might be worth,In the Town where I grew up (Gosport in Hampshire) there are two small roads in a quiet neighbourhood one called Rattler Road and one called Alecto Road, they commemorate a similar tug of war to prove a point 150+ years ago, on a slightly bigger scale.
don Vickers
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:07:38 PM UTC-5, don Vickers wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 20:29, RS wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono >> around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing & >> you can read about him here:
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul >>>> Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an >>>> exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling >>>> rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a
pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one
of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under
reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the >> intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark >> Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/ >> also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by
bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as >> simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows) >> Cheers -
Carl
again. It has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed isGood to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it
by a significant margin. I have used one and they are very fast and efficient. Certainly not to the effect of an oar but far more than a paddle.RS
Mmm. While the rowing stroke involves a foiling process, it is defined by the use of oars. An oscillating foil (per AquaSkipper & Trampofoil) is a perfectly viable propulsor - & is enduringly popular among fish and cetaceans - but I've yet to see a system of that kind that would be sufficiently similar to rowing, or as effective, to be accepted by rowers.
Coracles, of course, are propelled by a (laterally) oscillating action with a paddle, & the single oar "sculling over the stern" method is handy with dinghies.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
---Carl,
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
I would think the Hobie Mirage drive system might come close. See https://www.hobie.com/miragedrive/ for how it works. I recall about 20 years ago when they introduced it they had tug-a-wars between paddled and peddled boats with the latter winning
For what little it might be worth,In the Town where I grew up (Gosport in Hampshire) there are two small roads in a quiet neighbourhood one called Rattler Road and one called Alecto Road, they commemorate a similar tug of war to prove a point 150+ years ago, on a slightly bigger scale.
don Vickers
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 9:28:34 PM UTC, RS wrote:
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:07:38 PM UTC-5, don Vickers wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 11:29:34 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 20:29, RS wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition. >>>> We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an >>>> exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here:
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a
pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams, >> split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one
of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under
reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag >> penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the
intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but >> sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by
bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
again. It has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed isGood to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it
by a significant margin. I have used one and they are very fast and efficient. Certainly not to the effect of an oar but far more than a paddle.RS
Mmm. While the rowing stroke involves a foiling process, it is defined by the use of oars. An oscillating foil (per AquaSkipper & Trampofoil) is a perfectly viable propulsor - & is enduringly popular among fish and
cetaceans - but I've yet to see a system of that kind that would be sufficiently similar to rowing, or as effective, to be accepted by rowers.
Coracles, of course, are propelled by a (laterally) oscillating action with a paddle, & the single oar "sculling over the stern" method is handy with dinghies.
Cheers -
Carl
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I would think the Hobie Mirage drive system might come close. See https://www.hobie.com/miragedrive/ for how it works. I recall about 20 years ago when they introduced it they had tug-a-wars between paddled and peddled boats with the latter winning
scale.For what little it might be worth,In the Town where I grew up (Gosport in Hampshire) there are two small roads in a quiet neighbourhood one called Rattler Road and one called Alecto Road, they commemorate a similar tug of war to prove a point 150+ years ago, on a slightly bigger
don Vickers
In the town where I am struggling to grow up (Hamble in Hampshire) there is a loft full of random, but interesting nautical bits and pieces, including, but not limited to a 15 year old Aquaskipper.to the edge, swimming with the partially submerged aluminium climbing frame (which hopefully hasn't snapped this time) and find a handy dock (of precisely the right height, give or take a couple of inches) to relaunch from. I have had plans for it for
As Roger points out, although a bit of fun on a sunny day, it is of little use as it is as a viable recreation/ training device due to its impossibility of relaunching from deep water. After every dismount (of which there are many), one has to splutter
Once on foil it would not be solely propelled by the oars though. Because it normally gets its propulsion from describing a whales tail type oscillation up and down a few inches in the water (by rhyhmically weighting and unweighting the main foil), alot of the usually unwanted, waste pitch motion of a normal, (displacement) rowing shell could be captured and used for forward propulsion! It would be the first rowing boat that would actively reward rushing the slide! Once the boat is on the foils it
The technology partially exhibited by the Aquaskipper has enormous potential as far as I'm concerned. The clever bit is the Shutt Strut at the front (Designed a long time ago by Sidney? Shutt of MIT/ NASA if memory serves me). It is a surface running (planing) shoe on a rigid linkage to a front foil. I've played with it a lot off the side of moving boats. You can submerge this part and pull it through the water and observe the results. If you ballast and buoy the shaft correctly (it isn't as standard
It's also the reason why (And CDRS might or might not know this), that if you pull a guy (or girl!) on an Aquaskipper with, say a motorboat, and he has some basic waterskiiing/ starting skills, the thing will pop up with him, even with his lapful ofdrag onto full foil at about 8 mph. It's not a pleasant or very long-lasting waterskiing experience (all flat, high aspect foils lean the 'wrong ' way on turns), but proves a point. You can also surf on one on small waves, glide a surprisingly long way
The Air Chair (a waterskiiing foil device) was a watersports dead end back in the 80s, but look at how a few minor tweaks and more cheaply available carbon fibre 20 years later have brought foiling everythings.efficient, glider type foil that with a vast expenditure of energy a world class athlete can get up on for a few seconds (Youtube Austin Kalama or Kai Lenny's flat water surf foil exploits- or the oft cited Flyak- a K1 on foils). But the problem with
As far as human powered foling craft are concerned, my view is YES, YES YES! But with a big 'but'. The amount of power needed to get (large slow speed, high aspect) foils foiling is very high, but once up, much much lower. You can use a smaller, less
But add a small motor and battery... And even better a high aspect prop on a shaft that can be lifted out of the water with a quick tug on a string once you're foiling. The 1800W (peak) brushless motor in my ebike is smaller than a can of beans and notmuch heavier. The battery would only need a few minutes run time so the small LIpo RC stuff would cover this. I reckon I could make the battery, shaft, prop, motor and lifting mechanism 4kgs total, and that's with my dubious engineering skills and 12
There's a New Zealand company that's now building a foiling pedal bike with battery assist, so other people are thinking along the same lines- although I don't think it takes its prop/ motor out of the water once its finished with it, which is prettycritical, in fact I think it's permament pedal assist, I suspect the motor may have been added to the design when the makers realised that only Mark Cavendish and three of his mates had the necessary power to weight ratios to make it viable.
But this is where water exercise is going in my view. Look at EMTBs. They are taking over the sport of mountainbiking so fast. They take very little away from the experience, but bring so much to it. People who say it is lazy, have, almost withoutexception, not tried it. All moutainbiking really has to promote the takeup of motors is the uphill bits. Human powered boats have this massive 'uphill' called planing or foiling that once overcome means lovely. fast, efficient progress and smiles all
I can give a more direct analogy. There is a deep shingle beach here at Hamble, like 6 inches deep in many places. On a normal MTB, I can, with massive effort do about 8 mph in a low gear, out of the saddle, sprinting, wheelspinning, a broken man forabout half a minute on this stuff. On my EMTB I give it full throttle for a few seconds, get it up to about 18mph, whereupon it effectively planes on top of the shingle, Its a bit squirrelly and takes some getting used to, and 25mph feels suicidal, but I
Bringing this back (slightly) towards the OP there will always be elite sport (There won't be battery assist anything at the Olympics any time soon), but on our rivers and waterways some level of electrification to enable sustainable foiling underhuman power must be coming, even if I have to do it myself! Bring it on I say!
I could write you another few thousand words (but won't today) on the Hobie Mirage Drive also mentioned above and my experiments with that (Greg Ketterman, who designed it is another one on my list of small craft design unsung heros). Google 'HobieTrifoiler' if you want to see what a product 30 years+ ahead of its time looks like! I think he sold about 3 of them, but wow, what a thing!
A few years ago I aquired a £30 (shoulders delaminated scrap) Burger Shed from someone on here or the rowing Service and glassed a Mirage drive into it to see where it might go. Next stage in that project is lifting the amas an inch or two above thewater and foil stabilising them and refining, testing the mechanism of handles via turning blocks at the bow, but I keep getting diverted with other projects. It's impressively quick, and the sensation quite pleasing. You pull on the left handle as you
of its first test run before I added the 'kinky boots' mechanism.
So many projects, but so little time...
Happy New Year by the way Rog.
Nice video! But the concept of canoes flying around at insane speeds mixing with stiff necked rowers paddling along sedately and oblivious to their oncoming doom is a bit frightening. Still, 2020 was the summer of learning how to row among highdensities of standup paddle boards, so we should find adding another hazard to the mix simplicity itself.
Andy
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