Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
Marc -
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is
that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than "surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto "official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it
seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived?
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the
sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety
& release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &,
I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back & drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held
under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while
the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped
off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be
undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning.
It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of
the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information
on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance
rowing safety.
Carl
--
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Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
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Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
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Carlsaw him capsize and responded immediately, reaching his boat in less than a minute.
All points well taken.
“surrounded” is my word and should be replaced. My understanding is that it was a training accident before the regatta, but that there were several rescue boats in the immediate vicinity, including one with a dive team, and that at least one boat
You're absolutely right about the overuse and now diluted term “professional.” As a volunteer fire-fighter I’ve listened to too many defenses of volunteers as professionals – professional now referring simply to anyone who is supposed to adhereto standards. I also sat through a discussion with people offended by my reference to protecting “children” learning to row. Twelve-year-olds learning to row – I was informed – shouldn’t be referred to as children. They’re young athletes.
I had read about the missing bolts and appreciate your note regarding possible mechanical failure of stainless bolts from repeated overtightening. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been guilty of that, particularly working with silicon brassscrews on old boats.
If anyone is aware of a video or hears of the release of an official report I hope you’ll pass the information along.Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.
Marc
ps: laziness, procrastination, and indifference should not be confused with legitimate procedures. There is no excuse for an accident report such as this not having already been released to the public.
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:17:24 PM UTC-4, carl wrote:
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
Marc -
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is
that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than "surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto "official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it
seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived?
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the
sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety
& release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &,
I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back & drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held
under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning. It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of
the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information
on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance rowing safety.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
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On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 15:38:50 UTC+1, Marc Messing wrote:saw him capsize and responded immediately, reaching his boat in less than a minute.
Carl
All points well taken.
“surrounded” is my word and should be replaced. My understanding is that it was a training accident before the regatta, but that there were several rescue boats in the immediate vicinity, including one with a dive team, and that at least one boat
adhere to standards. I also sat through a discussion with people offended by my reference to protecting “children” learning to row. Twelve-year-olds learning to row – I was informed – shouldn’t be referred to as children. They’re young
You're absolutely right about the overuse and now diluted term “professional.” As a volunteer fire-fighter I’ve listened to too many defenses of volunteers as professionals – professional now referring simply to anyone who is supposed to
screws on old boats.
I had read about the missing bolts and appreciate your note regarding possible mechanical failure of stainless bolts from repeated overtightening. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been guilty of that, particularly working with silicon brass
Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.
If anyone is aware of a video or hears of the release of an official report I hope you’ll pass the information along.
Marc
ps: laziness, procrastination, and indifference should not be confused with legitimate procedures. There is no excuse for an accident report such as this not having already been released to the public.
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:17:24 PM UTC-4, carl wrote:
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
Marc -
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is
that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than
"surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto >>> "official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it
seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep
expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived? >>>
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the
sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety
& release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &,
I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back &
drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held
under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull >>> were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while >>> the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped
off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side
allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be
undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning. >>> It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of
the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the
wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than
high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information
on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance
rowing safety.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
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I know nothing about the incident, but drove 'rescue' launches on the lake for the Rio Olympics and was a bit dumfounded at how little prep we were given on how to rescue the rowers.
On board was me (a volunteer driver - RYA level 2 qualified - but I normally drive a tin fish with a 15HP outboard - I was driving an ocean going navy inflatable with twin 60hp outboards! (on race days I had a Cat with an official on board)
Because it was a navy boat there was a navy person - but not qualified to drive such a craft, and there was a fire person, who was familiar with saving lives, but not from the water.
None of us in life jackets.
I asked for training in recovery of a rower and it was not forthcoming - so asked my other pilot colleagues and got some vague tips.
The routine would be for the fire person to jump overboard and attempt to rescue - but they had never seen a rowing boat before, and knew nothing of shoes and release.
We had not even discussed the sequence - would they give mtm in the water, or would we try to retrieve the rower and then mtm etc.
The ambulance was on the hard at the finish line - so some 2K away in some instances.
I am someone who like to rehearse scenarios, but no such luck :(
Oh, and I was the only english speaker on board!
I think it is one of the rare instances I know of where being surrounded by potential rescuers could be more hazardous than not. (Because everyone thinks it would be OK).
We have more trained defib users in my club and 2 defibs than on an Olympic venue.
On 15/06/2021 21:29, James HS wrote:boat saw him capsize and responded immediately, reaching his boat in less than a minute.
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 15:38:50 UTC+1, Marc Messing wrote:
Carl
All points well taken.
“surrounded” is my word and should be replaced. My understanding is that it was a training accident before the regatta, but that there were several rescue boats in the immediate vicinity, including one with a dive team, and that at least one
adhere to standards. I also sat through a discussion with people offended by my reference to protecting “children” learning to row. Twelve-year-olds learning to row – I was informed – shouldn’t be referred to as children. They’re young
You're absolutely right about the overuse and now diluted term “professional.” As a volunteer fire-fighter I’ve listened to too many defenses of volunteers as professionals – professional now referring simply to anyone who is supposed to
brass screws on old boats.
I had read about the missing bolts and appreciate your note regarding possible mechanical failure of stainless bolts from repeated overtightening. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been guilty of that, particularly working with silicon
Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.
If anyone is aware of a video or hears of the release of an official report I hope you’ll pass the information along.
Marc
ps: laziness, procrastination, and indifference should not be confused with legitimate procedures. There is no excuse for an accident report such as this not having already been released to the public.
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:17:24 PM UTC-4, carl wrote:
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
Marc -
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is
that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than
"surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto >>> "official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it
seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep >>> expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived?
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the
sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety >>> & release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &, >>> I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back & >>> drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held
under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull >>> were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while >>> the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped >>> off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side >>> allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be
undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning. >>> It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of >>> the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the >>> wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than
high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information >>> on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance
rowing safety.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 >>> URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells >>>
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I know nothing about the incident, but drove 'rescue' launches on the lake for the Rio Olympics and was a bit dumfounded at how little prep we were given on how to rescue the rowers.
On board was me (a volunteer driver - RYA level 2 qualified - but I normally drive a tin fish with a 15HP outboard - I was driving an ocean going navy inflatable with twin 60hp outboards! (on race days I had a Cat with an official on board)
Because it was a navy boat there was a navy person - but not qualified to drive such a craft, and there was a fire person, who was familiar with saving lives, but not from the water.
None of us in life jackets.
I asked for training in recovery of a rower and it was not forthcoming - so asked my other pilot colleagues and got some vague tips.
The routine would be for the fire person to jump overboard and attempt to rescue - but they had never seen a rowing boat before, and knew nothing of shoes and release.
We had not even discussed the sequence - would they give mtm in the water, or would we try to retrieve the rower and then mtm etc.
The ambulance was on the hard at the finish line - so some 2K away in some instances.
I am someone who like to rehearse scenarios, but no such luck :(
Oh, and I was the only english speaker on board!
I think it is one of the rare instances I know of where being surrounded by potential rescuers could be more hazardous than not. (Because everyone thinks it would be OK).
We have more trained defib users in my club and 2 defibs than on an Olympic venue.
James -
Another "professional" rescue which, fortunately, didn't have to happen. That's a hair-raising account, James, although your expertise would doubtless have been beneficial in an emergency. What were FISA doing to ensure rower safety while this was going on, & if not, why not?
I'm reminded of the fiasco, still disguised to save official
embarrassment, of the botched rescue of the capsized German pair at
Dorney 2006 - blamed not on the fumbling by the rescuers, who thought
they had to undo gates to get inverted rowers, trapped by their feet (over-long or absent heel cords, I heard), from underneath the boat. It
was claimed that the oar handles were holding them upside-down in the
boat - explain how that could possibly have been the case, unless the
launch were sitting on the outboard end of the oar - and then argued
that it was really the fault of a well-known make of oarlock with which
the rescuers were somehow unfamiliar.
An example, fortunately non-fatal, of how rescues can go horribly wrong
for lack of savvy.
Marc -
I'd expect that, if there was any video footage from Austria, it would
have been impounded for the investigation. In some cases of this kind
it can be more about laboriously finding someone to blame rather than
saving repeats meanwhile.
For reference, look up Grenfell Tower Fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower
Although this catastrophe happened 4 years ago, almost to the day, the enquiry plods on &still nothing has been done to ensure that people do
not have to live in such combustible tower blocks. Presently, the state
is happy to face tenants & home owners with impossible bills to rectify fundamental constructional errors which were in no way their faults, and meanwhile there have been other, but non-fatal, fires in similar buildings. Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 15:38:50 UTC+1, Marc Messing wrote:saw him capsize and responded immediately, reaching his boat in less than a minute.
Carl
All points well taken.
“surrounded” is my word and should be replaced. My understanding is that it was a training accident before the regatta, but that there were several rescue boats in the immediate vicinity, including one with a dive team, and that at least one boat
adhere to standards. I also sat through a discussion with people offended by my reference to protecting “children” learning to row. Twelve-year-olds learning to row – I was informed – shouldn’t be referred to as children. They’re youngYou're absolutely right about the overuse and now diluted term “professional.” As a volunteer fire-fighter I’ve listened to too many defenses of volunteers as professionals – professional now referring simply to anyone who is supposed to
screws on old boats.I had read about the missing bolts and appreciate your note regarding possible mechanical failure of stainless bolts from repeated overtightening. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been guilty of that, particularly working with silicon brass
Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.If anyone is aware of a video or hears of the release of an official report I hope you’ll pass the information along.
Marc
ps: laziness, procrastination, and indifference should not be confused with legitimate procedures. There is no excuse for an accident report such as this not having already been released to the public.
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:17:24 PM UTC-4, carl wrote:
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
I routinely drive launches and safety boats at the regattas in Sarasota, Florida. Driving at this venue requires the Florida Boating License but I have never had to show mine. Only the world championship regatta required proof of driving competence.Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
Marc -
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is
that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than "surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto "official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived?
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety & release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &,
I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back & drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning. It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance rowing safety.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
I know nothing about the incident, but drove 'rescue' launches on the lake for the Rio Olympics and was a bit dumfounded at how little prep we were given on how to rescue the rowers.---
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On board was me (a volunteer driver - RYA level 2 qualified - but I normally drive a tin fish with a 15HP outboard - I was driving an ocean going navy inflatable with twin 60hp outboards! (on race days I had a Cat with an official on board)
Because it was a navy boat there was a navy person - but not qualified to drive such a craft, and there was a fire person, who was familiar with saving lives, but not from the water.
None of us in life jackets.
I asked for training in recovery of a rower and it was not forthcoming - so asked my other pilot colleagues and got some vague tips.
The routine would be for the fire person to jump overboard and attempt to rescue - but they had never seen a rowing boat before, and knew nothing of shoes and release.
We had not even discussed the sequence - would they give mtm in the water, or would we try to retrieve the rower and then mtm etc.
The ambulance was on the hard at the finish line - so some 2K away in some instances.
I am someone who like to rehearse scenarios, but no such luck :(
Oh, and I was the only english speaker on board!
I think it is one of the rare instances I know of where being surrounded by potential rescuers could be more hazardous than not. (Because everyone thinks it would be OK).
We have more trained defib users in my club and 2 defibs than on an Olympic venue.
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 15:38:50 UTC+1, Marc Messing wrote:saw him capsize and responded immediately, reaching his boat in less than a minute.
Carl
All points well taken.
“surrounded” is my word and should be replaced. My understanding is that it was a training accident before the regatta, but that there were several rescue boats in the immediate vicinity, including one with a dive team, and that at least one boat
adhere to standards. I also sat through a discussion with people offended by my reference to protecting “children” learning to row. Twelve-year-olds learning to row – I was informed – shouldn’t be referred to as children. They’re youngYou're absolutely right about the overuse and now diluted term “professional.” As a volunteer fire-fighter I’ve listened to too many defenses of volunteers as professionals – professional now referring simply to anyone who is supposed to
screws on old boats.I had read about the missing bolts and appreciate your note regarding possible mechanical failure of stainless bolts from repeated overtightening. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been guilty of that, particularly working with silicon brass
Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.If anyone is aware of a video or hears of the release of an official report I hope you’ll pass the information along.
Marc
ps: laziness, procrastination, and indifference should not be confused with legitimate procedures. There is no excuse for an accident report such as this not having already been released to the public.
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:17:24 PM UTC-4, carl wrote:
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR says
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
Marc -
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is
that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than "surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto "official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived?
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety & release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &,
I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back & drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning. It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance rowing safety.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
I know nothing about the incident, but drove 'rescue' launches on the lake for the Rio Olympics and was a bit dumfounded at how little prep we were given on how to rescue the rowers.---
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On board was me (a volunteer driver - RYA level 2 qualified - but I normally drive a tin fish with a 15HP outboard - I was driving an ocean going navy inflatable with twin 60hp outboards! (on race days I had a Cat with an official on board)
Because it was a navy boat there was a navy person - but not qualified to drive such a craft, and there was a fire person, who was familiar with saving lives, but not from the water.
None of us in life jackets.
I asked for training in recovery of a rower and it was not forthcoming - so asked my other pilot colleagues and got some vague tips.
The routine would be for the fire person to jump overboard and attempt to rescue - but they had never seen a rowing boat before, and knew nothing of shoes and release.
We had not even discussed the sequence - would they give mtm in the water, or would we try to retrieve the rower and then mtm etc.
The ambulance was on the hard at the finish line - so some 2K away in some instances.
I am someone who like to rehearse scenarios, but no such luck :(
Oh, and I was the only english speaker on board!
I think it is one of the rare instances I know of where being surrounded by potential rescuers could be more hazardous than not. (Because everyone thinks it would be OK).
We have more trained defib users in my club and 2 defibs than on an Olympic venue.
James --boat saw him capsize and responded immediately, reaching his boat in less than a minute.
WOW.
Please let me know if you have any reservations about my using that information in the future (or have more information you'd like to share).
I've taken swift water and open water rescue training as a volunteer fire-fighter and aside from the fact that it was a lot of fun, I was struck by how difficult it could be just to pull a victim into a boat under controlled conditions.
It is astounding that the there isn't more serious preparation and training for water rescue at the Olympics level.
Marc
Ma...@RowSafeUSA.Org
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 4:29:34 PM UTC-4, James HS wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 15:38:50 UTC+1, Marc Messing wrote:
Carl
All points well taken.
“surrounded” is my word and should be replaced. My understanding is that it was a training accident before the regatta, but that there were several rescue boats in the immediate vicinity, including one with a dive team, and that at least one
adhere to standards. I also sat through a discussion with people offended by my reference to protecting “children” learning to row. Twelve-year-olds learning to row – I was informed – shouldn’t be referred to as children. They’re youngYou're absolutely right about the overuse and now diluted term “professional.” As a volunteer fire-fighter I’ve listened to too many defenses of volunteers as professionals – professional now referring simply to anyone who is supposed to
brass screws on old boats.I had read about the missing bolts and appreciate your note regarding possible mechanical failure of stainless bolts from repeated overtightening. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been guilty of that, particularly working with silicon
says Austrian officials are responsible for the delay.If anyone is aware of a video or hears of the release of an official report I hope you’ll pass the information along.
Marc
ps: laziness, procrastination, and indifference should not be confused with legitimate procedures. There is no excuse for an accident report such as this not having already been released to the public.
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:17:24 PM UTC-4, carl wrote:
On 11/06/2021 16:18, Marc Messing wrote:
Does anyone have video of the Dzmitry Ryshkevich accident.
While talking with someone about the incident I mentioned that he was surrounded by professional rescue personnel at the time of the accident but that -- as far as I can determine -- no official reports of the accident have been released. WR
Is anyone aware of any videos or credible information beyond the initial news reports and condolences?
Marc
Marc -
This was a training accident, before the regatta. My information is that Dzimitry was at some distance from any rescue boat, rather than "surrounded".
I question the much over-used term "professional", routinely bolted onto
"official" comments in almost every unfortunate situation to make it seem that whatever then happens was done with skilled planning & deep expertise. Had it been that professional, wouldn't Dzimitry have survived?
That something breaks on an adaptively-rigged boat, capsizing the sculler and trapping him, is a poor start, suggesting inadequate safety
& release equipment in the boat. To then be submerged for some time &, I understand, to get just his head to the surface, only to slip back & drown, suggests that he may still have been trapped & had been held under for far too long.
That the bolts holding one side of the rigger/pontoon system to the hull
were missing (I understand), with that side of the boat undamaged, while
the lip on the other side of the boat was apparently twisted and ripped
off, strongly suggests that complete failure of 2 bolts on the one side
allowed the boat to roll over. The actual failure mode may be undiscoverable if those bolts remain on the lake bed, but is concerning.
It suggests a metal fatigue failure, from repeated over-tightening of the missing bolts. Over-tightening of M6 stainless bolts, because the wrenches allow this even though stainless bolts are far softer than high-tensile steel, is what we rowers like to do!
To be almost 2 years down the road, leaving rowers without information on which to act, may satisfy "procedure" but hardly helps to advance rowing safety.
Carl
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I know nothing about the incident, but drove 'rescue' launches on the lake for the Rio Olympics and was a bit dumfounded at how little prep we were given on how to rescue the rowers.---
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On board was me (a volunteer driver - RYA level 2 qualified - but I normally drive a tin fish with a 15HP outboard - I was driving an ocean going navy inflatable with twin 60hp outboards! (on race days I had a Cat with an official on board)
Because it was a navy boat there was a navy person - but not qualified to drive such a craft, and there was a fire person, who was familiar with saving lives, but not from the water.
None of us in life jackets.
I asked for training in recovery of a rower and it was not forthcoming - so asked my other pilot colleagues and got some vague tips.
The routine would be for the fire person to jump overboard and attempt to rescue - but they had never seen a rowing boat before, and knew nothing of shoes and release.
We had not even discussed the sequence - would they give mtm in the water, or would we try to retrieve the rower and then mtm etc.
The ambulance was on the hard at the finish line - so some 2K away in some instances.
I am someone who like to rehearse scenarios, but no such luck :(
Oh, and I was the only english speaker on board!
I think it is one of the rare instances I know of where being surrounded by potential rescuers could be more hazardous than not. (Because everyone thinks it would be OK).
We have more trained defib users in my club and 2 defibs than on an Olympic venue.
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