• Rowing Shoe Holes - building a database?

    From Jonny@21:1/5 to carl on Thu Dec 3 06:31:19 2020
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2020 at 6:40:33 PM UTC, carl wrote:
    On 01/12/2020 21:52, Richard wrote:
    On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 20:30:46 UTC, Phil wrote:

    Clogs are the way forward, for all sorts of reasons!

    Couldn't agree more! Why don't more clubs / rowers / boat-builders consider this simple, safe and inexpensive option? Forget old-fashioned leather clogs with brass or plastic heel cups - surely modern materials lend themselves to a solution that
    provides adequate support while rowing, yet enables more or less instant release in the event of a capsize. Or have we become totally fixated on fitted shoes being the only possible solution?

    I, too regret the passing of clogs! But back to shoes:

    I understand the concern over shoe bolt positions, but any reputable
    shoe supplier provides, as we always have at CDRS, a template precisely defining shoe-bolt positions.


    I think the market has spoken about the clog issue in racing boats!

    The problem I face often eludes Carl's answer. Even his company has changed shoe supplier over the years so a footplate in a 30 year old CD scull can be a hassle with new shoes! Many old footplates actually only have 3 holes drilled or only 3 bolts
    installed! I have even faced the issue of a rower having a preference for a different shoe to the one that actually fits the boat.

    Quite a few shoe makers are actually unable to provide a drawing or details of the hole pattern when asked! I know - I've asked.

    Separate shoe plates (from the footboard) can be one way to solve some of the issues, but even that isn't universal to all boat types and has drawbacks of it's own.

    I've started by taking pencil rubbings from the bottom of the shoes I have in the workshop (no flat bed copier there) that look pretty accurate.

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  • From carl@21:1/5 to Jonny on Thu Dec 3 16:38:55 2020
    On 03/12/2020 14:31, Jonny wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2020 at 6:40:33 PM UTC, carl wrote:
    On 01/12/2020 21:52, Richard wrote:
    On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 20:30:46 UTC, Phil wrote:

    Clogs are the way forward, for all sorts of reasons!

    Couldn't agree more! Why don't more clubs / rowers / boat-builders consider this simple, safe and inexpensive option? Forget old-fashioned leather clogs with brass or plastic heel cups - surely modern materials lend themselves to a solution that
    provides adequate support while rowing, yet enables more or less instant release in the event of a capsize. Or have we become totally fixated on fitted shoes being the only possible solution?

    I, too regret the passing of clogs! But back to shoes:

    I understand the concern over shoe bolt positions, but any reputable
    shoe supplier provides, as we always have at CDRS, a template precisely
    defining shoe-bolt positions.


    I think the market has spoken about the clog issue in racing boats!


    Yes - by replacing clogs (which are quite hygienic, fit a wide range of
    foot size & are totally safe for foot release) with shoes (originally
    track shoes) which fit only one size & can trap your feet! BTW, we do
    still make clogs for clients who require them.

    Until I introduced the heel restraint cord into rowing, shoes were
    trapping & drowning several unsuspecting rowers each year. And nothing
    was done!

    The problem I face often eludes Carl's answer. Even his company has changed shoe supplier over the years so a footplate in a 30 year old CD scull can be a hassle with new shoes! Many old footplates actually only have 3 holes drilled or only 3 bolts
    installed! I have even faced the issue of a rower having a preference for a different shoe to the one that actually fits the boat.


    Good rowing shoes can cost from ~£50 up to quite extraordinary sums for
    really fashionable models. Shoe plates cost under £15. A new carbon stretcher board costs £50. So we're not talking large numbers for a
    plate or a board.

    As for 3 bolts per shoe? We've used only 3 bolts almost from the day we
    first fitted shoes - because our tests showed that 3 were always more
    than sufficient. In the early days the main problem was that the
    running shoes then used were not made for the repeated pulling loads
    that rowers apply to them on each stroke, so uppers regularly separated
    from soles. We resolved that by getting a local cobbler to stitch the
    soles to the uppers before we would fit such shoes.

    Quite a few shoe makers are actually unable to provide a drawing or details of the hole pattern when asked! I know - I've asked.


    That's not clever of them! And there are still some shoes whose bolt
    holes don't match - from size to size, from side to side or from model
    to model. One leading make, defined by stripes, once had that problem.
    And their soles were cardboard-backed - so the spiked inserts could
    rotate & carve through the cardboard if the bolt was tight in the thread
    - one useless shoe.

    When rowers invest considerable sums on clothing, electronics & time
    (not forgetting the mounting costs of training, diet, travel, club
    membership, regatta entry, boats, blades & "being a rower") cut-price
    shoes (so often fitted with BR-approved but disastrously ineffective
    heel restraint cords!) seem a dubious choice when perfectly good shoes
    are not expensive.

    Separate shoe plates (from the footboard) can be one way to solve some of the issues, but even that isn't universal to all boat types and has drawbacks of it's own.


    Stretchers are not necessarily specific to certain boats, any more than
    seats, tracks, bungs, riggers, steering equipment, etc. Too often I
    hear people worrying over the inadequacies of foot stretcher gear and
    the difficulty of everyone having the right size of shoe. But any club
    keen to solve that problem could provide a simple stretcher bar and
    mountings in each position and mandate that rowers have their own
    approved stretcher boards with fitted shoes, just as they must provide
    their own kit. Simples.

    I've started by taking pencil rubbings from the bottom of the shoes I have in the workshop (no flat bed copier there) that look pretty accurate.


    The scanner or camera gives true accuracy, as you know, but no harm in providing other options...

    Cheers -
    Carl

    --
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    Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
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    Email: carl@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
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  • From Jonny@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 17 13:58:42 2020
    The first test of this proves the concept.

    Some pictures via my Twitter account https://twitter.com/flying_boatman/status/1339159775532158976

    Now to check a few more shoes and include the splay angle. I hadn't factored in that the varied angle of the holes on the shoe might also be a factor (of course each manufacturer would vary that too...).

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