• Mask on Forehead

    From canonphotographer@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 09:48:22 2017
    I've only been a diver since 1972, so my experience isn't exhaustive, but in countless dives, rescues and recoveries, I have NEVER seen a diver in distress place a mask upon their forehead. It just does not happen in the real world! Stop foisting this
    error upon the diving public! Placing a mask upon the forehead is most often the sign that a diver is tired of having a mask pressing on their face and nose and they find that placing it on their forehead is more comfortable.

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  • From Geoff@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 15:02:39 2017
    On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:48:22 -0700 (PDT), canonphotographer@gmail.com
    wrote:

    I've only been a diver since 1972, so my experience isn't exhaustive, but in countless dives, rescues and recoveries, I have NEVER seen a diver in distress place a mask upon their forehead. It just does not happen in the real world! Stop foisting this
    error upon the diving public! Placing a mask upon the forehead is most often the sign that a diver is tired of having a mask pressing on their face and nose and they find that placing it on their forehead is more comfortable.

    Four words: Lloyd Bridges; Sea Hunt

    He wore his mask on his forehead more times than I can count and he
    never seemed to be in distress. :)

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  • From -hh@21:1/5 to Geoff on Wed Aug 16 03:49:27 2017
    After long inactivity on <rec.scuba>, a thread emerges:

    On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 6:02:39 PM UTC-4, Geoff wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:48:22 -0700 (PDT), canonphotographer@gmail.com
    wrote:

    I've only been a diver since 1972, so my experience isn't exhaustive, but
    in countless dives, rescues and recoveries, I have NEVER seen a diver in distress place a mask upon their forehead. It just does not happen in the real world! Stop foisting this error upon the diving public! Placing a mask upon the forehead is most often the sign that a diver is tired of having a mask pressing on their face and nose and they find that placing it on their forehead is more comfortable.

    Four words: Lloyd Bridges; Sea Hunt

    He wore his mask on his forehead more times than I can count and he
    never seemed to be in distress. :)

    There's a lot of stuff that "Hollywood" does which doesn't really reflect reality - - case in point, just how often a car chase happens - - and how frequently, the bad guy in said chase has his car launched up into the air, usually with a big old "Cremora Bomb" fireball.

    In any case, the Rescue training isn't that a forehead mask is a sign of distress, but a sign of stress - - so its an indicator to watch for the potential
    escalation to distress.

    And while it may be a fairly trivial / silly element of dive training where students were taught to not do this (and DMs to then use this cue), the
    history is that this is what has been taught for 30+ years so in this regards, seeing someone who is behaving in a non-standard method may not be a
    bad idea.

    In the end, the primary motivation for not putting mask on forehead is that
    it does make it easier for the mask to get dropped & lost in the depths,
    which really has very little to do with diver safety. In this regards, using a 'stress/distress' as the only rationale is a bit of a disservice for students. IMO, just tell them that its to save them the hassles (& costs) of a lost mask, plus that its been found to be a decent indicator of induced stress resulting in a break in training procedures.


    -hh

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  • From Geoff@21:1/5 to recscuba_google@huntzinger.com on Wed Aug 16 13:33:34 2017
    On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 03:49:27 -0700 (PDT), -hh
    <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

    After long inactivity on <rec.scuba>, a thread emerges:

    On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 6:02:39 PM UTC-4, Geoff wrote:
    On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:48:22 -0700 (PDT), canonphotographer@gmail.com
    wrote:

    I've only been a diver since 1972, so my experience isn't exhaustive, but >> > in countless dives, rescues and recoveries, I have NEVER seen a diver in >> > distress place a mask upon their forehead. It just does not happen in the >> > real world! Stop foisting this error upon the diving public! Placing a mask
    upon the forehead is most often the sign that a diver is tired of having a >> > mask pressing on their face and nose and they find that placing it on their
    forehead is more comfortable.

    Four words: Lloyd Bridges; Sea Hunt

    He wore his mask on his forehead more times than I can count and he
    never seemed to be in distress. :)

    There's a lot of stuff that "Hollywood" does which doesn't really reflect >reality - - case in point, just how often a car chase happens - - and how >frequently, the bad guy in said chase has his car launched up into the air, >usually with a big old "Cremora Bomb" fireball.

    In any case, the Rescue training isn't that a forehead mask is a sign of >distress, but a sign of stress - - so its an indicator to watch for the potential
    escalation to distress.

    And while it may be a fairly trivial / silly element of dive training where >students were taught to not do this (and DMs to then use this cue), the >history is that this is what has been taught for 30+ years so in this regards, >seeing someone who is behaving in a non-standard method may not be a
    bad idea.

    In the end, the primary motivation for not putting mask on forehead is that >it does make it easier for the mask to get dropped & lost in the depths, >which really has very little to do with diver safety. In this regards, using a
    'stress/distress' as the only rationale is a bit of a disservice for students. >IMO, just tell them that its to save them the hassles (& costs) of a lost mask,
    plus that its been found to be a decent indicator of induced stress resulting >in a break in training procedures.


    -hh

    I agree with all of the above. It's also a good way to preheat and fog
    up your mask before a dive. :)

    Lloyd Bridges, IIRC, knew nothing about diving before he did the show
    and had to be educated to the standards of the day. I always loved the "forever" dives, swimming long distances to some objective from a mile
    away on a single tank and back. Drama. Or the bad guy cutting
    someone's waste hose on the regulator and the ensuing rescue. REAL
    drama.

    Training needs standards and there are valid reasons for standardizing
    on a procedure and sticking with it.

    Buddy system lesson learned on my 2nd certification dive off Catalina:

    I was diving with another novice (total stranger) and instructor ended
    the exercises and said (with hands) let's go swimming, you all passed.
    We head off into the kelp forest. My buddy left his alternate hanging
    loose and as we swam over the reef he snagged it on a cleft in the
    rocks. I was above and a little ahead of him and saw him struggling
    slightly with it, trying to swim forward but unable to see it stuck in
    the slot. I got immediately in front of him, signaled STOP and freed
    him from the rock and we re-rigged him then and there. In the mean
    time the group had moved on into the forest and exited the other side. Instructor did a head count and noticed he lost two. They all came
    back to us in a rush signaling you OK? On the surface I explained the
    reason and the remedy and I thought I did the right thing as a
    responsible buddy.

    Lessons learned: Stay close to your buddy, watch your buddy and check
    for signs of stress. Predive: Check your buddy's rigging and keep your
    stuff rigged right and streamlined.

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  • From Shawn Walsh@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 23 20:12:04 2017

    Four words: Lloyd Bridges; Sea Hunt

    He wore his mask on his forehead more times than I can count and he
    never seemed to be in distress. :)

    I got a good chuckle out of this. When I got my OW cert in 1986 we were taught that the mask on the forehead was considered a distress signal.

    The chuckle came from the fact that every time someone mistakenly put the mask on their forehead the instructor would yell at them "this isn't Sea Hunt and your not Lloyd Bridges".

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