Hello, all
I am stuck at the Master-Mind-like puzzle from Journeyman
Project, where the player must find a sequence of three
*different* colors out of five available, in five attempts,
so that there are 60 combinations to choose from. In re-
sponse to each guess, he receives the number of matching
items, which have the right color at the right position. To
complicate matters, the puzzle has to be solved within a
very short time limit.
Has anybody an idea how to make it honestly, without the as-
sistance of a computer program that keeps track of exlcuded
combinations and suggests a next attempt that efficiently
narrows-down the remaning possiblities? I can't find a
strategy simple enough to employ in mind & memory.
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Letôs start with five colors represented by a, b, c, d and
e. There are 10 possible choices for the three colors not
counting positioning. I would list the ten cases and then
cross them off when they are eliminated.
leflynn:
LetÐ¢s start with five colors represented by a, b, c, d andYes, finding a combination instead of a permutation is much
e. There are 10 possible choices for the three colors not
counting positioning. I would list the ten cases and then
cross them off when they are eliminated.
easier. I still, however, am at a loss about solving the
original problem as fast as the game requires.
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On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 6:01:00 AM UTC-5, Anton Shepelev wrote:
leflynn:
LetÐ¢s start with five colors represented by a, b, c, d andYes, finding a combination instead of a permutation is much
e. There are 10 possible choices for the three colors not
counting positioning. I would list the ten cases and then
cross them off when they are eliminated.
easier. I still, however, am at a loss about solving the
original problem as fast as the game requires.
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On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 6:01:00 AM UTC-5, Anton Shepelev wrote:Well, that post turned into a mess...
leflynn:
LetÐ¢s start with five colors represented by a, b, c, d andYes, finding a combination instead of a permutation is much
e. There are 10 possible choices for the three colors not
counting positioning. I would list the ten cases and then
cross them off when they are eliminated.
easier. I still, however, am at a loss about solving the
original problem as fast as the game requires.
--I see finding a combination as part of the problem fortunately, you can do both at once.
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Here is a decision table. You'll need to view it with a fixed width font.
Is (DCE) in the correct place?
Guess1(ABC) 1p0; Guess2(DAE) 2p2; Guess3 (DCE)
Is (CAD) in the correct place?
Guess1(ABC) 2p0; Guess2(BAD) 2p2; Guess3(BAE) 1P; Guess4(BCD) 2p1; Guess5(CAD)
Well, that post turned into a mess...
leflynn:
Well, that post turned into a mess...Not at all: http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=161580839200
but I still wonder why anyone who knows about monospace
fonts should access Usenet via crippled GoogleGropus...
I have not yet studied your solution yet, but will do.
Here is a decision table.
In response to each guess, he receives the number of
matching items, which have the right color at the right
position.
leflynn:Ouch. Sorry, I've been solving the Mastermind problem, not yours.
Here is a decision table.If I understand your notation, xpy encodes a guess with x
correct colors and y colors at the correct position. I fear
it is not the feedback the player receives in the puzzle I
posted. Instead of two numbers, the machine answers to each
guess with a single number -- the quanitity of colors at
correct positions. It does not reveal how many colors in the
guess are present in the sought combination at incorrect po-
sitions. I wrote in my original post:
In response to each guess, he receives the number ofI am sorry that my English was not clear enough. Perhaps a
matching items, which have the right color at the right
position.
screenshot would help:
https://freeshell.de/~antonius/img_host/colorpuzzle.png
The five avaialbe colors are present above label that reads
"possible color synapse nodes". The guess log is on the
right, with a single number annotating each of the four
spend guesses: 0,1,0,1. This is not a binary code, but the
nubmers of matching color-positions.
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Hello, allI don't have one I would want to memorize but I have a table that wins 51/60 times for an individual puzzle.
I am stuck at the Master-Mind-like puzzle from Journeyman
Project, where the player must find a sequence of three
*different* colors out of five available, in five attempts,
so that there are 60 combinations to choose from. In re-
sponse to each guess, he receives the number of matching
items, which have the right color at the right position. To
complicate matters, the puzzle has to be solved within a
very short time limit.
Has anybody an idea how to make it honestly, without the as-
sistance of a computer program that keeps track of exlcuded
combinations and suggests a next attempt that efficiently
narrows-down the remaning possiblities? I can't find a
strategy simple enough to employ in mind & memory.
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Hello, allI don't have one I would want to memorize but I have a table that wins 51/60 times for an individual puzzle.
I am stuck at the Master-Mind-like puzzle from Journeyman
Project, where the player must find a sequence of three
*different* colors out of five available, in five attempts,
so that there are 60 combinations to choose from. In re-
sponse to each guess, he receives the number of matching
items, which have the right color at the right position. To
complicate matters, the puzzle has to be solved within a
very short time limit.
Has anybody an idea how to make it honestly, without the as-
sistance of a computer program that keeps track of exlcuded
combinations and suggests a next attempt that efficiently
narrows-down the remaning possiblities? I can't find a
strategy simple enough to employ in mind & memory.
--
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Ouch. Sorry, I've been solving the Mastermind problem, not
yours.
I don't have one I would want to memorize but I have a
table that wins 51/60 times for an individual puzzle.
It's essentially a printout of a computer program, so it
doesn't even meet that limiting part of your request. I
see some patterns and choices but by the third round it's
too messy.
Lawrence E Flynn:Anton,
Ouch. Sorry, I've been solving the Mastermind problem, notYou indeed have.
yours.
I don't have one I would want to memorize but I have aThank you very much anyway. It helped me solve the puzzle
table that wins 51/60 times for an individual puzzle.
It's essentially a printout of a computer program, so it
doesn't even meet that limiting part of your request. I
see some patterns and choices but by the third round it's
too messy.
two times! It is randomly generated and the first time I
didn't save my game correctly. I will propose your decision
tree to for inclusion into an existing walkthrough, if I
find a way to do it, with due credits.
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The approach I gave is probably not optimal. It was not an
exhaustive search.
One question, are you only allowed to make guesses with
three different colors, or could you guess, for example,
(A,A,B)?
Lawrence E Flynn:Anton,
The approach I gave is probably not optimal. It was not anI suspected it, because the walkthrough gives a higher
exhaustive search.
chance of winning thatn 51/60.
One question, are you only allowed to make guesses withNo, I am not, and nor are any other players :-)
three different colors, or could you guess, for example,
(A,A,B)?
I have thought of writing a program that at every step
chooses a guess that invalidates the most combinations, by
brutally trying every one of them.
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On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 1:38:24 PM UTC-4, Anton Shepelev wrote:usually the 0 and 1 sets that are competing in size, although, once we have a 2 response from then on it is the 1 and 2 sets that compete.
Lawrence E Flynn:
The approach I gave is probably not optimal. It was not anI suspected it, because the walkthrough gives a higher
exhaustive search.
chance of winning thatn 51/60.
One question, are you only allowed to make guesses withNo, I am not, and nor are any other players :-)
three different colors, or could you guess, for example,
(A,A,B)?
I have thought of writing a program that at every stepAnton,
chooses a guess that invalidates the most combinations, by
brutally trying every one of them.
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Part of the approach I used looks at trying to minimize the maximum number of possible choices in in each of the branches of possible answers (0, 1, 2, or 3 correct) from the current guess given the solution subset for the responses so far. It is
L. Flynn
On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 10:06:01 AM UTC-4, leflynn wrote:usually the 0 and 1 sets that are competing in size, although, once we have a 2 response from then on it is the 1 and 2 sets that compete.
On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 1:38:24 PM UTC-4, Anton Shepelev wrote:
Lawrence E Flynn:
The approach I gave is probably not optimal. It was not anI suspected it, because the walkthrough gives a higher
exhaustive search.
chance of winning thatn 51/60.
One question, are you only allowed to make guesses withNo, I am not, and nor are any other players :-)
three different colors, or could you guess, for example,
(A,A,B)?
I have thought of writing a program that at every stepAnton,
chooses a guess that invalidates the most combinations, by
brutally trying every one of them.
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Part of the approach I used looks at trying to minimize the maximum number of possible choices in in each of the branches of possible answers (0, 1, 2, or 3 correct) from the current guess given the solution subset for the responses so far. It is
And an improvement where the first guess has one hit that loses one out of 21. G1 G2 G3 G4 G5L. FlynnAnton,
I have an improvement for the cases where the initial guess has zero hits. It only loses three of those 32 cases. It uses two guesses that are not in the possible solution set at the point they are used.
G1 G2 G3 G4 G5
123
_0_412
____0_235
_______0_354
__________0_541
__________1_341
__________2_351
_______1_241
__________0_534
__________1_254 x531 x345
__________2_251
_______2_134 (not a possible solution at this point)
__________0_245
__________1_231
__________2_234
____1_314
_______0_431
__________0_542
__________1_532
__________2_435 x451
_______1_142 (not a possible solution at this point)
__________0_215
__________1_352
__________2_342
_______2_214
__________1_315
__________2_514
____2_312
_______1_432
__________1_415
__________2_452
_______2_512
L. Flynn
Anton,
I have an improvement for the cases where the initial
guess has zero hits. It only loses three of those 32
cases. It uses two guesses that are not in the possible
solution set at the point they are used.
[...]
And an improvement where the first guess has one hit that
loses one out of 21.
Hello, all
I am stuck at the Master-Mind-like puzzle ...
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An improved tree that gets to the answer 56/60 times. The
##Y and ##X are my checks on success or failure for the
list of 60 possible answers in numerical order. The odds
of winning all of the games in a five-game match is
slightly over 70%. It gets to the answer for 30 of the
cases with four or fewer guesses.
An improved tree that gets to the answer 56/60 times. The ##Y and ##X are my checks on success or failure for the list of 60 possible answers in numerical order. The odds of winning all of the games in a five-game match is slightly over 70%. It gets tothe answer for 30 of the cases with four or fewer guesses.
L. FlynnHere is a version that is converted from colors 1-5 to colors YBGPR
Here is a version that is converted from colors 1-5 to colors YBGPR
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 1:02:42 AM UTC+7, Anton Shepelev wrote:
Hello, all
I am stuck at the Master-Mind-like puzzle ...
Better yet, try this webpage:
https://james.fabpedigree.com/mmind/mmind.htm
Five pegs, seven colors. Pretty tough! How many guesses do you need? Although details are little known, it's always possible to solve with six guesses.
At the webpage you can go for computer's secret, have it go for yours, or both concurrently.
Try it and tell me what you think.
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Dearest regards, jamesdowallen
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