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  • Camera lenses still filled with elements. Perhaps too many?

    From RichA@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 19 14:34:59 2023
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

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  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Sun Feb 19 18:28:28 2023
    On 2023-02-19 17:34, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

    I suspect it has a lot to do with making a very flat field image which
    is desirable in macro.

    The f/3.5 is a bit underwhelming, however, esp. at that price.

    Odd that its prowess at portraiture is not mentioned.
    (Forehead slap! f/3.5!).

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

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  • From David Taylor@21:1/5 to RichA on Mon Feb 20 07:57:26 2023
    On 19/02/2023 22:34, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

    A little difficult to hand-hold at 2:1, perhaps, but lovely lens, though!

    I've been very pleased with the Olympus 60mm f/2.8 macro with just 13 elements which offers excellent performance up to 1:1 at a third of the weight and a third of the price of its 90mm big brother. Great working distance. Should satisfy many users' needs.

    --
    Cheers,
    David
    Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

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  • From Alfred Molon@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 20 20:05:12 2023
    Am 19.02.2023 um 23:34 schrieb RichA:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

    There will be a reason for all these elements.

    I'm just wondering if this is a native micro 4/3 design, or perhaps an
    adapted APS-C design, due to all that weight and bulk.
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

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  • From geoff@21:1/5 to RichA on Tue Feb 21 16:14:25 2023
    On 20/02/2023 11:34 am, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source


    Clearly you know more about lens design than them. Maybe send them your suggestions and they'll hire you on contract ...

    geoff

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  • From Incubus@21:1/5 to Alan Browne on Tue Feb 21 15:43:19 2023
    On 2023-02-19, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
    On 2023-02-19 17:34, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

    I suspect it has a lot to do with making a very flat field image which
    is desirable in macro.

    The f/3.5 is a bit underwhelming, however, esp. at that price.

    Odd that its prowess at portraiture is not mentioned.
    (Forehead slap! f/3.5!).

    Fast lenses for macro photography are only useful for optical
    viewfinders to allow a brighter view of the subject. For mirrorless
    cameras or DSLRs with live view, it's pointless.

    Macro lenses aren't designed for pleasant bokeh so unless it's a happy coincidence that one provides it, there are often much cheaper lenses
    that will perform better at portrait photography.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to Incubus on Tue Feb 21 11:25:04 2023
    On 2023-02-21 10:43, Incubus wrote:
    On 2023-02-19, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
    On 2023-02-19 17:34, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to
    those two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

    I suspect it has a lot to do with making a very flat field image which
    is desirable in macro.

    The f/3.5 is a bit underwhelming, however, esp. at that price.

    Odd that its prowess at portraiture is not mentioned.
    (Forehead slap! f/3.5!).

    Fast lenses for macro photography are only useful for optical
    viewfinders to allow a brighter view of the subject. For mirrorless
    cameras or DSLRs with live view, it's pointless.

    Having taken many macro shots wide open, I'd have to disagree.

    Macro lenses aren't designed for pleasant bokeh so unless it's a happy coincidence that one provides it, there are often much cheaper lenses
    that will perform better at portrait photography.

    And yet the Tamron 90mm, Minolta 100mm, Canon 100mm and Nikon 105 macros (pre-digital days) are all very good to excellent at portraiture.

    I also had a 120 Makro-Planar f/4 (Cark Zeiss) for a while but never
    tried it for portraits. A tad short FL for that on 6x6, but likely
    suitable.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alfred Molon@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 21 18:13:20 2023
    Am 21.02.2023 um 17:25 schrieb Alan Browne:
    Having taken many macro shots wide open, I'd have to disagree.

    But usually the problem with macro is that you don't have enough DOF.
    That's why people do focus stacking.
    --
    Alfred Molon

    Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
    https://groups.io/g/myolympus
    https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to Alfred Molon on Tue Feb 21 12:27:10 2023
    On 2023-02-21 12:13, Alfred Molon wrote:
    Am 21.02.2023 um 17:25 schrieb Alan Browne:
    Having taken many macro shots wide open, I'd have to disagree.

    But usually the problem with macro is that you don't have enough DOF.
    That's why people do focus stacking.

    Indeed they do. But often the shallow DOF wide open is also desirable
    in itself.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to alfred_molon@yahoo.com on Tue Feb 21 12:20:02 2023
    In article <QY6JL.241796$82jd.184476@fx13.ams1>, Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

    But usually the problem with macro is that you don't have enough DOF.
    That's why people do focus stacking.

    that's a function of aperture & subject distance, not the type of lens.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Incubus@21:1/5 to Alan Browne on Wed Feb 22 14:02:05 2023
    On 2023-02-21, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
    On 2023-02-21 10:43, Incubus wrote:
    On 2023-02-19, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
    On 2023-02-19 17:34, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to
    those two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

    I suspect it has a lot to do with making a very flat field image which
    is desirable in macro.

    The f/3.5 is a bit underwhelming, however, esp. at that price.

    Odd that its prowess at portraiture is not mentioned.
    (Forehead slap! f/3.5!).

    Fast lenses for macro photography are only useful for optical
    viewfinders to allow a brighter view of the subject. For mirrorless
    cameras or DSLRs with live view, it's pointless.

    Having taken many macro shots wide open, I'd have to disagree.

    Macro lenses aren't designed for pleasant bokeh so unless it's a happy
    coincidence that one provides it, there are often much cheaper lenses
    that will perform better at portrait photography.

    And yet the Tamron 90mm, Minolta 100mm, Canon 100mm and Nikon 105 macros (pre-digital days) are all very good to excellent at portraiture.

    The only one I am familiar with (Nikkor 105) has much cheaper
    alternatives.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to David Taylor on Wed Feb 22 12:23:08 2023
    On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 02:57:33 UTC-5, David Taylor wrote:
    On 19/02/2023 22:34, RichA wrote:
    Look at the cut-way for this Olympus macro lens. 18 separate optical elements and it's not even a zoom. Remember when ED glass and aspherics were going to "cure" lenses of this? Never happened. Lenses have definitely gotten better, thanks to those
    two things, but they are still not free of element overkill.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0100604000/om-digital-solutions-releases-om-system-m-zuiko-digital-ed-90mm-f3-5-macro-is-pro?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
    A little difficult to hand-hold at 2:1, perhaps, but lovely lens, though!

    I've been very pleased with the Olympus 60mm f/2.8 macro with just 13 elements
    which offers excellent performance up to 1:1 at a third of the weight and a third of the price of its 90mm big brother. Great working distance. Should satisfy many users' needs.

    --
    Cheers,
    David
    Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

    Their inexpensive 35mm macro lens was capable of focusing within less than an 1 inch, even though the manual claimed 4 inches for closest focus.

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