• Sudden Blindness in Dog (2/2)

    From mjones62@bell.net@21:1/5 to ThePupp...@animail.net on Sun Jan 12 06:37:08 2020
    [continued from previous message]

    Even Skinner understood this!

    And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
    MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
    who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
    THERAPY.

    Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
    us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
    to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
    Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
    it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
    continual change of these three fundamental processes --
    excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

    George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

    What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
    the fish and not the pretty girl?"

    George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

    From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
    To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
    Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
    Subject: Doggy advice

    Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
    I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
    habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

    I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
    way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
    fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
    competent at living with dogs.

    I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
    on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
    dogs doing this and that, for example:

    whining,
    humping, hunching,
    pacing,
    self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
    spinning,
    prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
    overstimulated barking,
    fighting, bullying other dogs,
    compulsive digging,
    compulsive scratching,
    compulsive chewing,
    frantic behavior,
    chasing light, chasing shadow,
    stealing food,
    digging in garbage can,
    loosing house (toilet) training.
    inappropriate fearfulness
    aggression.

    The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
    graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
    the intervening time working with animals (including the
    human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
    in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
    see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

    You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
    animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

    As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
    nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
    is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
    care.

    George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
    Academy of Behavioral Medicine

    "Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
    news:

    I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
    dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
    I do not know what started the problem but he came
    aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
    snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
    and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
    ad I took him with me everywhere.

    At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
    Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
    clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
    it was not working on his aggression problem.

    I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
    trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
    They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
    and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
    suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
    working as he was becoming more aggressive.

    I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
    away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
    on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
    use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

    I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
    ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
    LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
    University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
    had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
    gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
    have the people stop until he could get in control using
    treats, and work on clicker training.

    At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
    the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
    would not come when I called him and would run away when
    I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
    neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
    hasn't trained her dog"

    I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
    were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
    were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
    said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
    say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
    responsible for him."

    *(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
    DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

    As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
    going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
    Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
    Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
    He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
    not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

    The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
    I had been working for 18 months!

    Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
    from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
    I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
    blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
    can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

    I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
    -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
    looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
    on by.

    When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
    me like "you must be out of your mind"

    The results can make a believer!!!

    Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
    Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
    in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

    He just seemed to not notice any one.

    When people talked to him or ask his name he would
    look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

    I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
    enjoy life out in public.

    If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
    was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
    Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
    toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

    My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
    dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
    out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

    I know most people would have given up on him a long time
    ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
    but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

    I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

    ================================

    From: Linda Daniel
    To: Jerry Howe
    Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
    Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

    Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
    to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
    save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
    thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
    have but many people would have. The world just does not
    know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
    solve problems.

    We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
    -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
    you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
    happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

    We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
    right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
    scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
    would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
    to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

    He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
    those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
    in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
    grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

    Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
    stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
    pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
    a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
    smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

    I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

    I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
    walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
    a problem with other people and dogs.

    I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
    to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
    around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
    treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
    coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
    and not move until we backed away-

    - can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
    until I get his attention with treats.

    They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
    but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
    him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
    sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
    to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
    heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

    ----------------------------------

    ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
    `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
    (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
    _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
    (((' (((-((('' ((((

    |\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
    /, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
    |,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
    '-~~;'@ ( ; ;
    _.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
    (,_..----''' (,..--''

    Meow

    /),,/)
    ( ' ; ')
    (,,)-(,,)

    /),,/)
    (' ; ') kiss me
    (,,)-(,,)

    /),,/)
    ( ; ' ) kiss me here
    (,,)-(,,)

    /),,/)
    ( ; ) kiss me here
    (,,)-(,,)

    /)
    ( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
    (,,)-(,,)
    The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

    <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

    http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

    Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

    IT AIN'T PRETTY.

    <{@); ~ } >

    My dog became blind in one eye after 4 days of baytril...So upset. Baytril should be removed from the market...and all vets should be warned.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From cshenk@21:1/5 to mjones62@bell.net on Sun Jan 12 18:04:16 2020
    [continued from previous message]

    contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
    Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
    went haring after phantasmagora.

    The major theorists for the development of the language of
    operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
    B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
    role in the development of American psychology.

    They proposed that learning is the result of the application
    of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
    responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
    probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

    Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
    consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
    an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
    because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
    influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
    illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
    viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
    follows the response that influences whether the response
    is likely or unlikely to occur again.

    It is through operant conditioning that
    voluntary responses are learned.

    One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
    without the operant language, and only pettifogging
    university professors ought to worry about what kind
    of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

    Even Skinner understood this!

    And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
    MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
    who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
    THERAPY.

    Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
    us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
    to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
    Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
    it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
    continual change of these three fundamental processes --
    excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

    George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

    What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
    the fish and not the pretty girl?"

    George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

    From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
    To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
    Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
    Subject: Doggy advice

    Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
    I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
    habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

    I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
    way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
    fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
    competent at living with dogs.

    I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
    on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
    dogs doing this and that, for example:

    whining,
    humping, hunching,
    pacing,
    self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
    spinning,
    prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
    overstimulated barking,
    fighting, bullying other dogs,
    compulsive digging,
    compulsive scratching,
    compulsive chewing,
    frantic behavior,
    chasing light, chasing shadow,
    stealing food,
    digging in garbage can,
    loosing house (toilet) training.
    inappropriate fearfulness
    aggression.

    The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
    graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
    the intervening time working with animals (including the
    human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
    in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
    see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

    You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
    animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

    As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
    nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
    is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
    care.

    George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
    Academy of Behavioral Medicine

    "Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
    news:

    I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
    dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
    I do not know what started the problem but he came
    aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
    snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
    and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
    ad I took him with me everywhere.

    At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
    Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
    clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
    it was not working on his aggression problem.

    I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
    trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
    They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
    and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
    suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
    working as he was becoming more aggressive.

    I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
    away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
    on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
    use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

    I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
    ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
    LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
    University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
    had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
    gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
    have the people stop until he could get in control using
    treats, and work on clicker training.

    At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
    the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
    would not come when I called him and would run away when
    I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
    neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
    hasn't trained her dog"

    I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
    were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
    were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
    said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
    say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
    responsible for him."

    *(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
    DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

    As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
    going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
    Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
    Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
    He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
    not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

    The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
    I had been working for 18 months!

    Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
    from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
    I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
    blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
    can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

    I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
    -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
    looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
    on by.

    When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
    me like "you must be out of your mind"

    The results can make a believer!!!

    Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
    Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
    in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

    He just seemed to not notice any one.

    When people talked to him or ask his name he would
    look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

    I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
    enjoy life out in public.

    If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
    was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
    Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
    toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

    My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
    dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
    out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

    I know most people would have given up on him a long time
    ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
    but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

    I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

    ================================

    From: Linda Daniel
    To: Jerry Howe
    Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
    Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

    Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
    to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
    save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
    thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
    have but many people would have. The world just does not
    know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
    solve problems.

    We will be here until late April and we really have no
    plans- -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any
    time you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would
    be happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

    We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
    right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
    scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times
    people would ask his name and want to pet him and he just
    went to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his
    tummy.

    He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
    those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
    in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
    grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

    Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
    stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
    pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
    a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
    smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

    I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

    I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
    walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
    a problem with other people and dogs.

    I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
    to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
    around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
    treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
    coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
    and not move until we backed away-

    - can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the
    street until I get his attention with treats.

    They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
    but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
    him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
    sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
    to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
    heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

    ----------------------------------

    ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
    `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
    (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
    _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
    (((' (((-((('' ((((

    |\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
    /, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
    |,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
    '-~~;'@ ( ; ;
    _.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
    (,_..----''' (,..--''

    Meow

    /),,/)
    ( ' ; ')
    (,,)-(,,)

    /),,/)
    (' ; ') kiss me
    (,,)-(,,)

    /),,/)
    ( ; ' ) kiss me here
    (,,)-(,,)

    /),,/)
    ( ; ) kiss me here
    (,,)-(,,)

    /)
    ( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
    (,,)-(,,)
    The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

    <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

    http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

    Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

    IT AIN'T PRETTY.

    <{@); ~ } >

    My dog became blind in one eye after 4 days of baytril...So upset.
    Baytril should be removed from the market...and all vets should be
    warned.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)