Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days of
the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many businesses
and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant on open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every countertop and desk and
table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive on
and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply sitting at a
table after an infected person would expose them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other epidemiological
analyses that COVID spread pretty much exclusively via aerosols, those
fine mists we all exhale as we breathe, talk, laugh, cough and sneeze.
There are few, if any, documented cases of the novel-coronavirus
spreading by way of “fomites,†the scientific term for virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why this is the case. A
new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at the
University of Utah, found that the same spittle that helps spread the
virus in the air actually blocks it from later infecting someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
Science marches on.
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days of
the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many businesses
and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant on open surfaces,
aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every countertop and desk and
table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive on
and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply sitting at a
table after an infected person would expose them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other epidemiological
analyses that COVID spread pretty much exclusively via aerosols, those
fine mists we all exhale as we breathe, talk, laugh, cough and sneeze.
There are few, if any, documented cases of the novel-coronavirus
spreading by way of “fomites,†the scientific term for
virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why this is the case. A
new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at the
University of Utah, found that the same spittle that helps spread the
virus in the air actually blocks it from later infecting someone via
surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all - transmitted by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself, and stopped what
little extra surface disinfection I had been doing, and removed it from
my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To pivot
and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of dollars of
profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and thousands of jobs
depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to expect
extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the pandemic.
When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late September and early October, three-quarters said that cleaning and disinfecting made them
feel safe when using transport. ---------------------------------------------------------------- https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe - regardless
of the time and resources that it wastes.
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days
of the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many
businesses and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant on
open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every
countertop and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive
on and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply sitting
at a table after an infected person would expose them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other epidemiological
analyses that COVID spread pretty much exclusively via aerosols,
those fine mists we all exhale as we breathe, talk, laugh, cough
and sneeze. There are few, if any, documented cases of the
novel-coronavirus spreading by way of “fomites,†the
scientific term for virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why this is the >>> case. A new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at
the University of Utah, found that the same spittle that helps
spread the virus in the air actually blocks it from later infecting
someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all - transmitted
by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself, and stopped
what little extra surface disinfection I had been doing, and removed
it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To
pivot and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of
dollars of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and
thousands of jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to expect
extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the pandemic.
When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late September and
early October, three-quarters said that cleaning and disinfecting
made them feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
Well yeah, isn't that what people have always done, even before
we were people and before science was invented? Both the Great Wall of
China and the idiot's wall are good examples of this.
Personally, I feel a little safer with more sanitation because science still says that the Flu virus may be spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days of
the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many businesses
and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant on open
surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every countertop
and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive on
and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply sitting at a
table after an infected person would expose them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other epidemiological
analyses that COVID spread pretty much exclusively via aerosols,
those fine mists we all exhale as we breathe, talk, laugh, cough and
sneeze. There are few, if any, documented cases of the
novel-coronavirus spreading by way of “fomites,†the
scientific term for virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why this is the >>>> case. A new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at
the University of Utah, found that the same spittle that helps
spread the virus in the air actually blocks it from later infecting
someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all - transmitted
by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself, and stopped
what little extra surface disinfection I had been doing, and removed
it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To pivot
and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of dollars
of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and thousands of
jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to expect
extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the pandemic.
When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late September and early
October, three-quarters said that cleaning and disinfecting made them
feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
Well yeah, isn't that what people have always done, even before >> we were people and before science was invented? Both the Great Wall of
China and the idiot's wall are good examples of this.
Personally, I feel a little safer with more sanitation because
science still says that the Flu virus may be spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't "know"?
At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
On 2/22/2022 12:23 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now
We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days
of the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many
businesses and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant
on open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every
countertop and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive
on and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply
sitting at a table after an infected person would expose them to
COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other
epidemiological analyses that COVID spread pretty much
exclusively via aerosols, those fine mists we all exhale as we
breathe, talk, laugh, cough and sneeze. There are few, if any,
documented cases of the novel-coronavirus spreading by way of
“fomites,†the scientific term for
virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why
this is the case. A new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical
engineer at the University of Utah, found that the same spittle
that helps spread the virus in the air actually blocks it from
later infecting someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all -
transmitted by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself,
and stopped what little extra surface disinfection I had been
doing, and removed it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To
pivot and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of
dollars of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and
thousands of jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to
expect extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the
pandemic. When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late
September and early October, three-quarters said that cleaning and
disinfecting made them feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
     Well yeah, isn't that what people have always done, even
before we were people and before science was invented? Both the
Great Wall of China and the idiot's wall are good examples of this.
     Personally, I feel a little safer with more sanitation
because science still says that the Flu virus may be spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't "know"?
At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all
this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
One of the things about science and medicine I keep in mind is that until Sulfa drugs became available in the 30's you had roughly a
50/50 chance of a doctor helping you or harming you. We've both seen
plenty of bad science and bad medicine. In human terms everything
advances slowly. We're still a long way from everyone being helped
every time.
I have no idea of the efficacy and really don't care. The question on your poll was yes or no. The scientifically logical answer
is yes. Thousands of people are hospitalized and die from the flu
every year.
The cost of what I pay to feel safer depends on how you look at it. Does my house or RV count? My clothes and masks? Shoes? I don't
have a gun because that would not be an efficacious use of my money. I
have no idea what I spend on cleaning supplies, except that it isn't
much.
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days of
the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many businesses
and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant on open
surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every countertop
and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive on
and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply sitting at a
table after an infected person would expose them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other epidemiological
analyses that COVID spread pretty much exclusively via aerosols,
those fine mists we all exhale as we breathe, talk, laugh, cough and
sneeze. There are few, if any, documented cases of the
novel-coronavirus spreading by way of “fomites,†the
scientific term for virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why this is the >>>> case. A new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at
the University of Utah, found that the same spittle that helps
spread the virus in the air actually blocks it from later infecting
someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all - transmitted
by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself, and stopped
what little extra surface disinfection I had been doing, and removed
it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To pivot
and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of dollars
of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and thousands of
jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to expect
extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the pandemic.
When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late September and early
October, three-quarters said that cleaning and disinfecting made them
feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
Well yeah, isn't that what people have always done, even before >> we were people and before science was invented? Both the Great Wall of
China and the idiot's wall are good examples of this.
Personally, I feel a little safer with more sanitation because
science still says that the Flu virus may be spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't "know"?
At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 12:23 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now
We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days
of the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many
businesses and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant on >>>>>> open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every
countertop and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive
on and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply sitting >>>>>> at a table after an infected person would expose them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other
epidemiological analyses that COVID spread pretty much exclusively >>>>>> via aerosols, those fine mists we all exhale as we breathe, talk,
laugh, cough and sneeze. There are few, if any, documented cases
of the novel-coronavirus spreading by way of
“fomites,†the scientific term for
virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why
this is the case. A new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical
engineer at the University of Utah, found that the same spittle
that helps spread the virus in the air actually blocks it from
later infecting someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all -
transmitted by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself,
and stopped what little extra surface disinfection I had been
doing, and removed it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To
pivot and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of
dollars of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and
thousands of jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to
expect extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the
pandemic. When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late
September and early October, three-quarters said that cleaning and
disinfecting made them feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
     Well yeah, isn't that what people have always done, even
before we were people and before science was invented? Both the
Great Wall of China and the idiot's wall are good examples of this.
     Personally, I feel a little safer with more sanitation
because science still says that the Flu virus may be spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't "know"?
At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all
this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
One of the things about science and medicine I keep in mind is >> that until Sulfa drugs became available in the 30's you had roughly a
50/50 chance of a doctor helping you or harming you. We've both seen
plenty of bad science and bad medicine. In human terms everything
advances slowly. We're still a long way from everyone being helped
every time.
I have no idea of the efficacy and really don't care. The
question on your poll was yes or no. The scientifically logical answer
is yes. Thousands of people are hospitalized and die from the flu
every year.
If it's scientifically logical, why haven't we been deep cleaning for
the past 100 years? While those thousands were dying, we were not deep cleaning. Nor were we requiring kids to wear masks in school - when kids
are more at risk from the flu than Covid.
The cost of what I pay to feel safer depends on how you look at >> it. Does my house or RV count? My clothes and masks? Shoes? I don't
have a gun because that would not be an efficacious use of my money. I
have no idea what I spend on cleaning supplies, except that it isn't
much.
But is it OK, in your opinion, for the government (taxpayers) to spend billions on deep cleaning?
On 2/22/2022 1:54 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 12:23 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all -
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save Us From COVID, and Now
We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early days >>>>>>> of the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States, many
businesses and even homeowners obsessively sprayed disinfectant
on open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and scrubbing every
countertop and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might survive >>>>>>> on and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that simply
sitting at a table after an infected person would expose them to >>>>>>> COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other
epidemiological analyses that COVID spread pretty much
exclusively via aerosols, those fine mists we all exhale as we
breathe, talk, laugh, cough and sneeze. There are few, if any,
documented cases of the novel-coronavirus spreading by way of
“fomites,†the scientific term for
virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally beginning to understand why
this is the case. A new study led by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical >>>>>>> engineer at the University of Utah, found that the same spittle
that helps spread the virus in the air actually blocks it from
later infecting someone via surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on. >>>>>>
transmitted by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided myself,
and stopped what little extra surface disinfection I had been
doing, and removed it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To
pivot and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions of
dollars of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment, and
thousands of jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to
expect extra levels of sanitization after the early months of the
pandemic. When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late
September and early October, three-quarters said that cleaning and >>>>>> disinfecting made them feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
     Well yeah, isn't that what people have always done, even
before we were people and before science was invented? Both the
Great Wall of China and the idiot's wall are good examples of this.
     Personally, I feel a little safer with more sanitation
because science still says that the Flu virus may be spread this way. >>>>>
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't "know"? >>>> At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all
this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
One of the things about science and medicine I keep in mind is >>> that until Sulfa drugs became available in the 30's you had roughly a
50/50 chance of a doctor helping you or harming you. We've both seen
plenty of bad science and bad medicine. In human terms everything
advances slowly. We're still a long way from everyone being helped
every time.
I have no idea of the efficacy and really don't care. The
question on your poll was yes or no. The scientifically logical
answer is yes. Thousands of people are hospitalized and die from the
flu every year.
If it's scientifically logical, why haven't we been deep cleaning for
the past 100 years? While those thousands were dying, we were not deep
cleaning. Nor were we requiring kids to wear masks in school - when
kids are more at risk from the flu than Covid.
The cost of what I pay to feel safer depends on how you look at >>> it. Does my house or RV count? My clothes and masks? Shoes? I don't
have a gun because that would not be an efficacious use of my money.
I have no idea what I spend on cleaning supplies, except that it
isn't much.
But is it OK, in your opinion, for the government (taxpayers) to spend
billions on deep cleaning?
"Billions"? I had not known the government was spending billions on deep cleaning. My answer would probably depend on where the money was being spent, how much was actually spent and what sort of results they
got. For example, if they were deep cleaning just about any hospital
that's probably money well spent--to a point, naturally.
So, I went looking for those billions. (Go figure.) I'm sure there must be more and I'm hoping you'll tell us all about it, but what
I found was sort of half a million, sort of, to deep clean the
Whitehouse after the orange gangster left. I say "sort of" because it
depends on how you do the accounting. No matter what's going on you have
to clean and refresh the place every now and then. Under the
circumstances I think it was money well spent.
https://news.yahoo.com/us-government-spend-500-000-162704097.html
I would also point out that this is another place where words can have one or more meanings. I have been in places that were claimed to
have been "deep" cleaned that had not been seriously cleaned by my
standards.
When I was in the Navy we did a lot of deep cleaning for inspections. Does that count?
TB
On 2/22/2022 1:54 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 12:23 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save
Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early
days of the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States,
many businesses and even homeowners obsessively sprayed
disinfectant on open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and
scrubbing every countertop and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might
survive on and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that
simply sitting at a table after an infected person would expose >>>>>>> them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other
epidemiological analyses that COVID spread pretty much
exclusively via aerosols, those fine mists we all exhale as we
breathe, talk, laugh, cough and sneeze. There are few, if any,
documented cases of the novel-coronavirus spreading by way of
“fomites,â€ÂÂÂ
the scientific term for virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally
beginning to understand why this is the case. A new study led
by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at the University of
Utah, found that the same spittle that helps spread the virus
in the air actually blocks it from later infecting someone via
surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all -
transmitted by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided
myself, and stopped what little extra surface disinfection I had
been doing, and removed it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must
continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To
pivot and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions
of dollars of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment,
and thousands of jobs depend on that belief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to
expect extra levels of sanitization after the early months of
the pandemic. When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late
September and early October, three-quarters said that cleaning
and disinfecting made them feel safe when using transport.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
     Well yeah, isn't that what people have
always done, even before we were people and before science was
invented? Both the Great Wall of China and the idiot's wall are
good examples of this.
     Personally, I feel a little safer with more
sanitation because science still says that the Flu virus may be
spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't
"know"?
At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all
this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
      One of the things about science and medicine I keep in
mind is that until Sulfa drugs became available in the 30's you had
roughly a 50/50 chance of a doctor helping you or harming you.
We've both seen plenty of bad science and bad medicine. In human
terms everything advances slowly. We're still a long way from
everyone being helped every time.
      I have no idea of the efficacy and really don't care.
The question on your poll was yes or no. The scientifically logical
answer is yes. Thousands of people are hospitalized and die from
the flu every year.
If it's scientifically logical, why haven't we been deep cleaning
for the past 100 years? While those thousands were dying, we were
not deep cleaning. Nor were we requiring kids to wear masks in
school - when kids are more at risk from the flu than Covid.
     The cost of what I pay to feel safer depends on how you
look at it. Does my house or RV count? My clothes and masks? Shoes?
I don't have a gun because that would not be an efficacious use of
my money. I have no idea what I spend on cleaning supplies, except
that it isn't much.
But is it OK, in your opinion, for the government (taxpayers) to
spend billions on deep cleaning?
"Billions"? I had not known the government was spending
billions on deep cleaning. My answer would probably depend on where
the money was being spent, how much was actually spent and what sort
of results they got. For example, if they were deep cleaning just
about any hospital that's probably money well spent--to a point,
naturally.
So, I went looking for those billions. (Go figure.) I'm sure there must be more and I'm hoping you'll tell us all about it, but
what I found was sort of half a million, sort of, to deep clean the Whitehouse after the orange gangster left. I say "sort of" because it depends on how you do the accounting. No matter what's going on you
have to clean and refresh the place every now and then. Under the circumstances I think it was money well spent.
https://news.yahoo.com/us-government-spend-500-000-162704097.html
I would also point out that this is another place where words
can have one or more meanings. I have been in places that were claimed
to have been "deep" cleaned that had not been seriously cleaned by my standards.
When I was in the Navy we did a lot of deep cleaning for inspections. Does that count?
TB
I wouldn't pay one cent to "feel" safer. I do spend quite a bit to "be" safer.
On 2/22/2022 2:43 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
<snip>
I wouldn't pay one cent to "feel" safer. I do spend quite a bit to
"be" safer.
JohnGeorge is "being" safer but he doesn't "feel" safer. What a maroon!
On 2/24/2022 9:53 AM, kmiller wrote:
On 2/22/2022 2:43 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
<snip>
I wouldn't pay one cent to "feel" safer. I do spend quite a bit to
"be" safer.
JohnGeorge is "being" safer but he doesn't "feel" safer. What a maroon!
Speaking of morons (which I know how to spell correctly), Being safer is feeling safer. However, for you blue pill takers, feeling safe is not necessarily being safe. Again you let down your fellow Mensa members.
How do you fool them into letting you keep your membership?
On 2/24/2022 1:19 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
On 2/24/2022 9:53 AM, kmiller wrote:
On 2/22/2022 2:43 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
<snip>
I wouldn't pay one cent to "feel" safer. I do spend quite a bit to
"be" safer.
JohnGeorge is "being" safer but he doesn't "feel" safer. What a maroon!
Speaking of morons (which I know how to spell correctly), Being safer
is feeling safer. However, for you blue pill takers, feeling safe is
not necessarily being safe. Again you let down your fellow Mensa
members. How do you fool them into letting you keep your membership?
Hi Honk. What's John-Squirrelchucker-George doing today?
On 2/24/2022 1:19 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
On 2/24/2022 9:53 AM, kmiller wrote:
On 2/22/2022 2:43 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
<snip>
I wouldn't pay one cent to "feel" safer. I do spend quite a bit to
"be" safer.
JohnGeorge is "being" safer but he doesn't "feel" safer. What a maroon!
Speaking of morons (which I know how to spell correctly), Being safer
is feeling safer. However, for you blue pill takers, feeling safe is
not necessarily being safe. Again you let down your fellow Mensa
members. How do you fool them into letting you keep your membership?
Hi Honk. What's John-Squirrelchucker-George doing today?
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 1:54 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 12:23 PM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
On 2/22/2022 11:26 AM, bfh wrote:
Technobarbarian wrote:
Deep Cleaning Won’t Save
Us From COVID, and Now We Know Why
"emember the COVID deep-cleanse? Two years ago, in the early
days of the novel-coronavirus pandemic in the United States,
many businesses and even homeowners obsessively sprayed
disinfectant on open surfaces, aggressively wiping down and
scrubbing every countertop and desk and table.
The fear back then was that the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen might
survive on and spread via surfaces. People were afraid that
simply sitting at a table after an infected person would expose >>>>>>> them to COVID.
That fear was bunk.
It was soon apparent from contact-tracing and other
epidemiological analyses that COVID spread pretty much
exclusively via aerosols, those fine mists we all exhale as we >>>>>>> breathe, talk, laugh, cough and sneeze. There are few, if any, >>>>>>> documented cases of the novel-coronavirus spreading by way of
“fomites,â€ÂÂÂ
the scientific term for virus-covered surfaces.
Now we’re finally
beginning to understand why this is the case. A new study led >>>>>>> by Jessica Kramer, a biomedical engineer at the University of >>>>>>> Utah, found that the same spittle that helps spread the virus >>>>>>> in the air actually blocks it from later infecting someone via >>>>>>> surfaces as the liquid dries."
[snip]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/deep-cleaning-won-t-save-us-from-covid-and-now-we-know-why/ar-AAU8Tu6
     Science marches on.
We knew back in 2020 that Covid was rarely - if at all -
transmitted by fomites. In late 2020, I self-deparanoided
myself, and stopped what little extra surface disinfection I had >>>>>> been doing, and removed it from my personal Covid religion.
However, at the end of the day going forward, we absolutely must >>>>>> continue to literally believe in Covid surface transmission. To >>>>>> pivot and triangulate now would result in the loss of billions
of dollars of profit in deep cleaning chemicals and equipment,
and thousands of jobs depend on that belief.
----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Despite the evolving evidence, the public might have grown to
expect extra levels of sanitization after the early months of
the pandemic. When the New York MTA surveyed passengers in late >>>>>> September and early October, three-quarters said that cleaning
and disinfecting made them feel safe when using transport.
---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
Forget following the science. Do what makes you "feel" safe -
regardless of the time and resources that it wastes.
     Well yeah, isn't that what people have
always done, even before we were people and before science was
invented? Both the Great Wall of China and the idiot's wall are
good examples of this.
     Personally, I feel a little safer with more
sanitation because science still says that the Flu virus may be
spread this way.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
LOL! "may"? After over a hundred years of flu, science doesn't
"know"?
At any rate, at the end of the day going forward, do you think all
this incessant deep cleaning is cost/result efficacious?
How much would you personally pay to "feel" a little safer?
      One of the things about science and medicine I keep in >>> mind is that until Sulfa drugs became available in the 30's you had
roughly a 50/50 chance of a doctor helping you or harming you.
We've both seen plenty of bad science and bad medicine. In human
terms everything advances slowly. We're still a long way from
everyone being helped every time.
      I have no idea of the efficacy and really don't care. >>> The question on your poll was yes or no. The scientifically logical
answer is yes. Thousands of people are hospitalized and die from
the flu every year.
If it's scientifically logical, why haven't we been deep cleaning
for the past 100 years? While those thousands were dying, we were
not deep cleaning. Nor were we requiring kids to wear masks in
school - when kids are more at risk from the flu than Covid.
     The cost of what I pay to feel safer depends on how you >>> look at it. Does my house or RV count? My clothes and masks? Shoes?
I don't have a gun because that would not be an efficacious use of
my money. I have no idea what I spend on cleaning supplies, except
that it isn't much.
But is it OK, in your opinion, for the government (taxpayers) to
spend billions on deep cleaning?
"Billions"? I had not known the government was spending
billions on deep cleaning. My answer would probably depend on where
the money was being spent, how much was actually spent and what sort
of results they got. For example, if they were deep cleaning just
about any hospital that's probably money well spent--to a point, naturally.
So, I went looking for those billions. (Go figure.) I'm sureSurely you're not suggesting that all the cleaning and disinfecting of public places both indoors and outdoors that we've doing the past 2
there must be more and I'm hoping you'll tell us all about it, but
what I found was sort of half a million, sort of, to deep clean the Whitehouse after the orange gangster left. I say "sort of" because it depends on how you do the accounting. No matter what's going on you
have to clean and refresh the place every now and then. Under the circumstances I think it was money well spent.
years is just business as usual?
----------------------------------------------------------------
...
But it’s easier to clean surfaces than improve ventilation —
especially in the winter — and consumers have come to expect
disinfection protocols. That means that governments, companies and individuals continue to invest vast amounts of time and money in deep-cleaning efforts. By the end of 2020, global sales of surface disinfectant totalled US$4.5 billion, a jump of more than 30% over the previous year. The New York Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA),
which oversees subways and buses and lost billions of dollars in
passenger revenue in 2020, spent $484 million last year in its
response to COVID-19, including enhanced cleaning and sanitization, according to a spokesperson. ------------------------------------------------------------ https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
https://news.yahoo.com/us-government-spend-500-000-162704097.html
I would also point out that this is another place where words
can have one or more meanings. I have been in places that were claimed
to have been "deep" cleaned that had not been seriously cleaned by my standards.
When I was in the Navy we did a lot of deep cleaning for
inspections. Does that count?
TB--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
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