• What occupations have the highest intelligence?

    From alal65536@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 22 21:43:26 2017
    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest paid.

    Abhinav Lal
    Writer & Investor

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  • From Hans-Georg Michna@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 12:42:27 2017
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest paid.

    There was one study I remember in which computer programmers had
    the highest correlation between IQ and evaluation by superior. I
    cannot quickly find the source though.

    One study does not mean much. This cannot be more than an
    unreliable indication.

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability
    to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks
    often require to solve one big problem, possibly taking a lot of
    time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance,
    long-term concentration, and the ability to keep a large problem
    either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage
    medium.

    Hans-Georg

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  • From Favorite_man@21:1/5 to Hans-Georg Michna on Mon Oct 23 09:07:02 2017
    On 10/23/2017 5:42 AM, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest
    paid.

    There was one study I remember in which computer programmers had
    the highest correlation between IQ and evaluation by superior. I
    cannot quickly find the source though.

    One study does not mean much. This cannot be more than an
    unreliable indication.

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability
    to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks
    often require to solve one big problem, possibly taking a lot of
    time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance,
    long-term concentration, and the ability to keep a large problem
    either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage
    medium.

    Hans-Georg


    While the number of highly successful people who are not "employed"
    in any conventional sense is relatively small they probably represent
    the brightest of humanity. Was Armand Hammer "employed" and "paid"
    in any conventional sense other than perhaps pro forma?

    How many US citizens are relinquishing their citizenship in order to
    avoid "death taxes" and other restrictions? Where and how are those
    people counted among the best and brightest for the purposes of OP's
    question. If money is to be used as a guide to intelligence then
    the entrepreneur takes top billing in my book, and as noted, not all
    of them.

    The general consensus is that there are no "dumb questions" however
    this thread is based, IMO, on a very poorly framed one. Payroll as a
    measure of anything is useless because each category (poorly defined
    to begin with) represents a range of actual pay as well as capability
    let alone intelligence. I was having a discussion with an engineer some
    years ago who was employed by a US manufacturer. The discussion involved
    the volume of a spherical tank with square ends. In order to calculate
    the volume this particular engineer dove for the bottom drawer in his
    desk (the least used drawer ) to retrieve a book that he felt could tell
    him how to calculate the volume of the tank because he didn't know how
    to calculate the area of a circle, something I learned in the lower
    grades in grammar school and have always retained. I should add that
    over time he was promoted within the corporate structure to ever higher
    paying positions. Perhaps pay is as often a matter of politics more
    than it is of intelligence.

    So much for "engineers" as a category being among the most intelligent.

    I suggest the question, as presented, is (as usual from this poster)
    pretty much worthless. If you hadn't answered, Hans-Georg, I would have
    let this question pass, waiting for something with teeth. Given enough
    time (perhaps more time than I have) one will come along.

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  • From Bruce S@21:1/5 to Hans-Georg Michna on Mon Oct 23 09:16:25 2017
    On 10/23/2017 04:42 AM, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest
    paid.

    There was one study I remember in which computer programmers had
    the highest correlation between IQ and evaluation by superior. I
    cannot quickly find the source though.

    One study does not mean much. This cannot be more than an
    unreliable indication.

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability
    to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks
    often require to solve one big problem, possibly taking a lot of
    time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance,
    long-term concentration, and the ability to keep a large problem
    either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage
    medium.

    As a software developer, I've found most of my work has involved
    solving one big problem by breaking it down into a swarm of small
    problems. In school we called this "recursive descent", and it
    works well, producing functions that are each small, readily
    understood, and easy to debug. It also lends itself to a high
    level of code reuse, which has been a major goal in software
    for decades, but is usually badly missed. I've seen "professional"
    software that included long, complex functions with no clear single
    purpose, strung together haphazardly until they "worked". One of
    them, by someone amazingly proud to be using Visual Basic for a non-
    trivial purpose, was simply embarrassing. I'd be in on conference
    calls with the developers behind the product and the users and their management. Users would complain about things they needed to do but
    couldn't, only to be told most of the time to just make do with the
    product as is. Having seen the abysmal code, I understood that they
    couldn't afford to make changes. That compared to a couple of products
    with similar purpose that I'd worked on (designed one of them) in the
    past. We had a much more cooperative relationship with users, as our
    software was readily adjusted to their needs. And now I seem to have
    gone off on a tangent. How unusual for me.
    So back to the above. On many projects I've done, time is short. On
    one, we were told we (I designed the software and had two guys helping
    to build it) had three months to build from the ground up, and have
    the tool provide something like a 40% improvement in productivity vs.
    the existing tool they'd been using for years. While solving all the
    little problems, it's important for the developers, or at least the
    lead developer, to keep the "big picture" in mind.

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  • From alal65536@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 08:15:29 2017
    On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 7:37:05 PM UTC+5:30, Favorite_man wrote:
    On 10/23/2017 5:42 AM, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest
    paid.

    There was one study I remember in which computer programmers had
    the highest correlation between IQ and evaluation by superior. I
    cannot quickly find the source though.

    One study does not mean much. This cannot be more than an
    unreliable indication.

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability
    to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks
    often require to solve one big problem, possibly taking a lot of
    time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance,
    long-term concentration, and the ability to keep a large problem
    either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage
    medium.

    Hans-Georg


    While the number of highly successful people who are not "employed"
    in any conventional sense is relatively small they probably represent
    the brightest of humanity. Was Armand Hammer "employed" and "paid"
    in any conventional sense other than perhaps pro forma?

    How many US citizens are relinquishing their citizenship in order to
    avoid "death taxes" and other restrictions? Where and how are those
    people counted among the best and brightest for the purposes of OP's question. If money is to be used as a guide to intelligence then
    the entrepreneur takes top billing in my book, and as noted, not all
    of them.

    Most entrepreneurs run small businesses, and don't make that much money. As there is a range of incomes, you should compare the mean or median.


    The general consensus is that there are no "dumb questions" however
    this thread is based, IMO, on a very poorly framed one. Payroll as a
    measure of anything is useless because each category (poorly defined
    to begin with) represents a range of actual pay as well as capability
    let alone intelligence. I was having a discussion with an engineer some
    years ago who was employed by a US manufacturer. The discussion involved
    the volume of a spherical tank with square ends. In order to calculate
    the volume this particular engineer dove for the bottom drawer in his
    desk (the least used drawer ) to retrieve a book that he felt could tell
    him how to calculate the volume of the tank because he didn't know how
    to calculate the area of a circle, something I learned in the lower
    grades in grammar school and have always retained. I should add that
    over time he was promoted within the corporate structure to ever higher paying positions. Perhaps pay is as often a matter of politics more
    than it is of intelligence.

    It requires intelligence to play politics. Maybe not IQ, but by intelligence I am not focusing specifically on IQ. However Engineers are notorious for having poor people skills.


    So much for "engineers" as a category being among the most intelligent.

    One case, does not make the case against engineers.


    I suggest the question, as presented, is (as usual from this poster)
    pretty much worthless. If you hadn't answered, Hans-Georg, I would have
    let this question pass, waiting for something with teeth. Given enough
    time (perhaps more time than I have) one will come along.

    How would you judge the typical intelligence of a member of a profession, and how would you compare them? Medical professionals are also highly paid in most countries.

    My question simplifies a complex issue. Different professions require different kinds of intelligence.

    Abhinav Lal
    Writer & Investor

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  • From alal65536@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Hans-Georg Michna on Mon Oct 23 08:18:09 2017
    On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 4:12:27 PM UTC+5:30, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest
    paid.

    There was one study I remember in which computer programmers had
    the highest correlation between IQ and evaluation by superior. I
    cannot quickly find the source though.

    One study does not mean much. This cannot be more than an
    unreliable indication.

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability
    to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks
    often require to solve one big problem, possibly taking a lot of
    time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance,
    long-term concentration, and the ability to keep a large problem
    either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage
    medium.


    IQ tests IMHO are a very limited measure of intelligence. They don't focus on people skills or creativity.

    Abhinav Lal
    Writer & Investor

    Hans-Georg

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  • From alal65536@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 25 03:16:25 2017
    On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 7:37:05 PM UTC+5:30, Favorite_man wrote:
    On 10/23/2017 5:42 AM, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance professionals are among the highest
    paid.

    There was one study I remember in which computer programmers had
    the highest correlation between IQ and evaluation by superior. I
    cannot quickly find the source though.

    One study does not mean much. This cannot be more than an
    unreliable indication.

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability
    to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks
    often require to solve one big problem, possibly taking a lot of
    time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance,
    long-term concentration, and the ability to keep a large problem
    either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage
    medium.

    Hans-Georg


    While the number of highly successful people who are not "employed"
    in any conventional sense is relatively small they probably represent
    the brightest of humanity. Was Armand Hammer "employed" and "paid"
    in any conventional sense other than perhaps pro forma?

    How many US citizens are relinquishing their citizenship in order to
    avoid "death taxes" and other restrictions? Where and how are those
    people counted among the best and brightest for the purposes of OP's question. If money is to be used as a guide to intelligence then
    the entrepreneur takes top billing in my book, and as noted, not all
    of them.

    Most new businesses fail. As such, the median income of an entrepreneur can't be that high. Also, most entrepreneurs belong to a specific occupation, like computer programmer.


    The general consensus is that there are no "dumb questions" however
    this thread is based, IMO, on a very poorly framed one. Payroll as a
    measure of anything is useless because each category (poorly defined
    to begin with) represents a range of actual pay as well as capability
    let alone intelligence. I was having a discussion with an engineer some
    years ago who was employed by a US manufacturer. The discussion involved
    the volume of a spherical tank with square ends. In order to calculate
    the volume this particular engineer dove for the bottom drawer in his
    desk (the least used drawer ) to retrieve a book that he felt could tell
    him how to calculate the volume of the tank because he didn't know how
    to calculate the area of a circle, something I learned in the lower
    grades in grammar school and have always retained. I should add that
    over time he was promoted within the corporate structure to ever higher paying positions. Perhaps pay is as often a matter of politics more
    than it is of intelligence.

    So much for "engineers" as a category being among the most intelligent.

    I suggest the question, as presented, is (as usual from this poster)
    pretty much worthless. If you hadn't answered, Hans-Georg, I would have
    let this question pass, waiting for something with teeth. Given enough
    time (perhaps more time than I have) one will come along.

    You have shown lack of knowledge of business and intelligence. An example that high IQ (assuming you meet Mensa standards), doesn't necessarily imply intelligence.

    Abhinav Lal
    Writer & Investor

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  • From Hans-Georg Michna@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 26 10:53:49 2017
    On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700 (PDT), alal65536@gmail.com
    wrote:

    IQ tests IMHO are a very limited measure of intelligence. They don't focus on people skills or creativity.

    True, but while I had tried to explain the limits of IQ testing,
    there are also positive things to be said about the IQ:

    http://michna.com/intelligence.htm

    Hans-Georg

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  • From =?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl.Mass=E9?=@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 11 01:39:39 2017
    "Hans-Georg Michna" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : sghruc116cr0usv5t8e1s7lmlg3t4uv21r@4ax.com...

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability to solve a swarm of small problems, while professional tasks often require to solve
    one big problem, possibly taking a lot of time. So IQ tests miss abilities related to perseverance, long-term concentration, and the ability to keep
    a large problem either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable storage medium.

    Non sequitur. A big problem is usually split in smaller ones. Perseverance
    is needed too for solving many small problems, while in this case there is
    no big motivation. The IQ is the better predictor of academic success, which obviously demands big perseverance, concentration, organization etc.

    --
    ~~~~ clmasse on free F-country
    Liberty, Equality, Profitability.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Cl.Mass=C3=A9?=@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 11 01:39:26 2017
    a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : 008f6617-26aa-4298-9a8d-335270a6f857@googlegroups.com...

    What occupations have the highest intelligence? If the goal is to make as much money as possible, then who makes the most money? Results will vary from country to country. But generally, engineers, and finance
    professionals are among the highest paid.

    There is no dumb job, there are only dumb people.

    --
    ~~~~ clmasse on free F-country
    Liberty, Equality, Profitability.

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  • From Hans-Georg Michna@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 11 13:29:44 2017
    On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 01:39:39 +0100, Cl.Massé wrote:

    "Hans-Georg Michna" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : >sghruc116cr0usv5t8e1s7lmlg3t4uv21r@4ax.com...

    And we should never forget that IQ tests only test the ability to solve a
    swarm of small problems, while professional tasks often require to solve
    one big problem, possibly taking a lot of time. So IQ tests miss abilities >> related to perseverance, long-term concentration, and the ability to keep
    a large problem either in mind or well-organized on some easily readable
    storage medium.

    Non sequitur. A big problem is usually split in smaller ones. Perseverance >is needed too for solving many small problems, while in this case there is
    no big motivation. The IQ is the better predictor of academic success, which >obviously demands big perseverance, concentration, organization etc.

    If I had the choice of judging a person's intelligence from the
    IQ or from academic success, I would look at the academic
    success first.

    I'm not saying that the IQ is useless. It has its strengths, no
    doubt.

    Hans

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