• Henry Ford's activities

    From k.eakle12@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Gordon Banks on Fri Jun 16 09:12:11 2017
    I see this is an old thread, but VERY interesting to me. I am doing research on the history of jazz violin or fiddle, and have been fascinated as a fiddle player, that there are so few jazz violinists, especially since the early beginnings of jazz there
    were MANY violinists playing jazz. But by the 30's and certainly the forties and fifties the violin was seen as not belonging in jazz. I wonder if Henry Ford's support for fiddle contests and square dance weren't seen as a antidote for his apparent
    dislike of jazz. Whether Ford himself felt that way, was his pushing the art of country fiddle seen as supporting white music as opposed to Black?
    I hear some anecdotal evidence here that he was racist is at least some of his attitudes. Did that include racist attitudes to Jazz as Black music as well? If any of the original respondents are out there, I'd love to hear your comments on this...

    On Friday, March 1, 1996 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-8, Gordon Banks wrote:
    In article <4giscl$gsm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> oldtime1@aol.com (Oldtime1) writes:
    There won't be much oldtime content in this; Gordon Banks has led us to a >contemplation of moral relativism. So if ideas beyond tunes, tunings and >players turns you off, please don't bother reading this. Gordon holds
    that to be anything other than a moral relativist is to be "smugly >self-rightous in hind-sight." So one can't condemn the outrages of the >past because most folks either approved or sat on their tootie and let it >happen. Therefore, we have to assume that if we'd been there we'd have >been just as venal, complaisant or cowardly. But Gordon, among the
    readers of this newsgroup is Rob, who spent several months in a
    Mississippi jail in 1963 because he believed everybody should be allowed
    to vote. I don't care to celebrate the chickenhearted and your philosophy >seems devoid of values. Would you have us assume that if we'd been in a >place where infantcide was practiced, we'd at least have tortured a >teenager? I also got into a little trouble in the civil rights years for >work I still think was okay. If that sounds smugly self-rightous, so be >it. Gordon, how does a moral relativist make his contribution? Joe
    Wilson

    Joe, you make several mistakes in your rant. First, don't assume that
    when I throw out something to make people think about the smug self- righteousness of their position (which you amply demonstrate here), that
    from that little snippet you can put me in your little cubby-hole. I
    am not a moral relativist. I am a skeptic. I am skeptical of the notion that we are superior to our ancestors. Rather than condemning them, you should be grateful that certain superstitions have been overcome, if only temporarily. If Rob is the kind of man who acts on his moral beliefs,
    bravo for him. There have been such characters throughout history, however. It isn't a modern phenomenon.



    -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Gordon Banks N3JXP |"Caminante, no hay camino. http://www.pitt.edu/~gebanks | Se hace camino, al andar." -Antonio Machado ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  • From Paul Gifford@21:1/5 to k.ea...@gmail.com on Fri Aug 30 16:55:06 2019
    On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 12:12:12 PM UTC-4, k.ea...@gmail.com wrote:
    I see this is an old thread, but VERY interesting to me. I am doing research on the history of jazz violin or fiddle, and have been fascinated as a fiddle player, that there are so few jazz violinists, especially since the early beginnings of jazz
    there were MANY violinists playing jazz. But by the 30's and certainly the forties and fifties the violin was seen as not belonging in jazz. I wonder if Henry Ford's support for fiddle contests and square dance weren't seen as a antidote for his apparent
    dislike of jazz. Whether Ford himself felt that way, was his pushing the art of country fiddle seen as supporting white music as opposed to Black?
    I hear some anecdotal evidence here that he was racist is at least some of his attitudes. Did that include racist attitudes to Jazz as Black music as well? If any of the original respondents are out there, I'd love to hear your comments on this...

    On Friday, March 1, 1996 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-8, Gordon Banks wrote:
    In article <4giscl$gsm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> oldtime1@aol.com (Oldtime1) writes:
    There won't be much oldtime content in this; Gordon Banks has led us to a >contemplation of moral relativism. So if ideas beyond tunes, tunings and >players turns you off, please don't bother reading this. Gordon holds >that to be anything other than a moral relativist is to be "smugly >self-rightous in hind-sight." So one can't condemn the outrages of the >past because most folks either approved or sat on their tootie and let it >happen. Therefore, we have to assume that if we'd been there we'd have >been just as venal, complaisant or cowardly. But Gordon, among the >readers of this newsgroup is Rob, who spent several months in a >Mississippi jail in 1963 because he believed everybody should be allowed >to vote. I don't care to celebrate the chickenhearted and your philosophy >seems devoid of values. Would you have us assume that if we'd been in a >place where infantcide was practiced, we'd at least have tortured a >teenager? I also got into a little trouble in the civil rights years for >work I still think was okay. If that sounds smugly self-rightous, so be >it. Gordon, how does a moral relativist make his contribution? Joe >Wilson

    Joe, you make several mistakes in your rant. First, don't assume that
    when I throw out something to make people think about the smug self- righteousness of their position (which you amply demonstrate here), that from that little snippet you can put me in your little cubby-hole. I
    am not a moral relativist. I am a skeptic. I am skeptical of the notion that we are superior to our ancestors. Rather than condemning them, you should be grateful that certain superstitions have been overcome, if only temporarily. If Rob is the kind of man who acts on his moral beliefs, bravo for him. There have been such characters throughout history, however.
    It isn't a modern phenomenon.



    -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Gordon Banks N3JXP |"Caminante, no hay camino. http://www.pitt.edu/~gebanks | Se hace camino, al andar." -Antonio Machado ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I happened to read this thread, some 20 years after it happened, and read your comments. I don't think Henry Ford had anything to do with jazz violin. Depending on how you define jazz, I'm sure that a lot of 1920s dance orchestras included leaders who
    played the violin, simply because dance orchestras had always been led by violinists/fiddlers. Depending on what part of the country they lived in, these orchestras, if they were professional, commercial outfits, would have learned the latest styles.
    So, when fox trots came in during the teens, they added a tenor banjo, replaced the clarinet with a sax, and played them, in addition to waltzes, schottisches, quadrilles, two-steps, etc. Perhaps because the new dances allowed more dancers per square
    foot, the music needed to be louder. So the saxophone and trumpet became dominant, and violins disappeared. A few odd violinists might play jazz improvisation and swing with small groups, and a small number of Hungarian Gypsy violinists might play some
    jazz in a few places, but basically it was small numbers.

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