There appears to be some misconception about the composer of 'Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari'.

The commonly believed composer is 'Agastya'. There have been several 'Agastyas' in the Tamil lore from time to time, based on the need of Tamil literature, so it is difficult to find out to which Agastya the composition of this song be credited to!

For convenience sake, let us take it simply as 'Sage Agastya' of pre-christian times, who played a predominant role in Tamil 'Changam / Sangam' literature. If we take this as a working hypothesis to start with, then we immediately face a few problems.

(1) Why are the Pallavi and Anupallavi of this kriti in Sanskrit while the Charanams are in Tamil? Very strange, isn't it?

(2) Also, the words 'Sri Lalitha Ambike' at the end of Pallavi... This is a very strange. No composer would use two such names separately. In order to maintain laya, the singers will have to give a small pause after 'Lalitha' and then sing 'Ambike'.
Ideally, this should have been 'Sri Lalithaambike'. But if we try to sing with the word 'Lalithaambike', then we would be missing the laya. The pallavi appears to end abruptly and one is forced to give a pause until the end of tala cycle, or stretch
the word, like 'Lalithaambikeyyy...'.

(3) Lastly, the names 'Lalitha' and 'Bhuvaneshwari'. These names are practically unheard of in the Tamil literature of historic lore. The initial uses of the word 'Lalitha' as a name for Devi appears around 3rd century in Sanskrit literature, but it
was only popularised by Sri Shankaracharya much later. Very unlikely that 'Sage Agastya' would have used it.
Similarly 'Bhuvaneshwari' was predominantly used in Mysore traditions in 18th and 19th centuries, and the word was practically unheard of before that. Bhuvaneshwari was a family diety of Mysore Maharajas, and the very first picture of Bhuvaneshwari was
created only during Maharajas' rule, and can be seen in the Mysore palace.

So, this kriti 'Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari' is not an original Tamil composition by 'Agastya'. This is completely false.

The original composer of this kriti was Mysore maharaja Jaya Chamarajendra Vodeyar. (It is believed that many of the compositions attributed to Jaya Chamarajendra Vodeyar were originally composed by Muttaiah Bhagavathar who was the Asthana Vidwan of the
Maharaja. It is possible that this Devi kriti is also a composition of Muttaiah Bhagavathar, and Maharaja's name was used as proxy. We will never know it for sure, but the Maharaja himself was definitely an exemplary musician and a great composer, and
there are many kritis exclusively attributed to him without a doubt. So, we have to give the benefit of doubt to him, and attribute it to the Maharaja.)

The original composition was in Kannada language, with high level of 'sankritisation' (lots of sanskrit usage). (Muttaiah Bhagavathar and the Maharaja have composed many songs on Devi in Kannada and so this is not a surprise.) The original pallavi ends
with the words 'Sri Lalithaambikeye' which means 'O Sri Lalithaambike'. With this word, we will have perfect laya and is much more beautiful and soulful than what is now sung wit two words ('Lalitha... Ambike'). Try it yourself. Unfortunately, the
word was later split into two to give it an authentic Sanskrit look, and with this the beauty of the kriti was spoiled.

Senjurutti (which is a variation of Hindustani Jhanjuti) was a very popular raga in the Mysore compositions. Several kritis and devaranamas which were composed during Maharaja's period was in Senjurutti raga. Who can forget Veena Sheshanna's immortal
varnam in Jhanjuti - Dhirana Tana Dhim Tha Dhirana?

Now comes the questions for which there are no answers.

(1) If Pallavi and Anupallavi were composed in sanskritised Kannada, where is the rest of the kriti? The Charanas appear to have been lost permanently.

(2) The three Tamil charanas which are now commonly sung with this song, are definitely later additions by a clever pseudo-composer or singer. Who did this? and, Why?

While the Charanams themselves are definitely beautiful, the problem is that they don't mix well with the Pallavi and Anupallavi. After listening to Pallavi and Anupallavi in Sanskrit, suddenly the charanams start with Tamil and the listener will feel
as if there is a jerk and an interruption. Of course the shift from Senjurutti to Punnagavarali helps to smoothen this jerk a little bit, but it is still there.

There must be someone from the earlier generation who knows about the history of this Kriti. The world of music would be grateful to him/her if he/she is able to throw more light on this topic, and restore the original kriti and the composer to their
rightful place.

- Srinivasan.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

There appears to be some misconception about the composer of 'Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari'.

The commonly believed composer is 'Agastya'. There have been several 'Agastyas' in the Tamil lore from time to time, based on the need of Tamil literature, so it is difficult to find out to which Agastya the composition of this song be credited to!

For convenience sake, let us take it simply as 'Sage Agastya' of pre-christian times, who played a predominant role in Tamil 'Changam / Sangam' literature. If we take this as a working hypothesis to start with, then we immediately face a few problems.

(1) Why are the Pallavi and Anupallavi of this kriti in Sanskrit while the Charanams are in Tamil? Very strange, isn't it?

(2) Also, the words 'Sri Lalitha Ambike' at the end of Pallavi... This is a very strange. No composer would use two such names separately. In order to maintain laya, the singers will have to give a small pause after 'Lalitha' and then sing 'Ambike'.
Ideally, this should have been 'Sri Lalithaambike'. But if we try to sing with the word 'Lalithaambike', then we would be missing the laya. The pallavi appears to end abruptly and one is forced to give a pause until the end of tala cycle, or stretch
the word, like 'Lalithaambikeyyy...'.

(3) Lastly, the names 'Lalitha' and 'Bhuvaneshwari'. These names are practically unheard of in the Tamil literature of historic lore. The initial uses of the word 'Lalitha' as a name for Devi appears around 3rd century in Sanskrit literature, but it
was only popularised by Sri Shankaracharya much later. Very unlikely that 'Sage Agastya' would have used it.
Similarly 'Bhuvaneshwari' was predominantly used in Mysore traditions in 18th and 19th centuries, and the word was practically unheard of before that. Bhuvaneshwari was a family diety of Mysore Maharajas, and the very first picture of Bhuvaneshwari was
created only during Maharajas' rule, and can be seen in the Mysore palace.

So, this kriti 'Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari' is not an original Tamil composition by 'Agastya'. This is completely false.

The original composer of this kriti was Mysore Maharaja Krishnaraja Wodeyar IV (1884–1940). (It is believed that many of the compositions attributed to Krishnaraja Wodeyar were originally composed by Harikeshanallur Muttaiah Bhagavathar who was the
Asthana Vidwan of the Maharaja. It is possible that this Devi kriti is also a composition of Muttaiah Bhagavathar, and Maharaja's name was used as proxy. We will never know it for sure, but the Maharaja himself was definitely an exemplary musician and
a great composer, and there are many kritis exclusively attributed to him without a doubt. So, we have to give the benefit of doubt to him, and attribute it to the Maharaja.)

The original composition was in Kannada language, with high level of 'sankritisation' (lots of sanskrit usage). (Muttaiah Bhagavathar and the Maharaja have composed many songs on Devi in Kannada and so this is not a surprise.) The original pallavi ends
with the words 'Sri Lalithaambikeye' which means 'O Sri Lalithaambike'. With this word, we will have perfect laya and is much more beautiful and soulful than what is now sung wit two words ('Lalitha... Ambike'). Try it yourself. Unfortunately, the
word was later split into two to give it an authentic Sanskrit look, and with this the beauty of the kriti was spoiled.

Senjurutti (which is a variation of Hindustani Jhanjuti) was a very popular raga in the Mysore compositions. Several kritis and devaranamas which were composed during Maharaja's period was in Senjurutti raga. Who can forget Veena Sheshanna's immortal
varnam in Jhanjuti - Dhirana Tana Dhim Tha Dhirana?

Now comes the questions for which there are no answers.

(1) If Pallavi and Anupallavi were composed in sanskritised Kannada, where is the rest of the kriti? The Charanas appear to have been lost permanently.

(2) The three Tamil charanas which are now commonly sung with this song, are definitely later additions by a clever pseudo-composer or singer. Who did this? and, Why?

While the Charanams themselves are definitely beautiful, the problem is that they don't mix well with the Pallavi and Anupallavi. After listening to Pallavi and Anupallavi in Sanskrit, suddenly the charanams start with Tamil and the listener will feel
as if there is a jerk and an interruption. Of course the shift from Senjurutti to Punnagavarali helps to smoothen this jerk a little bit, but it is still there.

There must be someone from the earlier generation who knows about the history of this Kriti. The world of music would be grateful to him/her if he/she is able to throw more light on this topic, and restore the original kriti and the composer to their
rightful place.

- Srinivasan.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

There appears to be some misconception about the composer of 'Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari'.

The commonly believed composer is 'Agastya'. There have been several 'Agastyas' in the Tamil lore from time to time, based on the need of Tamil literature, so it is difficult to find out to which Agastya the composition of this song be credited to!

For convenience sake, let us take it simply as 'Sage Agastya' of pre-christian times, who played a predominant role in Tamil 'Changam / Sangam' literature. If we take this as a working hypothesis to start with, then we immediately face a few problems.

(1) Why are the Pallavi and Anupallavi of this kriti in Sanskrit while the Charanams are in Tamil? Very strange, isn't it?

(2) Also, the words 'Sri Lalitha Ambike' at the end of Pallavi... This is a very strange. No composer would use two such names separately. In order to maintain laya, the singers will have to give a small pause after 'Lalitha' and then sing 'Ambike'.
Ideally, this should have been 'Sri Lalithaambike'. But if we try to sing with the word 'Lalithaambike', then we would be missing the laya. The pallavi appears to end abruptly and one is forced to give a pause until the end of tala cycle, or stretch
the word, like 'Lalithaambikeyyy...'.

(3) Lastly, the names 'Lalitha' and 'Bhuvaneshwari'. These names are practically unheard of in the Tamil literature of historic lore. The initial uses of the word 'Lalitha' as a name for Devi appears around 3rd century in Sanskrit literature, but it
was only popularised by Sri Shankaracharya much later. Very unlikely that 'Sage Agastya' would have used it.
Similarly 'Bhuvaneshwari' was predominantly used in Mysore traditions in 18th and 19th centuries, and the word was practically unheard of before that. Bhuvaneshwari was a family diety of Mysore Maharajas, and the very first picture of Bhuvaneshwari was
created only during Maharajas' rule, and can be seen in the Mysore palace.

So, this kriti 'Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari' is not an original Tamil composition by 'Agastya'. This is completely false.

The original composer of this kriti was Mysore Maharaja Krishnaraja Wodeyar IV (1884–1940). (It is believed that many of the compositions attributed to Krishnaraja Wodeyar were originally composed by Harikeshanallur Muttaiah Bhagavathar who was the
Asthana Vidwan of the Maharaja. It is possible that this Devi kriti is also a composition of Muttaiah Bhagavathar, and Maharaja's name was used as proxy. We will never know it for sure, but the Maharaja himself was definitely an exemplary musician and
a great composer, and there are many kritis exclusively attributed to him without a doubt. So, we have to give the benefit of doubt to him, and attribute it to the Maharaja.)

The original composition was in Kannada language, with high level of 'sankritisation' (lots of sanskrit usage). (Muttaiah Bhagavathar and the Maharaja have composed many songs on Devi in Kannada and so this is not a surprise.) The original pallavi ends
with the words 'Sri Lalithaambikeye' which means 'O Sri Lalithaambike'. With this word, we will have perfect laya and is much more beautiful and soulful than what is now sung wit two words ('Lalitha... Ambike'). Try it yourself. Unfortunately, the
word was later split into two to give it an authentic Sanskrit look, and with this the beauty of the kriti was spoiled.

Senjurutti (which is a variation of Hindustani Jhanjuti) was a very popular raga in the Mysore compositions. Several kritis and devaranamas which were composed during Maharaja's period was in Senjurutti raga. Who can forget Veena Sheshanna's immortal
varnam in Jhanjuti - Dhirana Tana Dhim Tha Dhirana?

Now comes the questions for which there are no answers.

(1) If Pallavi and Anupallavi were composed in sanskritised Kannada, where is the rest of the kriti? The Charanas appear to have been lost permanently.

(2) The three Tamil charanas which are now commonly sung with this song, are definitely later additions by a clever pseudo-composer or singer. Who did this? and, Why?

While the Charanams themselves are definitely beautiful, the problem is that they don't mix well with the Pallavi and Anupallavi. After listening to Pallavi and Anupallavi in Sanskrit, suddenly the charanams start with Tamil and the listener will feel
as if there is a jerk and an interruption. Of course the shift from Senjurutti to Punnagavarali helps to smoothen this jerk a little bit, but it is still there.

There must be someone from the earlier generation who knows about the history of this Kriti. The world of music would be grateful to him/her if he/she is able to throw more light on this topic, and restore the original kriti and the composer to their
rightful place.

- Srinivasan.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

The reasoning appears logical and I am impressed and agree to the systematic analysis of the kriti. My mind is at rest now. Thank you sir

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 1:41:58 AM UTC-4, pushp...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

Would like to bring to the attention of all music fraternity & music lovers that this song was tuned by my mother Smt Mangalam SankaraNarayanan as per the Divine orders of our swamiji Sadguru Sri Gnanananda Giri swamigal. One evening in the Thapovanam

Ashram, Swamigal gave Agasthiyar geetham book to my mother & asked to sing Srichakra raja simhasaneswari song. On the spot, with Sadguru blessings she tuned the song in Ragamaligai (she has passed music lower, higher exams) & sang in front of Swamigal.
That time Sri Maharajapuram Santhanam visited thapovanam. Swamiji asked him to popularise the song.

This is the real divine happening of this song & now it us famous worldwide. But people are not aware that it is tuned by my mother the Noble soul who dedicated her life in the Guru sevai & not after fame & popularity. I feel this message would be best homage to my mother.

My father is an ardent devotee of Sri Mahaperiyava & wrote many books on him like The Holy Advent, The voice of Divinity etc.

Hello: I had asked about the Geetam book of Agastyar earlier. Maybe I should have given you some background information about me. I would love to add the songs to my database.Please see here: http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/music/in-
the-service-of-carnatic-music/article2814121.ece

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Sri Chakra Raja Simhasaneshwari praising the mother Goddess. It is a ragamalika composed by Agastya and the words are in Sanskrit and Tamil. The story perhaps apocryphal is that Agastya was initiated into the Srividya tradition (Devi worship) by the
deity Vishnu appearing in the form of Hayagriva. The practice of Sri Chakra involves the worship of the deity in the form of a diagram (nine inter-locking triangles) that represents both Shiva and Shakthi, the yin and yang of human nature. The song has
been composed in the ragas Senchurutti, Punnagavarali, Nadanamakriya and Sindhubhairavi.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Thank you for the detail explanation, the question why we have Tamil in the Kriti was very disturbing for me. Your answer is very useful. Do we have the Sanskrit version available, if yes please do share

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 8:12:10 PM UTC+5:30, madhul...@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you for the detail explanation, the question why we have Tamil in the Kriti was very disturbing for me. Your answer is very useful. Do we have the Sanskrit version available, if yes please do share

my pleasure, if I get a Sanskrit explanation I would definitely share.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)