• "Great Pianists' Early vs Late Recordings"

    From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 27 18:24:44 2023
    (2023 Y. upload)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Thu Apr 27 19:23:14 2023
    On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:24:48 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    No link provided? Has
    the bot lost his MO?

    I ask the question...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 02:08:38 2023
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 03:24:48 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness, energy,
    alertness.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 05:55:22 2023
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 14:27:04 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:

    Your post prompted me to listen to some late Arrau, and these lines of that Shakespeare sonnet came to mind.
    In me thou see'st the glowing of such fire
    That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
    I like to watch flames, and I like the glowing embers too.

    It's Shakespeare's talent to see beauty, even in decline. Perhaps there is beauty, as you say there is, but even Hofmann has lost most of his sparkle - although he still sparkles.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 05:27:01 2023
    On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:08:41 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 03:24:48 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness, energy,
    alertness.

    Henk

    Your post prompted me to listen to some late Arrau, and these lines of that Shakespeare sonnet came to mind.

    In me thou see'st the glowing of such fire
    That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,

    I like to watch flames, and I like the glowing embers too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 05:25:07 2023
    On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:08:41 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 03:24:48 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness, energy,
    alertness.

    Henk


    That time of year thou may'st in me behold
    When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang
    Upon those boughs which shake against the cold,
    Bare ruin'd choirs, where late the sweet birds sang.
    In me thou see'st the twilight of such day,
    As after sunset fadeth in the west,
    Which by-and-by black night doth take away,
    Death's second self, that seals up all in rest.
    In me thou see'st the glowing of such fire
    That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
    As the death-bed whereon it must expire
    Consum'd with that which it was nourish'd by.
    This thou perceivest, which makes thy love more strong,
    To love that well which thou must leave ere long

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AB@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 10:43:56 2023
    On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:08:41 AM UTC-4, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 03:24:48 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness, energy,
    alertness.

    Henk

    when I took lessons with Anievas (we were in our late 50s) we spoke about that, he also said that.........

    AB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 23:05:09 2023
    HT a formul ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.

    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 14:49:34 2023
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 28 18:15:56 2023
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound >>> far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk


    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea translates to
    any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting), the
    semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Fri Apr 28 19:58:24 2023
    On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:27:04 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
    On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:08:41 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 03:24:48 UTC+2 schreef gggg gggg:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their interpretations lose sharpness,
    energy, alertness.

    Henk
    Your post prompted me to listen to some late Arrau, and these lines of that Shakespeare sonnet came to mind.
    In me thou see'st the glowing of such fire
    That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
    I like to watch flames, and I like the glowing embers too.

    The following article on Shakespeare says:

    - This old age style can only evolve over the decades as the creative mind seeks newer and more lasting forms of self-expression.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201407/great-shakespeare-quotes-inspire-us-age-creatively#:~:text=These%20include%20praise%20of%20an,words%20that%3A%20%E2%80%9CWith%20mirth%20and

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 29 02:44:15 2023
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link >>> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea translates to
    any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting), the semester
    climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.

    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "looking
    into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:43:38 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their >>> interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "
    looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44

    I heard Richter give a Mozart recital in London in the early 1990s, it appeared on Philips. I’ve not checked but I think this is taken from it.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd09lzBtryg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 29 03:36:38 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link >>> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of >> deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea translates
    to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting), the
    semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "looking
    into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk

    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:39:03 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their >>> interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea translates
    to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting), the
    semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "looking
    into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes

    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:37:01 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their >>> interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea translates
    to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting), the
    semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "looking
    into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes

    . . . is here

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZIpukiSQQ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:55:03 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:52:41 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:46:00 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to >> decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It
    sounds routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "
    looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44
    This is Leonhardt’s final commercially released recording - and it’s a doozy. Forqueray.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyEQg3T6E8&pp=ygUURm9ycXVlcmF5IGxlb25oYXJkdCA%3D
    And Geoffrey Douglas Madge’s Art of the Fugue

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4OB54229kiuUk1-bBCqhrVE8o-yFg01I

    And Toyahiko Satoh’s Iki

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OILmiCGDZFg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:45:58 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their >>> interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It sounds
    routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "
    looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44

    This is Leonhardt’s final commercially released recording - and it’s a doozy. Forqueray.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyEQg3T6E8&pp=ygUURm9ycXVlcmF5IGxlb25oYXJkdCA%3D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:57:23 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:52:41 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:46:00 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to >> decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It
    sounds routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "
    looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44
    This is Leonhardt’s final commercially released recording - and it’s a doozy. Forqueray.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyEQg3T6E8&pp=ygUURm9ycXVlcmF5IGxlb25oYXJkdCA%3D
    And Geoffrey Douglas Madge’s Art of the Fugue

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4OB54229kiuUk1-bBCqhrVE8o-yFg01I

    And Blandine Verlet’s final François Couperin - this is all I can see on YouTube


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VWP-fLk09S4&pp=ygUZVmVybGV0IGNvdXBlcmluIGZyYW5jb2lzIA%3D%3D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 29 03:50:07 2023
    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 03:52:39 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:46:00 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to >> decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It
    sounds routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "
    looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44
    This is Leonhardt’s final commercially released recording - and it’s a doozy. Forqueray.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyEQg3T6E8&pp=ygUURm9ycXVlcmF5IGxlb25oYXJkdCA%3D

    And Geoffrey Douglas Madge’s Art of the Fugue

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4OB54229kiuUk1-bBCqhrVE8o-yFg01I

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 04:02:26 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:57:26 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:52:41 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:46:00 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose. It
    sounds routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example, "
    looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44
    This is Leonhardt’s final commercially released recording - and it’s a doozy. Forqueray.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyEQg3T6E8&pp=ygUURm9ycXVlcmF5IGxlb25oYXJkdCA%3D
    And Geoffrey Douglas Madge’s Art of the Fugue

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4OB54229kiuUk1-bBCqhrVE8o-yFg01I
    And Blandine Verlet’s final François Couperin - this is all I can see on YouTube


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VWP-fLk09S4&pp=ygUZVmVybGV0IGNvdXBlcmluIGZyYW5jb2lzIA%3D%3D

    Terrible sound, but it’s magic. Sofronitsky in Liszt and Debussy at the museum

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv7VjKrMPOg&pp=ygUZU29mcm9uaXRza3kgbXVzZXVtIGxpc3p0IA%3D%3D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AB@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 10:51:58 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:02:30 AM UTC-4, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:57:26 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:52:41 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:46:00 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:39:06 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:36:40 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:44:17 AM UTC+1, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 29 april 2023 om 00:16:12 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
    On 4/28/2023 5:49 PM, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 23:05:15 UTC+2 schreef MELMOTH:
    HT a formulé ce vendredi :
    If you are older than 60, you'd better not listen to the missing link
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TIsIp6YK8). Even the best pianists sound
    far worse when they pass that line. It's not just technique. Their
    interpretations lose sharpness, energy, alertness.
    They do not "lose" anything!... It seems normal to me that the fact of
    deepening, of digging their vision of the work involves them to
    decrease the tempo of it...
    Since when is speed synonymous with quality ?!

    Do you really think that, for example, old Rubinstein's De Falla is 'deeper' than the younger version?
    If so, how do you define 'deep'?

    In general, speed isn't synonymous with quality. In certain circumstances, it may be a quality. When you play a Brahms Paganini étude, like ABM. However, my problem with the older ABM version isn't the speed, but the lack of purpose.
    It sounds routinelike.

    In my experience, age rarely creates deeper minds. The 'deepest' minds are young. They haven't yet found a convenient answer to their (musical or otherwise) questions.

    Henk
    I can clear this up easily. As an undergraduate, I took a course titled "Philosophy of the Arts." The main thing we did during the course of the semester was to figure out what constitutes "good" art. We focused on painting, but the idea
    translates to any other art form. After rejecting the idea that "a good painting is one that has any blue in it," and "a good painting is one that does what the artist intends it to do (rejected by asking what if the artist wants to paint a bad painting),
    the semester climaxed with the professor telling us the answer:

    A good painting is one that satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about what constitutes good painting."

    Hope that helps.
    There is a slight difference. 'Good' refers to how something should be. For example, "you are a good boy". Hence, the criteria you mention. 'Deep' refers to being closer to how things are - and therefore having a better insight. For example,
    "looking into someone's soul is deeper than looking into someone's eyes". The problem is why we believe that the soul is closer to how someone is than the eyes. The problem with Melmoth's 'deep' is why age would bring us closer to how the music is.

    Henk
    Cherkassky’s 1992 Symphonic Etudes
    And here’s Horowitz final Hamburg concert - I remember a good Dichter Spricht

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhXCTqXh44
    This is Leonhardt’s final commercially released recording - and it’s a doozy. Forqueray.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyEQg3T6E8&pp=ygUURm9ycXVlcmF5IGxlb25oYXJkdCA%3D
    And Geoffrey Douglas Madge’s Art of the Fugue

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4OB54229kiuUk1-bBCqhrVE8o-yFg01I
    And Blandine Verlet’s final François Couperin - this is all I can see on YouTube


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VWP-fLk09S4&pp=ygUZVmVybGV0IGNvdXBlcmluIGZyYW5jb2lzIA%3D%3D
    Terrible sound, but it’s magic. Sofronitsky in Liszt and Debussy at the museum

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv7VjKrMPOg&pp=ygUZU29mcm9uaXRza3kgbXVzZXVtIGxpc3p0IA%3D%3D

    sound is fine, piano is terrible. why did he play on an untuned piano?

    AB


    ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 29 13:33:05 2023
    Thanks for the links. I enjoyed most of them. There was much wisdom in Horowitz' programming. The same goes for Madge, who as a young man played the same repertoire as Hamelin did a few decades ago.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sat Apr 29 19:15:51 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:50:10 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    I think this may be better than any of the other versions that I currently have... those being Brendel, Buchbinder and Richter. The Richter would be great except that the recording is crap... and I just cannot tolerate that... Uchida's interpretation is
    on another level, to my old ears.

    As always, YMMV...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Sat Apr 29 21:17:22 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:50:10 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    I think this may be better than any of the other versions that I currently have...
    those being Brendel, Buchbinder and Richter. The Richter would be great except that the recording is crap... and I just cannot tolerate that... Uchida's interpretation is on another level, to my old ears.

    As always, YMMV...

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    https://youtu.be/pAI4-9yc6kA

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Sat Apr 29 21:21:05 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    Richter would be great except that the recording is crap...

    There are several Richter recordings of the Diabellicals,
    all from live performances. Which one are you referring
    to?

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sat Apr 29 21:19:33 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:17:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:50:10 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    I think this may be better than any of the other versions that I currently have...
    those being Brendel, Buchbinder and Richter. The Richter would be great except that the recording is crap... and I just cannot tolerate that... Uchida's interpretation is on another level, to my old ears.

    As always, YMMV...
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    https://youtu.be/pAI4-9yc6kA


    And of course Schnabel: https://youtu.be/F7SdHbKwtUI

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 30 00:34:55 2023
    On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 5:19:36 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:17:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:50:10 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    I think this may be better than any of the other versions that I currently have...
    those being Brendel, Buchbinder and Richter. The Richter would be great except that the recording is crap... and I just cannot tolerate that... Uchida's interpretation is on another level, to my old ears.

    As always, YMMV...
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    https://youtu.be/pAI4-9yc6kA

    And of course Schnabel: https://youtu.be/F7SdHbKwtUI

    dk

    Boring!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Sun Apr 30 03:32:07 2023
    On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 12:34:58 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
    On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 5:19:36 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:17:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:50:10 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    I think this may be better than any of the other versions that I currently have...
    those being Brendel, Buchbinder and Richter. The Richter would be great
    except that the recording is crap... and I just cannot tolerate that...
    Uchida's interpretation is on another level, to my old ears.

    As always, YMMV...

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    https://youtu.be/pAI4-9yc6kA

    And of course Schnabel: https://youtu.be/F7SdHbKwtUI

    Boring!

    Not at all when compared
    to Brendull or Buchbinder.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 30 20:05:14 2023
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:21:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    Richter would be great except that the recording is crap...

    There are several Richter recordings of the Diabellicals,
    all from live performances. Which one are you referring
    to?

    Recorded on June 1st, 1970 in Venice, Italy, released on the Music and Arts label

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 30 20:08:44 2023
    On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 3:32:10 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 12:34:58 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
    On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 5:19:36 AM UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:17:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 7:15:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:50:10 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    An example of old person’s wisdom: Mitsuko Uchida’s Diabelli Variations

    https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mvIv9vlO3kHREAwR_2vIWUvt9Jt-QK2hI

    I think this may be better than any of the other versions that I currently have...
    those being Brendel, Buchbinder and Richter. The Richter would be great
    except that the recording is crap... and I just cannot tolerate that...
    Uchida's interpretation is on another level, to my old ears.

    As always, YMMV...

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    https://youtu.be/pAI4-9yc6kA

    And of course Schnabel: https://youtu.be/F7SdHbKwtUI

    Boring!

    Not at all when compared
    to Brendull or Buchbinder.

    Yeah, I was fairly happy with either of Brendel or Buchbinder, either of whom can play all the notes flawlessly, until I heard these Uchida tracks... a whole new level, for me...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 30 23:50:28 2023
    On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:24:48 PM UTC-7, wrote:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    According to this Amazon customer review:

    - ...There's a sense of adventure and discovery that is somewhat absent in Rubinstein's later recordings (not to mention those of certain note perfect automatons).

    https://www.amazon.com/Icon-Chopin-Recordings-ARTHUR-RUBINSTEIN/dp/B0032700TY

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 1 07:57:16 2023
    On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:24:48 PM UTC-7, wrote:
    (2023 Y. upload)

    According to this:

    - ...Horowitz made some of his finest recordings during the sixties and early seventies for Columbia Masterworks, with Frost as his producer. The piano sound on these recordings was less percussive and more mellow and the pace less frantic and more
    relaxed than in many of Horowitz's earlier recordings for RCA. Reviewers believed that his Columbia Masterwork recordings reflected a growing maturity in his artistry...

    https://books.google.com/books?id=mfx4PaeL1nUC&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=%22horowitz%27s+earlier+recordings%22&source=bl&ots=hPvcv1_gH7&sig=ACfU3U0ds8ep81fjb2e3kRcAVjWkA2VBJw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwits4afrtT-AhXOD0QIHf5LAdEQ6AF6BAgfEAM#v=onepage&q=%22horowitz'
    s%20earlier%20recordings%22&f=false

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)