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  • =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_10_pianists_play_the_opening_=22chaos=22_of_Alb=C3=A9ni

    From HT@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 7 02:12:27 2023
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 7 15:16:35 2023
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:12:30 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.

    You didn't like Gustavo Diaz Jerez ?!?
    IMHO he makes more music out of it
    than all the others, and he makes all
    the lines and the strands very clear.
    Even the pluteds can hear every note!

    The selections in this comparison also
    show the various Russian pianists are
    completely clueless about Albeniz'
    style.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Fri Apr 7 23:08:52 2023
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 3:16:39 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:12:30 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.

    You didn't like Gustavo Diaz Jerez ?!?
    IMHO he makes more music out of it
    than all the others, and he makes all
    the lines and the strands very clear.
    Even the pluteds can hear every note!

    The selections in this comparison also
    show the various Russian pianists are
    completely clueless about Albeniz'
    style.

    BTW Esteban Sanchez was missing
    from the compilation:

    https://youtu.be/cQEIf0TFX6c

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Fri Apr 7 23:16:25 2023
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 11:08:55 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 3:16:39 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:12:30 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.

    You didn't like Gustavo Diaz Jerez ?!?
    IMHO he makes more music out of it
    than all the others, and he makes all
    the lines and the strands very clear.
    Even the pluteds can hear every note!

    The selections in this comparison also
    show the various Russian pianists are
    completely clueless about Albeniz'
    style.

    BTW Esteban Sanchez was missing
    from the compilation:

    https://youtu.be/cQEIf0TFX6c

    Also worth noting is Jose Falgarona:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETOibSwZXy0&t=2900s

    Leopoldo Querol and Jose Falgarona
    made the first two recordings of the
    complete Ibera cycle, before Alicia
    De Larrocha. Their approach to the
    score is more angular and "spicey"
    than De Larrocha's, who smoothes
    things far too much for my taste.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 8 07:28:02 2023
    Op zaterdag 8 april 2023 om 00:16:39 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:12:30 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.
    You didn't like Gustavo Diaz Jerez ?!?
    IMHO he makes more music out of it
    than all the others, and he makes all
    the lines and the strands very clear.
    Even the pluteds can hear every note!

    The selections in this comparison also
    show the various Russian pianists are
    completely clueless about Albeniz'
    style.

    Yes, I did like Jerez but I like Orozco better. Also, whenever I want to listen to a crystal clear version I revisit Sabater.

    I don't listen to YW, Hamelin and Lugansky to hear a stylish or very personal rendering of whatever. That has little to do with being non-Latin. Syomin has recorded one of the most idiosyncratic versions of the Iberia, and I really like it.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 8 15:54:51 2023
    On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 8 april 2023 om 00:16:39 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:12:30 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.

    You didn't like Gustavo Diaz Jerez ?!?
    IMHO he makes more music out of it
    than all the others, and he makes all
    the lines and the strands very clear.
    Even the pluteds can hear every note!

    The selections in this comparison also
    show the various Russian pianists are
    completely clueless about Albeniz'
    style.

    Yes, I did like Jerez

    Thanks!

    but I like Orozco better.

    The performance included in the comparison
    was not his best. This one is:

    https://youtu.be/R13GcRQSPxU?t=3465

    It appears however to be a studio recording.
    It is very good, however his phrasing is less
    flexible than Gustavo Diaz Jerez'..

    Also, whenever I want to listen to a crystal
    clear version I revisit Sabater.

    Unfortunately she plays blandissimo and
    does not quite have the technique needed
    to pull off Lavapies. There are far better
    versions that the author of the compilation
    ignored or forgot.

    Artur Pizarro:
    https://youtu.be/CBT1nG23YxQ?t=3415

    Jose Maria Pinzolas:
    https://youtu.be/N_IETC4Opc0?t=3570

    Miguel Baselga:
    https://youtu.be/f7cMd3m_lzo

    Guillermo Gonzales:
    https://youtu.be/K3s5D18IufM

    I don't listen to YW, Hamelin and Lugansky to
    hear a stylish or very personal rendering of
    whatever. That has little to do with being
    non-Latin.

    It has a lot to do with not understanding
    organically the rhythms and colors of the
    Spanish language and of Spanish music.

    Language shapes thought and thought
    shapes language. Language shapes
    speech and speech shapes singing
    and music. It is not difficult at all to
    identify such traits through repeated
    attentive listening.

    Syomin has recorded one of the
    most idiosyncratic versions of
    the Iberia,

    A horrible version. Kidney pie and
    borscht. He plays it as if it were a
    Chopin or Liszt Etude -- smooth,
    flowing, uninflected:

    https://youtu.be/1Aa6pimnD_I

    and I really like it.

    No one will argue with your rights
    to self torture.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 8 15:45:59 2023
    On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op zaterdag 8 april 2023 om 00:16:39 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:12:30 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op vrijdag 7 april 2023 om 10:50:55 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    Orozco.

    You didn't like Gustavo Diaz Jerez ?!?
    IMHO he makes more music out of it
    than all the others, and he makes all
    the lines and the strands very clear.
    Even the pluteds can hear every note!

    The selections in this comparison also
    show the various Russian pianists are
    completely clueless about Albeniz'
    style.

    Yes, I did like Jerez

    Thanks!

    but I like Orozco better.

    The performance included in the comparison
    was not his best. This one is:

    https://youtu.be/R13GcRQSPxU?t=3465

    It appears however to be a studio recording.
    It is very good, however his phrasing is less
    flexible than Rafael Orozco's.

    Also, whenever I want to listen to a crystal
    clear version I revisit Sabater.

    Unfortunately she plays blandissimo and
    does not quite have the technique needed
    to pull off Lavapies. There are far better
    versions that the author of the compilation
    ignored or forgot.

    Artur Pizarro:
    https://youtu.be/CBT1nG23YxQ?t=3415

    Jose Maria Pinzolas:
    https://youtu.be/N_IETC4Opc0?t=3570

    Miguel Baselga:
    https://youtu.be/f7cMd3m_lzo

    Guillermo Gonzales:
    https://youtu.be/K3s5D18IufM

    I don't listen to YW, Hamelin and Lugansky to
    hear a stylish or very personal rendering of
    whatever. That has little to do with being
    non-Latin.

    It has a lot to do with not understanding
    organically the rhythms and colors of the
    Spanish language and of Spanish music.

    Language shapes thought and thought
    shapes language. Language shapes
    speech and speech shapes singing
    and music. It is not difficult at all to
    identify such traits through repeated
    attentive listening.

    Syomin has recorded one of the
    most idiosyncratic versions of
    the Iberia,

    A horrible version. Kidney pie and
    borscht.

    and I really like it.

    No one will argue with your rights
    to self torture.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From number_six@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 9 21:04:39 2023
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 1:50:55 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    TIA
    I agree Diaz Jerez plays with clarity but for me the dissonance has the sharpest bite in ADL (maybe because she is up first?) and MAH. Of these, Hamelin was my top pick.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 9 21:09:25 2023
    On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:04:42 PM UTC-7, number_six wrote:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 1:50:55 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    I agree Diaz Jerez plays with clarity but for me the dissonance has
    the sharpest bite in ADL (maybe because she is up first?) and MAH.

    Have you checked the otther links I posted to recordings made by
    Spanish pianists who were not present in the comparison list?
    Most of them bring out dissonances more clearly than AdL.

    Of these, Hamelin was my top pick.

    MEH, he doesn't get the music. He plays it fast and uninflected.
    Just listen to the rhythmic inflections in the hands of Spanish
    pianists.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 9 21:43:53 2023
    On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:37:34 PM UTC-7, number_six wrote:

    As for the music itself, I hear a strong evocation of
    the polonaise -- but the composer shows right out
    of the gate we are in for no ordinary polonaise!

    ?!?!?!? This is Spanish music. No polonaises in sight.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From number_six@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 9 22:05:40 2023
    On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:43:56 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:37:34 PM UTC-7, number_six wrote:

    As for the music itself, I hear a strong evocation of
    the polonaise -- but the composer shows right out
    of the gate we are in for no ordinary polonaise!
    ?!?!?!? This is Spanish music. No polonaises in sight.

    dk
    Yes it's Spanish -- but I hear an homage to Chopin's A-flat major nonetheless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From number_six@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 9 21:37:31 2023
    On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:09:28 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:04:42 PM UTC-7, number_six wrote:
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 1:50:55 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    https://youtu.be/mWLjuyBctl8

    Whom do you prefer?

    Caveat: some sections are VERY loud!

    I agree Diaz Jerez plays with clarity but for me the dissonance has
    the sharpest bite in ADL (maybe because she is up first?) and MAH.
    Have you checked the otther links I posted to recordings made by
    Spanish pianists who were not present in the comparison list?
    Most of them bring out dissonances more clearly than AdL.

    Not yet but intend to.

    As for the music itself, I hear a strong evocation of the polonaise -- but the composer shows right out of the gate we are in for no ordinary polonaise!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 10 01:46:50 2023
    On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 7:28:04 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:

    whenever I want to listen to a crystal
    clear version I revisit Sabater.

    She struggles:

    https://youtu.be/oWWW4hEKCF0?t=3345

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 10 02:57:18 2023
    Op maandag 10 april 2023 om 10:46:53 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:

    She struggles:

    https://youtu.be/oWWW4hEKCF0?t=3345

    It's part of the music. Sabater manages to keep her performance crystal clear as well as expressive.

    BTW, it's quite some time ago, but I remember liking Hiromi Okada's Iberia (as well as his Debussy études). I must have these CDs somewhere and revisit them.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 10 08:07:02 2023
    On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 2:57:21 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op maandag 10 april 2023 om 10:46:53 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:

    She struggles:

    https://youtu.be/oWWW4hEKCF0?t=3345

    It's part of the music. Sabater manages to keep
    her performance crystal clear as well as expressive.

    Let's be serious. It is not "part of the music".
    It is obvious to anyone who understands piano
    performance and is familiar with the score that
    she struggles and can barely navigate the score.
    One does not hear similar strain in rhe hands of
    Sanchez, Orozco, Diaz Jerez, or a few others I
    mentioned. And she also has a monochromatic
    sound -- no colors or texture.

    BTW, it's quite some time ago, but I remember
    liking Hiromi Okada's Iberia (as well as his
    Debussy études). I must have these CDs
    somewhere and revisit them.

    Yes indeed. A bunch of japanese pianists are
    championing Iberia: Hiromi Okada'. Kotaro
    Fukuma, etc... and are doing an excellent
    job. I find it surprising that they are more
    capable of absorbing the style of the work
    than many Western pianists.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mqgGNBZWuvnwrJyrSUlUnyxs43jW5t3l4

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Mon Apr 10 09:24:16 2023
    On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 8:07:07 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 2:57:21 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
    Op maandag 10 april 2023 om 10:46:53 UTC+2 schreef Dan Koren:

    She struggles:

    https://youtu.be/oWWW4hEKCF0?t=3345

    It's part of the music. Sabater manages to keep
    her performance crystal clear as well as expressive.

    Let's be serious. It is not "part of the music".
    It is obvious to anyone who understands piano
    performance and is familiar with the score that
    she struggles and can barely navigate the score.
    One does not hear similar strain in rhe hands of
    Sanchez, Orozco, Diaz Jerez, or a few others I
    mentioned. And she also has a monochromatic
    sound -- no colors or texture.

    BTW, it's quite some time ago, but I remember
    liking Hiromi Okada's Iberia (as well as his
    Debussy études). I must have these CDs
    somewhere and revisit them.

    Yes indeed. A bunch of japanese pianists are
    championing Iberia: Hiromi Okada'. Kotaro
    Fukuma, etc... and are doing an excellent
    job. I find it surprising that they are more
    capable of absorbing the style of the work
    than many Western pianists.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mqgGNBZWuvnwrJyrSUlUnyxs43jW5t3l4

    Here is another Japanese pianist, Ichiro
    Kaneko, who has recorded the complete
    Iberia. He sounds less assured in Lavapies
    then Kotaro Fukuma:

    https://youtu.be/hDXomlOGQ98?t=850

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)