• Pletnev magic

    From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 21 13:26:50 2023
    https://youtu.be/zp4S5LSzUcM

    Including a cloud floating piano ;-)

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Tue Mar 21 20:27:10 2023
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:26:53 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    https://youtu.be/zp4S5LSzUcM

    Including a cloud floating piano ;-)

    Very nice... just like maybe 60 or 70 other versions out there, a lot of competition for this offering.

    I myself have 3 different versions, including Berman (1973), Katsaris and Moog. They are all terrific in their own way, but the Moog *might* be the best of them all... but then, unlike you, Dan, I am usually quite easy to please.

    Give this fellow a listen...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+joseph+moog+chopin+sonata+3%2C+playlist

    https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Sonatas-Joseph-Moog/dp/B01HSFG6KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VX3YOZCKPA40&keywords=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonatas&qid=1679455020&sprefix=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonata%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

    What do you think?

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Tue Mar 21 21:58:47 2023
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 8:27:13 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    Give this fellow a listen...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+joseph+moog+chopin+sonata+3%2C+playlist

    https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Sonatas-Joseph-Moog/dp/B01HSFG6KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VX3YOZCKPA40&keywords=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonatas&qid=1679455020&sprefix=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonata%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

    What do you think?

    Well familiar, I don't like his tone. I
    also have some misgivings about
    Pletnev's tone lately when he plays
    Shigeru Kawaii instruments. I wish
    he would switch to Bluthners or to
    Bosies.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Tue Mar 21 22:12:25 2023
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:58:50 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 8:27:13 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    Give this fellow a listen...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+joseph+moog+chopin+sonata+3%2C+playlist

    https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Sonatas-Joseph-Moog/dp/B01HSFG6KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VX3YOZCKPA40&keywords=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonatas&qid=1679455020&sprefix=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonata%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

    What do you think?

    Well familiar, I don't like his tone. I
    also have some misgivings about
    Pletnev's tone lately when he plays
    Shigeru Kawaii instruments. I wish
    he would switch to Bluthners or to
    Bosies.


    Just checked again to make sure I
    did not mix things up. Moog's op. 58
    sounds very harsh to my ears. Steely
    tone, no color, rhythmically inflexible,
    played as if in a piano competition.

    Sorry to disappoint. Performing
    Chopin on Steinways should be
    outlawed.

    dk

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  • From Al Eisner@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Mar 22 16:22:45 2023
    On Tue, 21 Mar 2023, Dan Koren wrote:

    https://youtu.be/zp4S5LSzUcM

    Including a cloud floating piano ;-)

    Thanks. I prefer more flow and perhaps a more ringing tine in #1,
    but #2 and his rather dark #3 strike me as quite remarkable (at least interpretively). Somewhat annoying rumblinb reverberation.
    --
    Al Eisner

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Wed Mar 22 23:10:30 2023
    On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 3:27:13 AM UTC, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:26:53 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    https://youtu.be/zp4S5LSzUcM

    Including a cloud floating piano ;-)
    Very nice... just like maybe 60 or 70 other versions out there, a lot of competition for this offering.

    I myself have 3 different versions, including Berman (1973), Katsaris and Moog. They are all terrific in their own way, but the Moog *might* be the best of them all... but then, unlike you, Dan, I am usually quite easy to please.

    Give this fellow a listen...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+joseph+moog+chopin+sonata+3%2C+playlist

    https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Sonatas-Joseph-Moog/dp/B01HSFG6KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VX3YOZCKPA40&keywords=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonatas&qid=1679455020&sprefix=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonata%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

    What do you think?

    Thanks for mentioning Moog. I’d heard the Chopin when it came out, and thought at the level of interpretation it wasn’t specially interesting for me - no doubt technically it is excellent. I felt the same when I went back to it yesterday. However I’
    ve just found his Debussy Etudes and that seems quite Interesting.

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Al Eisner on Thu Mar 23 04:24:13 2023
    On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 11:22:55 PM UTC, Al Eisner wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Mar 2023, Dan Koren wrote:

    https://youtu.be/zp4S5LSzUcM

    Including a cloud floating piano ;-)
    Thanks. I prefer more flow and perhaps a more ringing tine in #1,
    but #2 and his rather dark #3 strike me as quite remarkable (at least interpretively). Somewhat annoying rumblinb reverberation.
    --
    Al Eisner


    Well, we all know this is a subjective business but really, I have tried to hear anything special interpretively about Moog's sonata 3 and I didn't when it was first released and I don't now! I'll mention in passing that my favourite recording of op 58
    is a contentious one (I think!) -- Pletnev on DG. I can hear that that one is interpretively remarkable, I've loved it ever since it was first released and I was prompted to try it after hearing some negative comments from Bryce Morrison! But I may well
    have quirky ears. )

    In digging out the Moog Chopin I came across his Debussy etudes, I'll check them out later.

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  • From Al Eisner@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Thu Mar 23 17:35:25 2023
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Thu, 23 Mar 2023, Mandryka wrote:

    On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 11:22:55 PM UTC, Al Eisner wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Mar 2023, Dan Koren wrote:

    https://youtu.be/zp4S5LSzUcM

    Including a cloud floating piano ;-)
    Thanks. I prefer more flow and perhaps a more ringing tine in #1,
    but #2 and his rather dark #3 strike me as quite remarkable (at least
    interpretively). Somewhat annoying rumblinb reverberation.
    --
    Al Eisner


    Well, we all know this is a subjective business but really, I have tried to hear anything special interpretively about Moog's sonata 3 and I didn't when it was first released and I don't now! I'll mention in passing that my favourite recording of op
    58 is a contentious one (I think!) -- Pletnev on DG. I can hear that that one is interpretively remarkable, I've loved it ever since it was first released and I was prompted to try it after hearing some negative comments from Bryce Morrison! But I may
    well have quirky ears. )

    In digging out the Moog Chopin I came across his Debussy etudes, I'll check them out later.

    I think it was clear I was referring to Pletnev, not to Moog.
    --
    Al Eisner

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Thu Mar 23 18:21:06 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    I'll mention in passing that my favourite recording
    of op 58 is a contentious one (I think!) -- Pletnev
    on DG. I can hear that that one is interpretively
    remarkable, I've loved it ever since it was first
    released

    No contest! ;-)

    I was prompted to try it after hearing some
    negative comments from Bryce Morrison!

    Negative opinions from Bryce Morrison are
    automatic recommendations for me. That
    guy impersonates everything evil and ugly
    about the Gramophoney.

    But I may well have quirky ears. )

    Better quirky than deaf.

    In digging out the Moog Chopin I came
    across his Debussy etudes, I'll check
    them out later.

    Did you mean Unimoog?

    https://d9z1tpn605xsl.cloudfront.net/uploads/ckeditor/pictures/973/content_MB_Unimog_bg1.jpg

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Thu Mar 23 18:28:04 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    I'll mention in passing that my favourite recording of
    op 58 is a contentious one (I think!) -- Pletnev on DG.
    I can hear that that one is interpretively remarkable,
    I've loved it ever since it was first released

    No contest! ;-)

    I was prompted to try it after hearing some
    negative comments from Bryce Morrison!

    Negative comments from Bryce Morrison are
    automatic recommendations. That guy is the
    perfect example of what is dumb, stupid and
    evil about the Gramophoney. Stiff upper lip,
    no brains and no ears. Deceitful, dishonest
    and disingenous. Cannot tell C# from Db.

    But I may well have quirky ears. )

    Quirkies are far better than deaf ones.

    In digging out the Moog Chopin I came across
    his Debussy etudes, I'll check them out later.

    I wouldn't bother. He plays them like a Unimoog:

    https://www.unimog-community.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1971M33.jpg

    dk

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Mar 23 20:04:39 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 6:28:07 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    I'll mention in passing that my favourite recording of
    op 58 is a contentious one (I think!) -- Pletnev on DG.
    I can hear that that one is interpretively remarkable,
    I've loved it ever since it was first released
    No contest! ;-)
    I was prompted to try it after hearing some
    negative comments from Bryce Morrison!
    Negative comments from Bryce Morrison are
    automatic recommendations. That guy is the
    perfect example of what is dumb, stupid and
    evil about the Gramophoney. Stiff upper lip,
    no brains and no ears. Deceitful, dishonest
    and disingenous. Cannot tell C# from Db.
    But I may well have quirky ears. )
    Quirkies are far better than deaf ones.
    In digging out the Moog Chopin I came across
    his Debussy etudes, I'll check them out later.
    I wouldn't bother. He plays them like a Unimoog:

    https://www.unimog-community.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1971M33.jpg

    dk

    But Unimogs are spectacular back-country vehicles, why would you want to disparage them?

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Mar 23 20:22:46 2023
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:58:50 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 8:27:13 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    Give this fellow a listen...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+joseph+moog+chopin+sonata+3%2C+playlist

    https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Sonatas-Joseph-Moog/dp/B01HSFG6KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VX3YOZCKPA40&keywords=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonatas&qid=1679455020&sprefix=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonata%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

    What do you think?

    Well familiar, I don't like his tone.

    His tone? I am clueless as to what you mean by this. The tone of the piano? The tone of his playing on any piano? If it were any other instrument I could understand, but what you claim is foreign to me.

    I listened to Plenev and to Moog, about 1 minute at a time, back and forth between the 2 of them, and while I could tell there was a slight difference between them, I could not say for sure which I preferred. They were both just fine, even better than
    fine, they were both great. Like I said before, I am very east to please and rarely despise any performance, and even then that is usually due to inferior recording qualities... I can't take much of poor recordings, so higly regarded recordins of the 20'
    s and 30's and 40's often leave me less than happy, no matter how great the performance itself.

    If you dislike Moog because of his "tone" then I pity you, because you enjoy a lot fewer performances than I do! Sucks to be you!

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Thu Mar 23 21:57:12 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 8:04:42 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 6:28:07 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 4:24:16 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    In digging out the Moog Chopin I came across
    his Debussy etudes, I'll check them out later.
    I wouldn't bother. He plays them like a Unimoog:

    https://www.unimog-community.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1971M33.jpg

    But Unimogs are spectacular back-country vehicles,
    why would you want to disparage them?

    Unimogs are great off-road vehicles, but
    they are no particularly well suited to
    playing Chopin. I am not disparaging
    the vehicle. I am only evaluating the
    pianist. ;-)

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Thu Mar 23 22:12:10 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 8:22:49 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:58:50 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 8:27:13 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    Give this fellow a listen...

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+joseph+moog+chopin+sonata+3%2C+playlist

    https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Sonatas-Joseph-Moog/dp/B01HSFG6KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VX3YOZCKPA40&keywords=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonatas&qid=1679455020&sprefix=joseph+moog+chopin+piano+sonata%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

    What do you think?

    Well familiar, I don't like his tone.

    His tone? I am clueless as to what you mean by this.

    Ask your piano teacher for a quick tutorial.

    The tone of the piano? The tone of his playing on
    any piano? If it were any other instrument I could
    understand, but what you claim is foreign to me.

    You need more piano and listening training. The
    "tone" of a pianist is the sounds the pianist tends
    to produce every time they play. It is a function of
    how notes ara attacked, held and released, of how
    the pedal is applied, held and releasted (if at all),
    how the sound resonates in the acousti space
    where the workl was performed and recorded.
    It takes time and training to learn how to
    recognize and analyze the tone of a pianist.

    I listened to Plenev and to Moog, about 1 minute
    at a time, back and forth between the 2 of them,
    and while I could tell there was a slight difference
    between them,

    SLIGHT ?!? OMG !!! It is night and day.

    I could not say for sure which I preferred.

    That is a different matter altogether. One may like
    or dislike the tone, and one may like or dislike the
    interpretation (or whatever). These are different
    aspects, even if not completely unrelated.

    They were both just fine, even better than fine,
    they were both great. Like I said before,

    To your ears. Not to other people's ears.

    I am very east to please and rarely despise any
    performance, and even then that is usually due
    to inferior recording qualities...

    See? Your ears need additional training.

    I can't take much of poor recordings, so higly
    regarded recordins of the 20's and 30's and
    40's often leave me less than happy, no
    matter how great the performance itself.

    Then you are clearly not interested in music.

    If you dislike Moog because of his "tone"

    I disliked Moog for other reasons than just
    his tone. His "intepretation" is completely
    mechanical.

    Here are other op. 58s. See if you hear the
    differences in tone, phrasing, articulation,
    texture and color:

    https://youtu.be/C-4H_57BW_o

    https://youtu.be/LMeqaxs5UwI

    https://youtu.be/lFuuBmimgQ8

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Fri Mar 24 04:00:19 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:12:13 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:

    I disliked Moog for other reasons than just
    his tone. His "intepretation" is completely
    mechanical.

    Here are other op. 58s. See if you hear the
    differences in tone, phrasing, articulation,
    texture and color:

    https://youtu.be/C-4H_57BW_o

    https://youtu.be/LMeqaxs5UwI

    https://youtu.be/lFuuBmimgQ8


    Here's another one to try:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5evycct4n1lkz7l/Chopin%20Sonata%20No%203%20op%2058.m4a?dl=0

    Please let us know what you think about
    the sound and the tone of this pianist.

    dk

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