Dan Koren schrieb am Freitag, 10. Februar 2023 um 03:31:18 UTC+1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Horrible. Beethoven is not Chopin...
My favorites:
Schnabel + Solomon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omJtVvjgoPU
Rubinstein + Krips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAT0k0LCDj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
dk
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 10:43:32 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
Dan Koren schrieb am Freitag, 10. Februar 2023 um 03:31:18 UTC+1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Horrible. Beethoven is not Chopin...It doesn't matter who or what is Beethoven.
Performing arts are not historical reconstruction,
no matter what you and your Adorno think.
My favorites:
Schnabel + Solomon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omJtVvjgoPU
Rubinstein + Krips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAT0k0LCDj4Your favorites are old hat. You really
need to cleanse your ears with bleach.
dk
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
dk
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine. And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz.
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine. And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz.
How about this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHxXVfrtBPQ
dk
On Fri, 10 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine. And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz.
How about this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHxXVfrtBPQ
I'll check it out when I have a chance.
Pletnev is generally at least interesting.
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.Good to hear.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
dk
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 1:10:41 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.Good to hear.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
yes, at times very beautiful, top treble a bit
thin, whose 1st movement cadenza is it?
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-8, AB wrote:
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 1:10:41 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:Good to hear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
yes, at times very beautiful, top treble a bit
thin, whose 1st movement cadenza is it?
Moravec's own?
dk
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 1:10:41 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.Good to hear.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
dkyes, at times very beautiful, top treble a bit thin, whose 1st movement cadenza is it?
AB
AB schrieb am Montag, 13. Februar 2023 um 20:23:46 UTC+1:pianists among Schnabel, Rubinstein and Michelangeli (Not sure if I would rank Argerich, Horowitz, Sofronitsky, Gieseking, Feinberg, Volodos, Sokolov as high yet - Pletnev is pretty much out of question for me; and I am also not so sure about Richter and
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 1:10:41 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.Good to hear.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
BTW I was recently again looking for Bach recordings I haven't listened to, and stumbled upon your post mentioning Gould wrt English Suites, and I have been really enjoying No 2 the past few days. I have to say, Gould is now one of my favouritedkyes, at times very beautiful, top treble a bit thin, whose 1st movement cadenza is it?
AB
So the sense of this post was: I wanted to redeem myself from old Gould bashings, and also thank you for unwittingly helping me in getting clear about Gould -- and I also ranked my pianists... Can you think of other pianists I might like? Or Dan couldyou? No mediocrities please.
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 14. Februar 2023 um 00:27:32 UTC+1:pianists among Schnabel, Rubinstein and Michelangeli (Not sure if I would rank Argerich, Horowitz, Sofronitsky, Gieseking, Feinberg, Volodos, Sokolov as high yet - Pletnev is pretty much out of question for me; and I am also not so sure about Richter and
AB schrieb am Montag, 13. Februar 2023 um 20:23:46 UTC+1:
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 1:10:41 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.Good to hear.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
BTW I was recently again looking for Bach recordings I haven't listened to, and stumbled upon your post mentioning Gould wrt English Suites, and I have been really enjoying No 2 the past few days. I have to say, Gould is now one of my favouritedkyes, at times very beautiful, top treble a bit thin, whose 1st movement cadenza is it?
AB
could you? No mediocrities please.So the sense of this post was: I wanted to redeem myself from old Gould bashings, and also thank you for unwittingly helping me in getting clear about Gould -- and I also ranked my pianists... Can you think of other pianists I might like? Or Dan
Hmmm... thinking about it, Michelangeli and Rubinstein belong in the brackets, I guess - to Argerich etc; Schnabel and Gould I am very sure about being my favourite pianists.
I can't really think of any other pianists that would come close to the ones I named... can anyone else? No Kempff in the case of Arri, No Afanassiev in the case of DK please.
On 2/13/2023 6:09 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-8, AB wrote:
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 1:10:41 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, Dan Koren wrote:Good to hear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
Also a favorite of mine.
And, by the way, of Dave Hurwitz."Official" opinions don'r count ;-)
yes, at times very beautiful, top treble a bit
thin, whose 1st movement cadenza is it?
Moravec's own?
dk
Nope. Beethoven's.
Beethoven wrote two cadenza for the first movenent. I
recall seeing somewhere that Moravec used the less-
frequentky played of the two, but I've been unable to
refind the source for that information.
On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 3:54:13 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
Beethoven wrote two cadenza for the first movenent. I
recall seeing somewhere that Moravec used the less-
frequentky played of the two, but I've been unable to
refind the source for that information.
Has any other pianist played and/or recorded it?
dk
On 2/14/2023 7:13 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 3:54:13 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
Beethoven wrote two cadenza for the first movenent. I
recall seeing somewhere that Moravec used the less-
frequentky played of the two, but I've been unable to
refind the source for that information.
Has any other pianist played and/or recorded it?
According to this, Brendel, Giesking and Gilels, but it doesn't say which recordings.
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/v/vai01021a.php
On 2/14/2023 7:13 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 3:54:13 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
Beethoven wrote two cadenza for the first movenent. I
recall seeing somewhere that Moravec used the less-
frequentky played of the two, but I've been unable to
refind the source for that information.
Has any other pianist played and/or recorded it?
dk
According to this, Brendel, Giesking and Gilels, but it doesn't say which recordings.
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/v/vai01021a.php
On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Frank Berger wrote:
On 2/14/2023 7:13 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 3:54:13 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
Beethoven wrote two cadenza for the first movenent. I
recall seeing somewhere that Moravec used the less-
frequentky played of the two, but I've been unable to
refind the source for that information.
Has any other pianist played and/or recorded it?
dk
According to this, Brendel, Giesking and Gilels, but it doesn't say which
recordings.
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/v/vai01021a.php
There is a recording by Jerome Lowenthal which includes 21 diffeent
cadenzas for the first or third movement, but only one of LvB's own
for the first movement. All by well-known composers: https://www.allmusic.com/album/beethoven-piano-concerto-no-4-cadenzas-mw0002627987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg40 years later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwg-ze1jbkQ
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
Op vrijdag 17 februari 2023 om 23:54:53 UTC+1 schreef KimDenmark:
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
I agree. The Beethoven #4 is great. The opening bars of the
first movement and slow movement are great. "Göttlich" is
a bit much but exceptional - also to see him play.
I ask the question .....
Dan Koren a exprimé avec précision :
I ask the question .....
When you write "I ask the question",
please specify "©MELMOTH", right?
On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 3:11:37 PM UTC-8, HT wrote:
Op vrijdag 17 februari 2023 om 23:54:53 UTC+1 schreef KimDenmark:
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
I agree. The Beethoven #4 is great. The opening bars of the
first movement and slow movement are great. "Göttlich" is
a bit much but exceptional - also to see him play.
One of the ugliest piano sounds ever produced, second only
to Serkin in steeliness and lack of color, texture or volume.
Mechanical and metronome driven strict score literalist.
Not to mention he was Nazi who performed in uniform
on stage and asked the Jews to leave the concert hall.
Isn't it bizarre that people find fault with Lilsitsa, Gergiev
or Matsuev supporting Putin's regime, while dyed in the
wool Nazis like Bohm, Backhaus, Elly Ney or Kabasta
get free passes? I ask the question .....
Op zaterdag 18 februari 2023 om 00:18:24 UTC+1 schreef Dan Koren:
On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 3:11:37 PM UTC-8, HT wrote:
Op vrijdag 17 februari 2023 om 23:54:53 UTC+1 schreef KimDenmark:
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
I agree. The Beethoven #4 is great. The opening bars of the
first movement and slow movement are great. "Göttlich" is
a bit much but exceptional - also to see him play.
One of the ugliest piano sounds ever produced, second only
to Serkin in steeliness and lack of color, texture or volume.
Mechanical and metronome driven strict score literalist.
Somehow, I rather like his sound. The mechanical and
metronome part fits Beethoven and Brahms very well,
at least in his approach.
Not to mention he was Nazi who performed in uniform
on stage and asked the Jews to leave the concert hall.
True. So what? Should I only take notice of performances,
books, paintings etc. of those whose personal views I share?
Isn't it bizarre that people find fault with Lilsitsa, Gergiev
or Matsuev supporting Putin's regime, while dyed in the
wool Nazis like Bohm, Backhaus, Elly Ney or Kabasta
get free passes? I ask the question .....
After the war, most of us were trying to get our lives back
in order. We had no time to be too sensitive.
That said, I remember clearly that Elly Ney wasn't welcome
in Belgium and the Netherlands. One of my piano teachers
was a great admirer of her, and regretted it deeply.
Russian artists, on the contrary, were more than welcome,
even in the days of Stalin. Stalin 'punished' Belgium in the
late fifties for helping Russians asylum seekers by boycotting
the Queen Elisabeth competition. Thanks to Gilels and Oistrakh
that didn't last very long.
Somehow, I rather like his sound. The mechanical andMechanical, metronomic and steely may be appropriate
metronome part fits Beethoven and Brahms very well,
at least in his approach.
for the great boring, but definitely not for Brahms.
If you share Backhaus' views Marc S. will cut off your head! ;-)Not to mention he was Nazi who performed in uniformTrue. So what? Should I only take notice of performances,
on stage and asked the Jews to leave the concert hall.
books, paintings etc. of those whose personal views I share?
After the war, most of us were trying to get our lives backIn other words, back to Nazi anti-semitism as usual.
in order. We had no time to be too sensitive.
That said, I remember clearly that Elly Ney wasn't welcomeCheck her reecordings on YT -- some of the ugliest
in Belgium and the Netherlands. One of my piano teachers
was a great admirer of her, and regretted it deeply.
piano playing one can(not) imagine, even setting
aside the fact she was a Nazi bitch and officer.
Russian artists, on the contrary, were more than welcome,Russia needed an export market for its musicians
even in the days of Stalin. Stalin 'punished' Belgium in the
late fifties for helping Russians asylum seekers by boycotting
the Queen Elisabeth competition. Thanks to Gilels and Oistrakh
that didn't last very long.
to bring in hard curency.
Somehow, I rather like his sound. The mechanical and
metronome part fits Beethoven and Brahms very well,
at least in his approach.
Mechanical, metronomic and steely may be appropriate
for the great boring, but definitely not for Brahms.
If you hadn't had personal/political/ideological objections,
I would have referred to his recordings of Brahms #2.
Not to mention he was Nazi who performed in uniform
on stage and asked the Jews to leave the concert hall.
True. So what? Should I only take notice of performances,
books, paintings etc. of those whose personal views I share?
If you share Backhaus' views Marc S. will cut off your head! ;-)
He wouldn't. He's one of the good guys - but far too obsessive,
panicky and chaotic, and therefore in the end someone to avoid
(and that's a pity).
After the war, most of us were trying to get our lives
back in order. We had no time to be too sensitive.
In other words, back to Nazi anti-semitism as usual.
The Nazi's were defeated. Antisemitism remained, of
course, but the traditional kind. That changed with the
second generation of immigrants from Islamic countries.
That said, I remember clearly that Elly Ney wasn't welcome
in Belgium and the Netherlands. One of my piano teachers
was a great admirer of her, and regretted it deeply.
Check her reecordings on YT -- some of the ugliest
piano playing one can(not) imagine, even setting
aside the fact she was a Nazi bitch and officer.
Okay, I get the drift. Although I must admit that the
Mondschein played in Nazi uniform makes a very
weird picture - a reason not to revisit her.
Russian artists, on the contrary, were more than welcome,
even in the days of Stalin. Stalin 'punished' Belgium in the
late fifties for helping Russians asylum seekers by boycotting
the Queen Elisabeth competition. Thanks to Gilels and Oistrakh
that didn't last very long.
Russia needed an export market for
its musicians to bring in hard curency.
Russia still needs money, but these days we
uphold our Western 'values' in a different way.
Dan Koren schrieb am Freitag, 10. Februar 2023 um 03:31:18 UTC+1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmhhzAxVHg
dk
Horrible. Beethoven is not Chopin...
My favorites:
Schnabel + Solomon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omJtVvjgoPU
Rubinstein + Krips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAT0k0LCDj4
On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 2:00:02 AM UTC-8, HT wrote:
I am afraid I don't follow. Care to elaborate?The Nazi's were defeated. Antisemitism remained, ofAfter the war, most of us were trying to get our livesIn other words, back to Nazi anti-semitism as usual.
back in order. We had no time to be too sensitive.
course, but the traditional kind. That changed with the
second generation of immigrants from Islamic countries.
Russia still needs money, but these days we"Our" "values" ?!? Wow !!!
uphold our Western 'values' in a different way.
Yeah, I remember a much older friend, a Jewish writer whose entire oeuvre is about the War, Occupation and disappeared family members, reminiscing about reading from her work in a smallish Dutch town in 1960, to a group of women. And during the Q&A oneof these women asked her, somewhat desperately, "Why are you so different?" - meaning, Jewish. She didn't even mean this unkindly, she was just puzzled.
No problem. Nazi anti-Semitism ended abruptly as soon as the Germans had to leave Belgium and the Netherlands. That did not mean that anti-Semitism disappeared. Jews were discriminated against again as before the NSDAP made its appearance. This "traditional" form of anti-Semitism
On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 4:37:41 PM UTC+1, Herman wrote:one of these women asked her, somewhat desperately, "Why are you so different?" - meaning, Jewish. She didn't even mean this unkindly, she was just puzzled.
Yeah, I remember a much older friend, a Jewish writer whose entire oeuvre is about the War, Occupation and disappeared family members, reminiscing about reading from her work in a smallish Dutch town in 1960, to a group of women. And during the Q&A
But obviously, it is the way people send people to death camps, is what I wanted to say. Because "they're >not like us."
On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 2:54:53 PM UTC-8, KimDenmark wrote:Dan, such an delightful response.. Backhaus´ LvB 4PC is pure love and if you removed the plugs in your ears, even you would be able to hear just that.
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
You call Backhaus "joy" ?!? Why don't you call him Fuckhaus?
He butchered every note he played.
dk
Not to mention he was Nazi who performed in uniform
on stage and asked the Jews to leave the concert hall.
lørdag den 18. februar 2023 kl. 00.00.52 UTC+1 skrev Dan Koren:
On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 2:54:53 PM UTC-8, KimDenmark wrote:
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
You call Backhaus "joy" ?!? Why don't you call him Fuckhaus?
He butchered every note he played.
Dan, such an delightful response.. Backhaus´ LvB
4PC is pure love and if you removed the plugs in
your ears, even you would be able to hear just that.
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-8, KimDenmark wrote:
lørdag den 18. februar 2023 kl. 00.00.52 UTC+1 skrev Dan Koren:
On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 2:54:53 PM UTC-8, KimDenmark wrote:
Pure joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjF3dzMJhU
You call Backhaus "joy" ?!? Why don't you call him Fuckhaus?
He butchered every note he played.
Dan, such an delightful response.. Backhaus´ LvBI don't listen for "love". I listen for music -- phrasing,
4PC is pure love and if you removed the plugs in
your ears, even you would be able to hear just that.
texture, color, expression, articulation, a sense of
improvisation and emotional involvement.
Backhaus never went beyond pedantic mechanical
recitation in anything he played. The plugs are
entirely in your ears. You hear "love" in his
playing, I hear boots on the keyboard.
Here is Chopin's op 27 no. 2 butchered alla marcia:
https://youtu.be/VHk2m2Hj7Bs?t=20
This would not even make it into the preliminaries
at a Chopin competition. No phrasing, no legato,
no texture, no color, ridiculous beyond ridiculous
and absurd beyond absurd.
Please spare us the boilerplate.
dk
Notsure01 <docdu...@aol.com> wrote:Todd M. McComb
It's not the criticism that bothers people so much, but the way it is >>phrased.
If "the way it is phrased" includes the same comments over & over, then
yes.
Notsure01 <docdu...@aol.com> wrote:
It's not the criticism that bothers
people so much, but the way it is
phrased.
Todd M. McComb
If "the way it is phrased" includes
the same comments over & over,
then yes.
It's so goddamn tiresome, these
furious reiterations of the same old
Backhaus, Brendel, Arrau, Serkin...
Just let people listen to whatever
they want to listen to.
Notsure01 <docdu...@aol.com> wrote:Todd M. McComb
It's not the criticism that bothers people so much, but the way it is
phrased.
If "the way it is phrased" includes the same comments over & over, then
yes.
It's so goddamn tiresome, these furious reiterations of the same old
Backhaus, Brendel, Arrau, Serkin...
Just let people listen to whatever they want to listen to.
On 2/21/2023 1:43 PM, Herman wrote:
Notsure01 <docdu...@aol.com> wrote:Todd M. McComb
It's not the criticism that bothers people so much, but the way it is
phrased.
If "the way it is phrased" includes the same comments over & over, then
yes.
It's so goddamn tiresome, these furious reiterations of the same old
Backhaus, Brendel, Arrau, Serkin...
Just let people listen to whatever they want to listen to.
Would you prefer it if Dan changed his mind about his
preferences randomly so that there would be little repetition?
You continue to complain that Dan is trying to affect people's
listening behavior when everyone (except you) knows that is
impossible electronically. So what is going on is that Dan
states his opinions (often rudely, agreed) and you tell him
to shut up. Why are your posts not just as tiresome as his?
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 3:38:45 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 2/21/2023 1:43 PM, Herman wrote:
Notsure01 <docdu...@aol.com> wrote:Todd M. McComb
It's not the criticism that bothers people so much, but the way it is >>>>> phrased.
If "the way it is phrased" includes the same comments over & over, then >>>> yes.
It's so goddamn tiresome, these furious reiterations of the same old
Backhaus, Brendel, Arrau, Serkin...
Just let people listen to whatever they want to listen to.
Would you prefer it if Dan changed his mind about his
preferences randomly so that there would be little repetition?
Boy, that would be great! I'm working on it! ;-)
You continue to complain that Dan is trying to affect people's
listening behavior when everyone (except you) knows that is
impossible electronically. So what is going on is that Dan
states his opinions (often rudely, agreed) and you tell him
to shut up. Why are your posts not just as tiresome as his?
How about "piquantly" rather than "rudely"? ;-)
Experience shows politeness is never noticed.
Or credited.
dk
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 465 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 47:25:42 |
| Calls: | 9,401 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 13,572 |
| Messages: | 6,099,371 |