Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam).
It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
Henk
hvt...@xs4all.nl schrieb am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023 um 16:01:09 UTC+1:his Mozart operas and thought they were really horrible. Like really horrible. I assure you, I could do it better.
Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam).To improve things, suggest them to hire me perhaps.
It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
HenkI don't care whether he is extravagant or not. He just sucks. Many people have noted the following about Currentzis: very fast, LOUD - quiet -LOUD - quiet -LOUD - quiet, and ofc very fast... it seems he only knows extremes. I only listened to parts of
Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
Henk
On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 15:01:09 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:Regarding a dancing conductor:
Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
Henk
Speeds sounded OK to me. Not too much charm, though. A bit robotic even if he dances about with the music.
Regarding a dancing conductor:
Back in 1964 or 1965, I and several friends attended a concert where
Haitink was the conductor. I think it must have been the LPO on tour
and was a change from the weekly Hallé concerts.
What struck us most was the frantic ballet that Haitink performed on the podium, his hair (he had some then) flying about wildly.
Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
Henk
Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...
On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 2:01:09 AM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Currentzis is coming to the RCO for a Mahler (that's as creative as they get in Amsterdam). It is said by some that this is a risk.
After listening to several items on YT, I don't understand why. Viotti and Makela seem more extravagant than this young man. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8t-m9MvAA
HenkFirstly, here is some traditional Dutch music (not by Badings or even Clemens non Papa) to calm the Amsterdammers down a bit after the shock of being potentially exposed to Mahler:
Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:
Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
Henk
Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:
Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
Henk
Here is an audience of Amsterdammers watching an extraordinary performance of "The Magic Flute" with Sir John Eliot Gardiner, Gerald Finlay and a modern dance troupe at the Concertgebouw. At first, they can't believe their eyes. At the end, it's astanding ovation:
< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE_f95sI0KA >
< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5imHfFzOmg >
Why? Is he the new young thing?
Looks good on the podium does he?
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:08:03 AM UTC+11, hvt...xs4all.nl wrote:
Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...gmail.com:
Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
HenkI'm glad Currentzis was well received,
On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Why? Is he the new young thing?He is over 50. Maybe that counts
as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)
Looks good on the podium does he?He doesn't look good enough to
make one forget he is a second
rate conductor.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg
Even HvK looked far better.
dk
On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Why? Is he the new young thing?He is over 50. Maybe that counts
as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)
Looks good on the podium does he?He doesn't look good enough to
make one forget he is a second
rate conductor.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg
Even HvK looked far better.
dk
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 16:45:01 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 9:41:22 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Why? Is he the new young thing?He is over 50. Maybe that counts
as the "new young" on r.m.c.r! ;-)
Looks good on the podium does he?He doesn't look good enough to
make one forget he is a second
rate conductor.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg/800px-Teodor_Currentzis._The_conductor_in_PermOpera._2016.jpg
Even HvK looked far better.
K couldn't look. He always
had his eyes closed. ;)
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
I'm glad Currentzis was well received,Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:56:30 AM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
standing ovation:Here is an audience of Amsterdammers watching an extraordinary performance of "The Magic Flute" with Sir John Eliot Gardiner, Gerald Finlay and a modern dance troupe at the Concertgebouw. At first, they can't believe their eyes. At the end, it's a
premiere night, with the former Queen in attendance (which is why the camera is facing the balcony in the first minute), and she used to be a champion of the 9modern) Netherlands Dance Theatre.< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE_f95sI0KA >
< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5imHfFzOmg >
you may be imagining things, such as "they can't believe their eyes". Holland has never much been a place for old fashioned traditional theatre, and this show from 1995 was in fact rather 'eighties' in tone and color. BTW it looks like this was a
You're previous remark that people in Amsterdam would be shocked to hear Mahler was even more bizarre.
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
I'm glad Currentzis was well received,Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who have
I am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt. Wecould argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it would be
At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 21:09:07 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:have been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
I'm glad Currentzis was well received,Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who
We could argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it wouldI am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt.
the chops with a Merseyside wet fish.At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...
Andrew ClarkeAs an ardent Arsenal fan for eons, (all the way through the Wenger era and before) I know full well the drawbacks of being A Gooner. Mike Arteta seems as though he has it in hand, despite the very latest return to Goodison Park and a 1-0 slap around
Canberra
Onto dirigentsia, most or even all of the well known classics, have been done, almost to death, by their respective advocates of the "golden era", not that long ago, sadly passed. Now, do I turn to Abbado's wonderful set, or Maag for the Scottish, orHerbst the K, or Dohnanyi's/VPO set. As a consequence, I find it very difficult to think of other recordings simply because it is newer, and conducted by the latest in-vogue stars, given that I will sate myself with Mendselssohn and then move on? Maybe
Or if needing a Sibelius type fix, do I turn to Makela, all of 23 years old, (and juggling with an entire symphonic repertoire as he grows into his podium suit), or do I listen to Berglund (3 of them), Davis (4), Maazel (2), Blomstedt (2), Vanska (2or3?), Segerstam, HvK, Barbirolli (Halle), Ormandy, Kamu, or a host of others probably equally as good.
Rattle of course knows the "entire" symphonic repertoire or so his agents think, but where is his Shosty, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Balakirev, or has Fedoseyev only been doing them for 50 odd years without so much as a fanfare?
I am glad you support your favourite musicians, but wish I could get half as enthused. But we both love Arsenal, so this is a start. And the NY Yankees are a month off spring training so a lot to look forward to.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:08:03 AM UTC+11, hvt...xs4all.nl wrote:
Op zaterdag 4 februari 2023 om 15:42:09 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...gmail.com:
Secondly, it seems to be difficult to find a conductor whose career developed since about 1980 who is *not* considered a fraud by many. Gardiner, Norrington, Youdududumel-Yoududumel, Rattle, Roth, Makela ...I loved the 'klompendans' - too elegant and the humour is too refined to be Dutch. Thanks.
According to 'the' media, Currentzis did very well. The Amsterdammers loved their Mahler as well as their Shostakovich (Melnikov, 2nd piano concerto).
The old, grey-haired white male no longer rules the earth (I.e. the KCO).
Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?HenkI'm glad Currentzis was well received,
About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 11:17:50 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:have been collecting and evaluating CDs for years, that many find this threatening. I personally don't. Whether Mr Currentzis looks better or worse on stage than Mr Roth or Mr Wilson or Mr Makela, I am not in a position to know.
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 21:09:07 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 4:41:22 PM UTC+11, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 14:39:22 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
I'm glad Currentzis was well received,Why? Is he the new young thing? Looks good on the podium does he?
About time you mentioned some real conducting talent, but I haven't heard you mention much so far.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, I don't have league tables for conductors or indeed singers and dancers. And in any case, I think that the era of the Heldendirigent is over. This may or may not be a good thing, and I can see from some of the reactions here, from people who
We could argue until the cows come home about whether they should be there, or whether the British soccer critics are insidiously promoting Arsenal over other more worthy teams such as Sheffield Wednesday or Cardiff City or Mansfield Town, but it wouldI am in a position to tell you that Arsenal are at the top of the Premier League (which is soccer played by teams of fabulously well-paid foreigners purportedly representing various cities and towns in England and Wales). Of that there is no doubt.
the chops with a Merseyside wet fish.At the moment I'm listening to lots of Sir Roger Norrington, inspired of course by Mr Dallas's latest diatribe. He - Norrington, that is - doesn't look much on stage, but he'd done a marvellous "Italian" Symphony ...
Andrew ClarkeAs an ardent Arsenal fan for eons, (all the way through the Wenger era and before) I know full well the drawbacks of being A Gooner. Mike Arteta seems as though he has it in hand, despite the very latest return to Goodison Park and a 1-0 slap around
Canberra
Herbst the K, or Dohnanyi's/VPO set. As a consequence, I find it very difficult to think of other recordings simply because it is newer, and conducted by the latest in-vogue stars, given that I will sate myself with Mendselssohn and then move on? MaybeOnto dirigentsia, most or even all of the well known classics, have been done, almost to death, by their respective advocates of the "golden era", not that long ago, sadly passed. Now, do I turn to Abbado's wonderful set, or Maag for the Scottish, or
2or 3?), Segerstam, HvK, Barbirolli (Halle), Ormandy, Kamu, or a host of others probably equally as good.Or if needing a Sibelius type fix, do I turn to Makela, all of 23 years old, (and juggling with an entire symphonic repertoire as he grows into his podium suit), or do I listen to Berglund (3 of them), Davis (4), Maazel (2), Blomstedt (2), Vanska (
which I can see no end. I did support South Melbourne in the days when they played at the Albert Park Oval, and occasionally see how they're going as the Sydney Swans, although I haven't attended a game of Australian Rules since the 1960s and don't watchRattle of course knows the "entire" symphonic repertoire or so his agents think, but where is his Shosty, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Balakirev, or has Fedoseyev only been doing them for 50 odd years without so much as a fanfare?
I am glad you support your favourite musicians, but wish I could get half as enthused. But we both love Arsenal, so this is a start. And the NY Yankees are a month off spring training so a lot to look forward to.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, I must disabuse you of any connection to the Arsenal: in fact, the only soccer team with which I have any sentimental connection is, I'm afraid, Huddersfield Town, and both the team and the town it represents are now on a steep downward slide to
It does appear to me that we're allowed to like Mendelssohn again, which I think the HIP bands have done much to accomplish. I'm very fond of Bruno Weill's recording of the "Italian" with Tafelmusik, for example. And the Berlin Phil under KirilPetrenko are about to / have just performed 'Elijah', which I might watch on Digital Concert Hall. The string quartets are very good too, and there's a fine recording of the complete set by the New Zealand String Quartet for Naxos.
Are you arguing that as the best recordings of Mendelssohn and just about everybody else have already been made, there's no point in making any more?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
No, of course not, but with my collection, why should I interest
myself in newer recordings?
On Monday, 6 February 2023 at 01:57:02 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
Are you arguing that as the best recordings of Mendelssohn and just about everybody else have already been made, there's no point in making any more?
No, of course not, but with my collection, why should I interest myself in newer
recordings? I am content with what I have with regard to the standard classics
and therefore my searching has ended. I might listen to Mendelssohn this week and not again for a year. So much music to cover in between. I do have a lot of
Tafelmusik also but not in Mendelssohn.
Then there was the matter of digitizing old recordings...
which was quite daunting, but did get done. (The advice
to digitize what you play after you play it seems good to me....)
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