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  • Op. 49 .....

    From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 00:28:05 2023
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 05:36:40 2023
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar. However, after my last debacle, I'll be more careful. It's one of the liveliest versions I know - a great version - but not my favourite. That's Malcuzynski.

    Henk

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  • From JohnGavin@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Fri Jan 27 13:53:21 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:36:43 AM UTC-5, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....
    The performance seems familiar. However, after my last debacle, I'll be more careful. It's one of the liveliest versions I know - a great version - but not my favourite. That's Malcuzynski.

    Henk

    My favorite – straight forward, this interpretation, accumulates power. I like the momentum. ABM

    https://youtu.be/tx6oawcsIkI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Fri Jan 27 18:33:14 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:36:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    The performance seems familiar.
    However, after my last debacle,

    What "debacle" ?!?

    I'll be more careful. It's one of
    the liveliest versions I know -

    Yes, that was the point exactly.

    a great version - but not my
    favourite. That's Malcuzynski.

    Certainly one of the finest.
    A different approach.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Fri Jan 27 21:08:16 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:36:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar.

    Here is a killer Rachmaninov 2nd sonata by the same pianist:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgai1c1cvjubh5m/Rachmaninov%20Sonata%20no.%202.m4a?dl=0

    Enjoy!

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 04:08:28 2023
    Op zaterdag 28 januari 2023 om 06:08:19 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:36:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar.
    Here is a killer Rachmaninov 2nd sonata by the same pianist:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgai1c1cvjubh5m/Rachmaninov%20Sonata%20no.%202.m4a?dl=0

    Enjoy!

    Thanks! Again a great performance - and again I can only think of Licad - like the Mephisto, and Op. 49. But even if it isn't her, it's a great extravert and energetic performance. The performer keeps the music flowing.

    Henk

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  • From AB@21:1/5 to JohnGavin on Sat Jan 28 11:16:47 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 4:53:23 PM UTC-5, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:36:43 AM UTC-5, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....
    The performance seems familiar. However, after my last debacle, I'll be more careful. It's one of the liveliest versions I know - a great version - but not my favourite. That's Malcuzynski.

    Henk
    My favorite – straight forward, this interpretation, accumulates power. I like the momentum. ABM

    https://youtu.be/tx6oawcsIkI

    very disappointing....... at times careless striking of chords, especially the softer ones ,no depth (nor beauty) of tone, shallow treble,far from a well prepared piano. somewhat lifeless playing........ like when I heard him in 1969 in CH. At his best,
    when younger he was magnificent ( at least by his recordings).......
    somewhat strange personality..........

    AB

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Sat Jan 28 11:56:02 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 4:08:31 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op zaterdag 28 januari 2023 om 06:08:19 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:36:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar.
    Here is a killer Rachmaninov 2nd sonata by the same pianist:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgai1c1cvjubh5m/Rachmaninov%20Sonata%20no.%202.m4a?dl=0

    Enjoy!

    Thanks! Again a great performance - and again I can
    only think of Licad - like the Mephisto, and Op. 49.
    But even if it isn't her, it's a great extravert and
    energetic performance. The performer keeps
    the music flowing.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukjhaqaa3mt404k/photo.jpg?dl=0

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 12:07:10 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 11:16:50 AM UTC-8, AB wrote:

    very disappointing....... at times careless striking of chords,

    Disappointing ?!? Compared to what? Arrau grazing the
    keys at a snail's pace? Brendull acting as a metronome?

    especially the softer ones ,no depth (nor beauty) of tone,
    shallow treble,far from a well prepared piano. somewhat
    lifeless playing........

    If you think this is "lifeless" playing you must be nuts. It is
    an incandescent reading, definitely one of the top 3 on
    record, and quite possibly the finest.

    You really do not have a clue about piano performance,
    not to mention you do not seem to be aware of the
    recording limitations of live performances.

    Most pianists cannot afford the luxury of traveling with
    their own pianos like ABM, Volodya, Zimmerman or
    Sokolov. Most pianists have little say or control
    over the recording teams, and cannot dictate how
    their performances are recorded.

    You really need to take some piano lessons quickly.

    like when I heard him in 1969 in CH.
    At his best, when younger he was magnificent ( at least
    by his recordings)....... somewhat strange personality..........

    This isn't Van Cliburn. It is this pianist:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukjhaqaa3mt404k/photo.jpg?dl=0

    Compared to her, Van was a cold fish (or as one says in
    Yidish, a "kother tuchas"). Also a Serkin student. the
    best of his litter. Who would have thought a Serkin
    student could play Chopin and Rachmaninov with
    real passion?

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 12:12:58 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 11:16:50 AM UTC-8, AB wrote:

    very disappointing....... at times careless striking of chords,

    Disappointing ?!? Compared to what? Arrau grazing the
    keys at a snail's pace? Brendull acting as a metronome?

    especially the softer ones ,no depth (nor beauty) of tone,
    shallow treble,far from a well prepared piano. somewhat
    lifeless playing........

    If you think this is "lifeless" playing you must be nuts. It is
    an incandescent reading, definitely one of the top 3 on
    record, and quite possibly the finest.

    You really do not have a clue about piano performance,
    not to mention you do not seem to be aware of the
    recording limitations of live performances.

    Most pianists cannot afford the luxury of traveling with
    their own pianos like ABM, Volodya, Zimmerman or
    Sokolov. Most pianists have little say or control
    over the recording teams, and cannot dictate how
    their performances are recorded.

    You really need to take some piano lessons quickly.

    like when I heard him in 1969 in CH.
    At his best, when younger he was magnificent ( at least
    by his recordings)....... somewhat strange personality..........

    This isn't Van Cliburn. It is this pianist:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukjhaqaa3mt404k/photo.jpg?dl=0

    Compared to her, Van was a cold fish (or as one says in
    Yidish, a "kolter tuchas"). Also a Serkin student. the
    best of his litter. Who would have thought a Serkin
    student could play Chopin and Rachmaninov with
    real passion?

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sat Jan 28 12:20:17 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:13:00 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 11:16:50 AM UTC-8, AB wrote:

    very disappointing....... at times careless striking of chords,

    Disappointing ?!? Compared to what? Arrau grazing the
    keys at a snail's pace? Brendull acting as a metronome?

    especially the softer ones ,no depth (nor beauty) of tone,
    shallow treble,far from a well prepared piano. somewhat
    lifeless playing........

    If you think this is "lifeless" playing you must be nuts. It is
    an incandescent reading, definitely one of the top 3 on
    record, and quite possibly the finest.

    You really do not have a clue about piano performance,
    not to mention you do not seem to be aware of the
    recording limitations of live performances.

    Most pianists cannot afford the luxury of traveling with
    their own pianos like ABM, Volodya, Zimmerman or
    Sokolov. Most pianists have little say or control
    over the recording teams, and cannot dictate how
    their performances are recorded.


    For an illustration of live performance challenges
    check this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsNs1QY7B7g&t=1375s

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sat Jan 28 12:34:24 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:20:20 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    ictate how
    their performances are recorded.

    For an illustration of live performance challenges
    check this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsNs1QY7B7g&t=1375s


    Check this for a cleaner recording -- also a live performance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyzMP95Kc-8

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to JohnGavin on Sat Jan 28 14:08:58 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 1:53:23 PM UTC-8, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:36:43 AM UTC-5, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar.
    However, after my last debacle,

    I'll be more careful. It's one of the
    liveliest versions I know - a great
    version - but not my favourite.
    That's Malcuzynski.

    My favorite – straight forward,

    Predictable.

    this interpretation, accumulates
    power.

    Leave power accumulation to
    Tesla.

    I like the momentum. ABM

    Overwrought, overthought,
    too smooth and predictable.

    Times have changed, taste
    has changed, ABM sounds
    increasingly like a playing
    machine when compared
    to some younger (or even
    some older) pianists.

    Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2VGz4zTRc

    Franckly, I am sick and
    tired of listening to well
    planned, well structured,
    overthought performances
    that sound like recitations
    of textbook principles. I
    prefer performances that
    sound fresh, spontaneous,
    improvised, rather than
    perfectly polished.

    In fairness, this may in part
    be a result of over-exposure.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sat Jan 28 14:13:11 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 1:53:23 PM UTC-8, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:36:43 AM UTC-5, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar.
    However, after my last debacle,

    I'll be more careful. It's one of the
    liveliest versions I know - a great
    version - but not my favourite.
    That's Malcuzynski.

    My favorite – straight forward,

    Predictable.

    this interpretation, accumulates
    power.

    Leave power accumulation to
    Tesla.
    I like the momentum. ABM
    Overwrought, overthought,
    too smooth and predictable.

    Times have changed, taste
    has changed, ABM sounds
    increasingly like a playing
    machine when compared
    to some younger (or even
    some older) pianists.

    Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2VGz4zTRc


    This one is even better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDNueJAWZQc

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Sat Jan 28 22:06:49 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:36:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar. However, after my
    last debacle, I'll be more careful. It's one of the liveliest
    versions I know - a great version - but not my favourite.
    That's Malcuzynski.

    Are you referring to the 1959 EMI recording

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL8KI0BdD5U

    or to the 1975 Polskie Nagrania recording?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL8KI0BdD5U

    Other opp. 49 worth hearing:

    Cortot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F5Wl92NYLo

    Koczalski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEIy1aRg_c

    Sofronitsky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M90HT7N9Nug

    von Karolyi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2VGz4zTRc

    Yves Nat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktFrhrgtIl4

    Rubinstein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIlmdNTgXgk

    Van Clickburn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XizLhG9NjeI

    Cziffra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLPrDA7iocM

    La Pires: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVgkLNP8Oao

    Cecile Licad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRr5NHg-KbI

    Sarah Tuan: https://youtu.be/fwN9K26reTw?t=335

    If I were forced to keep just
    one, it would be Sofronitsky.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Jan 29 02:10:17 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 11:56:05 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 4:08:31 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op zaterdag 28 januari 2023 om 06:08:19 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:36:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op vrijdag 27 januari 2023 om 09:28:08 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s354es53wrg5pd/Chopin%20Fantasy%20op%2049.m4a?dl=0

    I ask the question .....

    The performance seems familiar.
    Here is a killer Rachmaninov 2nd sonata by the same pianist:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgai1c1cvjubh5m/Rachmaninov%20Sonata%20no.%202.m4a?dl=0

    Enjoy!

    Thanks! Again a great performance - and again I can
    only think of Licad - like the Mephisto, and Op. 49.
    But even if it isn't her, it's a great extravert and
    energetic performance. The performer keeps
    the music flowing.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukjhaqaa3mt404k/photo.jpg?dl=0

    Here is yet another superb Licad performance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Y3nWODG70

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)