American Jewry's Stunted Sons - an essay by Ruth R. Wisse, professor emerita at Harvardpersuaded many Jews that other cultures were more advanced than their own."
"We know that in the 19th century, as ideas of Enlightenment began to take hold, many lost faith in the Jewish way of life. The forces that claimed to represent progress—in science and technology, arts and education, political and social thought—
"As one of the most talented writers of his generation, Philip Roth defined the American Jewish male as the never-to-become-a Jewish-father."staggering odds. Cohen demonstrates his cleverness and literary talent, and justly defends his artistic right to reimagine these men any way he chooses. But that is precisely the point: this is how he uses his imagination—by clownishly describing the
Here comes the stunted Jew, a la Dan (who told me that Netanyahu is "made out of the same clothes" as Putin):
"Joshua Cohen has just been awarded the Pulitzer Prize for his novel The Netanyahus, which trivializes the most consequential family in recent Jewish history—the father a remarkable historian and sons who exemplify Jewish leadership against
Dan, tell me, why do you hate Israel so much?
Dan, tell me, why do you hate Israel so much?
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
Yiddish rather than Hebrew?
her nationality as Canadian rather than Israeli?
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
dk
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:56:40 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
Dan, tell me, why do you hate Israel so much?
What an absurd notion. I am Israeli and very
prooud of it. This does not mean one has to
accept Netanyahu as PM. Check this:
https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/columnist/354963/80000-israelis-march-against-arrogance
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
I REALLY don't want to see threads here glorifying Netanyahu after his past record and current policies.
But it seems there's no way of stopping this ultra-right stuff from appearing.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
dk
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:FWIW the great Israeli novelist A.B. Yehoshua said: "A full Jewish life could only be had in the Jewish state." He claimed that Jews elsewhere were only "playing with Judaism. Diaspora Judaism is masturbation." In Israel, he said, it is "the real thing."
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standingWell, no! One person's sense can
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
dk
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:26:57 PM UTC-6, dan....@gmail.com wrote:thing."
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:Well, no! One person's sense can
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>> On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
dkFWIW the great Israeli novelist A.B. Yehoshua said: "A full Jewish life could only be had in the Jewish >state." He claimed that Jews elsewhere were only "playing with Judaism. Diaspora Judaism is masturbation." >In Israel, he said, it is "the real
FWIW the great Israeli novelist A.B. Yehoshua said: "A full Jewish life could only be had in the Jewish state." He claimed that Jews elsewhere were only "playing with Judaism. Diaspora Judaism is masturbation." In Israel, he said, it is "the real thing."
thing."FWIW the great Israeli novelist A.B. Yehoshua said: "A full Jewish life could only be had in the Jewish state." He claimed that Jews elsewhere were only "playing with Judaism. Diaspora Judaism is masturbation." In Israel, he said, it is "the real
One could maintain as well that only Diaspora Judaism is full Judaism. In the Diaspora Judaism has become what it is - in all its forms.
Henk
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>> On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
dk
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>> On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
American Jewry's Stunted Sons - an essay by Ruth R. Wisse, professor emerita at Harvard
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:that's just a guess.
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>> On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dkAs I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:that's just a guess.
On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:56:40 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
American Jewry's Stunted Sons - an essay by Ruth R. Wisse, professor emerita at Harvard
An appreciation of Prof. Wisse:
https://missouriintelligencer.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/the-closing-of-the-collegiate-mind-by-ruth-r-wisse/
Her views on the origin of the Yiddish dialect are as well worth reading about as they are rather unconventional.
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation
proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance
to pass under a conservative government, but that's just a guess.
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this.
This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person
who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic,
ashkenaz.
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger
wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank
Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been
legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it
has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but that's
just a guess.
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this.
This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the
person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White,
Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular,
sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:that's just a guess.
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a
while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or
doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:but that's just a guess.
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government,
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish
people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak
about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:but that's just a guess.
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government,
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:03:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:government, but that's just a guess.
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at >>>>>>>>>>>> an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here, >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se. >>>>>>>>>>> Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes. >>>>>>>>>>>
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
include in that consciousness belong to a 'Jewish people.' There seems to be a widening gap (among the extremist zealots it is an impassable abyss) between that part of the population that sees itself as essentially Israeli and that other part,
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.Blame me if you will, but I was thinking of this passage from French sociologist George Friedmann's book "The End of the Jewish People?" (1967)
'There is no Jewish nation. There is an Israeli nation. The state that came into existence as a result of Herzl's prophecies is not a 'Jewish state.' The Israeli state is creating an imperious national state that is conscious of itself but does not
Friedmann, comments the late George Lichtheim, "accepts both the reality of Israeli nationhood and. the enduring strength of Jewish religious consciousness. He merely holds that they are incompatible. Israel is going to become a secular state .... as amatter of survival and and because the majority of the young are bored with religion. As for the orthodox minority, it will increasingly, Friedmann think, retreats into a mystical realm of its own.
I would add that this reading of the situation (per 1967) does not take into account if the increasing political power of the orthodox minority in today's Israel, whether this power has been more or less seized or acquiered by that minority on a moreor less demographic basis or it has been in effect ceded to it by the government for political-social reasons.
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank BergerAs I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The
wrote:
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank >>>>>>>>>>>> Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for
the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here,
anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been
legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess
it has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but
that's just a guess.
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this.
This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the
person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White,
Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular,
sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
I would add that this reading of the situation (per 1967) does not take into account if the increasing political power of the orthodox minority in today's Israel, whether this power has been more or less seized or acquiered by that minority on a moreor less demographic basis or it has been in effect ceded to it by the government for political-social reasons.
Today's Israel has very little in common with how it was in the 1960s.
Op 2023-01-16 om 20:03 schreef Frank Berger:
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
There is no diversity when they all are Jewish.
Op maandag 16 januari 2023 om 23:26:12 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
So do the Netherlands, and most other countries.
I agree, including the role of political extremism.
The link between state and religion no longer
exists here. Only in his annual speech does
the king pray for God's blessing, however,
without mentioning him.
So do the Netherlands, and most other countries.
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:03:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:but that's just a guess.
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government,
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
include in that consciousness belong to a 'Jewish people.' There seems to be a widening gap (among the extremist zealots it is an impassable abyss) between that part of the population that sees itself as essentially Israeli and that other part,Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Blame me if you will, but I was thinking of this passage from French sociologist George Friedmann's book "The End of the Jewish People?" (1967)
'There is no Jewish nation. There is an Israeli nation. The state that came into existence as a result of Herzl's prophecies is not a 'Jewish state.' The Israeli state is creating an imperious national state that is conscious of itself but does not
Friedmann, comments the late George Lichtheim, "accepts both the reality of Israeli nationhood and. the enduring strength of Jewish religious consciousness. He merely holds that they are incompatible. Israel is going to become a secular state .... as amatter of survival and and because the majority of the young are bored with religion. As for the orthodox minority, it will increasingly, Friedmann think, retreats into a mystical realm of its own.
I would add that this reading of the situation (per 1967) does not take into account if the increasing >political power of the orthodox minority in today's Israel,
Op maandag 16 januari 2023 om 22:04:19 UTC+1 schreef ljk...@aol.com:or less demographic basis or it has been in effect ceded to it by the government for political-social reasons.
I would add that this reading of the situation (per 1967) does not take into account if the increasing political power of the orthodox minority in today's Israel, whether this power has been more or less seized or acquiered by that minority on a more
Today's Israel has very little in common with how it was in the 1960s. Extremism (religious and political) were exceptional.
Henk
Op 2023-01-16 om 20:03 schreef Frank Berger:but that's just a guess.
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative government,
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
There is no diversity when they all are Jewish.
In Israel, the link between "state" and "religion"
is only symbolic, and barely nominal. Anyone
who believes otherwise should check Tel-Aviv
bars Friday nights and Tel-Aviv beaches on a
Saturday.
Op maandag 16 januari 2023 om 23:26:12 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
So do the Netherlands, and most other countries.
I agree, including the role of political extremism. The link between state and religion no longer exists here. Only in his annual speech does the king pray for God's blessing, however, without mentioning him.
Henk
In Israel, the link between "state" and "religion"
is only symbolic, and barely nominal. Anyone
who believes otherwise should check Tel-Aviv
bars Friday nights and Tel-Aviv beaches on a
Saturday.
<g> If only Tel-Aviv were Israel.
I can't find an analogy for us. I would hate it if Amsterdam were the Netherlands. It would make matters far worse. We don't seem to have a redeeming quality.
Henk
In Israel, the link between "state" and "religion"
is only symbolic, and barely nominal. Anyone
who believes otherwise should check Tel-Aviv
bars Friday nights and Tel-Aviv beaches on a
Saturday.
<g> If only Tel-Aviv were Israel.
I can't find an analogy for us. I would hate it if
Amsterdam were the Netherlands. It would
make matters far worse. We don't seem
to have a redeeming quality.
Being afraid to mention God seems extremist to me.
Traditionally, kings are representatives of God.
Op dinsdag 17 januari 2023 om 00:43:38 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
Being afraid to mention God seems extremist to me.
Indeed, extremist in the sense of ultra-Orthodox. In orthodoxy, also in medieval Christianity, one can only say of God what he isn't.
However, our king doesn't mention God because of the holiness of his name but because he lives in a secular age wherein God disappeared. He does, however, ask for a blessing.
Traditionally, kings are representatives of God. In that capacity, they are heads of state and state religion. By asking to bless the people, the king reminds himself and his people that his position is a special one. The difference with the beginningof the 20th century is that he can no longer say why he is so special. He has become a free floating representative.
Henk
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 3:50:18 PM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
In Israel, the link between "state" and "religion"
is only symbolic, and barely nominal. Anyone
who believes otherwise should check Tel-Aviv
bars Friday nights and Tel-Aviv beaches on a
Saturday.
<g> If only Tel-Aviv were Israel.
I can't find an analogy for us. I would hate it if
Amsterdam were the Netherlands. It would
make matters far worse. We don't seem
to have a redeeming quality.
Amsterdam has a few nice paintings, and a
good sounding concert hall. Especially when
Herman doesn't play there.
dk
On 1/16/2023 8:03 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 3:50:18 PM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
In Israel, the link between "state" and "religion"
is only symbolic, and barely nominal. Anyone
who believes otherwise should check Tel-Aviv
bars Friday nights and Tel-Aviv beaches on a
Saturday.
<g> If only Tel-Aviv were Israel.
I can't find an analogy for us. I would hate it if
Amsterdam were the Netherlands. It would
make matters far worse. We don't seem
to have a redeeming quality.
Amsterdam has a few nice paintings, and a
good sounding concert hall. Especially when
Herman doesn't play there.
My parent traveled many times to Europe.
The only place I remember they didn't
like was Amsterdam. No idea why.
We have relatives in the Netherlands and we hear
first hand reports of frequent incidents. Perhaps
not quite as violent as in France, yet unacceptable
in any "civilized" Western nation.
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 3:31:29 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
USA.We have relatives in the Netherlands and we hear
first hand reports of frequent incidents. Perhaps
not quite as violent as in France, yet unacceptable
in any "civilized" Western nation.
dkwell, you're posting this from a country in which the leader of one of two big parties is talking about "I want Jews counting my money" etc. Since your sole source of info seems to be youtube, here are some vids about the rise of antisemitism in the
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybT9LrBnVCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maPxZEjuk1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjELYYdfwpw
However, what's the difference? You're an out and out racist yourself. Ethnics is the first and only criterion for you, you judge every single thing in terms of race and ethnics, so it's no use whining if other bad people do the same.
I don't, just to be clear.
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 9:00:09 PM UTC-6, Herman wrote:USA.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 3:31:29 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote: >>>
well, you're posting this from a country in which the leader of one of two big parties is talking about "I want Jews counting my money" etc. Since your sole source of info seems to be youtube, here are some vids about the rise of antisemitism in the
We have relatives in the Netherlands and we hear
first hand reports of frequent incidents. Perhaps
not quite as violent as in France, yet unacceptable
in any "civilized" Western nation.
dk
and multiply, tend to have a great many children, while Israeli secularists are like most Diaspora Jews and for the most part do not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybT9LrBnVCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maPxZEjuk1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjELYYdfwpw
However, what's the difference? You're an out and out racist yourself. Ethnics is the first and only criterion for you, you judge every single thing in terms of race and ethnics, so it's no use whining if other bad people do the same.
I don't, just to be clear.
RE: "the massive growth in numbers" of the Orthodox in Israel, which has led to much of the growth of their political power, is that primarily because the Orthodox, literally following the Biblical injunction, and that of their leaders, to go forth
On 1/16/2023 7:40 PM, HT wrote:
Op dinsdag 17 januari 2023 om 00:43:38 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
Being afraid to mention God seems extremist to me.
Indeed, extremist in the sense of ultra-Orthodox. In orthodoxy, also in medieval Christianity, one can only say of God what he isn't.
No idea what you are talking about here.
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 03:31:29 UTC+1:
Lots of residual social and cultural anti-semitismIndeed, even the Germans were surprised at how enthusiastic the Dutch authorities were turning over Jews, organizing deportations etc.
in the air. Among all the Western Europeans the
Dutch are some of the least friendly towards Israel
and towards Jews.
Frank Berger schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 03:11:34 UTC+1:
On 1/16/2023 7:40 PM, HT wrote:
Op dinsdag 17 januari 2023 om 00:43:38 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
Being afraid to mention God seems extremist to me.
Indeed, extremist in the sense of ultra-Orthodox. In orthodoxy, also in medieval Christianity, one can only say of God what he isn't.
No idea what you are talking about here.He doesn't either. He just believes he does ;)
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 6:13:22 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/16/2023 8:03 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 3:50:18 PM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
In Israel, the link between "state" and "religion"
is only symbolic, and barely nominal. Anyone
who believes otherwise should check Tel-Aviv
bars Friday nights and Tel-Aviv beaches on a
Saturday.
<g> If only Tel-Aviv were Israel.
I can't find an analogy for us. I would hate it if
Amsterdam were the Netherlands. It would
make matters far worse. We don't seem
to have a redeeming quality.
Amsterdam has a few nice paintings, and a
good sounding concert hall. Especially when
Herman doesn't play there.
My parent traveled many times to Europe.Lots of residual social and cultural anti-semitism
The only place I remember they didn't
like was Amsterdam. No idea why.
in the air. Among all the Western Europeans the
Dutch are some of the least friendly towards Israel
and towards Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi50L6FIPwI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0stI4mXajQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWf3mqTHoGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ULlLTYDA8
We have relatives in the Netherlands and we hear
first hand reports of frequent incidents. Perhaps
not quite as violent as in France, yet unacceptable
in any "civilized" Western nation.
dk
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:56:40 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
American Jewry's Stunted Sons - an essay by Ruth R. Wisse, professor emerita at Harvard
An appreciation of Prof. Wisse:
https://missouriintelligencer.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/the-closing-of-the-collegiate-mind-by-ruth-r-wisse/
Her views on the origin of the Yiddish dialect are as well worth reading about as they are rather unconventional.
Op 2023-01-16 om 20:03 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger >>>>>>>> wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank >>>>>>>>>>>> Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the
great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at
an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture
other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of
Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here, >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se.
Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes.
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been
legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess >>>>>>> it has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but
that's just a guess.
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. >>>>> This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the
person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White,
Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular,
sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.There is no diversity when they all are Jewish.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 3:31:29 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
We have relatives in the Netherlands and we hear
first hand reports of frequent incidents. Perhaps
not quite as violent as in France, yet unacceptable
in any "civilized" Western nation.
well, you're posting this from a country in which the
leader of one of two big parties is talking about "I
want Jews counting my money" etc.
Since your sole source of info seems to be youtube,
here are some vids about the rise of antisemitism in the USA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybT9LrBnVCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maPxZEjuk1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjELYYdfwpw
However, what's the difference?
You're an out and out racist yourself. Ethnics is
the first and only criterion for you, you judge
every single thing in terms of race and ethnics,
so it's no use whining if other bad people do the
same.
I don't, just to be clear.
Op dinsdag 17 januari 2023 om 00:43:38 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
Being afraid to mention God seems extremist to me.Indeed, extremist in the sense of ultra-Orthodox. In orthodoxy, also in medieval Christianity, one can only say of God what he isn't.
However, our king doesn't mention God because of the holiness of his name but because he lives in a secular age wherein God disappeared. He does, however, ask for a blessing.
Where I post from has nothing to do with my opinions.
(interestingly, the Jews are subsumed under "white men") - it's all a farce.
Israel is perceived to be a racist state (white men capitalist
state - see how Gerard assumed its only Jews in Israel,
while there are druze, christians, muslims etc).
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 08:28:12 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 10:09:09 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
(interestingly, the Jews are subsumed under "white men") - it's all a farce.
It is not clear from the way the above is worded
if you agree or disagree. What sez you?
I am not Whoopi Goldberg.
Ofc Jews are not white.
It's really a tragedy that Jews are
being subsumed under white men,
they always get screwed over...
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 10:09:09 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
(interestingly, the Jews are subsumed under "white men") - it's all a farce.
It is not clear from the way the above is worded
if you agree or disagree. What sez you?
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 7:02:39 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
Where I post from has nothing to do with my opinions.
Just a couple hours ago you posted the 180
degree opposite re Wisse and her 'standing',
depending whether she lived in Israel or not.
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 10:37:17 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
Israel is perceived to be a racist state (white men capitalist
state - see how Gerard assumed its only Jews in Israel,
while there are druze, christians, muslims etc).
There are proletarians too. Not everyone is a capitalist in
Israel.
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
On 1/16/2023 5:07 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 20:03 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger
wrote:
On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger >>>>>>>>>> wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The >>>>>>>>> vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been >>>>>>>>> legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess >>>>>>>>> it has no chance to pass under a conservative government, but >>>>>>>>> that's just a guess.
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank >>>>>>>>>>>> Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future
of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew?Because she is Yiddish scholar (although she
speaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian
rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK
she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism?
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course she can speak and write about anything.
The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be
automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of
this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did >>>>>>> the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish? >>>>>>>
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, >>>>>>> Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular,
sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
There is no diversity when they all are Jewish.
Also false. There are Christian, Druse, Muslem, etc. Israelis.
Op 2023-01-17 om 00:39 schreef Frank Berger:government, but that's just a guess.
On 1/16/2023 5:07 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 20:03 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:39 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 19:35 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/16/2023 1:02 PM, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-16 om 05:43 schreef Frank Berger:
On 1/15/2023 9:41 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:25:13 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2023 6:12 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 3:04:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:As I said, an all-or-nothing view on this makes no sense. The vast majority of countries have absentee voting. The has been legislation proposed in Israel to provide for it. I would guess it has no chance to pass under a conservative
On 1/15/2023 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 6:17:11 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 3:23 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 11:34:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/15/2023 2:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 9:57:22 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/arts-culture/2022/06/american-jewrys-stunted-sons/
If Mme Wisse is so concerned about the future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she teach at Harvard, rather than at any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great universities in Israel?
I don't see why one could assume that teaching at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an Israeli institution would be better for the Jewish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people than at Harvard.
This is not about doing something that is "better for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Jews". It is about earning standing to lecture >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other Jews about what it means to be Jewish. In
my view, Jews who choose to live outside Israel
have no standing.
Why does she teach Yiddish rather than Hebrew? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because she is Yiddish scholar (although shespeaks fluent Hebrew).
Clearly teaching the language of the Ashkenazy
Jewish diaspora does nothing for the future of
the Jewish people as a nation and as a culture.
Why does she list her nationality as Canadian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than Israeli?
She grew up in Montreal and is Canadian. AFAIK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she is not Israeli. I believe she lived in Israel for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while, but I don't know how long.
We all know this. It was a retorical question.
If Marc S. is so concerned about the future of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Judaism and of the Jewish people, why does
he not move to Israel and convert to Judaism? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I ask the question ....
I don't get your point. Is she not qualified to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about Israeli issues because she is not Israeli and/or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't live there? As you so frequently say here, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can talk about anything.
The matter at hand is not freedom of speech per se. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course she can speak and write about anything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The issue is her standing. She has none in my eyes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Obviously, as a conservative she is going to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically hated by millions on the Left.
Non sequitur.
In my view a person has standing
if the speak sense. Nothing more.
Well, no! One person's sense can
be another person's non-sense.
"Standing" means the person is
"qualified" to speak about the
matter, regardless of what
they say.
Depending on the matter at
hand, "standing" may have
dimensions beyond mere
"knowledge" of the matter,
e.g. does the person have
"skin in the game", or does
the person meet ethical
and/or legal requirements.
Again with the all-or-nothing attitude.
Sure, an Israeli citizen living in Israel
has the most "skin in the game." This
is manifested by their right to vote in
Israeli elections. But a disapora Jew,
religious or not, is a potential Israel
and may well have relatives who are
Israeli and/or who live in Israel anf
therefore has some skin in the game,
if not as much. It makes no sense to
say the latter's views about Israel or
it's policies have no validity.
The balance of opinion in Israel is
that those who do not live there
have no right to vote.
This includes citizens who live or
travel temporarily out of Israel,
and cannot vote while being
out of the country. The only
exceptions are for maritime
and airline crews, and for
government employees
posted overseas, e.g.
embassy or consular
staff.
While there is certainly a
difference between voting
and merely voicing one's
opinions, most Israelis
tend to subscribe to the
view that one's opinions
do not matter if they do
not live there.
dk
I've heard it said that Israelis are not Jews but Israelis.
One would have know what was meant by "Jews" to make sense of this. This kind of statement is meaningless without context. Did the person who said it have any knowledge of Israel? Was he Jewish?
The population of Israel is as diverse as can be imagined. White, Black, Asian, ultra orthodox, not so ultra orthodox, secular, sephardic, ashkenaz.
And large, small, fat, lean, smart, dumb?
Missing the point, as always, Gerard.
Wasn't the point "diverse"?
Diversity in areas that are relevant to the conversation.
There is no diversity when they all are Jewish.
Also false. There are Christian, Druse, Muslem, etc. Israelis.
You (and those other "everyone is a antisemite" guys) missed the point, of course.
You better look up what the word "when" means.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:34:14 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
Of course you don't want this to be construed as a justification for the Holocaust?The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:30:06 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 08:28:12 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 10:09:09 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
(interestingly, the Jews are subsumed under "white men") - it's all a farce.
It is not clear from the way the above is worded
if you agree or disagree. What sez you?
I am not Whoopi Goldberg.What a surprise! We all feel relieved.
Ofc Jews are not white.Hear, hear! Then what are we?
It's really a tragedy that Jews areSounds like you may be quoting
being subsumed under white men,
someone. Dr. Goebbels perhaps?
they always get screwed over...Thank you for your condescension.
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently explainedIt is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently explainedIt is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israelnumbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
Growth and Fertility Ratesmarriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other Jewish women in Israel, the fertility ratefor 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; 3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently explained
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israelnumbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
Growth and Fertility Ratesmarriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility ratefor 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently explained
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility
Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UOpopulation in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:07:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently explained
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility
population in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UO
The point I was about to make was that whatever the cause of the rapid growth of the UO population, its increasing size almost inevitably makes the government, whatever its composition, that much more likely to take account of the UO population'sdesires, needs, wishes etc. As Dan I believe pointed out earlier, that is one of the ways democracy works. But if the desires, needs, wishes of the UO population grow increasingly adamant , along with the growth in size of the UO population, one can see
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 6:01:33 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:explained envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On 1/17/2023 6:13 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:07:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility
population in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UO
desires, needs, wishes etc. As Dan I believe pointed out earlier, that is one of the ways democracy works. But if the desires, needs, wishes of the UO population grow increasingly adamant , along with the growth in size of the UO population, one can see
The point I was about to make was that whatever the cause of the rapid growth of the UO population, its increasing size almost inevitably makes the government, whatever its composition, that much more likely to take account of the UO population's
stance of righteousness, seems not to be inclined to compromise.The same can be said of any growing subgroup of any electorate. I really don't see your point.
This is not just any subgroup, no? It is one whose desires, needs, wishes etc., seem to be at odds with >those of much of the rest of the Israeli population, and a subgroup that understandably, given its growing >size, political power, and its innate
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 6:01:33 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:explained envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On 1/17/2023 6:13 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:07:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1: >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently
It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
fertility rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the
population in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UO
desires, needs, wishes etc. As Dan I believe pointed out earlier, that is one of the ways democracy works. But if the desires, needs, wishes of the UO population grow increasingly adamant , along with the growth in size of the UO population, one can seeThe point I was about to make was that whatever the cause of the rapid growth of the UO population, its increasing size almost inevitably makes the government, whatever its composition, that much more likely to take account of the UO population's
stance of righteousness, seems not to be inclined to compromise.The same can be said of any growing subgroup of any electorate. I really don't see your point.This is not just any subgroup, no? It is one whose desires, needs, wishes etc., seem to be at odds with those of much of the rest of the Israeli population, and a subgroup that understandably, given its growing size, political power, and its innate
On 1/17/2023 6:13 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:explained envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:07:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility
population in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UO
desires, needs, wishes etc. As Dan I believe pointed out earlier, that is one of the ways democracy works. But if the desires, needs, wishes of the UO population grow increasingly adamant , along with the growth in size of the UO population, one can seeThe point I was about to make was that whatever the cause of the rapid growth of the UO population, its increasing size almost inevitably makes the government, whatever its composition, that much more likely to take account of the UO population's
The same can be said of any growing subgroup of any electorate. I really don't see your point.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 6:27:58 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:explained envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 6:01:33 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/17/2023 6:13 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:07:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>> On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1: >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>>*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently
It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.
The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.
Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.
Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility
population in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UO
desires, needs, wishes etc. As Dan I believe pointed out earlier, that is one of the ways democracy works. But if the desires, needs, wishes of the UO population grow increasingly adamant , along with the growth in size of the UO population, one can see
The point I was about to make was that whatever the cause of the rapid growth of the UO population, its increasing size almost inevitably makes the government, whatever its composition, that much more likely to take account of the UO population's
stance of righteousness, seems not to be inclined to compromise.The same can be said of any growing subgroup of any electorate. I really don't see your point.This is not just any subgroup, no? It is one whose desires, needs, wishes etc., seem to be at odds with those of much of the rest of the Israeli population, and a subgroup that understandably, given its growing size, political power, and its innate
If indeed compromise is even possible.
I suggest perusing Israeli news sources for a while.
Haaretz.com for a view from the Left and jpost.com
for (IMO) a more centrist view. Not one, both.
What do you think the ultra orthodox want that is "at odds" with
"the rest" of the Israeli population (as if the Israeli population
can be neatly divided into exactly two camps - it can't)?
The ultra-orthodox, via their political parties and voting, participate
in the Israeli democratic parliamentary system, just like everyone
else. This participation is the epitome of political compromise.
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:Actually, Frank, in addition to American news sources, I get most of my news about Israel from the Jerusalem Post. I'd prefer to go to Haaretz, but it's behind a pay wall. Most of the time I feel I can detect and discount the JP's Right Wing slant, if
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 4:57:55 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
What do you think the ultra orthodox want that is "at odds" with
"the rest" of the Israeli population (as if the Israeli population
can be neatly divided into exactly two camps - it can't)?
Relative to the ultra orthodox, "the rest" of the Israelis are people
who do not want to be told what they can eat, or what they can
do or not on Saturdays, or whom they can marry or not. There
is no need to obfuscate the matter. The ultra orthodox are the
folks who are relentlessly pushing to turn Israel into a medieval
shtetl.
The ultra-orthodox, via their political parties and voting, participate
in the Israeli democratic parliamentary system, just like everyone
else. This participation is the epitome of political compromise.
You call "blackmail" "participation" ?!? Oy vey .....
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:07:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:explained envy so well: "Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.")
On 1/17/2023 2:30 PM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 17:01:41 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2023 um 09:34:14 UTC+1:*Ofc in the case of envy it doesn't matter that you never came up with an original idea. But I thought I should mention it anyway. (These thoughts actually crossed my mind when writing it - thought I should clarify, since Bob just recently
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:28:11 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:It is just a very original idea, something you never came up with, and which you will reject when it is shown infront of your eyes - out of pure envy.
The Holocaust was basically a revolt against the domination of money by the Nazis with the Jews being perceived as the money-people.wow.
This is beyond stupid.
numbered approximately 1,175,000, representing 12.6% of the total population. It is expected to reach 16% of Israel’s population by 2030, and to grow to around 2 million people by 2033.The rapid demographic growth of the ultra-Orthodox population both impacts its economic, social, and political standing in Israel, and attracts considerable public, media, and political attention. In 2020, the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel
marriage. As a result, the ultra-Orthodox population is very young—almost 60% are under the age of 20, compared with 30% of the general Israeli population.Growth and Fertility Rates
At around 4% per year, the growth rate of the ultra-Orthodox population in Israel is higher than that in any developed country worldwide. This can be explained by high fertility rates, modern standards of living and medical care, and a low age at
rate for 2018–2019 was 4 live births for national-religious women; >3.2 for traditional-religious women; 2.5 for traditional non-religious women; and 2.2 for secular women.Over the last decade and a half, there has been a moderate decline in ultra-Orthodox fertility rates in >Israel, from 7.5 live births per woman between 1998 and 2004, to 6.6 between 2007 and 2019. Among other >Jewish women in Israel, the fertility
population in Israel has grown because of their high birth rates, adoption of ultra-orthodoxy, by the less orthodox, and immigration. I have no priors as to the extent of these.Nothing surprising there. So what? Omitted is the fact of increased labor market participation by the ultra-Orthodox, both men and women If that continues, the birth rates will come down. Also these facts don't address the extent to which the UO
The point I was about to make was that whatever the cause of the rapid growth of the UO population, its increasing size almost inevitably makes the government, whatever its composition, that much more likely to take account of the UO population'sdesires, needs, wishes etc. As Dan I believe pointed out earlier, that is one of the ways democracy works. But if the desires, needs, wishes of the UO population grow increasingly adamant , along with the growth in size of the UO population, one can see
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 7:20:36 PM UTC-6, dan....@gmail.com wrote:any.
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dkActually, Frank, in addition to American news sources, I get most of my news about Israel from the Jerusalem Post. I'd prefer to go to Haaretz, but it's behind a pay wall. Most of the time I feel I can detect and discount the JP's Right Wing slant, if
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 02:20:36 UTC+1:doses of it - I actually have been mistaken for a Jew ;D).
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dkButthurt Dan
Oh how I love the fact that you can't deal with a German that knows more about antisemitism and Israeli politics than you do hahaha - note I am not saying I have experienced as much antisemitism as you probably have (but yes, I have experienced small
In a large part it were the young Israelis, the people that defend your country with their lifes, that voted for Netanyahu. These are the people that you, a Californian with his Scuba Mask on, betray by painting Netanyahu as some fascist dictator a laPutin (and sounding like an antisemite by doing so).
It is no problem being critical about Netanyahu, but it is ofc wrong to paint him as some fascist Dictator a la Putin. Dan, you would do good as a spokesman for Abbas. Next time Abbas visits Germany, maybe you can accompany him and tell Scholz, thatNetanyahu has now committed the 51st Holocaust on the "Palestinians".
I revealed my last name in one of my first emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname, but ofc I also have German ancestors. It would've been easy to find me on fb (I take care that there isn't too much info about myself on the net though).Just shows what an ignorant and traumatized person you are - you hate Kant, Beethoven and everything good about Germany, even though you have no fucking idea about Kant or Beethoven in the first place; and you even hate Netanyahu. Damn Dan, in your
To illustrate something for you: Even you who is not black can identify a racist. And I who is not a jew can identify antisemitism. Very simple.
You should stop hating yourself and Israel.
Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 06:50:19 UTC+1:doses of it - I actually have been mistaken for a Jew ;D).
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 02:20:36 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dkButthurt Dan
Oh how I love the fact that you can't deal with a German that knows more about antisemitism and Israeli politics than you do hahaha - note I am not saying I have experienced as much antisemitism as you probably have (but yes, I have experienced small
la Putin (and sounding like an antisemite by doing so).In a large part it were the young Israelis, the people that defend your country with their lifes, that voted for Netanyahu. These are the people that you, a Californian with his Scuba Mask on, betray by painting Netanyahu as some fascist dictator a
Netanyahu has now committed the 51st Holocaust on the "Palestinians".It is no problem being critical about Netanyahu, but it is ofc wrong to paint him as some fascist Dictator a la Putin. Dan, you would do good as a spokesman for Abbas. Next time Abbas visits Germany, maybe you can accompany him and tell Scholz, that
Just shows what an ignorant and traumatized person you are - you hate Kant, Beethoven and everything good about Germany, even though you have no fucking idea about Kant or Beethoven in the first place; and you even hate Netanyahu. Damn Dan, in yourI revealed my last name in one of my first emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname, but ofc I also have German ancestors. It would've been easy to find me on fb (I take care that there isn't too much info about myself on the net though).
*for claritiy's sake: I have no affiliation with the polish culture (which I have high regard for) except for my surname, I view myself as culturally german and my grandparents did so as well - but still, I thought it was kind of funny of you callingme a german rottweiler, while almost every teacher I had, asked me where I came from, when they saw my surname. Even Poles generally don't assume it to be polish.
To illustrate something for you: Even you who is not black can identify a racist. And I who is not a jew can identify antisemitism. Very simple.
You should stop hating yourself and Israel.
On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 9:02:33 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:small doses of it - I actually have been mistaken for a Jew ;D).
Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 06:50:19 UTC+1:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 02:20:36 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dkButthurt Dan
Oh how I love the fact that you can't deal with a German that knows more about antisemitism and Israeli politics than you do hahaha - note I am not saying I have experienced as much antisemitism as you probably have (but yes, I have experienced
la Putin (and sounding like an antisemite by doing so).In a large part it were the young Israelis, the people that defend your country with their lifes, that voted for Netanyahu. These are the people that you, a Californian with his Scuba Mask on, betray by painting Netanyahu as some fascist dictator a
that Netanyahu has now committed the 51st Holocaust on the "Palestinians".It is no problem being critical about Netanyahu, but it is ofc wrong to paint him as some fascist Dictator a la Putin. Dan, you would do good as a spokesman for Abbas. Next time Abbas visits Germany, maybe you can accompany him and tell Scholz,
Just shows what an ignorant and traumatized person you are - you hate Kant, Beethoven and everything good about Germany, even though you have no fucking idea about Kant or Beethoven in the first place; and you even hate Netanyahu. Damn Dan, in yourI revealed my last name in one of my first emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname, but ofc I also have German ancestors. It would've been easy to find me on fb (I take care that there isn't too much info about myself on the net though).
me a german rottweiler, while almost every teacher I had, asked me where I came from, when they saw my surname. Even Poles generally don't assume it to be polish.*for claritiy's sake: I have no affiliation with the polish culture (which I have high regard for) except for my surname, I view myself as culturally german and my grandparents did so as well - but still, I thought it was kind of funny of you calling
nation between the UO population and the non-UO population. I have no desire for this to happen, and have no wish to deligitimitize Israel. As for "the orthodoxy of some palestinian muslims, and the antisemitism of the palestinian muslims," that goesTo illustrate something for you: Even you who is not black can identify a racist. And I who is not a jew can identify antisemitism. Very simple.
Marc S: I mention the growing population of the UO in Israel and the divergence between its views and those of the rest of the Israeli population because, as I said in a previous post, I foresee a possible political-social fracture in the IsraeliYou should stop hating yourself and Israel.
ljk...@aol.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 19:35:24 UTC+1:small doses of it - I actually have been mistaken for a Jew ;D).
On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 9:02:33 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 06:50:19 UTC+1:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 02:20:36 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dkButthurt Dan
Oh how I love the fact that you can't deal with a German that knows more about antisemitism and Israeli politics than you do hahaha - note I am not saying I have experienced as much antisemitism as you probably have (but yes, I have experienced
a la Putin (and sounding like an antisemite by doing so).In a large part it were the young Israelis, the people that defend your country with their lifes, that voted for Netanyahu. These are the people that you, a Californian with his Scuba Mask on, betray by painting Netanyahu as some fascist dictator
that Netanyahu has now committed the 51st Holocaust on the "Palestinians".It is no problem being critical about Netanyahu, but it is ofc wrong to paint him as some fascist Dictator a la Putin. Dan, you would do good as a spokesman for Abbas. Next time Abbas visits Germany, maybe you can accompany him and tell Scholz,
. Just shows what an ignorant and traumatized person you are - you hate Kant, Beethoven and everything good about Germany, even though you have no fucking idea about Kant or Beethoven in the first place; and you even hate Netanyahu. Damn Dan, in yourI revealed my last name in one of my first emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname, but ofc I also have German ancestors. It would've been easy to find me on fb (I take care that there isn't too much info about myself on the net though)
calling me a german rottweiler, while almost every teacher I had, asked me where I came from, when they saw my surname. Even Poles generally don't assume it to be polish.*for claritiy's sake: I have no affiliation with the polish culture (which I have high regard for) except for my surname, I view myself as culturally german and my grandparents did so as well - but still, I thought it was kind of funny of you
nation between the UO population and the non-UO population. I have no desire for this to happen, and have no wish to deligitimitize Israel. As for "the orthodoxy of some palestinian muslims, and the antisemitism of the palestinian muslims," that goesTo illustrate something for you: Even you who is not black can identify a racist. And I who is not a jew can identify antisemitism. Very simple.
Marc S: I mention the growing population of the UO in Israel and the divergence between its views and those of the rest of the Israeli population because, as I said in a previous post, I foresee a possible political-social fracture in the IsraeliYou should stop hating yourself and Israel.
Your view (as with Joshua Cohen's view of the Netanyahus) is too reductionist.you just neglect this. Instead you continue to think in black and white and portray Israel as a country that is divided between the orthodox and the secular Jews - this is not the reality.
As I have tried to point out:
The orthodox population in Israel is not homogenous. There is already a divergence of views between different orthodox jewish communities (some are pro-Netanyahu, others are actually against him). I have mentioned this at least two times already, yet
There are many secular Jews that voted for Netanyahu, and many orthodox Jews are actually secular in a political sense (similar to how many believing christians are secular in a political sense) - so the divide that you are imagining between thesecular and the orthodox is not a reality (orthodox and secular jews alike voted for Netanyahu) - at least not the way you describing it.
The way you are making things out to be is: In israel there are exactly two types of Jews: the orthodox and the secular (reductionist view) => the secular vote for the left, the orthodox vote for the right (another reductionist view) => divide betweenisraelis.
This is nonsense.secret to me) for causing social fracture. How about the secular-leftists would be more understanding of the orthodox community? How about the secular-leftists would do something against the antisemitism in their own party; maybe if the left was more
There ofc is a divide between different political fractions in Israel, as there is in any other country. Your wish for Israel to be undivided might be meant well, but it is not realistic, you won't get all the Jews to think the same...
It is also revealing that you only criticise the (diverse) orthodox community for causing "social fracture", but not criticising the secular the same way. You only point your fingers at the "orthodox" (whatver you imagine an orthodox Jew to be is a
Netanyahu might be an orthodox jew, but he is a secular politician.this clear: Rise of orthodox Jews => divide in Israel.
You might not wish to delegitimize Israel, but yet you do. Let me show you:
According to the "Three Ds of antisemitism" as formulated by Natan Sharansky "the delegitimiztion of Israel" refers to the denial of the Jewish people's right to self determination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ds_of_antisemitism
You indirectly deny the Jews their right to be as orthodox as they wish to be (by accusing the orthodox for causing social fracture). For you it seems the "good Jew" is the secular Jew, and the "bad Jew" is the orthodox Jew - your argumentation makes
Either you support the Jews in their right to self determination, and that also means supporting their right to be more religious. As long as Israel is not a theocratic fascist state (as Iran is) I could care less if the ruling party is made up mainlyof orthodox Jews (of which there are many different types) or secular Jews (of which there are many different types)
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 08:11:06 UTC+1:small doses of it - I actually have been mistaken for a Jew ;D).
ljk...@aol.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 19:35:24 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 9:02:33 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 06:50:19 UTC+1:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2023 um 02:20:36 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
but what the fuck... you sound like an antisemite.
A German rottweiler deciding who is an antisemite ?!?
ROTFL !!!
dkButthurt Dan
Oh how I love the fact that you can't deal with a German that knows more about antisemitism and Israeli politics than you do hahaha - note I am not saying I have experienced as much antisemitism as you probably have (but yes, I have experienced
dictator a la Putin (and sounding like an antisemite by doing so).In a large part it were the young Israelis, the people that defend your country with their lifes, that voted for Netanyahu. These are the people that you, a Californian with his Scuba Mask on, betray by painting Netanyahu as some fascist
that Netanyahu has now committed the 51st Holocaust on the "Palestinians".It is no problem being critical about Netanyahu, but it is ofc wrong to paint him as some fascist Dictator a la Putin. Dan, you would do good as a spokesman for Abbas. Next time Abbas visits Germany, maybe you can accompany him and tell Scholz,
though). Just shows what an ignorant and traumatized person you are - you hate Kant, Beethoven and everything good about Germany, even though you have no fucking idea about Kant or Beethoven in the first place; and you even hate Netanyahu. Damn Dan, inI revealed my last name in one of my first emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname, but ofc I also have German ancestors. It would've been easy to find me on fb (I take care that there isn't too much info about myself on the net
calling me a german rottweiler, while almost every teacher I had, asked me where I came from, when they saw my surname. Even Poles generally don't assume it to be polish.*for claritiy's sake: I have no affiliation with the polish culture (which I have high regard for) except for my surname, I view myself as culturally german and my grandparents did so as well - but still, I thought it was kind of funny of you
nation between the UO population and the non-UO population. I have no desire for this to happen, and have no wish to deligitimitize Israel. As for "the orthodoxy of some palestinian muslims, and the antisemitism of the palestinian muslims," that goesTo illustrate something for you: Even you who is not black can identify a racist. And I who is not a jew can identify antisemitism. Very simple.
Marc S: I mention the growing population of the UO in Israel and the divergence between its views and those of the rest of the Israeli population because, as I said in a previous post, I foresee a possible political-social fracture in the IsraeliYou should stop hating yourself and Israel.
you just neglect this. Instead you continue to think in black and white and portray Israel as a country that is divided between the orthodox and the secular Jews - this is not the reality.Your view (as with Joshua Cohen's view of the Netanyahus) is too reductionist.
As I have tried to point out:
The orthodox population in Israel is not homogenous. There is already a divergence of views between different orthodox jewish communities (some are pro-Netanyahu, others are actually against him). I have mentioned this at least two times already, yet
secular and the orthodox is not a reality (orthodox and secular jews alike voted for Netanyahu) - at least not the way you describing it.There are many secular Jews that voted for Netanyahu, and many orthodox Jews are actually secular in a political sense (similar to how many believing christians are secular in a political sense) - so the divide that you are imagining between the
between israelis.The way you are making things out to be is: In israel there are exactly two types of Jews: the orthodox and the secular (reductionist view) => the secular vote for the left, the orthodox vote for the right (another reductionist view) => divide
secret to me) for causing social fracture. How about the secular-leftists would be more understanding of the orthodox community? How about the secular-leftists would do something against the antisemitism in their own party; maybe if the left was moreThis is nonsense.
There ofc is a divide between different political fractions in Israel, as there is in any other country. Your wish for Israel to be undivided might be meant well, but it is not realistic, you won't get all the Jews to think the same...
It is also revealing that you only criticise the (diverse) orthodox community for causing "social fracture", but not criticising the secular the same way. You only point your fingers at the "orthodox" (whatver you imagine an orthodox Jew to be is a
this clear: Rise of orthodox Jews => divide in Israel.Netanyahu might be an orthodox jew, but he is a secular politician.
You might not wish to delegitimize Israel, but yet you do. Let me show you:
According to the "Three Ds of antisemitism" as formulated by Natan Sharansky "the delegitimiztion of Israel" refers to the denial of the Jewish people's right to self determination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ds_of_antisemitism
You indirectly deny the Jews their right to be as orthodox as they wish to be (by accusing the orthodox for causing social fracture). For you it seems the "good Jew" is the secular Jew, and the "bad Jew" is the orthodox Jew - your argumentation makes
mainly of orthodox Jews (of which there are many different types) or secular Jews (of which there are many different types)Either you support the Jews in their right to self determination, and that also means supporting their right to be more religious. As long as Israel is not a theocratic fascist state (as Iran is) I could care less if the ruling party is made up
*couldn't care less
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)
Dan, tell me, why do you hate Israel so much?
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:and fascist party?
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Again you are missing my point.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a racist
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
You are blind on one eye.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 15:04:23 UTC+1:racist and fascist party?
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Again you are missing my point.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
*of being "ultra right", for...
You are blind on one eye.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.You sound like a person that would lecture blacks for having voted for Trump, while I am the person that defends blacks from idiots like you.
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 8:16:22 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:racist and fascist party?
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 15:04:23 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:Again you are missing my point.
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
justifiably favor -- may create problems within the Israeli state.*of being "ultra right", for...
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
You are blind on one eye.You sound like a person that would lecture blacks for having voted for Trump, while I am the person that defends blacks from idiots like you.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.
I'm not denying the right of Israeli Jews to be as Orthodox as they wish. All I'm saying is that if the percentage of Orthodox Jews in Israel continues to rise, as it seems likely to do, that -- given their demographic weight and the policies they
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 8:16:22 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:racist and fascist party?
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 15:04:23 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Again you are missing my point.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
justifiably favor -- may create problems within the Israeli state.See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
*of being "ultra right", for...
You are blind on one eye.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.You sound like a person that would lecture blacks for having voted for Trump, while I am the person that defends blacks from idiots like you.
I'm not denying the right of Israeli Jews to be as Orthodox as they wish. All I'm saying is that if the percentage of Orthodox Jews in Israel continues to rise, as it seems likely to do, that -- given their demographic weight and the policies they
Question for Marc: what does 'ofc' mean; you use it frequently and I've not seen what the acronym (if it is one) stands for.
Bob Harper
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 8:16:22 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:racist and fascist party?
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 15:04:23 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:Again you are missing my point.
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
justifiably favor -- may create problems within the Israeli state.*of being "ultra right", for...
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
You are blind on one eye.You sound like a person that would lecture blacks for having voted for Trump, while I am the person that defends blacks from idiots like you.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.
I'm not denying the right of Israeli Jews to be as Orthodox as they wish. All I'm saying is that if the percentage of Orthodox Jews in Israel continues to rise, as it seems likely to do, that -- given their demographic weight and the policies they
On 1/19/23 8:15 AM, Lawrence Kart wrote:racist and fascist party?
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 8:16:22 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 15:04:23 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:Again you are missing my point.
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
justifiably favor -- may create problems within the Israeli state.*of being "ultra right", for...
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
You are blind on one eye.You sound like a person that would lecture blacks for having voted for Trump, while I am the person that defends blacks from idiots like you.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.
I'm not denying the right of Israeli Jews to be as Orthodox as they wish. All I'm saying is that if the percentage of Orthodox Jews in Israel continues to rise, as it seems likely to do, that -- given their demographic weight and the policies they
As Frank wisely pointed out, part of the problem for Israel (and for
many other parliamentary-based governments) is the system of
proportional representation, which results in the existence of numerous small, narrowly focused political parties which must somehow be wrangled into a working majority. The result is usually a fundamental
instability, as we see in, for example, Israel and Italy.
Question for Marc: what does 'ofc' mean; you use it frequently and I've
not seen what the acronym (if it is one) stands for.
Bob Harper
Question for Marc: what does 'ofc' mean; you use it frequently and I've not seen what the acronym (if it is one) stands for.
Bob Harper"Of course?"
Bob Harper schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 17:33:17 UTC+1:racist and fascist party?
On 1/19/23 8:15 AM, Lawrence Kart wrote:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 8:16:22 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 15:04:23 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 um 10:40:07 UTC+1:
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:Again you are missing my point.
(there were also many hispanic and black people that voted for Trump - not just white americans...)Trump 2020 got 8 percent of the black vote. Eight percent.
Just wondering whether there is some place online where you're lecturing black people, while you're telling Jewish participants here how wrong they are.Projecting your own faults again?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
justifiably favor -- may create problems within the Israeli state.*of being "ultra right", for...
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu?
Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for Netanyahu?
You are blind on one eye.You sound like a person that would lecture blacks for having voted for Trump, while I am the person that defends blacks from idiots like you.
At least I have arguments, as opposed to jokes like you and Dan.
I'm not denying the right of Israeli Jews to be as Orthodox as they wish. All I'm saying is that if the percentage of Orthodox Jews in Israel continues to rise, as it seems likely to do, that -- given their demographic weight and the policies they
As Frank wisely pointed out, part of the problem for Israel (and for
many other parliamentary-based governments) is the system of
proportional representation, which results in the existence of numerous
small, narrowly focused political parties which must somehow be wrangled
into a working majority. The result is usually a fundamental
instability, as we see in, for example, Israel and Italy.
Hmmm... an interesting point and probably true generally, I would have to think more about it.
Question for Marc: what does 'ofc' mean; you use it frequently and I've
not seen what the acronym (if it is one) stands for.
Bob Harper
of course
I don't see the democracy in Israel under threat even if
more people would become orthodox, hence I can't see
a problem with more israelis becoming orthodox.
Have you ever talked to people from Chabad? Like
students etc. They are no threat... If more people
would become like them I would welcome it.
There are ofc not so good orthodox jews as well.
It is still a mystery to me image you have about an
orthodox jew... Do you think Netanyahu is a danger?
Is he an orthodox Jew for you? He seems actually
pretty normal to me, quite liberal honestly. A good
hearted man who did very much for his country
(and maybe he did somethign wrong just like
every other politican).
I revealed my last name in one of my first
emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname,
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a racistand fascist party?
See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu? Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted forNetanyahu?
At least I have arguments...
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 20. Januar 2023 um 06:03:47 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:50:19 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
I revealed my last name in one of my first
emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname,
Sorry, I did not notice -- and I would not remember it anyway.
Krauts are krauts regardless of name.
dkYes, and I am a proud Kraut, but I am also proud of my (presumably) Polish surname which I think has a very nice ring to it (sounds more spanish, my spanish teacher actually wouldn't believe me that I wasn't spanish).
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 8:34:50 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
I don't see the democracy in Israel under threat even ifYou don't see the problem with fucking rabbis dictating
more people would become orthodox, hence I can't see
a problem with more israelis becoming orthodox.
what people can eat or not, how can they dress or not,
how they can spend weekends or not, what movies they
can see or not ?!?
Have you ever talked to people from Chabad? LikeIt is none of your fucking business, kraut!
students etc. They are no threat... If more people
would become like them I would welcome it.
There are ofc not so good orthodox jews as well."not so good"? How about chaff?
It is still a mystery to me image you have about anYes, definitely.
orthodox jew... Do you think Netanyahu is a danger?
Is he an orthodox Jew for you? He seems actuallyYour notion of "normalcy" is beyond stupid.
pretty normal to me, quite liberal honestly. A good
hearted man who did very much for his country
(and maybe he did somethign wrong just like
every other politican).
So far you have demonstrated below zero
understanding of Jews, Israel, and Jewish
matters.
Read this for starters:
https://asiatimes.com/2023/01/the-demographics-behind-israels-right-wing-shift/
dk
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:50:19 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
I revealed my last name in one of my first
emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname,
Sorry, I did not notice -- and I would not remember it anyway.
Krauts are krauts regardless of name.
dk
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
On Thursday, 19 January 2023 at 14:04:23 UTC, Marc S wrote:racist and fascist party?
Aren't you the one (among Andy and Ray) who is telling Bob Harper and other conservatives how wrong they were for voting for Trump? How they were voting for someone who is dividing the USA and who seeks to destroy democracy? How they voted for a
Of course thinking people like Ray and myself are going to accuse Trump for being a liar, a cheat and an incompetent leader, which he manifestly is. The "Big Lie" has for a very long time now been obvious to anyone except a deluded Trump supporter.
Netanyahu?See Andy's first post in which he indirectly accuses Ruth Wisse for being "ultra right", for holding the wrong opinions wrt to Israel and Netanyahu? Isn't he also "lecturing" Jews? Isn't all the left-wing media "lecturing" Israel for having voted for
Netanyahu's record of indiscriminate and illegal invasion of Palestinian's land in the West Bank is well known. What is becoming a serious problem for the international community is the number of Palestinians that are being shot, day by day, by theIsraeli army. And this includes journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh. The UN has been quite clear that she was shot by a member of the Israeli forces. But of course the government won't accept this or take any action against those responsible.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/24/1107254898/israeli-gunfire-shireen-abu-akleh-un-human-rights
At least I have arguments...
No, you have delusions.
Netanyahu's record of indiscriminate and illegal invasion of Palestinian's land in the West Bank is well known.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/24/1107254898/israeli-gunfire-shireen-abu-akleh-un-human-rights
At least I have arguments...
No, you have delusions.
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
Who has "friends" on this group?...I ask the question...
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
I distinctly recall reading that the IDF was investigating and said the shots that killed the journalist probably came from the IDF. There was exchange of gunfire going own between IDF and terrorists and the Journalist put herself at risk (as theyoften do) and was hit most likely by accident. There is simply zero reason to think that Israel targets journalists, except one - rabid hatred of Israel.
There is simply zero reason to think that Israel targets journalists, except one - rabid hatred of Israel.
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:59:08 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:often do) and was hit most likely by accident. There is simply zero reason to think that Israel targets journalists, except one - rabid hatred of Israel.
I distinctly recall reading that the IDF was investigating and said the shots that killed the journalist probably came from the IDF. There was exchange of gunfire going own between IDF and terrorists and the Journalist put herself at risk (as they
I don't agree with you at all, and nor do many international organisations like the UN or large portions of the news media who don't have a "rabid hatred of Israel". Israel stands or falls in the eyes of the international community by the actions ittakes, like any other country.
You have in the past made many balanced and informative comments about the Jewish community and I respect you for that, but I'm not going to agree with you here, and I don't know where you get the word "rabid" from here either.
There is simply zero reason to think that Israel targets journalists, except one - rabid hatred of Israel.
Rabid hatred of Israel?
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israel-has-detained-130-palestinian-journalists-in-2022-64050
Henk
Do you really think it is IDF or government policy to target journalists? You can admit it, I won't reply.
It's also not that I am making the term antisemite meaningless, the problem is just, as it was always the case throughout history, there are a shit ton of antisemites around.
I'm done and I'm disgusted.
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:42:23 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
It's also not that I am making the term antisemite meaningless, the problem is just, as it was always the case throughout history, there are a shit ton of antisemites around.Why is anyone talking to this asshat?
On 1/20/2023 10:10 AM, HT wrote:
Armed Forces to Prince Harry's "chess pieces". Yet, for political reasons, little attention is often given to changing certain attitudes.Do you really think it is IDF or government policy to target journalists? You can admit it, I won't reply.
It is not an official policy. The initiative is taken at a lower level. It is often a mix of a lack of discipline and a general attitude towards those being targeted. It is the attitude that worries the top most. See the reactions of the British
I forget exactly what), but it gets to keep it. Countries that gain territory in defensive wars traditionally aren't expected to give it back (except Israel). The West Bank was not historically Palestinian. The vast majority of Palestinians lived in what<g> Why wouldn't you reply - if you feel that way?
HenkBecause I don't want to get into an extended pointless argument. What I like to do is point out facts as I understand them. Rarely are the points responded to it all.
The pro-Palestinian camp has decided that (at least) the West Bank is Palestinian territory. The only basis for that at all was the UN partition plan, which the Arabs did not accept and waged a war to destroy Israel. Israel took territory in that war (
So if you believe the West Bank is Palestinian by right, then the settlements amount to an invasion, the settlers themselves then become combatants and a fair target for being killed. Any presence of Israel at all in the WB is a crime and the IDF isthen not justified in responding to attacks on them or civilians.
A fair, middle view would be that two sides are fighting for territory and that the rules of war should pertain (such as not targeting civilians, which Israel does not). You hear that Israel shells apartment building in Gaza or Lebanon and that is awar crime. But it is a war crime to fire rockets from the roofs of those buildings and the rules of war then permit retaliation. It is simply necessary. How can you defend yourself otherwise? But you never hear any of that from the Anti-Israel side. I
I see a clear analogy here. Thoughtless, reckless one-sided support for the Palestinians lead to Jew deaths. It is as simple as that.leading to even more Israeli deaths. That's what the Arabs say. It's their stated policy. I am not making it up.
P.S. The anti-Israel camp implicitly seems to think that if Israel would just up and withdraw from the WB, that peace would reign between them and the new Palestinian state, when all the evidence screams that the new state would become a terrorist base
I'm done and I'm disgusted.
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 10:33:22 AM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/20/2023 10:10 AM, HT wrote:
Armed Forces to Prince Harry's "chess pieces". Yet, for political reasons, little attention is often given to changing certain attitudes.Do you really think it is IDF or government policy to target journalists? You can admit it, I won't reply.
It is not an official policy. The initiative is taken at a lower level. It is often a mix of a lack of discipline and a general attitude towards those being targeted. It is the attitude that worries the top most. See the reactions of the British
(I forget exactly what), but it gets to keep it. Countries that gain territory in defensive wars traditionally aren't expected to give it back (except Israel). The West Bank was not historically Palestinian. The vast majority of Palestinians lived in<g> Why wouldn't you reply - if you feel that way?
HenkBecause I don't want to get into an extended pointless argument. What I like to do is point out facts as I understand them. Rarely are the points responded to it all.
The pro-Palestinian camp has decided that (at least) the West Bank is Palestinian territory. The only basis for that at all was the UN partition plan, which the Arabs did not accept and waged a war to destroy Israel. Israel took territory in that war
then not justified in responding to attacks on them or civilians.So if you believe the West Bank is Palestinian by right, then the settlements amount to an invasion, the settlers themselves then become combatants and a fair target for being killed. Any presence of Israel at all in the WB is a crime and the IDF is
war crime. But it is a war crime to fire rockets from the roofs of those buildings and the rules of war then permit retaliation. It is simply necessary. How can you defend yourself otherwise? But you never hear any of that from the Anti-Israel side. IA fair, middle view would be that two sides are fighting for territory and that the rules of war should pertain (such as not targeting civilians, which Israel does not). You hear that Israel shells apartment building in Gaza or Lebanon and that is a
base leading to even more Israeli deaths. That's what the Arabs say. It's their stated policy. I am not making it up.I see a clear analogy here. Thoughtless, reckless one-sided support for the Palestinians lead to Jew deaths. It is as simple as that.
P.S. The anti-Israel camp implicitly seems to think that if Israel would just up and withdraw from the WB, that peace would reign between them and the new Palestinian state, when all the evidence screams that the new state would become a terrorist
I'm done and I'm disgusted.Have I made any of those anti-Israel points? Pardon my French, but I think the Palestinians have had their heads up their asses at least since 1948.
Op vrijdag 20 januari 2023 om 17:23:36 UTC+1 schreef mswd...@gmail.com:
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:42:23 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:He is so happy and young ...
It's also not that I am making the term antisemite meaningless, the problem is just, as it was always the case throughout history, there are a shit ton of antisemites around.Why is anyone talking to this asshat?
Henk
I'm done and I'm disgusted.Understandable. Let's find another subject.
Henk
I'm done and I'm disgusted.
Understandable. Let's find another subject.
Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 20. Januar 2023 um 13:04:43 UTC+1:pretty open-minded, good hearted people.
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 20. Januar 2023 um 06:03:47 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:50:19 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
I revealed my last name in one of my first
emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname,
Sorry, I did not notice -- and I would not remember it anyway.
Krauts are krauts regardless of name.
Forgot to post: Chabad on campus (influence of orthodox judaism on secular and non-secular jews on campus. They don't seem to be dictating these people anything. The women are not even covering their hair, as many orthodox jews do. etc. They seemdkYes, and I am a proud Kraut, but I am also proud of my (presumably) Polish surname which I think has a very nice ring to it (sounds more spanish, my spanish teacher actually wouldn't believe me that I wasn't spanish).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKjDecGSuGs
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:04:59 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
I'm done and I'm disgusted.
Understandable. Let's find another subject.The matter has been closed at
least since Schumann's time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTDVhL-u2Ps
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 11:07:34 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:pretty open-minded, good hearted people.
Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 20. Januar 2023 um 13:04:43 UTC+1:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 20. Januar 2023 um 06:03:47 UTC+1: >>>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:50:19 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:Forgot to post: Chabad on campus (influence of orthodox judaism on secular and non-secular jews on campus. They don't seem to be dictating these people anything. The women are not even covering their hair, as many orthodox jews do. etc. They seem
Yes, and I am a proud Kraut, but I am also proud of my (presumably) Polish surname which I think has a very nice ring to it (sounds more spanish, my spanish teacher actually wouldn't believe me that I wasn't spanish).
I revealed my last name in one of my first
emails to you, it's actually a rare polish surname,
Sorry, I did not notice -- and I would not remember it anyway.
Krauts are krauts regardless of name.
dk
acceptable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKjDecGSuGs
AIUI Haredi/Hasedi women do not shave off their hair until they marry, and that wigs are generally regarded as perfectly legitimate head coverings as an alternative to scarves, although there are some rabbis who think that wigs are not really
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Op zaterdag 21 januari 2023 om 01:20:18 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 9:04:59 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
I'm done and I'm disgusted.
Understandable. Let's find another subject.The matter has been closed at
least since Schumann's time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTDVhL-u2PsThanks! A great closure of this thread.
Henk
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:nor to anyone else) to decide who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I wonder.
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his posts have. That said, it's not up to you (
Bob Harper
On 1/22/2023 9:01 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so
it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as
an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there
is none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and
repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his
posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to
decide who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say,
but would never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the
same thing? I wonder.
Bob Harper
Has Andy equally complained about Dan, who is also foul-mouthed and rude
and so forth?
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and
repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his
posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to decide
who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would
never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I wonder.
Bob Harper
On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 13:01:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to decide who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I wonder.
Bob HarperI think Andy is well aware that he isn't a moderator, so why is it necessary to point it out?
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his
posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to decide
who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I wonder.
Bob Harper
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 5:39:28 AM UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 13:01:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to decide who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I wonder.
Bob HarperI think Andy is well aware that he isn't a moderator, so why is it necessary to point it out?
Andy didn't say or 'decide' our wonderful German faux-philosopher wasn't allowed to post here. That would be futile.
All he said was "you have no friends here".
Herman schrieb am Montag, 23. Januar 2023 um 08:04:45 UTC+1:sure that I am no narcissist, but he is. I actually have a good understanding of what narcissism is (Herman is a narcissist and opportunist for example). And secondly it's true that I have no friends here (like... do you guys think I would want t o be
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 5:39:28 AM UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 13:01:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is
none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to decide
who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would
never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I wonder.
Bob HarperI think Andy is well aware that he isn't a moderator, so why is it necessary to point it out?
Andy didn't say or 'decide' our wonderful German faux-philosopher wasn't allowed to post here. That would be futile.That's not all he said. And I don't really care about him calling me a narcissist or telling the truth by saying that I have no friends here (I don't think you have either btw, you may have people you write with, but "friends"?). Because firstly: I am
All he said was "you have no friends here".
What I did here was not about me, you can all hate me as much as you want, what I did here was for Israel and truth.
What I did here was not about me, you can all hate me as much as you want, what I did here was for Israel and truth.
On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 13:01:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:I think Andy is well aware that he isn't a moderator, so why is it necessary to point it out?
He has simply expressed an opinion, probably shared by all of us (certainly moi aussi). Exactly the same as you do, and yet you cannot even restrict yourself whilst at the same time reminding everyone of the bleeding obvious.
Ray Hall, Taree
hvt...@xs4all.nl schrieb am Montag, 23. Januar 2023 um 10:41:09 UTC+1:view)
What I did here was not about me, you can all hate me as much as you want, what I did here was for Israel and truth.Did you achieve anything at all? If not, why did you do it?
HenkIt's on you to reflect upon your mistakes. Same goes for Dan, Andy, Ray and Herman.
Think about your question (which shows that you are inable to reflect and that you didn't learn from the past).
Did Georg Elser achieve anything at all when he tried to assassinate Hitler? Would you ask him these same stupid questions? Was it wrong of him to do it because he didn't achieve his goal?
(Sidenote: How would you know that I didn't achieve anything? Maybe Dan views Andy and you a bit differently now than he did before. Or whatever, I am just coming up with ideas about things I might have changed; not saying that Dan actually changed his
You are only looking at the utility of things ("Did you achieve anything?"; instrumental reason - Horkheimer), objective reason would try to grasp things as a "whole" (noone can understand "everything") and determine whether what I did was "good" or "bad".
What I did here was not about me, you can all hate me as much as you want, what I did here was for Israel and truth.Did you achieve anything at all? If not, why did you do it?
Henk
It's on you to reflect upon your mistakes. Same goes for Dan, Andy, Ray and Herman.
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 5:39:28 AM UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 13:01:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:Andy didn't say or 'decide' our wonderful German faux-philosopher wasn't allowed to post here. That would be futile.
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:I think Andy is well aware that he isn't a moderator, so why is it necessary to point it out?
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:A reminder, Andy, that you are not the moderator of this group (there is >>> none, it need not be said). I agree that Marc is foul-mouthed and
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
repetitive, and believe that it vitiates much (most?) of the value his
posts have. That said, it's not up to you (nor to anyone else) to decide >>> who posts and who doesn't. I don't like much of what you say, but would
never dream of forbidding you to say it. Can you say the same thing? I
wonder.
Bob Harper
All he said was "you have no friends here".
Op maandag 23 januari 2023 om 11:30:01 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
It's on you to reflect upon your mistakes. Same goes for Dan, Andy, Ray and Herman.So you are delegating?
BTW, was it necessary to compare yourself with Georg Elser?
Henk
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 2:46:41 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
Coming from you, this is hysterical. LOL!You sound very happy, Frank.
Coming from you, this is hysterical. LOL!
I didn't compare myself to Georg Elser, I made a point you ofc won't understand. No surprise.
Op 2023-01-23 om 15:51 schreef Marc S:
Herman schrieb am Montag, 23. Januar 2023 um 15:36:32 UTC+1:
You sound very happy, Frank.
Coming from the guy who always complains; just look at this thread: did you add anything of value?Nobody did.
Herman schrieb am Montag, 23. Januar 2023 um 15:36:32 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 2:46:41 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
You sound very happy, Frank.
Coming from you, this is hysterical. LOL!
Coming from the guy who always complains; just look at this thread: did you add anything of value?
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 4:31:34 PM UTC+1, Gerard wrote:
Op 2023-01-23 om 15:51 schreef Marc S:
Herman schrieb am Montag, 23. Januar 2023 um 15:36:32 UTC+1:
You sound very happy, Frank.
Plus, "you sound very happy" is not a complaint.Coming from the guy who always complains; just look at this thread: did you add anything of value?Nobody did.
And yes, this topic is about the biggest shit stain on RMCR ever.
However, I trust MS will do even better in the future.
Op 2023-01-23 om 15:51 schreef Marc S:
Herman schrieb am Montag, 23. Januar 2023 um 15:36:32 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 2:46:41 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
You sound very happy, Frank.
Coming from you, this is hysterical. LOL!
Coming from the guy who always complains; just look at this thread: did you add anything of value?Nobody did.
Op maandag 23 januari 2023 om 15:51:55 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
I didn't compare myself to Georg Elser, I made a point you ofc won't understand. No surprise.You excused your ineffectiveness on RMCR by pointing out Georg Elser's ineffectiveness during WWII - as if the conditions were even remotely comparable.
You are the first German I met who believed that he/she could justify his/her actions by referring to German resistance.
I don't understand that. No surprise.
Henk
Op maandag 23 januari 2023 om 18:09:19 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
We seem at least to agree that you have been ineffective as a self-proclaimed advocate of Israel and truth, in spite of serious efforts.
Let's assume it isn't the content of your posts, but I for one wouldn't bet on it, it must be the form you have chosen. Who knows what will happen ...
Did you ever read Aristoteles' Rhetorics? If so, read it again and try to understand it.
Henk
Op maandag 23 januari 2023 om 18:09:19 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
We seem at least to agree that you have been ineffective as a self-proclaimed advocate of Israel and truth, in spite of serious efforts.
Let's assume it isn't the content of your posts, but I for one wouldn't bet on it, it must be the form you have chosen. Who knows what will happen ...
Did you ever read Aristoteles' Rhetorics? If so, read it again and try to understand it.
Henk
And also, thank you for showing up on a positive thread about Israel just to deride Israel.
Op maandag 23 januari 2023 om 19:50:54 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
And also, thank you for showing up on a positive thread about Israel just to deride Israel.Putting advocating for Israel and the truth on the same level as advocating for an idea of philosophy
shows that you care as much about Israel and truth as I about philosophy - and that is very little.
Perhaps you should leave the defence of Israel to Israeli. They and their children have a stake in it and deserve our respect only for that reason alone.
Henk
Op maandag 23 januari 2023 om 19:50:54 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
Perhaps you should leave the defence of Israel to Israeli. They and their children have a stake in it and deserve our respect only for that reason alone.
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's
of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an
intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
On 2023-01-23 02:01:13 +0000, Bob Harper said:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's
of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an
intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
Completely untrue. Absolutely false.
I consider Bob to be my friend. We have corresponded for years on this newsgroup. When you talk with someone for this length of time you feel
you know them.
I also consider Herman, Frank, Andy, Dan, Ray, Mark, Henk and everyone
else here to be my friend, unless they doth protest (too much).
We gather here daily to yell at each other, agree with each other,
insult each other, and, occasionally, talk about music with each other. What's not to like?
-Owen
However, Andy wasn't saying to Bob 'he had no freinds'.
He was saying this about Marc S, our learned member,
who's always telling other people they don't get it.
You still haven't answered my questions, Dan.
Why do you hate yourself and Israel so much?
On 2023-01-23 02:01:13 +0000, Bob Harper said:
On 1/20/23 5:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 13:01:32 UTC, Marc S wrote:
Thank you for proving that you are an antisemite.
Coming from you the term "antisemite" has absolutely no meaning so it's
of no consequence whatever.
You are simply a foul-mouthed, narcissistic internet troll posing as an
intellectual. You have no friends on this ng.
Completely untrue. Absolutely false.
I consider Bob to be my friend. We have corresponded for years on this newsgroup. When you talk with someone for this length of time you feel
you know them.
I also consider Herman, Frank, Andy, Dan, Ray, Mark, Henk and everyone
else here to be my friend, unless they doth protest (too much).
We gather here daily to yell at each other, agree with each other,
insult each other, and, occasionally, talk about music with each other. What's not to like?
-Owen
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 6:34:16 PM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
However, Andy wasn't saying to Bob 'he had no freinds'.Typical normative prescriptive kraut mindset.
He was saying this about Marc S, our learned member,
who's always telling other people they don't get it.
dk
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:42:05 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
You still haven't answered my questions, Dan.You must be halucinating. Quick, grab
Why do you hate yourself and Israel so much?
your Haloperidol and take a 3s dose!
dk
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 06:45:33 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:42:05 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
You still haven't answered my questions, Dan.
Why do you hate yourself and Israel so much?
You must be halucinating. Quick, grab
Says the guy who is paranoid about everything?
Who was advocating to vaccinate everyone
as Austria's government proposed to?
I was just observing how you think that Netanyahu is a danger
: and a guy made "out of the same clothes as Putin"
(you are seriously deranged).
"Sorry" that Israel didn't respect your wishes,
as to say: The world is not about you, Dan.
I was also just asking questions.
I already listed a few points that indicate that you are paranoid, but since you obviously have memory lapses, I will list them again:actually knowledgeable about this topic, you would know that the amount of people who died because of covid is actually lower than what the governments were telling us (not because the government wanted to bullshit us, as you make it out in your paranoia,
- You told me that the "real" number of people who died because of covid was actually way higher than what the governments were telling us; that the governments purposefully skewed the statistics is what you told me. (paranoid behaviour) -- If you were
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:54:44 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 06:45:33 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:42:05 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
You still haven't answered my questions, Dan.
Why do you hate yourself and Israel so much?
You must be halucinating. Quick, grab
Says the guy who is paranoid about everything?Me paranoid? About what or whom?
Who was advocating to vaccinate everyoneNot "advocating", just not objecting to the idea.
as Austria's government proposed to?
After all, isn't this precisely what Austrians
deserve? Nuance does not appear to be in
your brain, your senses, or your vocabulary.
dk
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:54:44 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
I was just observing how you think that Netanyahu is a dangerApparently so do many other Israelis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95iM6jlaKWk
: and a guy made "out of the same clothes as Putin"
As many have observed before I was even born,
security and secret service people are all cut
from the same cloth (not c;pthes). They tend
to obsess about traitors and conspiracies.
They tend object to transparency and they
tend to push toward authoritarianism, etc...
They push back on any kind of judicial
oversight.
They always claim they are doing this out of
patriotism in order to "save" theire respective
nations.
(you are seriously deranged).
Certainly less than you are.
"Sorry" that Israel didn't respect your wishes,More than half of Israeli voters did not vote
for Netanyahu. What do you say to them?
BTW I have no wishes about Netanyahu,
either for or against. As you know well,
Israeli citizens living who live overseas
cannot and do not vote.
as to say: The world is not about you, Dan.Absolutely! Watch that YT clip again.
That crowd is not protesting against
me. They are protesting against Bibi
and his acolytes.
I was also just asking questions.Brainfucked imbecile krautkopf.
dk
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