Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe fora major position:
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.mind him here at all.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn't
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe fora major position:
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.mind him here at all.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn't
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe fora major position:
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.mind him here at all.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn't
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 12:09:43 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:a major position:
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe for
t mind him here at all.
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn'
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
Tomomi Nishimoto is better than
all those listed above. And did you
notice you did not mention any
women?
dk
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 12:09:43 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:a major position:
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe for
t mind him here at all.
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn'
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
Tomomi Nishimoto is better than
all those listed above. And did you
notice you did not mention any
women?
dk
On 1/8/23 2:21 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
Tomomi Nishimoto is better than
all those listed above. And did you
notice you did not mention any
women?
Dan, I had not seen your post--20
minutes ahead of mine. Not sure
about the 'all'--but she's good.
Very good.
Tomomi Nishimoto is better than
all those listed above. And did you
notice you did not mention any
women?
dk
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:21:41 PM UTC-6, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
Tomomi Nishimoto is better than
all those listed above. And did you
notice you did not mention any
women?
I didn't really notice because I don't
know any women who would be
considered "leading candidates".
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 7:09:43 AM UTC+11, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:for a major position:
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe
t mind him here at all.Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn'
for the job anyway.Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?Perhaps, as suggested in an earlier thread, these bands should follow the lead of the Vienna Phil and abolish the position of MD entirely? There seem to be so few half-decent conductors around, according to your estimation, that nobody really qualifies
I listen to the Berlin Phil quite a lot these days, and I don't think they produce sonic sludge anymore. Dudamel reminds me of one of those doowop songs ...
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.
There may be also some leading vocalists and instrumentalists who want to turn to conducting later in life.onstage and make career decisions accordingly.
I know one pianist turned conductor who put the change down to fear of forgetting the music onstage later on in life as more memory "incidents" started to accumulate. Fear real or imagined - it's still fear. Musicians can get very anxious about going
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 10:46:48 AM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:onstage and make career decisions accordingly.
There may be also some leading vocalists and instrumentalists who want to turn to conducting later in life.
I know one pianist turned conductor who put the change down to fear of forgetting the music onstage later on in life as more memory "incidents" started to accumulate. Fear real or imagined - it's still fear. Musicians can get very anxious about going
However, in such a case the musician has to learn an entirely new repertoire when he or she is fifty years old and he (or she) will turn into one of those conductors whose face is buried in the score most of the time.
Orchestras don't like this. Good conductors don't need the score much during the performance.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.Orchestras don't choose a conductor based on recordings.
Recordings are artificial products that say very little about what a conductor is like to work with.
There may be also some leading vocalists and
instrumentalists who want to turn to conducting
later in life.
I know one pianist turned conductor who put the
change down to fear of forgetting the music
onstage later on in life as more memory
"incidents" started to accumulate. Fear real or
imagined - it's still fear. Musicians can get very
anxious about going onstage and make career
decisions accordingly.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 10:46:48 AM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:onstage and make career decisions accordingly.
There may be also some leading vocalists and instrumentalists who want to turn to conducting later in life.
I know one pianist turned conductor who put the change down to fear of forgetting the music onstage later on in life as more memory "incidents" started to accumulate. Fear real or imagined - it's still fear. Musicians can get very anxious about going
However, in such a case the musician has to learn an entirely new repertoire when he or she is fifty years old and he (or she) will turn into one of those conductors whose face is buried in the score most of the time.
Orchestras don't like this. Good conductors don't need the score much during the performance.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 1:46:48 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
There may be also some leading vocalists and
instrumentalists who want to turn to conducting
later in life.
I know one pianist turned conductor who put theCertainly, however one should not ignore the
change down to fear of forgetting the music
onstage later on in life as more memory
"incidents" started to accumulate. Fear real or
imagined - it's still fear. Musicians can get very
anxious about going onstage and make career
decisions accordingly.
financial motives. Conductors can earn more
than soloists, except perhaps the top opera
singers.
dk
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 6:38:28 PM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 1:46:48 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
Certainly, however one should not ignore the
There may be also some leading vocalists and
instrumentalists who want to turn to conducting
later in life.
I know one pianist turned conductor who put the
change down to fear of forgetting the music
onstage later on in life as more memory
"incidents" started to accumulate. Fear real or
imagined - it's still fear. Musicians can get very
anxious about going onstage and make career
decisions accordingly.
financial motives. Conductors can earn more
than soloists, except perhaps the top opera
singers.
dk
More ignorant nonsense.
TOP conductors can earn more than soloists, but you don't become a top conductor overnight, and most never do.
If you're in front of an orchestra, if you're only there because you believe wagging a baton gets more money than playing the piano, the orchestra will not invite you back.
You can't fake it.
There are lots of reasons one can imagine leading a person to conduct: insufficient or declining skill as a soloist, wanting to boss people around, making more money, wanting to contribute in a certain way, who knows what else?
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:51:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
There are lots of reasons one can imagine leading a person to conduct: insufficient or declining skill as a soloist, wanting to boss people around, making more money, wanting to contribute in a certain way, who knows what else?I have a wild wild suggestion, Frank, that apparently never entered your mind: people do this because they want to make music.
And that's why protested before. This cynical way of suggesting people have bad motives is soo unpleasant.
People who are in it for the money go in finance rather than
classical music.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:51:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
There are lots of reasons one can imagine leading a person to conduct: insufficient or declining skill as a soloist, wanting to boss people around, making more money, wanting to contribute in a certain way, who knows what else?
I have a wild wild suggestion, Frank, that apparently never entered your mind: people do this because they want to make music.
And that's why protested before. This cynical way of suggesting people have bad motives is soo unpleasant.
People who are in it for the money go in finance rather than classical music.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:51:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
There are lots of reasons one can imagine leading a person to conduct: insufficient or declining skill as a soloist, wanting to boss people around, making more money, wanting to contribute in a certain way, who knows what else?I have a wild wild suggestion, Frank, that apparently never entered your mind: people do this because they want to make music.
And that's why protested before. This cynical way of suggesting people have bad motives is soo unpleasant.
People who are in it for the money go in finance rather than classical music.
On 1/9/2023 6:11 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:addition, the responsibility for performance levels is high.
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a shed load of money.
Tell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for starters.
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless. What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 10:23:59 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:addition, the responsibility for performance levels is high.
On 1/9/2023 6:11 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In
Tell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for starters.
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a shed load of money.
Why?
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
And ....
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
Obviously, because money is involved - other people's money mostly.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless. What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
No. But then I don't remember mentioning percentages at all, as if I was bothered.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 07:39:59 UTC+11, Herman wrote:the responsibility for performance levels is high.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:51:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
There are lots of reasons one can imagine leading a person to conduct: insufficient or declining skill as a soloist, wanting to boss people around, making more money, wanting to contribute in a certain way, who knows what else?I have a wild wild suggestion, Frank, that apparently never entered your mind: people do this because they want to make music.
And that's why protested before. This cynical way of suggesting people have bad motives is soo unpleasant.
People who are in it for the money go in finance rather than classical music.
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In addition,
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a shed load of money.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 1/9/2023 6:49 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:addition, the responsibility for performance levels is high.
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 10:23:59 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/9/2023 6:11 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In
Tell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for starters.
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a shed load of money.
Why?
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
And ....
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
Obviously, because money is involved - other people's money mostly.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless. What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
No. But then I don't remember mentioning percentages at all, as if I was bothered.
Ray Hall, Taree
Come on, Ray. You said "many do end up making a shed load of money."
What is the purpose of that statement if not suggest finance is an easy or easier road to wealth than some >other field?
Most would agree finance is more volatile than most fields, meaning that the risk of entering it is high. That <suggest a larger than average rate of return to entering the field, but a concomitant higher risk of failure. If >a career in finance isriskier than opening a restaurant, who can tell?
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 11:13:29 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:addition, the responsibility for performance levels is high.
On 1/9/2023 6:49 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 10:23:59 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/9/2023 6:11 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In
riskier than opening a restaurant, who can tell?Come on, Ray. You said "many do end up making a shed load of money."Why?Tell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for starters. >>>
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a shed load of money.
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
And ....
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
Obviously, because money is involved - other people's money mostly.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless. What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
No. But then I don't remember mentioning percentages at all, as if I was bothered.
Ray Hall, Taree
Many do. It isn't anything new. As if I really care about these people anyway.
What is the purpose of that statement if not suggest finance is an easy or easier road to wealth than some >other field?
I believe it can be a very easy way. And because finance was already mentioned. As you yourself have already said, many end up in jail. Good riddance to them. Sure they take risks, but nobody is forcing them.
Most would agree finance is more volatile than most fields, meaning that the risk of entering it is high. That <suggest a larger than average rate of return to entering the field, but a concomitant higher risk of failure. If >a career in finance is
As I have already said, I don't care one way or the other. But as finance was mentioned earlier by you and others I simply used the comparison.
Ray Hall, Ta
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings
from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.
Orchestras don't choose a conductor based on
recordings. Recordings are artificial products
that say very little about what a conductor is
like to work with.
On 1/9/2023 7:26 PM, raymond....mail.com wrote:addition, the responsibility for performance levels is high.
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In
riskier than opening a restaurant, who can tell?Come on, Ray. You said "many do end up making a shed load of money."Tell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for starters.
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a shed load of money.
Why?
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
And ....
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
Obviously, because money is involved - other people's money mostly.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless. What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
No. But then I don't remember mentioning percentages at all, as if I was bothered.
Ray Hall, Taree
Many do. It isn't anything new. As if I really care about these people anyway.
What is the purpose of that statement if not suggest finance is an easy or easier road to wealth than some >other field?
I believe it can be a very easy way. And because finance was already mentioned. As you yourself have already said, many end up in jail. Good riddance to them. Sure they take risks, but nobody is forcing them.
Most would agree finance is more volatile than most fields, meaning that the risk of entering it is high. That <suggest a larger than average rate of return to entering the field, but a concomitant higher risk of failure. If >a career in finance is
my head examined for even trying to communicate with you.As I have already said, I don't care one way or the other. But as finance was mentioned earlier by you and others I simply used the comparison.
Ray Hall, TaOK, Ray. I've re-read the thread, especially to make sure of my own "contribution," and see that you either fail to see my point or are just digging in your heels as a matter of principle or dislike. Whichever or whatever, never mind. I'm going to have
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:21:41 PM UTC-6, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
Tomomi Nishimoto is better than
all those listed above. And did you
notice you did not mention any
women?
I didn't really notice because I don'tHan-Na Chang:
know any women who would be
considered "leading candidates".
https://www.youtube.com/@HanNaChangMusic
and there are more.
On 1/9/2023 7:26 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 11:13:29 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/9/2023 6:49 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 10:23:59 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:Come on, Ray. You said "many do end up making a shed load of money."
On 1/9/2023 6:11 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People goTell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for
into conducting primarily because they have a desire to control
how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good
orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In addition, the
responsibility for performance levels is high.
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need
to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance
depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a
shed load of money.
starters.
Why?
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
And ....
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
Obviously, because money is involved - other people's money mostly.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless.
What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to
medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
No. But then I don't remember mentioning percentages at all, as if I
was bothered.
Ray Hall, Taree
Many do. It isn't anything new. As if I really care about these people
anyway.
What is the purpose of that statement if not suggest finance is an
easy or easier road to wealth than some >other field?
I believe it can be a very easy way. And because finance was already
mentioned. As you yourself have already said, many end up in jail.
Good riddance to them. Sure they take risks, but nobody is forcing them.
Most would agree finance is more volatile than most fields, meaning
that the risk of entering it is high. That <suggest a larger than
average rate of return to entering the field, but a concomitant
higher risk of failure. If >a career in finance is riskier than
opening a restaurant, who can tell?
As I have already said, I don't care one way or the other. But as
finance was mentioned earlier by you and others I simply used the
comparison.
Ray Hall, Ta
OK, Ray. I've re-read the thread, especially to make sure of my own "contribution," and see that you either fail to see my point or are just digging in your heels as a matter of principle or dislike. Whichever or whatever, never mind. I'm going to have my head examined for even trying
to communicate with you.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:54:02 AM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings
from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.
Orchestras don't choose a conductor based onHear, hear! Recordings also do not say much
recordings. Recordings are artificial products
that say very little about what a conductor is
like to work with.
about how musicians actually perform live on
a stage in front of a real audience.
dk
your relentless need to naysay "prevents you from understanding
simple English."
On 1/9/23 4:41 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/9/2023 7:26 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 11:13:29 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/9/2023 6:49 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 10:23:59 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>> On 1/9/2023 6:11 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:Come on, Ray. You said "many do end up making a shed load of money."
Bringing money into the equation sullies the argument. People go >>>>>> into conducting primarily because they have a desire to controlTell that to Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers for
how music is played. If you haven't the aptitude for it, any good >>>>>> orchestra will sniff it out after 10 minutes. In addition, the
responsibility for performance levels is high.
I would suggest going into finance has no similarity to the need >>>>>> to control music performance. Whether one becomes good at finance >>>>>> depends on a whole range of factors, but many do end up making a >>>>>> shed load of money.
starters.
Why?
Said as Goldman Sachs is about to layoff over 3000 people.
And ....
More finance people seem to end up in jail than conductors.
Obviously, because money is involved - other people's money mostly.
The fact that "a lot" of people do well in finance is meaningless. >>>>> What percentage of those going into finance succeed compared to
medicine, law, whatever? I don't know. Do you?
No. But then I don't remember mentioning percentages at all, as if I >>>> was bothered.
Ray Hall, Taree
Many do. It isn't anything new. As if I really care about these people
anyway.
What is the purpose of that statement if not suggest finance is an
easy or easier road to wealth than some >other field?
I believe it can be a very easy way. And because finance was already
mentioned. As you yourself have already said, many end up in jail.
Good riddance to them. Sure they take risks, but nobody is forcing them. >>
Most would agree finance is more volatile than most fields, meaning
that the risk of entering it is high. That <suggest a larger than
average rate of return to entering the field, but a concomitant
higher risk of failure. If >a career in finance is riskier than
opening a restaurant, who can tell?
As I have already said, I don't care one way or the other. But as
finance was mentioned earlier by you and others I simply used the
comparison.
Ray Hall, Ta
OK, Ray. I've re-read the thread, especially to make sure of my own "contribution," and see that you either fail to see my point or are just digging in your heels as a matter of principle or dislike. Whichever or whatever, never mind. I'm going to have my head examined for even trying
to communicate with you.
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
and if one doesn't do as Herman says, one is either a pedo, an ignorant or whatever else his deluded mind comes up with ;D
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.Orchestras don't choose a conductor based on recordings.
Recordings are artificial products that say very little about what a conductor is like to work with.
Herman schrieb am Montag, 9. Januar 2023 um 09:54:02 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
You do understand that art generally is ARTifical? To characterize recordings as artifical to undermine mswd's opinion doesn't make any sense...That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.Orchestras don't choose a conductor based on recordings.
Recordings are artificial products that say very little about what a conductor is like to work with.
CDs don't grow on trees, yes. Violins and Mozart's music don't either.
To understand more about aesthetics and the relationship between art and nature I recommend Immanuel Kant's critique of judgement.
I'm looking forward to the theatre production of RMCR with a cast that it would take any author 100 years to dream up.
Like Springtime For Hitler it should run and run......
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
Ray Hall, Taree
Also I did not aim "to undermine" what mswd said. I just added a
thought.
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Januar 2023 um 12:12:12 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Montag, 9. Januar 2023 um 09:54:02 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
You do understand that art generally is ARTifical? To characterize recordings as artifical to undermine mswd's opinion doesn't make any sense...That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.Orchestras don't choose a conductor based on recordings.
Recordings are artificial products that say very little about what a conductor is like to work with.
CDs don't grow on trees, yes. Violins and Mozart's music don't either.
To understand more about aesthetics and the relationship between art and nature I recommend Immanuel Kant's critique of judgement.It's interesting that for Kant, moral judgements and "judgements of the beautiful" (a specific kind of aesthetic judgement) seem to share a common denominator.
On 1/9/23 8:57 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, it would appear that you do not know the true definition of envy.
It consists only secondarily in the desire for the goods or riches of another. Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 3:25:33 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Januar 2023 um 12:12:12 UTC+1:
Herman schrieb am Montag, 9. Januar 2023 um 09:54:02 UTC+1:
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:05:36 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
You do understand that art generally is ARTifical? To characterize recordings as artifical to undermine mswd's opinion doesn't make any sense...That said, I've really not heard a lot of recordings from any of them, so they didn't come to mind.Orchestras don't choose a conductor based on recordings.
Recordings are artificial products that say very little about what a conductor is like to work with.
CDs don't grow on trees, yes. Violins and Mozart's music don't either.
- Morality, like art, consists in drawing a line somewhere.To understand more about aesthetics and the relationship between art and nature I recommend Immanuel Kant's critique of judgement.It's interesting that for Kant, moral judgements and "judgements of the beautiful" (a specific kind of aesthetic judgement) seem to share a common denominator.
Chesterton
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe fora major position:
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.mind him here at all.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn't
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
Some "women" these days have dicks, how can this be?
Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Januar 2023 um 21:19:00 UTC+1:
Some "women" these days have dicks, how can this be?Like Eddie Izzard or what his name is... this weird dude from england... this crazy fucking guy.
- Morality, like art, consists in drawing a line somewhere.
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;D
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;DStop sooner.
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;D
mswd...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Januar 2023 um 21:54:09 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:Sorry if you felt offended, I was just having fun, excuse me.
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;DStop sooner.
If you don't mind me asking, what's your problem with my statement?
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 20:24:15 UTC, Marc S wrote:
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;DI see Mr S has been let out for the day with an electronic tag. Unwise, but liberal minds still show generosity towards bigots and fools.
On 1/9/23 8:57 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, it would appear that you do not know the true definition of envy.
It consists only secondarily in the desire for the goods or riches of another. Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.
mswd...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Januar 2023 um 21:54:09 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:Sorry if you felt offended, I was just having fun, excuse me.
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;DStop sooner.
If you don't mind me asking, what's your problem with my statement?
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 03:58:10 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:exist.
On 1/9/23 8:57 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:Ray, it would appear that you do not know the true definition of envy.
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
Ray Hall, Taree
It consists only secondarily in the desire for the goods or riches of
another. Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.
So right wing and solely materialistic in thought. What else can one expect? No, the real sadness lies in knowing there are far better people who by virtue of mere circumstance have literally nothing, and people in this world who pretend they don't
Ray Hall, Taree
On 1/10/2023 5:35 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
At the core of crackpot leftist economics is the wrong-headed idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. >It is not the case that the rich got that way at the expense of the poor.
I wasn't Income, wealth and jobs are created by intelligence, creativity and risk-taking. Bill Gates and Elon >Musk did not pick any pockets to get rich.
In a similar vein, among many anti-immigration types (legal or illegal) there is the equally wrong-headed >idea that an immigrant who gets a job in the U.S. is taking that job away from a U.S. citizen.
There is plenty of research that shows that immigration is conducive to economic growth.
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 03:58:10 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:exist.
On 1/9/23 8:57 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:Ray, it would appear that you do not know the true definition of envy.
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
Ray Hall, Taree
It consists only secondarily in the desire for the goods or riches of
another. Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.
So right wing and solely materialistic in thought. What else can one expect? No, the real sadness lies in knowing there are far better people who by virtue of mere circumstance have literally nothing, and people in this world who pretend they don't
Ray Hall, Taree
On 1/10/23 2:35 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:exist.
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 03:58:10 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 1/9/23 8:57 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:Ray, it would appear that you do not know the true definition of envy.
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the >>>> principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
Ray Hall, Taree
It consists only secondarily in the desire for the goods or riches of
another. Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.
So right wing and solely materialistic in thought. What else can one expect? No, the real sadness lies in knowing there are far better people who by virtue of mere circumstance have literally nothing, and people in this world who pretend they don't
Ray Hall, Taree
Ray, how you got that out of what I said i don't pretend to know. But
you are utterly wrong if you think that's how I look at the world. There are, of course, destitute people in the world, and we have a duty to
have compassion for them and to assist as we can in helping them escape
that desperate state. How that ought to happen is a matter of prudential decision. And there, as you might expect, I don't think that compulsory redistribution of material goods is likely to be effective--something
the history of the 20th century should make clear.
I have done with your anger.
Bob Harper
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 12:14:06 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/10/2023 5:35 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
At the core of crackpot leftist economics is the wrong-headed idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. >It is not the case that the rich got that way at the expense of the poor.
I wasn't aware anyone was suggesting that.
I wasn't Income, wealth and jobs are created by intelligence, creativity and risk-taking. Bill Gates and Elon >Musk did not pick any pockets to get rich.
Did anyone say he did? As for their intelligence and creativity, I have sincere doubts. Circumstances, being in the right place at the right time, are far more likely.
In a similar vein, among many anti-immigration types (legal or illegal) there is the equally wrong-headed >idea that an immigrant who gets a job in the U.S. is taking that job away from a U.S. citizen.
I waan't aware anyone was suggesting that either.
There is plenty of research that shows that immigration is conducive to economic growth.
If it wasn't for the slave wages often involved, I'd definitely agree with your statement.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 1/10/2023 8:24 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:are occupied with people with few skills, like the young. By working and accumulating skills, they make more money. You complain of slave wages. There would be no point to that unless you think minimum laws should prevent it. You apparently don't think
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 12:14:06 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 1/10/2023 5:35 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
At the core of crackpot leftist economics is the wrong-headed idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. >It is not the case that the rich got that way at the expense of the poor.
I wasn't aware anyone was suggesting that.
I wasn't Income, wealth and jobs are created by intelligence, creativity and risk-taking. Bill Gates and Elon >Musk did not pick any pockets to get rich.
Did anyone say he did? As for their intelligence and creativity, I have sincere doubts. Circumstances, being in the right place at the right time, are far more likely.
In a similar vein, among many anti-immigration types (legal or illegal) there is the equally wrong-headed >idea that an immigrant who gets a job in the U.S. is taking that job away from a U.S. citizen.
I waan't aware anyone was suggesting that either.
There is plenty of research that shows that immigration is conducive to economic growth.
If it wasn't for the slave wages often involved, I'd definitely agree with your statement.
Whatever "slave wages" is supposed to mean, there is overwhelming evidence of upward mobility. The people in the lowest quintile (or whatever) of income in survey data are not the same people in the next survey, 5 or 10 years later. The lowest strata
Ray Hall, Taree
I find it hard to believe you are not aware of the ideas you say you were not aware of.
On 1/10/2023 9:58 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:posts correctly.
If you were to read correctly, I said I wasn't aware of anyone here saying anything about the ideas you were suggesting. Primarily I entererd this thread to discuss dirigentsia, not to discuss ideas that pop out of your noggin without reading my
Actually, great reader, I didn't say, nor imply, that you said anyone here had expressed these ideas.
As for slave wages, you well know what I mean. I don't mean award wages either. And if you can't work >that out, too bad. Greed is not good, as most people know and accept.Everyone has self-interest. It's human nature. When that self-interest becomes so severe as to become "greed" is anyone's opinion.
As for the slant you make of employers providing work for immigrants - don't make me laugh !! More to the point is that employers are cashing in on labour that THEY need.
It makes no sense to say employers "need" workers any more than workers "need" jobs.
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 13:16:26 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:are occupied with people with few skills, like the young. By working and accumulating skills, they make more money. You complain of slave wages. There would be no point to that unless you think minimum laws should prevent it. You apparently don't think
On 1/10/2023 8:24 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 12:14:06 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:Whatever "slave wages" is supposed to mean, there is overwhelming evidence of upward mobility. The people in the lowest quintile (or whatever) of income in survey data are not the same people in the next survey, 5 or 10 years later. The lowest strata
On 1/10/2023 5:35 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
At the core of crackpot leftist economics is the wrong-headed idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. >It is not the case that the rich got that way at the expense of the poor.
I wasn't aware anyone was suggesting that.
I wasn't Income, wealth and jobs are created by intelligence, creativity and risk-taking. Bill Gates and Elon >Musk did not pick any pockets to get rich.
Did anyone say he did? As for their intelligence and creativity, I have sincere doubts. Circumstances, being in the right place at the right time, are far more likely.
In a similar vein, among many anti-immigration types (legal or illegal) there is the equally wrong-headed >idea that an immigrant who gets a job in the U.S. is taking that job away from a U.S. citizen.
I waan't aware anyone was suggesting that either.
There is plenty of research that shows that immigration is conducive to economic growth.
If it wasn't for the slave wages often involved, I'd definitely agree with your statement.
correctly.
Ray Hall, Taree
I find it hard to believe you are not aware of the ideas you say you were not aware of.
If you were to read correctly, I said I wasn't aware of anyone here saying anything about the ideas you were suggesting. Primarily I entererd this thread to discuss dirigentsia, not to discuss ideas that pop out of your noggin without reading my posts
As for slave wages, you well know what I mean. I don't mean award wages either. And if you can't work >that out, too bad. Greed is not good, as most people know and accept.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 3:10:20 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
mswd...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Januar 2023 um 21:54:09 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:Sorry if you felt offended, I was just having fun, excuse me.
And then Eddie Izzard will want to go in women's dressing rooms in swimming pools, and women's toilets etc etc... and the left - idiots like Andy - are like "yay, rainbow" ;DStop sooner.
If you don't mind me asking, what's your problem with my statement?Enough with the personal attacks.
Even Herman can be a woman today ;D
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 03:58:10 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:exist.
On 1/9/23 8:57 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 14:06:18 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
Frank, Ray is being typically disingenuous. It often seems that the
principal driver of his views is envy. I hope I'm wrong.
Bob Harper
Your hopes are realised. Envious of what? Certainly not the people in the finance industry!! Even their money is tainted.
For certain conductors, and physicists, and most professionals who are of use to this world and to other people, yes.
Once again Bob, as ever, ad infinitum, you continually dance to the strings of your true mates.
So right wing and solely materialistic in thought. What else can one expect? No, the real sadness lies in knowing there are far better people who by virtue of mere circumstance have literally nothing, and people in this world who pretend they don'tRay Hall, TareeRay, it would appear that you do not know the true definition of envy.
It consists only secondarily in the desire for the goods or riches of another. Rather, the real fault is sadness over the good fortune of another.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 8:12:51 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
Even Herman can be a woman today ;DSimple yes / no question.
Are you a parent; do you have any children?
Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2023 um 09:58:39 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 8:12:51 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
Simple answer: This does not concern you, and it doesn't matter.Even Herman can be a woman today ;DSimple yes / no question.
Are you a parent; do you have any children?
I understand that this is all off topic etc, but sorry, no - kids are being mutiliated because of gender-ideology, and idiots like andy obsess about trump and the climate, while obviously having no problem with little kids being mutiliated in the nameof the rainbow-ideology, and if you question said ideology, you will be called a bigot or a fascist ;D the MO of the left.
Ray you simple minded fool... all you do is reiterating the simple anti-capitalist views of the left, without understanding anything.
And I actually think Bob's characterisation of you as being envious is not too far fetched.
What leftists don't understand is, that capitalism brought us riches and progress. There was never a time > in this world where people had it this good (wrt to food, medical care etc - all part of capitalism).
Now, this does not mean that capitalism is perfect ofc, and the world is still unjust, but it's the system
which cares more about "individuality" than any other system.
Israel understood this, Palestinians don't. Islamic nations hate capitalism, just as the left does - deeming > capitalism to be responsible for every bad shit that happens, while not seeing the good capitalism has > brought us. All the asiannations which followed the western model (Singapur, Japan, Korea) and became > capitalist coutnries with a democratic foundation are first world countries now - not so much the islamic > countries who deem the west responsible for their misfortune.
Ray's envy is similar to the envy of the Palestinians wrt to Israel.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:51:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
There are lots of reasons one can imagine leading a person to conduct: insufficient or declining skill as a soloist, wanting to boss people around, making more money, wanting to contribute in a certain way, who knows what else?I have a wild wild suggestion, Frank, that apparently never entered your mind: people do this because they want to make music.
And that's why protested before. This cynical way of suggesting people have bad motives is soo unpleasant.
People who are in it for the money go in finance rather than classical music.
I know that you have a daughter, and honestly, you should feel fucking creeped out that some 50yo men identifying as a woman would be allowed in the same public bathroom or dressing room of swimming pools with her... it's very simple, really.
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:10:37 AM UTC-6, Marc S wrote:
No, it's only simple in your pathetic cranium.
The other thing is he keeps intruding on other posters' privacy,
but immediately shuts down when asked whether he's talking about
this as a father or rather as someone who can't see a teenage woman
without the above.
of the rainbow-ideology, and if you question said ideology, you will be called a bigot or a fascist ;D the MO of the left.I understand that this is all off topic etc, but sorry, no - kids are being mutiliated because of gender-ideology, and idiots like andy obsess about trump and the climate, while obviously having no problem with little kids being mutiliated in the name
What the fuck is wrong with your brain? Of course I despise Trump as an unrepentant liar, cheat and incompetent and of course I'm deeply concerned about the climate like any scientist or half intelligent human is.consciousness dreams up, I don't expect any response resembling reality, and nor do I care apart from correcting the most idiotic of your ravings.
I have nothing whatsoever to do with "rainbow ideology" and I don't even know what it is, and as for "mutilated kids" I have absolutely no idea what part of your fucked up brain that came from. Since your ravings take you wherever your stream of
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023, Andy Evans wrote:name of the rainbow-ideology, and if you question said ideology, you will be called a bigot or a fascist ;D the MO of the left.
I understand that this is all off topic etc, but sorry, no - kids are being mutiliated because of gender-ideology, and idiots like andy obsess about trump and the climate, while obviously having no problem with little kids being mutiliated in the
consciousness dreams up, I don't expect any response resembling reality, and nor do I care apart from correcting the most idiotic of your ravings.
What the fuck is wrong with your brain? Of course I despise Trump as an unrepentant liar, cheat and incompetent and of course I'm deeply concerned about the climate like any scientist or half intelligent human is.
I have nothing whatsoever to do with "rainbow ideology" and I don't even know what it is, and as for "mutilated kids" I have absolutely no idea what part of your fucked up brain that came from. Since your ravings take you wherever your stream of
There is no point at all in even reading his messages. Zero. Or minus 10.
As for rainbow ideology, that derives from a notorious motley pack of
witch hunters - you know, Judy, Scarecrow (pseudonym), a man with
creaky joints, and a bestial coward.
On 1/12/2023 3:56 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023, Andy Evans wrote:
I understand that this is all off topic etc, but sorry, no - kids are >>>> being mutiliated because of gender-ideology, and idiots like andy obsess >>>> about trump and the climate, while obviously having no problem with
little kids being mutiliated in the name of the rainbow-ideology, and if >>>> you question said ideology, you will be called a bigot or a fascist ;D >>>> the MO of the left.
What the fuck is wrong with your brain? Of course I despise Trump as an >>> unrepentant liar, cheat and incompetent and of course I'm deeply concerned >>> about the climate like any scientist or half intelligent human is.
I have nothing whatsoever to do with "rainbow ideology" and I don't even >>> know what it is, and as for "mutilated kids" I have absolutely no idea
what part of your fucked up brain that came from. Since your ravings take >>> you wherever your stream of consciousness dreams up, I don't expect any >>> response resembling reality, and nor do I care apart from correcting the >>> most idiotic of your ravings.
There is no point at all in even reading his messages. Zero. Or minus 10.
As for rainbow ideology, that derives from a notorious motley pack of
witch hunters - you know, Judy, Scarecrow (pseudonym), a man with
creaky joints, and a bestial coward.
I thought rainbow simply referred to multi-racial like the colors of the rainbow. Didn't know about any relationship to The Wizard of Oz.
Guys... I was being funny when I said "rainbow ideology"... you idiots
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 8:09:51 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
Guys... I was being funny when I said "rainbow ideology"... you idiots
You have the right to fool yourself as much as you like.
Whatever you are, it is most certainly never funny.
dk
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 5:19:10 AM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
May I remind participants in this discussion that MD in this context stands for Musical Director and not Doctor of Medicine?
And that 'candates' need to be able to date profusively?
May I remind participants in this discussion that MD in this context stands for Musical Director and not Doctor of Medicine?
Staatskapelle Berlin, NY Phil and the CSO- all are looking for new leaders. Now there is nothing stopping orchestras from bring onboard leaders who are overcommitted (Makela), but there are some names out there who are either underemployed or ripe fora major position:
Dudamel - mentioned in the NY Times as the leading choice for New York, this seems like a great match- a conductor who is big on personality, a "name". He's not a favorite of mine for the central rep.mind him here at all.
Thielemann - where is the best place for Christian's sonic sludge? Berlin, of course.
Honeck - you'd think he's going somewhere bigger, but he hasn't built a fan following here in Chicago the way Zweden did. The one person I know in the orchestra doesn't care for him.
Zweden - he still seems underemployed to me, and if he ends up in Chicago that won't surprise me at all. To me he's pretty hit-and-miss, but in pieces where he can be direct and less about phrasing and rubato, the results can be very strong. I wouldn't
Andreas Orozco-Estrada - he seems underemployed at the momen. I've liked him in nearly everything I've heard him do.
Vlad Jorowski - not sure if he's a fit for any of these openings, but he seems underutilized at the moment
Who else deserves consideration?
May I remind participants in this discussion that MD in this context stands for Musical Director and not Doctor of Medicine?
And that 'candates' need to be able to date profusively?Should it matter at all, that was an error of finger execution not grammar. Not that there is any difference in the final accounting.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 6:11:49 AM UTC+1, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
May I remind participants in this discussion that MD in this context stands for Musical Director and not Doctor of Medicine?
It was said in a spirit of good fun.And that 'candates' need to be able to date profusively?Should it matter at all, that was an error of finger execution not grammar. Not that there is any difference in the final accounting.
It was said in a spirit of good fun.
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