• Brahms 1 (ii)

    From Roland van Gaalen@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 23 07:28:44 2022
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

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  • From Graham@21:1/5 to Andy Evans on Fri Dec 23 09:27:14 2022
    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.

    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to
    understand why Britten despised it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Andy Evans@21:1/5 to Roland van Gaalen on Fri Dec 23 08:22:25 2022
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland van Gaalen@21:1/5 to Graham on Fri Dec 23 08:58:50 2022
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to
    understand why Britten despised it.

    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born" and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are, Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me.

    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland

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  • From mswdesign@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Roland van Gaalen on Fri Dec 23 15:41:12 2022
    On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 10:58:53 AM UTC-6, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to understand why Britten despised it.
    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born" and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are, Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me.

    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland

    Hey, Roland, good to see you. Times change- RMCR changes, musical tastes change. No big deal. I still love Brahms 1. What is interesting to me is I like Mozart far more than I used to.

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  • From Andrew Clarke@21:1/5 to Roland van Gaalen on Sat Dec 24 05:50:08 2022
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 3:58:53 AM UTC+11, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to understand why Britten despised it.
    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born" and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are, Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me.

    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland

    They've been dead a while ... Have you heard the Mackerras cycle with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, or Robin Ticciati with the same band, or, more controversially perhaps, Adam Fischer with the Danish Chamber orchestra?

    I offer as a hypothesis that the solemnity of Brahms is directly proportional to the size of the string section in the orchestra that's playing his music..

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerard@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 24 16:05:16 2022
    Op 2022-12-24 om 15:15 schreef Herman:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:50:11 PM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 3:58:53 AM UTC+11, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote: >>>>>> Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to
    understand why Britten despised it.
    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born" and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are, Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me.

    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland
    They've been dead a while ... Have you heard the Mackerras cycle with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, or Robin Ticciati with the same band, or, more controversially perhaps, Adam Fischer with the Danish Chamber orchestra?

    I offer as a hypothesis that the solemnity of Brahms is directly proportional to the size of the string section in the orchestra that's playing his music..

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

    Old-style conductors used to perform Brahms as if this music was al mirthless exercizes in thematic variation etc. (Spot the theme!) Only recently conductors bring out the colors and timbre combinations in Brahms's orchestra music.

    Nevertheless I just enjoyed listening to the recording by van Beinum.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Herman@21:1/5 to andrewc...@gmail.com on Sat Dec 24 06:15:50 2022
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:50:11 PM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 3:58:53 AM UTC+11, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to understand why Britten despised it.
    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born" and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are, Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me.

    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland
    They've been dead a while ... Have you heard the Mackerras cycle with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, or Robin Ticciati with the same band, or, more controversially perhaps, Adam Fischer with the Danish Chamber orchestra?

    I offer as a hypothesis that the solemnity of Brahms is directly proportional to the size of the string section in the orchestra that's playing his music..

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

    Old-style conductors used to perform Brahms as if this music was al mirthless exercizes in thematic variation etc. (Spot the theme!) Only recently conductors bring out the colors and timbre combinations in Brahms's orchestra music.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Harper@21:1/5 to Gerard on Sat Dec 24 10:10:48 2022
    On 12/24/22 7:05 AM, Gerard wrote:
    Op 2022-12-24 om 15:15 schreef Herman:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:50:11 PM UTC+1,
    andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 3:58:53 AM UTC+11, Roland van
    Gaalen wrote:
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote: >>>>>>> Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what,
    and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for
    me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much
    to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or
    middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to
    understand why Britten despised it.
    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a
    venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born"
    and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a
    contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year
    old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are,
    Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point
    (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me.

    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland
    They've been dead a while ... Have you heard the Mackerras cycle with
    the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, or Robin Ticciati with the same band,
    or, more controversially perhaps, Adam Fischer with the Danish
    Chamber orchestra?

    I offer as a hypothesis that the solemnity of Brahms is directly
    proportional to the size of the string section in the orchestra
    that's playing his music..

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

    Old-style conductors used to perform Brahms as if this music was al
    mirthless exercizes in thematic variation etc. (Spot the theme!) Only
    recently conductors bring out the colors and timbre combinations in
    Brahms's orchestra music.

    Nevertheless I just enjoyed listening to the recording by van Beinum.

    That is an excellent Brahms 1. IIRC, it was while rehearsing the work
    that he suffered his final, fatal heart attack.

    Bob Harper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Bob Harper on Sat Dec 24 10:37:56 2022
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 6:10:53 PM UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
    On 12/24/22 7:05 AM, Gerard wrote:
    Op 2022-12-24 om 15:15 schreef Herman:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:50:11 PM UTC+1,
    andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 3:58:53 AM UTC+11, Roland van
    Gaalen wrote:
    Graham wrote:

    On 2022-12-23 9:22 a.m., Andy Evans wrote:
    On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:28:46 UTC, Roland van Gaalen wrote: >>>>>>> Ten years ago I still liked such music.
    Now I find it too obvious, in a way, but I don't know of what, >>>>>>> and much too sweet, especially the end. Kitsch.
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    It's sailing a little close to the pompous, which never works for >>>>>> me. I like the 2nd best, and the 3rd is OK. Don't listen too much >>>>>> to Brahms these days. I prefer something cooler like Bach or
    middle/late Stravinsky.
    I used to listen to Brahms' music a lot but now I'm beginning to
    understand why Britten despised it.
    If you don't mind an anachronism, leave the frame of "Brahms was a
    venerable Great Composer who lived a long time before I was born"
    and Imagine attending the world premiere of this piece as a
    contemporary.

    You would have seen Brahms himself, not as a god, but as a 43-year
    old man in 1876.

    Wouldn't you have thought something like "Who do you think you are, >>>> Doctor Johannes Brahms?"

    I think I would.

    I must have at least ten recordings of Brahms 1, but at this point
    (I'm 64 now) the whole symphony sounds pompous and pretentious to me. >>>>
    No Mengelberg or Furtwängler treatment can save it for me.
    --
    Roland
    They've been dead a while ... Have you heard the Mackerras cycle with >>> the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, or Robin Ticciati with the same band, >>> or, more controversially perhaps, Adam Fischer with the Danish
    Chamber orchestra?

    I offer as a hypothesis that the solemnity of Brahms is directly
    proportional to the size of the string section in the orchestra
    that's playing his music..

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

    Old-style conductors used to perform Brahms as if this music was al
    mirthless exercizes in thematic variation etc. (Spot the theme!) Only
    recently conductors bring out the colors and timbre combinations in
    Brahms's orchestra music.

    Nevertheless I just enjoyed listening to the recording by van Beinum.

    That is an excellent Brahms 1. IIRC, it was while rehearsing the work
    that he suffered his final, fatal heart attack.

    Bob Harper

    Yes well you can tell a good performance of Brahms 1 by the number of people who have heart attacks because of that pause in the first movement just before the allegro. Killer pause.

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