https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
dk
On Sunday, 18 December 2022 at 06:52:18 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
I didn't look at that video but while I was looking on YT I
saw another video called The Great Climate Con, based
on a book by Alex Epstein called "The Moral Case for
Fossil Fuels"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWq7-eP5sE
If you in the mood for completely delusional garbage
spoken in a serious and weighty tone and with a straight
face, check it out.
There may well be idiots all over the world but the ones in
the USA have money (mainly from fossil fuels and capitalist
consumption) and also media influence. I'm constantly surprised
at how many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by this
delusional crap, but unfortunately it just shows me more and more
in my advancing years just what stupid bastards a lot of humans are.
On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:27:14 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
On Sunday, 18 December 2022 at 06:52:18 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
I didn't look at that video but while I was looking on YT I
saw another video called The Great Climate Con, based
on a book by Alex Epstein called "The Moral Case for
Fossil Fuels"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWq7-eP5sE
Thanks!
If you in the mood for completely delusional garbage
spoken in a serious and weighty tone and with a straight
face, check it out.
I am not sure if I am in the mood for it right now, will
check it out later. Tonight is Hanukkah and I have
been conscripted to kicthen duty.
There may well be idiots all over the world but the ones in
the USA have money (mainly from fossil fuels and capitalist
consumption) and also media influence. I'm constantly surprised
at how many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by this
delusional crap, but unfortunately it just shows me more and more
in my advancing years just what stupid bastards a lot of humans are.
IMHO the main difference between the US and the rest of the world
in this respect is that rich people here see themselves as having a
right and a public duty to lecture everyone else, and to "serve the
people". Remember that billionaire named John F. Kennedy who
was elected POTUS in an election widely believed to have been
bought by his dad?
One thing I learned during my life and my career is that success
does not make people smarter, it only makes them more arrogant.
Just look at Elon! ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 22:52:15 -0800, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
The origins of "woke" is Jews attacking people
for being anti-semitic. Any videos about that?
The origins of "woke" is Jews attacking people for being
anti-semitic. Any videos about that?
On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 11:35:46 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:27:14 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
On Sunday, 18 December 2022 at 06:52:18 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
I didn't look at that video but while I was looking on YT I
saw another video called The Great Climate Con, based
on a book by Alex Epstein called "The Moral Case for
Fossil Fuels"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWq7-eP5sE
Thanks!
If you in the mood for completely delusional garbage
spoken in a serious and weighty tone and with a straight
face, check it out.
I am not sure if I am in the mood for it right now, will
check it out later. Tonight is Hanukkah and I have
been conscripted to kicthen duty.
There may well be idiots all over the world but the ones in
the USA have money (mainly from fossil fuels and capitalist
consumption) and also media influence. I'm constantly surprised
at how many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by this
delusional crap, but unfortunately it just shows me more and more
in my advancing years just what stupid bastards a lot of humans are.
IMHO the main difference between the US and the rest of the world
in this respect is that rich people here see themselves as having a
right and a public duty to lecture everyone else, and to "serve the people". Remember that billionaire named John F. Kennedy who
was elected POTUS in an election widely believed to have been
bought by his dad?
One thing I learned during my life and my career is that successBTW I posted the link to Rod Liddle's talk not so much for its
does not make people smarter, it only makes them more arrogant.
Just look at Elon! ;-)
content, but because I found his presentation and his manner
of speech both hilarious and disturbing. He does not seem to
have his marbles well arranged, he only has a different set of
marbles scrambled in a different pattern.
dk
On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 3:04:20 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 4:46:21 PM UTC-8, Pluted Pup wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 22:52:15 -0800, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
The origins of "woke" is Jews attacking people
for being anti-semitic. Any videos about that?
You will have to find them yourself.
He'll have a job on!
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 00:46:21 UTC, Pluted Pup wrote:
The origins of "woke" is Jews attacking people for
being anti-semitic. Any videos about that?
That's not what Wiki says - it says the origins are
African American and refer to awareness of racism.
It was popularised as a leftist movement against the
far right in the USA, Trump etc. Doesn't seem to have
anything to do with Israel, which isn't leftist or pro-African
Americans.
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 00:46:21 UTC, Pluted Pup wrote:
The origins of "woke" is Jews attacking people
for being anti-semitic. Any videos about that?
That's not what Wiki says - it says the origins are
African American and refer to awareness of racism.
It was popularised as a leftist movement against the
far right in the USA, Trump etc. Doesn't seem to have
anything to do with Israel, which isn't leftist or pro-
African Americans.
On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 4:28:58 AM UTC-8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 3:04:20 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 4:46:21 PM UTC-8, Pluted Pup wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 22:52:15 -0800, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjXW-aAmB8
Provided as a public service.
Not taking any position and
not soliciting debate.
The origins of "woke" is Jews attacking people
for being anti-semitic. Any videos about that?
You will have to find them yourself.
He'll have a job on!
He might get help from others. I don't
doubt there are plenty of people who
share his views. They might even
make a video or two to document
their "facts".
dk
I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the actions,
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish life
anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the definition of
Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not altogether).
Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have beenposted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
Nothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish life inthe Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition of antisemitism
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the definition ofanti-Zionism.
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not altogether).Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:13:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On 12/19/2022 6:06 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish life
of anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the definition
Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not altogether).
been posted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.
Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have
to talk about.People who hate Jews and/or hate Israel constantly accuse Israel of this or that. Most of the accusations are debunked. If you are including Israel "occupying" the land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians as "suppression" there is nothing for us
Ray Hall, Taree
You debunk them. Of course. Most people do not.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 12/19/2022 6:06 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish life
of anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the definition
Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not altogether).
been posted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have
to talk about.Ray Hall, TareePeople who hate Jews and/or hate Israel constantly accuse Israel of this or that. Most of the accusations are debunked. If you are including Israel "occupying" the land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians as "suppression" there is nothing for us
On 12/19/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:13:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/19/2022 6:06 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>> On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
life in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish
definition of anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the
Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not altogether).
been posted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.
Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have
us to talk about.People who hate Jews and/or hate Israel constantly accuse Israel of this or that. Most of the accusations are debunked. If you are including Israel "occupying" the land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians as "suppression" there is nothing for
Ray Hall, Taree
You debunk them. Of course. Most people do not.
Ray Hall, TareeIt's in the news. May times. The NYT, for instance, has retracted many such stories. Do you think Israel has a right to exist? And if so, does it have a right to defend itself against terrorism?
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:37:54 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On 12/19/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:13:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/19/2022 6:06 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
life in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish
definition of anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the
Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not altogether).
been posted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.
Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have
us to talk about.People who hate Jews and/or hate Israel constantly accuse Israel of this or that. Most of the accusations are debunked. If you are including Israel "occupying" the land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians as "suppression" there is nothing for
Ray Hall, Taree
It's in the news. May times. The NYT, for instance, has retracted many such stories. Do you think Israel has a right to exist? And if so, does it have a right to defend itself against terrorism?
You debunk them. Of course. Most people do not.
Ray Hall, Taree
All you are doing is framing the questions, and then refusing to talk.
Wo do you think you are?
Israel, and its people, have as much right to exist as other countries and their people.
Unfortunately, Israel is and has been run by thugs at the very top. It happens, same as in some other countries.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 12/19/2022 7:33 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:37:54 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/19/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:13:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>> On 12/19/2022 6:06 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
life in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish
definition of anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the
altogether). Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not
been posted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.
Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have
us to talk about.People who hate Jews and/or hate Israel constantly accuse Israel of this or that. Most of the accusations are debunked. If you are including Israel "occupying" the land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians as "suppression" there is nothing for
Ray Hall, Taree
It's in the news. May times. The NYT, for instance, has retracted many such stories. Do you think Israel has a right to exist? And if so, does it have a right to defend itself against terrorism?
You debunk them. Of course. Most people do not.
Ray Hall, Taree
All you are doing is framing the questions, and then refusing to talk.i never refuse to talk. I can't imagine where that comes from.
Wo do you think you are?Someone who was interest in your views on the subject. Asking doesn't imply I think I am anyone other than who I am.
Israel, and its people, have as much right to exist as other countries and their people.I'm glad you think so. Not everyone does.
Unfortunately, Israel is and has been run by thugs at the very top. It happens, same as in some other countries.
Do you mean every Israeli government since 1948? Or just all the right wing governments? Or just under Netanyahu's governments? Please clarify.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 13:39:49 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:actions, ideologies and policies of any state, as it would be towards Russia, the USA, Iran or any other country. As long as you keep these two >things separate there should not be a problem.
On 12/19/2022 7:33 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:37:54 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/19/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 10:13:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>> On 12/19/2022 6:06 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 05:07:33 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>> On 12/19/2022 12:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 16:34:49 UTC, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would call the pup an out and out antisemite, but although everyone agrees there is such a thing as antisemitism, it seems that no individual is one and therefore can't be accused of being one.
Well, you know a lot more about Jewishness than I do but I thought antisemitism was quite simple - prejudice against Jews as a people. It excludes criticism of the State of Israel which is just >straightforward political opinion relating to the
life in the Holy Land is part and parcel of traditional Judaism. So if one says he has nothing against Jews unless the aspire to Zion, that can be considered antisemitic and many institutions and organizations have, in fact, adopted a definition ofNothing relating to Jewish or Jewishness is simple. Of course the theoretical distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is conceptually simple at first blush. But then you consider that the "claim" and yearning for restoration of Jewish
definition of anti-Zionism.
I am not talking about criticism of various policies of the State of Israel. As in any democracy, Israelis disagree among themselves. They do not, with rare exceptions, dispute the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, which is the
altogether). Those who wanted to hate Jews adopted the view that the Jews were a cabal controlling the Banks and the World. That also fell out of favor as an acceptable view. At one time is was widely thought that Jews used the blood of Christian
A French-Jewish philosopher whose name is escaping me at the moment made an insightful observation. At one time, mainstream Christian thinking was to hate Jews because the killed Christ. That view fell out of the mainstream (though not
been posted here about the crimes committed, but you simply choose to say they are not true. End of story.
Few people know what Zionism really is, let alone all the usual huff and puff you make. Many people deride and condemn Israel purely and solely because of its actions against a very suppressed minority. It is as simple as that. Many articles have
us to talk about.People who hate Jews and/or hate Israel constantly accuse Israel of this or that. Most of the accusations are debunked. If you are including Israel "occupying" the land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians as "suppression" there is nothing for
Ray Hall, Taree
i never refuse to talk. I can't imagine where that comes from.It's in the news. May times. The NYT, for instance, has retracted many such stories. Do you think Israel has a right to exist? And if so, does it have a right to defend itself against terrorism?
You debunk them. Of course. Most people do not.
Ray Hall, Taree
All you are doing is framing the questions, and then refusing to talk.
Your previous post, but one, or two, or a thouand.
Wo do you think you are?Someone who was interest in your views on the subject. Asking doesn't imply I think I am anyone other than who I am.
You are not interested in my views, as you are very well aware they are vastly different from yours. You are only interested in getting in the last word. As is evident from many years here.
Israel, and its people, have as much right to exist as other countries and their people.I'm glad you think so. Not everyone does.
Unfortunately, Israel is and has been run by thugs at the very top. It happens, same as in some other countries.
Do you mean every Israeli government since 1948? Or just all the right wing governments? Or just under Netanyahu's governments? Please clarify.
It is only necessary for you to accept that apartheid and suppression, amounting to violation of human rights has been practiced. Your complete and repeated denials are not a basis for any meaningful discussion.
Ray Hall, Taree
It is only necessary for you to accept that apartheid and suppression, amounting to violation of human rights has been practiced. Your complete and repeated denials are not a basis for any meaningful discussion.
Ray Hall, Taree
Why did you reply to my post in the first place? Just to get in a shot? If you really think Israel practices Apartheid, you an idiot or incredibly ignorant.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 14:30:05 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:I’m a Jew simply because my parents were Jewish, just as you are Christian because of your parentage. All I know and care about Israel is that I have a place to seek refuge if life becomes too tough for me wherever else I might be (because of my
It is only necessary for you to accept that apartheid and suppression, amounting to violation of human rights has been practiced. Your complete and repeated denials are not a basis for any meaningful discussion.
Ray Hall, Taree
Why did you reply to my post in the first place? Just to get in a shot? If you really think Israel practices Apartheid, you an idiot or incredibly ignorant.On the contrary, you are. Unbelievably so. But then I have known that for some time.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:parentage).
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 14:30:05 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
It is only necessary for you to accept that apartheid and suppression, amounting to violation of human rights has been practiced. Your complete and repeated denials are not a basis for any meaningful discussion.
Ray Hall, Taree
Why did you reply to my post in the first place? Just to get in a shot? If you really think Israel practices Apartheid, you an idiot or incredibly ignorant.On the contrary, you are. Unbelievably so. But then I have known that for some time.
Ray Hall, TareeI’m a Jew simply because my parents were Jewish, just as you are Christian because of your parentage. All I know and care about Israel is that I have a place to seek refuge if life becomes too tough for me wherever else I might be (because of my
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 12:09:19 UTC, Marc S wrote:antisemite.
Israel is not an appartheid state, and it's fucking ridiculous that ignorant idiots like Ray single out israel, accusing it of things it isn't, while not saying a single word about the abuses of human rights in "palestine" - imo Ray is clearly an
I've never known Ray to say anything antisemitic in all the years he's been here. He is a very vocal critic of the State of Israel but in that he just joins thousands and thousands of others around the world who are also not antisemitic people, justthinking humans. As I've said before, when you label critics of the State of Israel "antisemitic" you yourself make the term meaningless, and so nobody should be bothered by it. The more the term is abused in this way, the more meaningless it will become
Israel is not an appartheid state, and it's fucking ridiculous that ignorant idiots like Ray single out israel, accusing it of things it isn't, while not saying a single word about the abuses of human rights in "palestine" - imo Ray is clearly anantisemite.
Norman Schwartz schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Dezember 2022 um 12:09:34 UTC+1:parentage).
On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 14:30:05 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
It is only necessary for you to accept that apartheid and suppression, amounting to violation of human rights has been practiced. Your complete and repeated denials are not a basis for any meaningful discussion.
Ray Hall, Taree
Why did you reply to my post in the first place? Just to get in a shot? If you really think Israel practices Apartheid, you an idiot or incredibly ignorant.On the contrary, you are. Unbelievably so. But then I have known that for some time.
Ray Hall, TareeI’m a Jew simply because my parents were Jewish, just as you are Christian because of your parentage. All I know and care about Israel is that I have a place to seek refuge if life becomes too tough for me wherever else I might be (because of my
It's probably für die Katz (for the cat/a waste of time), but I'll try anyway:decided for you: No matter what you do to leave your "jewishness" behind you, you can't, in the eyes of the world you will "always" be a jew.
Being Jewish in this world is different from being a Christian or a Buddhist or a Muslim or whatever.
You are right in a sense that your religious affilitation is hereditary (just as is the case with Christians), but in contrast to Christians or Muslims who leave their religion, "you" (most Jews) will always be considered Jewish by other people.
So, being a Christian is basically a choice that people can make; I can leave the church tomorrow and if I tell people I left it, noone will confuse me for a christian. But with "you" it's different, you can't make this choice, as the world has already
We are living in the era of nation states, and Jews will always be considered "alien" within other nations, which is precisely the reason why the Jews need a state.history, traditions, and religion. In this sense, the only group in Europe that fulfilled the determination of citizenship as a pure political abstraction was the Jews following their political emancipation. They were German or French citizens, but not
As Moishe Postone puts it:
"In Europe, however, the notion of the nation as a purely political entity, abstracted from the substantiality of civil society, was never fully realized. The nation was not only a political entity, it was also concrete, determined by a common language,
Israel is not an appartheid state, and it's fucking ridiculous that ignorant idiots like Ray single out israel, accusing it of things it isn't, while not saying a single word about the abuses of human rights in "palestine" - imo Ray is clearly anantisemite. What rights do homosexuals have in "Palestine"? What rights do women have in "Palestine"? How are Jews treated in Gaza and other places? While Israel sends medical supplies to Gaza (daily?)... What about Egypt's border with Gaza? Does this
It's should also be noted that the Iranians that are against the Regime are very pro-Israel ;)
Fuck the left-wing newspapers of Israel btw - they never miss an opportunity to demonize Netanyahu (just like NYP) - fortunately the young Israelis aren't having any of this shit and voted for Netanyahu - Amen!
On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 PM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:parentage).
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 14:30:05 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
It is only necessary for you to accept that apartheid and suppression, amounting to violation of human rights has been practiced. Your complete and repeated denials are not a basis for any meaningful discussion.
Ray Hall, Taree
Why did you reply to my post in the first place? Just to get in a shot? If you really think Israel practices Apartheid, you an idiot or incredibly ignorant.On the contrary, you are. Unbelievably so. But then I have known that for some time.
Ray Hall, TareeI’m a Jew simply because my parents were Jewish, just as you are Christian because of your parentage. All I know and care about Israel is that I have a place to seek refuge if life becomes too tough for me wherever else I might be (because of my
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 12:09:19 UTC, Marc S wrote:antisemite.
Israel is not an appartheid state, and it's fucking ridiculous that ignorant idiots like Ray single out israel, accusing it of things it isn't, while not saying a single word about the abuses of human rights in "palestine" - imo Ray is clearly an
I've never known Ray to say anything antisemitic in all the years he's been here. He is a very vocal critic of the State of Israel but in that he just joins thousands and thousands of others around the world who are also not antisemitic people, justthinking humans. As I've said before, when you label critics of the State of Israel "antisemitic" you yourself make the term meaningless, and so nobody should be bothered by it. The more the term is abused in this way, the more meaningless it will become
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
Bob Harper
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
I'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng, agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of Israel are two completely different things. You may take the view that they are identical, but that's nothing more than a personal opinion.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:nothing more than a personal opinion.
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real
difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then
identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
Bob Harper
I'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng, agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of Israel are two completely different things. >You may take the view that they are identical, but that's
On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:32:41 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real
difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then
identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
I'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng, >> agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of
Israel are two completely different things. You may take the view that they >> are identical, but that's nothing more than a personal opinion.
The fact "thousands agree" on anything does not make whatever they
agree on fair, decent, ethical, correct or reasonable. You and Ray are clearly very well educated and smart enough to understand that to
deny Jews their own state/land/nation will eventually lead to the
destruction of the Jewish people.
Israel is not perfect, but neither are any other nations on this planet.
dk
On 12/20/2022 3:37 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:32:41 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real
difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then >>> identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
I'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng,
agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of >> Israel are two completely different things. You may take the view that they
are identical, but that's nothing more than a personal opinion.
The fact "thousands agree" on anything does not make whatever they
agree on fair, decent, ethical, correct or reasonable. You and Ray are clearly very well educated and smart enough to understand that to
deny Jews their own state/land/nation will eventually lead to the destruction of the Jewish people.
Israel is not perfect, but neither are any other nations on this planet.
Neither does Israel practice Apartheid.
On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 1:01:49 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/20/2022 3:37 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:32:41 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real >>> difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then
identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
I'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng,
agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of
Israel are two completely different things. You may take the view that they
are identical, but that's nothing more than a personal opinion.
The fact "thousands agree" on anything does not make whatever they
agree on fair, decent, ethical, correct or reasonable. You and Ray are clearly very well educated and smart enough to understand that to
deny Jews their own state/land/nation will eventually lead to the destruction of the Jewish people.
Israel is not perfect, but neither are any other nations on this planet.
Neither does Israel practice Apartheid.Absolutely. Any comparison with South
Africa's Apartheid is total non-sense.
dk
But governments in democratic countries are voted in.
The fact "thousands agree" on anything does not make whatever they
agree on fair, decent, ethical, correct or reasonable. You and Ray are clearly very well educated and smart enough to understand that to
deny Jews their own state/land/nation will eventually lead to the
destruction of the Jewish people. > dk
On Wednesday, 21 December 2022 at 08:04:19 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:invariably by those on the right, to deride and condemn others, without having any need to make any explanation. Not that the right has ever been known for being aware about societal issues, and considering the plight of those worse off. Eat cake is
On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 1:01:49 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
On 12/20/2022 3:37 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:32:41 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real >>>>>> difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then >>>>>> identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
Framing your own views and posing them as a question to deride others, is a tactic well seen through. Shame that you hide behind the truth with a few pat assembly of words. Using glitzy acronyms and slang terms like "woke" are simply excuses, used
intelligent or honest. This implies nothing about the the majority of ordinary citizens who live there. And neither does it imply anything about the citizens of many other countries either. But governments in democratic countries are voted in. Some evenI'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng,
agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of >>>>> Israel are two completely different things. You may take the view that they
are identical, but that's nothing more than a personal opinion.
The fact "thousands agree" on anything does not make whatever they
agree on fair, decent, ethical, correct or reasonable. You and Ray are >>>> clearly very well educated and smart enough to understand that to
deny Jews their own state/land/nation will eventually lead to the
destruction of the Jewish people.
Israel is not perfect, but neither are any other nations on this planet.
As I have already stated ..... and who is saying that Israel should not exist?
Neither does Israel practice Apartheid.Absolutely. Any comparison with South
Africa's Apartheid is total non-sense.
dk
True, but then nobody was comparing Israel to South Africa. But to deny that a complicit persecution, engineered quietly by those at the very top, doesn't take place, flies in the face of far too many reports to even be considered as remotely
Ray Hall, Taree
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 20:37:26 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
The fact "thousands agree" on anything does not make whatever they
agree on fair, decent, ethical, correct or reasonable. You and Ray are
clearly very well educated and smart enough to understand that to
deny Jews their own state/land/nation will eventually lead to the
destruction of the Jewish people. > dk
I only said "thousands agree", which is an understatement, to try and show that antisemitism=anti-Zionism is not a "truth".
I never denied the right of Israel to exist. But I also support the right of Palestine to exist, again like many thousands of others etc etc.
All I have ever said is that criticising the State of Israel in itself isn't antisemitic.
intelligent or honest. This implies nothing about the the majority of ordinary citizens who live there. And neither does it imply anything about the citizens of many other countries either. But governments in democratic countries are voted in. Some evenAfrica's Apartheid is total non-sense.
dk
True, but then nobody was comparing Israel to South Africa. But to deny that a complicit persecution, engineered quietly by those at the very top, doesn't take place, flies in the face of far too many reports to even be considered as remotely
You sound just like the standard conspiracy theorists, who are as elusive.Ray Hall, TareeYou always make these vague charges citing undocumented sources ("too many reports", "thousands agree"). There is no substance to what you say. Nothing that can be refuted. Except that you said Israel practices Apartheid, which it obviously doesn't.
On Wednesday, 21 December 2022 at 10:47:26 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:intelligent or honest. This implies nothing about the the majority of ordinary citizens who live there. And neither does it imply anything about the citizens of many other countries either. But governments in democratic countries are voted in. Some even
Africa's Apartheid is total non-sense.
dk
True, but then nobody was comparing Israel to South Africa. But to deny that a complicit persecution, engineered quietly by those at the very top, doesn't take place, flies in the face of far too many reports to even be considered as remotely
You sound just like the standard conspiracy theorists, who are as elusive.You always make these vague charges citing undocumented sources ("too many reports", "thousands agree"). There is no substance to what you say. Nothing that can be refuted. Except that you said Israel practices Apartheid, which it obviously doesn't.
Ray Hall, Taree
It is only you, and a few others, who choose to deny these reports. I could send you many reports, too many to mention. All you will do is to deny every one of them. With you it is a pointless exercise. Besides, whether you choose to deny them doesn'talter the factual basis of most of these reports. Your views do not matter to me, or to anyone concerned with truth.
Ray Hall, Taree
The charge that every little criticism of Israel is labeled antisemitic by Jews is, in fact, a common antisemitic trope. Nobody ever said that every criticism of Israel is antisemitic or anti-Zionist. There are many people on the Left who don't thinkIsrael should exist as a Jewish homeland, at least in theory. This belief goes a long way toward justifying Palestinian violence and intransigence in the so-called peace process. The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the
On Wednesday, 21 December 2022 at 11:42:34 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:Israel should exist as a Jewish homeland, at least in theory. This belief goes a long way toward justifying Palestinian violence and intransigence in the so-called peace process. The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the
The charge that every little criticism of Israel is labeled antisemitic by Jews is, in fact, a common antisemitic trope. Nobody ever said that every criticism of Israel is antisemitic or anti-Zionist. There are many people on the Left who don't think
Mostly because they represent the oppressed, So obvious I fail to see why you are so melodramatic about it. And to narrow it down to three people is once again an attempt to minimise the opposition to the Israeli persecution of a suppressed people.Dream on.
Ray Hall, Taree
I do have a dream. It's a dream that I am virtually certain will come true. That is, there will never be a Palestinian state in existence of the sort envisioned by the two-state advocates. As non-Palestinian Arab states move towards normalizingrelations with Israel, they have and will continue to lose patience with Palestinian violence and intransigence. Some Saudi prince has already proposed that parts of the West Bank be rolled into the already-existing Palestinian state Jordan. I think that
It's also possible that the status quo will continue for a long time.
Op woensdag 21 december 2022 om 03:16:06 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
It's also possible that the status quo will continue for a long time.It won't. Israel will expand and ghetto-forming will continue.
Henk
On Wednesday, 21 December 2022 at 02:16:06 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:relations with Israel, they have and will continue to lose patience with Palestinian violence and intransigence. Some Saudi prince has already proposed that parts of the West Bank be rolled into the already-existing Palestinian state Jordan. I think that
I do have a dream. It's a dream that I am virtually certain will come true. That is, there will never be a Palestinian state in existence of the sort envisioned by the two-state advocates. As non-Palestinian Arab states move towards normalizing
My understanding of the State of Israel is what is in Wiki - that in 1947 following the British Mandate the United Nations adopted the Partition Plan for Palestine recommending the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states, and aninternationalized Jerusalem. Partition was accepted by the Jewish leadership, but rejected by Palestinian Arab leaders and the Arab states. I don't have a dream as such, but of course I fully support a homeland for the Jewish people. You could blame the
Op woensdag 21 december 2022 om 03:16:06 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
It's also possible that the status quo will continue for a long time.It won't. Israel will expand and ghetto-forming will continue.
Henk
On 12/21/2022 4:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:relations with Israel, they have and will continue to lose patience with Palestinian violence and intransigence. Some Saudi prince has already proposed that parts of the West Bank be rolled into the already-existing Palestinian state Jordan. I think that
On Wednesday, 21 December 2022 at 02:16:06 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
I do have a dream. It's a dream that I am virtually certain will come true. That is, there will never be a Palestinian state in existence of the sort envisioned by the two-state advocates. As non-Palestinian Arab states move towards normalizing
internationalized Jerusalem. Partition was accepted by the Jewish leadership, but rejected by Palestinian Arab leaders and the Arab states. I don't have a dream as such, but of course I fully support a homeland for the Jewish people. You could blame theMy understanding of the State of Israel is what is in Wiki - that in 1947 following the British Mandate the United Nations adopted the Partition Plan for Palestine recommending the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states, and an
You have overlooked the fact that the Palestinian leadership doesn't want a two-state solution. They want to destroy Israel. It's no secret, they say so. If the Israeli people came to believe that the Palestinians really would live in peace with Israelif they got their state, I bet 3/4 of the Israeli people would support it.
Have you ever seen a recent map of the West Bank?
If you have, you clearly haven't understood the
consequences.
I am not here to discuss anything btw, there isn't anything to discuss with antisemites (like Henk, Andy and Ray etc). I haven't even read any messages after mine (besides Henk's and some of Frank's) - I am just here to state facts.
This sounds very cryptic. Can you explain the
"consequences"?
You have overlooked the fact that the Palestinian leadership doesn't want a two-state solution. They want to destroy Israel. It's no secret, they say so. If the Israeli people came to believe that the Palestinians really would live in peace with Israelif they got their state, I bet 3/4 of the Israeli people would support it.
On 12/21/2022 9:58 AM, HT wrote:story. Besides if one accepts the WB as rightfully Palestinian than why isn't all of Israel? If you say, well, Israel is a done deal and has to be accepted, tell that to the PA. If you say Israel is a done deal, then so are the large Jewish settlements
I am not here to discuss anything btw, there isn't anything to discuss with antisemites (like Henk, Andy and Ray etc). I haven't even read any messages after mine (besides Henk's and some of Frank's) - I am just here to state facts.
Have you ever seen a recent map of the West Bank? If you have, you clearly haven't understood the consequences.
HenkThe problem is you have already decided that the West Bank is the natural or legal or convenient or something homeland of the Palestinian people. If you start from the proposition that the land is disputed and not occupied, then there's a different
On Wednesday, 21 December 2022 at 14:20:27 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:Israel if they got their state, I bet 3/4 of the Israeli people would support it.
You have overlooked the fact that the Palestinian leadership doesn't want a two-state solution. They want to destroy Israel. It's no secret, they say so. If the Israeli people came to believe that the Palestinians really would live in peace with
Thanks for the reply, Frank. My take on the 2 state solution was that following the Oslo Accord, Arafat eventually came round to accepting it but that when the papers were due to be finalised, Rabin was murdered by Yigal Amir, a right wing extremist,to prevent the Oslo Accord taking place and to maintain the status quo with the Israeli government in total control. I admit this is a big simplification because the Arab nations were partly against it and the more militant Palestinians also. But in the
What's your take on this? I'd welcome a more detailed explanation.
You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the failure of the 2 state solution.
The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the native Palestinian population is ludicrous.
On Tuesday, 20 December 2022 at 17:28:22 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:nothing more than a personal opinion.
The two of you (Andy and Ray) are making a distinction without a real
difference. 'Anti-Zionism' and antisemitism are, if not identical, then
identical twins, sharing the same mental DNA, and both odious.
Bob Harper
I'm sorry, Bob, but I'm sure you know that thousands, and other on this ng, agree with Ray and myself that antisemitism and criticism of the State of Israel are two completely different things. You may take the view that they are identical, but that's
On 12/20/22 4:42 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the native Palestinian population is ludicrous.Precisely. Why, I wonder, don't the Israel haters study a little
history? Oh wait.
Bob Harper
On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:24:41 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:they right too? Oh wait .... there are those right wing bastards again ....
On 12/20/22 4:42 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the >>> native Palestinian population is ludicrous.Precisely. Why, I wonder, don't the Israel haters study a little
history? Oh wait.
Bob Harper
Why oh why don't those who will defend a country no matter what, study the facts as given in many reports. Of which every one will be denied here by the usual suspects. No wonder that the holocaust deniers see ample licence to ignore facts also. Are
As for history, I have little time for it. Or ever will have.which in many cases is wholly justified. And equating Zionism with anti-semitism is yet another vile practice, which will only serve to inflame many people, including many Jewish people. Also many people in this group.
In addition, using inflammatory terms such as "Israel haters" immediately identifies those on the defensive. I hate no country, or their people. But I do detest many at the very top who wield unnecessary force, by various means, to quell resistance,
Ray Hall, Taree
On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 23:59:50 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:they right too? Oh wait .... there are those right wing bastards again ....
On 12/23/2022 2:44 AM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:24:41 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/20/22 4:42 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the >>>>> native Palestinian population is ludicrous.Precisely. Why, I wonder, don't the Israel haters study a little
history? Oh wait.
Bob Harper
Why oh why don't those who will defend a country no matter what, study the facts as given in many reports. Of which every one will be denied here by the usual suspects. No wonder that the holocaust deniers see ample licence to ignore facts also. Are
which in many cases is wholly justified. And equating Zionism with anti-semitism is yet another vile practice, which will only serve to inflame many people, including many Jewish people. Also many people in this group.
As for history, I have little time for it. Or ever will haveby aaaaa
6
In addition, using inflammatory terms such as "Israel haters" immediately identifies those on the defensive. I hate no country, or their people. But I do detest many at the very top who wield unnecessary force, by various means, to quell resistance,
Resistance being bombing buses, restaurants. Justified. Right.
Ray Hall, Taree
More of the same old claptrap.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 12/23/2022 2:44 AM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:they right too? Oh wait .... there are those right wing bastards again ....
On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 15:24:41 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/20/22 4:42 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
The idea that European Jews marched into the Holy Land and displaced the >>> native Palestinian population is ludicrous.Precisely. Why, I wonder, don't the Israel haters study a little
history? Oh wait.
Bob Harper
Why oh why don't those who will defend a country no matter what, study the facts as given in many reports. Of which every one will be denied here by the usual suspects. No wonder that the holocaust deniers see ample licence to ignore facts also. Are
which in many cases is wholly justified. And equating Zionism with anti-semitism is yet another vile practice, which will only serve to inflame many people, including many Jewish people. Also many people in this group.As for history, I have little time for it. Or ever will haveby aaaaa
6
In addition, using inflammatory terms such as "Israel haters" immediately identifies those on the defensive. I hate no country, or their people. But I do detest many at the very top who wield unnecessary force, by various means, to quell resistance,
Ray Hall, TareeResistance being bombing buses, restaurants. Justified. Right.
On 12/21/22 1:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the failure of the 2 state solution.
Yes, we could, and should. The proposal bruited to roll them into Jordan
is an idea that should have happened long ago, but I don't know whether Jordan would agree without the complete removal of the current
Palestinian 'leadership'.
Bob HarperBack in king Hussein's day, he got exasperated with the PLO and threw them out. Hamas is better...but only marginally.
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 8:29:14 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/21/22 1:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:Back in king Hussein's day, he got exasperated with the PLO and threw them out.
You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the failure of the 2 state solution.
Yes, we could, and should. The proposal bruited to roll them into Jordan
is an idea that should have happened long ago, but I don't know whether
Jordan would agree without the complete removal of the current
Palestinian 'leadership'.
Bob Harper
Hamas is better...but only marginally.
On 12/23/22 1:23 PM, number_six wrote:Close call. I was thinking along these lines --
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 8:29:14 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:Really? Worse, I'd have thought.
On 12/21/22 1:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:Back in king Hussein's day, he got exasperated with the PLO and threw them out.
You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the failure of the 2 state solution.
Yes, we could, and should. The proposal bruited to roll them into Jordan >> is an idea that should have happened long ago, but I don't know whether
Jordan would agree without the complete removal of the current
Palestinian 'leadership'.
Bob Harper
Hamas is better...but only marginally.
Bob Harper
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 5:02:46 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/23/22 1:23 PM, number_six wrote:Close call. I was thinking along these lines --
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 8:29:14 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:Really? Worse, I'd have thought.
On 12/21/22 1:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:Back in king Hussein's day, he got exasperated with the PLO and threw them out.
You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the
failure of the 2 state solution.
Yes, we could, and should. The proposal bruited to roll them into Jordan >>>> is an idea that should have happened long ago, but I don't know whether >>>> Jordan would agree without the complete removal of the current
Palestinian 'leadership'.
Bob Harper
Hamas is better...but only marginally.
Bob Harper
(1) graft, (2) atrocity, and (3) bad faith negotiation.
other metrics could be considered.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 5:02:46 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/23/22 1:23 PM, number_six wrote:Close call. I was thinking along these lines --
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 8:29:14 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:Really? Worse, I'd have thought.
On 12/21/22 1:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:Back in king Hussein's day, he got exasperated with the PLO and threw them out.
You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the failure of the 2 state solution.
Yes, we could, and should. The proposal bruited to roll them into Jordan >>>> is an idea that should have happened long ago, but I don't know whether >>>> Jordan would agree without the complete removal of the current
Palestinian 'leadership'.
Bob Harper
Hamas is better...but only marginally.
Bob Harper
(1) graft, (2) atrocity, and (3) bad faith negotiation.
other metrics could be considered.
On 12/23/2022 9:53 PM, number_six wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 5:02:46 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/23/22 1:23 PM, number_six wrote:Close call. I was thinking along these lines --
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 8:29:14 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote: >>>>> On 12/21/22 1:02 AM, Andy Evans wrote:Really? Worse, I'd have thought.
Back in king Hussein's day, he got exasperated with the PLO and threw them out.You could blame the Palestinian Arab leaders at the time for the failure of the 2 state solution.
Yes, we could, and should. The proposal bruited to roll them into Jordan >>>>> is an idea that should have happened long ago, but I don't know whether >>>>> Jordan would agree without the complete removal of the current
Palestinian 'leadership'.
Bob Harper
Hamas is better...but only marginally.
Bob Harper
(1) graft, (2) atrocity, and (3) bad faith negotiation.
other metrics could be considered.
Talk about a distinction without a difference. Geez.
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