https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Thx
dk
Anti-American hysteria.
On 13 Dec 2022 Bob Harper wrote:
Anti-American hysteria.
Very convincing argumentation, and so succinct.
But have you actually read - and thought about-
the issues raised in the article?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate. Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions. > > dk
On Tuesday, 13 December 2022 at 21:04:31 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
I think my views on climate change are well known
on this ng. The science is clear - we need to radically
reduce emissions. But emissions are still going up.
This is all well understood science, not some kind of
Netflix fata morgana.
Op dinsdag 13 december 2022 om 22:04:31 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a good
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
On Tuesday, 13 December 2022 at 21:04:31 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:of the worst is the USA. The USA under Republicans and under Trump have been appallingly complacent and blind to what they are doing. It's about time Europe, which seems the only bloc that really cares about action on climate change, started imposing
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate. Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions. > > dk
I think my views on climate change are well known on this ng. The science is clear - we need to radically reduce emissions. But emissions are still going up. The world's leaders are showing an epic stupidity and complacency, and all the data shows one
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:35:06 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a goodLike Till Eulenspiegel? ;-)
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
Op woensdag 14 december 2022 om 15:48:22 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:35:06 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a good
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
Like Till Eulenspiegel? ;-)
???
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Thx
dk
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:18:40 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Like Till Eulenspiegel? ;-)
???His hanging ...
On 12/13/22 1:04 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Thx
dk
Anti-American hysteria.
Bob Harper
On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 1:04:31 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Is the author of that article criticizing
American exceptionalism?
I think my views on climate change are well known on this ng. The science is clear - we need to radically reduce emissions.
But emissions are still going up. The world's leaders are showing an epic stupidity and complacency, and all the data shows
one of the worst is the USA.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 4:29:12 AM, Andy Evans wrote:of progeny well above replacement rate. What do you and yr European comrades say about that? Are you willing to go on the record with a firm statement of denunciation regarding these procreating wanton humanoids? Because if you are not you are part of
I think my views on climate change are well known on this ng. The science is clear - we need to radically reduce emissions.
But emissions are still going up. The world's leaders are showing an epic stupidity and complacency, and all the data shows
one of the worst is the USA.
The only race of people getting smaller is the white race. Ergo, the white race is doing the most to combat climate change. *Ergo, Sieg Heil!* All the others, especially those on the Indian subcontinent and in Africa, are deniers who are having numbers
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 4:29:12 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
I think my views on climate change are well known on this ng.
The science is clear - we need to radically reduce emissions.
But emissions are still going up. The world's leaders are
showing an epic stupidity and complacency, and all the
data shows one of the worst is the USA.
The only race of people getting smaller is the white race. Ergo,
the white race is doing the most to combat climate change. All
the others, especially those on the Indian subcontinent and in
Africa, are deniers who are having numbers of progeny well
above replacement rate. What do you and yr European comrades
say about that? Are you willing to go on the record with a firm
statement of denunciation regarding these procreating wanton
humanoids? Because if you are not you are part of the problem
and not part of the solution. And the solution is "to radically reduce emissions", which starts, and stops, with fewer agents of emittance
(e.g. refineries, power stations, sentient creatures of all kinds who
breathe and fart) feeding fewer users of those agents (personkind).
So let's hear it. Stand and deliver or forever hold yr Thunberg-signed megaphone in silence outside The Hague.
The only race of people getting smaller is the white race. Ergo, the white race is doing the most to combat climate change. *Ergo, Sieg Heil!*
Setting aside for a moment the rabidly racist tone of your thesis,
the argument above is logically and mathematically flawed to the
point of stupidity.
What matters in the environment equation is not the raw number
of people, but rather per capita as well as aggregate use of resources
and the emissions they produce.
A single housewife in the US driving kids to soccer in a big SUV
generates produces more emissions than a thousand African
kids walking barefoot for miles to their schools every day.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 2:49:39 PM, deekay wrote:
Setting aside for a moment the rabidly racist tone of your thesis,Like, LOL?
the argument above is logically and mathematically flawed to the
point of stupidity.
What matters in the environment equation is not the raw number
of people, but rather per capita as well as aggregate use of resources
and the emissions they produce.
A single housewife in the US driving kids to soccer in a big SUV
generates produces more emissions than a thousand African
kids walking barefoot for miles to their schools every day.
Cool story bro. I'll stick with the experts.
From Christian Science Monitor:
The Christian Science Monitor are experts in bigotry and imbecility.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 2:49:39 PM, deekay wrote:
Setting aside for a moment the rabidly racist tone of your thesis,Like, LOL?
the argument above is logically and mathematically flawed to the
point of stupidity.
What matters in the environment equation is not the raw number
of people, but rather per capita as well as aggregate use of resources
and the emissions they produce.
A single housewife in the US driving kids to soccer in a big SUV
generates produces more emissions than a thousand African
kids walking barefoot for miles to their schools every day.
Cool story bro. I'll stick with the experts.
From Christian Science Monitor:
<< Nigeria is among eight countries the U.N. says will account for
more than half the world’s population growth between now and
2050, along with fellow African nations Congo, Ethiopia, and
Tanzania. “The population in many countries in sub-Saharan
Africa is projected to double between 2022 and 2050, putting
additional pressure on already strained resources and challenging
policies aimed to reduce poverty and inequalities,” the U.N. report
said. It projected the world’s population will reach around 8.5 billion
in 2030, 9.7 billion in 2050, and 10.4 billion in 2100. Other countries rounding out the list with the fastest growing populations are Egypt, Pakistan, the Philippines, and India, which is set to overtake China
as the world’s most populous nation next year.>>
You are also pretending you do not know the current
state of affairs is the result of 3 centuries of gross
polution by mostly Western nations' aggressive
industrialization.
A single housewife in the US driving kids to soccer in a big SUV
generates produces more emissions than a thousand African
kids walking barefoot for miles to their schools every day.
Case closed.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:35:06 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Op dinsdag 13 december 2022 om 22:04:31 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a goodLike Till Eulenspiegel? ;-)
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly, point by point, and rationally, especially by
those on the far right. They will raise their arms in mock disapproval, about prejudice being used,
and that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of an extra tax dollar.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Thx
dk
And car stereos. Who doesn't
love a good jam at 75 m.p.h.
Californians are paying and extra (approximately)
$1.25-.50 per gallon at the filling station compared
to other states, and even more than that compared
to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's insane.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 3:14:34 PM, deekay wrote:
You are also pretending you do not know the current
state of affairs is the result of 3 centuries of gross
polution by mostly Western nations' aggressive
industrialization.
We gave them vaccines to make up for it. And notions
and practices of modern democracy. And techniques
and tools to develop proper agricultural societies. And
electricity. And car stereos. Who doesn't love a good
jam at 75 m.p.h. AC/DC For Those About To ROCK!
Try that and see if you don't gun it an extra 5 m.p.h.
All kinds of stuff, really.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:39:22 PM, Ray Hall wrote:
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly, point by point, and rationally, especially byCalifornians are paying and extra (approximately) $1.25-.50 per gallon at the filling station compared to >other states, and even more than that compared to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's insane. A most >regressive tax if there ever was one.
those on the far right. They will raise their arms in mock disapproval, about prejudice being used,
and that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of an extra tax dollar.
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII,
when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a
contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly)
compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where
personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a good
start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left
arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII,
when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a
contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly)
compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where
personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a goodThere should be a single tax system for everyone, corporate or not, with one way and
start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left
arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
one way only to compute taxes, and no loopholes. Families should be treated the same
as corporations for tax purposes. That would level the field.
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 19:18:41 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII,
when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a
contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly)
compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where
personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a good
start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left
arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
There should be a single tax system for everyone, corporate or not, with one way and
one way only to compute taxes, and no loopholes. Families should be treated the same
as corporations for tax purposes. That would level the field.
Agree with this fully. No loopholes. But who is going to close them?
On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 08:04:31 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly,
point by point, and rationally, especially by those on
the far right. They will raise their arms in mock
disapproval, about prejudice being used, and
that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of
an extra tax dollar.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII,
when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a
contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly)
compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where
personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a goodThere should be a single tax system for everyone, corporate or not, with one way and
start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left
arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
one way only to compute taxes, and no loopholes. Families should be treated the same
as corporations for tax purposes. That would level the field.
dk
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 16:53:13 UTC+11, Oscar wrote:reasonable slowly) compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:39:22 PM, Ray Hall wrote:
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly, point by point, and rationally, especially by
those on the far right. They will raise their arms in mock disapproval, about prejudice being used,
and that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of an extra tax dollar. >> Californians are paying and extra (approximately) $1.25-.50 per gallon at the filling station compared to >other states, and even more than that compared to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's insane. A most >regressive tax if there ever was one.
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII, when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a good start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
Ray Hall, Taree
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:53:13 PM UTC-8, Oscar wrote:
Californians are paying and extra (approximately)
$1.25-.50 per gallon at the filling station compared
to other states, and even more than that compared
to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's insane.
If gas prices are to be used as yardstick
for civilization, then Venezuela would be
the most civilized nations in the world.
You should move there.
What makes Missouri so great? Can you
provide evidence to support your case?
Full disclosure: I drove through Missouri
once on a business trip. I could not find
premium gas anywhere (note however
this was many years ago), and coffee
was undrinkable. No latte or espresso,
no sushi or risotto, no chocolate that
was even minimally edible. In other
words, no evidence of civilization.
dk
On 12/14/22 11:56 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:reasonable slowly) compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 16:53:13 UTC+11, Oscar wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:39:22 PM, Ray Hall wrote:
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly, point by point, and rationally, especially by
those on the far right. They will raise their arms in mock disapproval, about prejudice being used,
and that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of an extra tax dollar. >>> Californians are paying and extra (approximately) $1.25-.50 per gallon at the filling station compared to >other states, and even more than that compared to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's insane. A most >regressive tax if there ever was one.
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII, when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a good start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
Ray Hall, Taree
Corporations do not PAY taxes, they simply COLLECT them for the government. Econ 101.
Bob Harper
On 12/15/2022 6:21 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/14/22 11:56 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 16:53:13 UTC+11, Oscar wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:39:22 PM, Ray Hall wrote:
Californians are paying and extra (approximately) $1.25-.50 per
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly, point by
point, and rationally, especially by
those on the far right. They will raise their arms in mock
disapproval, about prejudice being used,
and that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of an extra tax
dollar.
gallon at the filling station compared to >other states, and even
more than that compared to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's
insane. A most >regressive tax if there ever was one.
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that
since the end of WWII, when personal income tax was about equal to
corporation tax percentage wise, as a contribution to federal tax
revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly) compared
to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point
where personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation
contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly,
would be a good start in improving what governments can and cannot
do. Irrespective of right or left arguments. That would be a start in
the right direction.
Ray Hall, Taree
Corporations do not PAY taxes, they simply COLLECT them for the
government. Econ 101.
Bob Harper
?
On 12/15/22 5:02 PM, Frank Berger wrote:one.
On 12/15/2022 6:21 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
On 12/14/22 11:56 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 16:53:13 UTC+11, Oscar wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 9:39:22 PM, Ray Hall wrote:
Californians are paying and extra (approximately) $1.25-.50 per gallon at the filling station compared to >other states, and even more than that compared to, say, the great state of Missouri. It's insane. A most >regressive tax if there ever was
You will never hear the arguments discussed directly, point by point, and rationally, especially by
those on the far right. They will raise their arms in mock disapproval, about prejudice being used,
and that is as far as it will go. All for the sake of an extra tax dollar.
reasonable slowly) compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII, when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a good start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
Ray Hall, Taree
Corporations do not PAY taxes, they simply COLLECT them for the government. Econ 101.
Bob Harper
?
It's a pass through, right? Imperfect, to be sure, but basically so.
Bob Harper
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII,
when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a
contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly)
compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where
personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a goodThere should be a single tax system for everyone, corporate or not, with one way and
start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left
arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
one way only to compute taxes, and no loopholes. Families should be treated the same
as corporations for tax purposes. That would level the field.
dk
Op dinsdag 13 december 2022 om 22:04:31 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a good
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:35:06 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:1x slower brings it to a halt!
Op dinsdag 13 december 2022 om 22:04:31 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a good
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
Wim Wenders! Playing music
2x slower uses less energy!
dk
On 2023-01-23 9:21 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:35:06 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Op dinsdag 13 december 2022 om 22:04:31 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com: >>> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a good
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
Wim Wenders! Playing music
2x slower uses less energy!
dk1x slower brings it to a halt!
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:41:48 AM UTC+1, Graham wrote:
On 2023-01-23 9:21 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:35:06 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Op dinsdag 13 december 2022 om 22:04:31 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com: >>> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/09/us-world-climate-collapse-nations
Not taking sides, just mentioning for open debate.
Would be happy to hear arguments from all sides.
One doesn't doubt many have formed opinions.
Excellent article. The Netherlands are a good
example of what happens when one is forced
to act.
Wim Wenders! Playing music
2x slower uses less energy!
Wim Wenders is a movie maker.dk1x slower brings it to a halt!
Wim Winters is the music eccentric.
On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
Despite the variation between certain states, it is a known fact that since the end of WWII,
when personal income tax was about equal to corporation tax percentage wise, as a
contribution to federal tax revenues, personal income tax has risen (reasonable slowly)
compared to a much more dramatic fall off in corporation taxes, to the point where
personal tax contributions nearly exceed corporation contributions almost 3:1.
Closing off the loopholes used by corporations, and used blatantly, would be a goodThere should be a single tax system for everyone, corporate or not, with one way and
start in improving what governments can and cannot do. Irrespective of right or left
arguments. That would be a start in the right direction.
one way only to compute taxes, and no loopholes. Families should be treated the same
as corporations for tax purposes. That would level the field.
dk
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