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  • Favorite Transcriptions?

    From Notsure01@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 10 20:46:45 2022
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as effective as the composer's
    originals - or is that sometimes not the case? I'm not sure...

    Here's a Sacre version that I found absolutely amazing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1G3qg8dAM

    Also, I know that many composers made their own transcriptions - are
    there any worth discussing for their effectiveness or lack thereof?

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 10 22:24:57 2022
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as
    effective as the composer's originals -
    or is that sometimes not the case?
    I'm not sure...

    You may not be sure how effective are
    transcriptions, however to ask such a
    question one has to be a silly narrow
    minded literalist engaging in pointless
    hair splitting of performing arts.

    There are no meaningful statistical
    metrics of "music effectiveness".
    Every person experiences music
    differently. What is "effective" to
    one person may be completely
    boring or stupid to another.

    One cannot help but wonder is you
    are a real person, or just another
    ChatGPT bot. I am increasingly
    inclined to believe the latter.

    Was your "distinguished career"
    the time spent inside a beaker
    at Google AI Labs waiting to
    be hatched onto the world at
    large?

    dk

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  • From Notsure01@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Dec 11 02:24:01 2022
    On 12/11/22 1:24 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as
    effective as the composer's originals -
    or is that sometimes not the case?
    I'm not sure...

    You may not be sure how effective are
    transcriptions, however to ask such a
    question one has to be a silly narrow
    minded literalist engaging in pointless
    hair splitting of performing arts.

    There are no meaningful statistical
    metrics of "music effectiveness".
    Every person experiences music
    differently. What is "effective" to
    one person may be completely
    boring or stupid to another.

    One cannot help but wonder is you
    are a real person, or just another
    ChatGPT bot. I am increasingly
    inclined to believe the latter.

    Was your "distinguished career"
    the time spent inside a beaker
    at Google AI Labs waiting to
    be hatched onto the world at
    large?

    dk

    One man's "pointless hair splitting of performing arts" could be a bot's "interesting discussion". I suspect there is somewhat of a difference of opinion here as to the purpose of RMCR, but, as has been noted, this
    group is open to all kinds of participants, and I have been vigorously exercising my right to post inane drivel.

    Also, although my distinguished career was in fact in the area of Data Processing, I haven't been using metrics to measure anything in real
    life, let alone any metrics that are statistically meaningful.

    But to finally get to the point, I guess I should clarify what I mean
    about a transcription being less "effective" than the original. The
    assumption is that when a composer creates the original work, he takes
    into account the capabilities of the instrumentation he is writing for,
    and most transcriptions are for fewer instruments, and thus less
    effective in some sense. My question was posed to allow comments about transcriptions such as Ravel's of Musorgski - and that's the type of
    thing worth arguing about!

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 01:47:18 2022
    Thing to keep in mind, Shirley, is that DK regards RMCR as his lawn. 'Get off my lawn!'
    Anyone who posts here, or even worse, posts a new topic, will be chastized. This happens a lot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Roland van Gaalen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 02:08:26 2022
    Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    The last time I heard Cavalleria Rusticana was in 1978:
    "Live from the Met" on American television (PBS?).

    It was quite a show! I was 20 years old at that time.

    This transcription of a short fragment, as recorded here, is a favorite of mine.
    (Brevity. Concision. Intensity. The sound of the Riverside Church organ. The sound of the organist.)

    https://youtu.be/FCxnRaPjsaQ
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 03:08:40 2022
    Op zondag 11 december 2022 om 02:46:50 UTC+1 schreef Notsure01:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as effective as the composer's originals - or is that sometimes not the case? I'm not sure...

    Here's a Sacre version that I found absolutely amazing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1G3qg8dAM

    Also, I know that many composers made their own transcriptions - are
    there any worth discussing for their effectiveness or lack thereof?

    My favourite transcription by far is Stravinsky's own transcription of Petrushka (here performed by Weissenberg):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aTDn93Mhso

    Whether it's effective as a transcription, I don't know/care. For me, transcriptions are an independent work of art. If I wanted to hear the original, I'd listen to the original.

    Henk

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  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 12:29:35 2022
    Notsure01 a formulé la demande :
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.

    The ABSOLUTE king of transcription is obviously *Ferenc LISZT*...
    I have always preferred his transcriptions of Schubert's lieder to the originals!...
    And Tanhauser at Carnegie Hall by Bolet is a must !...

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  • From JohnGavin@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Sun Dec 11 03:33:09 2022
    On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 6:29:40 AM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
    Notsure01 a formulé la demande :
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to share
    their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts
    on them.
    The ABSOLUTE king of transcription is obviously *Ferenc LISZT*...
    I have always preferred his transcriptions of Schubert's lieder to the originals!...
    And Tanhauser at Carnegie Hall by Bolet is a must !...

    This one is great, but not easy to play:
    Rach picked this to transcribe because the orchestral original sounds very pianistic.

    https://youtu.be/H7CaEfO2u3A

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  • From JohnGavin@21:1/5 to JohnGavin on Sun Dec 11 03:35:50 2022
    On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 6:33:12 AM UTC-5, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 6:29:40 AM UTC-5, MELMOTH wrote:
    Notsure01 a formulé la demande :
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to share
    their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts
    on them.
    The ABSOLUTE king of transcription is obviously *Ferenc LISZT*...
    I have always preferred his transcriptions of Schubert's lieder to the originals!...
    And Tanhauser at Carnegie Hall by Bolet is a must !...
    This one is great, but not easy to play:
    Rach picked this to transcribe because the orchestral original sounds very pianistic.

    https://youtu.be/H7CaEfO2u3A

    And who needs an orchestra when you have a great sounding transcription like this:

    https://youtu.be/4x9QIt_fqQE

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  • From Notsure01@21:1/5 to Herman on Sun Dec 11 06:40:22 2022
    On 12/11/22 4:47 AM, Herman wrote:
    Thing to keep in mind, Shirley, is that DK regards RMCR as his lawn. 'Get off my lawn!'
    Anyone who posts here, or even worse, posts a new topic, will be chastized. This happens a lot.

    I get it - from that fine motion picture "Airplane!": "Surely there is
    someone on board who can fly a plane" "Don't call me Shirley". Just my
    kind of sophisticated humor!

    But just like we have strong opinions about music, Dan, and you - and me
    too - have strong opinions about RMCR. I hope to control myself, and
    have avoided name calling so far - now I'll try to avoid endless
    bickering, the incessant repetition of the same points, etc.

    If we all behave better, that will certainly be appreciated by the more
    normal people here (who are doubtless just abnormal in different ways).

    And since my thread is now probably ruined, I feel less guilty about
    waxing philosophical:

    What is the purpose of RMCR? Some have said that it is wrong to post quotations. Others have complained about the bare YouTube links. For
    some folks the resurrection of old threads is annoying. Some deplore
    lengthy philosophical posts, while others ask for specific rationales
    for preferences. It's been noted that when lists of best versions are
    posted eventually almost every performance is listed by someone. And
    there are those who state that preferences are so subjective that
    discussion is pointless!

    If all of these complaints were to be resolved, not too much is then left...

    One thing is certainly pointless - trying to get anyone to change! We
    are all grumpy old codgers (or codgers-in-training) and complaining
    about each other's opinions, posts, threads - or silly jokes - serves no purpose.

    I realize that all this has been said before - and most people here just
    want to talk about Classical Recordings. As was well put by George
    Carlin: "Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream
    of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to
    work and don't have time for all that".

    And now the obligatory silly joke:

    A fellow has a stand in the market where he sells fish, and has a sign
    "Fresh Fish Sold Here".

    Someone passes by and says why does your sign say "Here" - where else
    would you be selling?
    So the sign was changed to "Fresh Fish Sold"

    Another walked past, laughed, and said you needn't say "Sold" - no one
    would expect you to give them away! So the sign was changed to "Fresh Fish".

    Yet another another person commented about the sign - you shouldn't say
    "Fresh" since obviously people wouldn't buy rotten fish - So the sign
    was changed to "Fish"

    Then another man stopped by, and said "With a smell like that, who needs
    a sign!"

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  • From Andy Evans@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 07:59:19 2022
    I nominate Falla 7 Popular Songs arranged by Berio

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCuidUYoySk

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Sun Dec 11 08:28:24 2022
    On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 11:29:40 AM UTC, MELMOTH wrote:
    Notsure01 a formulé la demande :
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to share
    their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts
    on them.
    The ABSOLUTE king of transcription is obviously *Ferenc LISZT*...
    I have always preferred his transcriptions of Schubert's lieder to the originals!...
    And Tanhauser at Carnegie Hall by Bolet is a must !...
    Who is interesting to hear in the three transcriptions Liszt made of his Petrarchan sonnets?

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 08:43:34 2022
    The transcriptions / settings / arrangements which interest me most at the moment is of music which probably no one else who posts here listens to. We’ll see:

    Holliger’s Machaut
    Finnissy’s Verdi Transcriptions, especially Book 2
    Webern’s transcription for two pianos of Schoenberg’s five pieces for orchestra
    Johannes Schöllhorn’s setting of Satie’s Uspud
    Lachenmann’s setting of his Grido for string orchestra (Double)
    Daniel Isoir’s setting of Mozart’s Piano Concerto 27
    Jan van Vlijmen’s setting of Bach’s Art of Fugue (recorded by Viotta Ensemble)

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 08:27:10 2022
    Cziffra playing his Brahms transcriptions live at Senlis. Accept no imitations, the studio recording, for all its strengths, doesn’t quite have the magic.

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  • From number_six@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 11 19:02:27 2022
    when Bream played the Chaconne

    when Berg and Webern arranged J Strauss jr

    when organist Samuel John Swartz tackled the Tannhauser overture

    + many others

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  • From Andy Evans@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 12 03:29:56 2022
    On Monday, 12 December 2022 at 03:02:31 UTC, number_six wrote:

    when Berg and Webern arranged J Strauss jr

    Yes indeed - that's a favourite of mine. Especially this lovely video of the Kaiser Walzer arranged by Schonberg and filmed in a Vienna coffee house. Very gemutlich.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omojlx7QpaY

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  • From Roland van Gaalen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 12 05:38:00 2022
    Op maandag 12 december 2022 om 12:29:59 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
    On Monday, 12 December 2022 at 03:02:31 UTC, number_six wrote:

    when Berg and Webern arranged J Strauss jr
    Yes indeed - that's a favourite of mine. Especially this lovely video of the Kaiser Walzer arranged by Schonberg and filmed in a Vienna coffee house. Very gemutlich.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omojlx7QpaY

    Thank you, Number Six and Andy, for mentioning and posting this!
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

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  • From AB@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 12 10:55:34 2022
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 8:46:50 PM UTC-5, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as effective as the composer's originals - or is that sometimes not the case? I'm not sure...

    Here's a Sacre version that I found absolutely amazing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1G3qg8dAM

    Also, I know that many composers made their own transcriptions - are
    there any worth discussing for their effectiveness or lack thereof?

    terrific. wish I knew of this arrangement during my bassoon playing days.

    AB

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  • From Kerrison@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 12 12:06:03 2022
    On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:55:37 PM UTC, AB wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 8:46:50 PM UTC-5, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as effective as the composer's originals - or is that sometimes not the case? I'm not sure...

    Here's a Sacre version that I found absolutely amazing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1G3qg8dAM

    Also, I know that many composers made their own transcriptions - are
    there any worth discussing for their effectiveness or lack thereof?
    terrific. wish I knew of this arrangement during my bassoon playing days.

    AB


    This must be one of the most performed orchestral arrangements of them all ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS88lWHvvGw

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  • From Notsure01@21:1/5 to Roland van Gaalen on Mon Dec 12 17:08:25 2022
    On 12/12/22 8:38 AM, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
    Op maandag 12 december 2022 om 12:29:59 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
    On Monday, 12 December 2022 at 03:02:31 UTC, number_six wrote:

    when Berg and Webern arranged J Strauss jr
    Yes indeed - that's a favourite of mine. Especially this lovely video of the Kaiser Walzer arranged by Schonberg and filmed in a Vienna coffee house. Very gemutlich.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omojlx7QpaY

    Thank you, Number Six and Andy, for mentioning and posting this!
    --
    Roland van Gaalen
    Amsterdam

    Thank you, Roland, and thanks for all who have contributed! I appreciate
    the fact that folks were not distracted by the quarreling previously in
    this thread - my early "New Years Resolution" is to avoid criticizing
    other posters and to resist the temptation to be drawn into endless
    spats. Wouldn't it be quite a Christmas gift to all of us if everyone
    did the same?

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  • From Todd M. McComb@21:1/5 to docduc1013@aol.com on Mon Dec 12 22:09:19 2022
    In article <81e378ae-30e6-4752-a9c7-bb914a6b5aad@aol.com>,
    Notsure01 <docduc1013@aol.com> wrote:
    Wouldn't it be quite a Christmas gift to all of us if everyone did
    the same?

    I'm definitely ready to stop being lectured by you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Kerrison@21:1/5 to Todd M. McComb on Tue Dec 13 13:30:07 2022
    On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <81e378ae-30e6-4752...aol.com>,
    Notsure01 <docdu...aol.com> wrote:
    Wouldn't it be quite a Christmas gift to all of us if everyone did
    the same?
    I'm definitely ready to stop being lectured by you.


    Sir Henry Wood's orchestration of Debussy's "Sunken Cathedral" complete with a bunch of cathedral bells up in the Royal Albert Hall gallery, as well as the grand organ thrown in too ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YO5Rn87ZuA

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 13 14:07:10 2022
    On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    my early "New Years Resolution" is to avoid
    criticizing other posters and to resist the
    temptation to be drawn into endless spats.

    Stupid! You will receive no brownie points
    or absolutions for being "nice". Criticize
    and spar as much as you like.

    Wouldn't it be quite a Christmas gift to
    all of us if everyone did the same?

    No, it wouldn't. How about those among us
    who do not celebrate Christmas? Do you
    think all the folks posting in this ng are
    WASPs? Some us aren't white, some of
    us are not Evangelicals or Protestants,
    some of us are not even Christian or
    Caucasian!

    Keep your Christmas gifts for your kin.

    dk

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  • From Notsure01@21:1/5 to Kerrison on Tue Dec 13 22:23:16 2022
    On 12/13/22 4:30 PM, Kerrison wrote:
    On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <81e378ae-30e6-4752...aol.com>,
    Notsure01 <docdu...aol.com> wrote:
    Wouldn't it be quite a Christmas gift to all of us if everyone did
    the same?
    I'm definitely ready to stop being lectured by you.


    Sir Henry Wood's orchestration of Debussy's "Sunken Cathedral" complete with a bunch of cathedral bells up in the Royal Albert Hall gallery, as well as the grand organ thrown in too ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YO5Rn87ZuA


    This was truly spectacular - thanks for sharing it! I doubt if Debussy
    would have approved, but this version was certainly very effective in
    its way.

    It would be interesting if people could post them when they find
    transcriptions for unusual instruments, particularly when they help us
    to appreciate different aspects of a composition.

    And there are cases where a transcription results in the loss of a
    dimension, such as when a string quartet is played by an orchestra.

    For example this Bernstein version of Beethoven's c sharp minor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYGTurA-5bA

    Well played certainly, but I miss the sonority of a quartet - it seemed
    sort of soft-edged and diffuse.

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 13 20:27:54 2022
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    For me, the KIng of transcriptions these last few decades is Kazuhito Yamashita

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvidivbaAaE&list=OLAK5uy_npHCznKE5HKW1P_8aFgXn-3fr6mP__ilo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYblQV6wKY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNlwmpU7Rk&list=RD2FNlwmpU7Rk&index=1

    ... and the list goes on and on...

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to pnal...@gmail.com on Wed Dec 14 03:48:39 2022
    On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    For me, the KIng of transcriptions these last few decades is Kazuhito Yamashita

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvidivbaAaE&list=OLAK5uy_npHCznKE5HKW1P_8aFgXn-3fr6mP__ilo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYblQV6wKY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNlwmpU7Rk&list=RD2FNlwmpU7Rk&index=1

    ... and the list goes on and on...

    And who is the Queen? I ask the question ...... ;-)

    dk

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Wed Dec 14 04:49:22 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:48:42 AM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.

    For me, the KIng of transcriptions these last few decades is Kazuhito Yamashita

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvidivbaAaE&list=OLAK5uy_npHCznKE5HKW1P_8aFgXn-3fr6mP__ilo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYblQV6wKY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNlwmpU7Rk&list=RD2FNlwmpU7Rk&index=1

    ... and the list goes on and on...
    And who is the Queen? I ask the question ...... ;-)

    dk

    Liberace obvs.

    This is probably my favourite transcription performance. The song is special for me because, when I was 17, I had a job serving beers in a workers' pub in Manchester (England, not New Hampshire) where they would sing this song after a few pints.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvd4JyKd14&ab_channel=LibThack

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Wed Dec 14 05:25:27 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 4:49:25 AM UTC-8, Mandryka wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:48:42 AM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.

    For me, the KIng of transcriptions these last few decades is Kazuhito Yamashita

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvidivbaAaE&list=OLAK5uy_npHCznKE5HKW1P_8aFgXn-3fr6mP__ilo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYblQV6wKY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNlwmpU7Rk&list=RD2FNlwmpU7Rk&index=1

    ... and the list goes on and on...
    And who is the Queen? I ask the question ...... ;-)

    Liberace obvs.

    This is probably my favourite transcription performance.
    The song is special for me because, when I was 17, I had
    a job serving beers in a workers' pub in Manchester (England,
    not New Hampshire) where they would sing this song after a
    few pints.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvd4JyKd14&ab_channel=LibThack

    The Baldwin was out of tune! ;-)

    dk

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  • From Kerrison@21:1/5 to dan....gmail.com on Wed Dec 14 05:56:02 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 1:25:31 PM UTC, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 4:49:25 AM UTC-8, Mandryka wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:48:42 AM UTC, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-8, pnal...gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.

    For me, the KIng of transcriptions these last few decades is Kazuhito Yamashita

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvidivbaAaE&list=OLAK5uy_npHCznKE5HKW1P_8aFgXn-3fr6mP__ilo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYblQV6wKY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FNlwmpU7Rk&list=RD2FNlwmpU7Rk&index=1

    ... and the list goes on and on...
    And who is the Queen? I ask the question ...... ;-)

    Liberace obvs.

    This is probably my favourite transcription performance.
    The song is special for me because, when I was 17, I had
    a job serving beers in a workers' pub in Manchester (England,
    not New Hampshire) where they would sing this song after a
    few pints.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvd4JyKd14&ab_channel=LibThack
    The Baldwin was out of tune! ;-)

    dk


    I'm not sure if "transcriptions for unusual instruments" applies in the case of Andrew Davis's orchestration of the Bach Passacaglia and Fugue but he certainly has a field day with his BBCSO performance from Germany in 2006. The theme is plucked out on
    the piano at the very start, after which we're treated to what sounds like every instrumental combination possible. In fact, if my ears didn't deceive me, I thought I detected hints of a xylophone, a glockenspiel, even a marimba at one point and possibly
    a tubular bell or two. At any rate, he out-does Respighi and Stokowski when it comes to imaginative orchestral effects in this arrangement, so lets hope he has a few more Bach transcriptions up his sleeve ... :) ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV67Ic3BTrU

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Dec 14 06:56:06 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:53:40 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/@fredericmeinders/videos


    https://www.fredericmeinders.com/discography-cd

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Dec 14 07:02:41 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:56:09 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:53:40 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/@fredericmeinders/videos

    https://www.fredericmeinders.com/discography-cd


    Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 14 06:53:37 2022
    https://www.youtube.com/@fredericmeinders/videos

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  • From Andy Evans@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Wed Dec 14 08:47:06 2022
    On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 15:02:45 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.
    dk

    I looked up his transcription of Jobim Caminhos Cruzados https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdF6jIWD6BQ

    But in this case there's another pianist way ahead of him who may be largely unknown in general but was certainly appreciated in his home Brazil - Amilton Godoy of the Zimbo Trio, a jazz trio still hugely revered by musicians. The Trio, launched in 1964,
    was one of the most influential groups of Brazilian music in the second half of the 20th century.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UU-zvS_HU

    Here's a link to the whole album by the Zimbo Trio - an old favourite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7A3wU13zo

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Dec 14 10:19:40 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:16:59 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:47:09 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
    On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 15:02:45 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.

    I looked up his transcription of Jobim Caminhos Cruzados https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdF6jIWD6BQ

    But in this case there's another pianist way ahead of him
    who may be largely unknown in general but was certainly
    appreciated in his home Brazil - Amilton Godoy of the
    Zimbo Trio, a jazz trio still hugely revered by musicians.
    The Trio, launched in 1964, was one of the most influential
    groups of Brazilian music in the second half of the 20th century. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UU-zvS_HU

    Here's a link to the whole album by the Zimbo Trio - an old
    favourite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7A3wU13zo

    https://www.amiltongodoy.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l7SHGTB5TQo5-Fxsbpvcr9VgUpHN9ady0

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Andy Evans on Wed Dec 14 10:16:55 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:47:09 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
    On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 15:02:45 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.

    I looked up his transcription of Jobim Caminhos Cruzados https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdF6jIWD6BQ

    But in this case there's another pianist way ahead of him
    who may be largely unknown in general but was certainly
    appreciated in his home Brazil - Amilton Godoy of the
    Zimbo Trio, a jazz trio still hugely revered by musicians.
    The Trio, launched in 1964, was one of the most influential
    groups of Brazilian music in the second half of the 20th century. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UU-zvS_HU

    Here's a link to the whole album by the Zimbo Trio - an old
    favourite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7A3wU13zo

    https://www.amiltongodoy.com/

    dk

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  • From number_six@21:1/5 to Andy Evans on Wed Dec 14 18:00:27 2022
    On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:29:59 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
    On Monday, 12 December 2022 at 03:02:31 UTC, number_six wrote:

    when Berg and Webern arranged J Strauss jr
    Yes indeed - that's a favourite of mine. Especially this lovely video of the Kaiser Walzer arranged by Schonberg and filmed in a Vienna coffee house. Very gemutlich.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omojlx7QpaY
    Well played -- showcases the different eras of composer and arranger, and the genius of each.

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  • From Notsure01@21:1/5 to Kerrison on Wed Dec 14 21:28:00 2022
    On 12/14/22 8:56 AM, Kerrison wrote:


    I'm not sure if "transcriptions for unusual instruments" applies in the case of Andrew Davis's orchestration of the Bach Passacaglia and Fugue

    First, thanks for sharing that orchestration which was definitely
    unusually good! My suggestion that folks would contribute transcriptions
    for unusual instruments is not meant to help uncover curiosities such as Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5 arranged for 12 kazoos or Arcana played on
    Marimba and such.

    Instead, the hope was to post examples where a transcription helps to
    add to our enjoyment of a familiar work - that is what I meant by "effectiveness" of a transcription - and examples could be arrangements
    that show the ingenuity of the transcriber or those that help to
    highlight aspects of a work that are less clear in the original.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 14 23:56:38 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:28:05 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    Instead, the hope was to post examples where a transcription helps to
    add to our enjoyment of a familiar work - that is what I meant by

    "Enjoyment" is such an individual experience it makes no sense
    to suggest it can be replicated, or even relevant, on a societal
    level.

    "effectiveness" of a transcription - and examples could be arrangements
    that show the ingenuity of the transcriber or those that help to
    highlight aspects of a work that are less clear in the original.

    You sound like you are desperately looking for pretexts
    to dance about architecture.

    The more you post, the more I am inclined to suspect
    you are nothing but an anonymous ChatGPT troll.

    Folks, please don't tell G8 or Melmoth about ChatGPT!
    Chaos and deluge would ensue! ;-)

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Dec 15 01:23:16 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:02:45 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:56:09 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 6:53:40 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/@fredericmeinders/videos

    https://www.fredericmeinders.com/discography-cd

    Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.

    Here is a raw download of all of Meinders' performances
    I found on YouTube, 137 audio files in total. There may be
    some duplicates. One can listen directly in one's browser.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/zcn4liufjdo79vhzcqgw4/h?dl=0&rlkey=aqmh03gh8t66pjy5e5ak0p5wx

    Because of the volume of this collection, I will limit access
    to one week.

    Enjoy!

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Dec 15 02:22:37 2022
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:19:43 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:16:59 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:47:09 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
    On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 15:02:45 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.

    I looked up his transcription of Jobim Caminhos Cruzados https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdF6jIWD6BQ

    But in this case there's another pianist way ahead of him
    who may be largely unknown in general but was certainly
    appreciated in his home Brazil - Amilton Godoy of the
    Zimbo Trio, a jazz trio still hugely revered by musicians.
    The Trio, launched in 1964, was one of the most influential
    groups of Brazilian music in the second half of the 20th century. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UU-zvS_HU

    Here's a link to the whole album by the Zimbo Trio - an old
    favourite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7A3wU13zo

    Here is a raw download of all of Godoy's recordings I
    found on YouTube, 137 audio files in total. There may be
    some duplicates. One can listen directly in one's browser.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/vto3z7q8cakrvsbaflrw4/h?dl=0&rlkey=i278mng00h9qhd0kocqkugthh

    Because of the volume of this collection, I will limit access
    to one week.

    Enjoy!

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 15 03:19:18 2022
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to
    allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or
    arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.

    Why do you care about people's "thoughts"?
    Every person hears, listens and experiences
    music differently -- such experiences cannot
    be shared with others in writing. As my friend
    Clara likes to say, "talking about music is like
    dancing about architecture".

    You should also learn English before asking
    people about their thoughts. It is "favourite",
    not "favorite".

    dk

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  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Dec 15 08:43:49 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:19:21 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to
    allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or
    arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.
    Why do you care about people's "thoughts"?
    Every person hears, listens and experiences
    music differently -- such experiences cannot
    be shared with others in writing. As my friend
    Clara likes to say, "talking about music is like
    dancing about architecture".

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared consensus as to what is good and not good?

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Thu Dec 15 08:52:11 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:19:21 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to
    allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or
    arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.
    Why do you care about people's "thoughts"?
    Every person hears, listens and experiences
    music differently -- such experiences cannot
    be shared with others in writing. As my friend
    Clara likes to say, "talking about music is like
    dancing about architecture".

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?

    Certainly for matters of public interest: energy,
    economy, transportation, financial insitutions,
    legal systems, etc... You should read about
    the so called "Great Insititution Theory" aka
    GIT.

    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level. Do you think you might
    enjoy the cuisine of New Guinea? You might
    actually be in the dish!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LYvAoKRIeU

    dk

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  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Thu Dec 15 08:48:40 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:19:21 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to
    allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or
    arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.
    Why do you care about people's "thoughts"?
    Every person hears, listens and experiences
    music differently -- such experiences cannot
    be shared with others in writing. As my friend
    Clara likes to say, "talking about music is like
    dancing about architecture".
    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared consensus as to what is good and not good?

    https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/lJHSDugu6L0/m/1cDwYnBvCAAJ

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Dec 15 08:54:31 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:19:21 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to
    allow people to share their favorite transcriptions or
    arrangements - and to provide their thoughts on them.
    Why do you care about people's "thoughts"?
    Every person hears, listens and experiences
    music differently -- such experiences cannot
    be shared with others in writing. As my friend
    Clara likes to say, "talking about music is like
    dancing about architecture".

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?
    Certainly for matters of public interest: energy,
    economy, transportation, financial insitutions,
    legal systems, etc... You should read about
    the so called "Great Insititution Theory" aka
    GIT.

    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level. Do you think you might
    enjoy the cuisine of New Guinea? You might
    actually be in the dish!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LYvAoKRIeU


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYn3edrvPpI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuSS0iiFyo

    dk

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Dec 15 12:25:33 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?

    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level.

    It seems to me, regarding classical music, that all you need to do is look at the sales numbers of a composer, or the number of views on Youtube, Spotify or whatever, and gauge for yourself what the public consensus is. People vote about what they like
    by buying and using the product.

    Not many people bother to acquire music that they don't like... do they? Just because Dan does not like Bruckner does not mean that a whole lot of other people do like Bruckner. Different strokes for different folks...

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to pnal...@gmail.com on Thu Dec 15 12:42:44 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?
    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level.

    It seems to me, regarding classical music, that all
    you need to do is look at the sales numbers of a
    composer, or the number of views on Youtube,
    Spotify or whatever, and gauge for yourself what
    the public consensus is. People vote about what
    they like by buying and using the product. Not
    many people bother to acquire music that they
    don't like... do they?

    Not so fast. The flaw in your argument is that
    people can only buy what is available. Many
    outstanding artists do not have recording
    contracts with major record labels, and/or
    do not have managers who can market
    them effectively. The market is effectively
    pre-biased by the music industry.

    Just because Dan does not like Bruckner
    does not mean that a whole lot of other
    people do like Bruckner. Different strokes
    for different folks...

    You got it all wrong. I do like Bruckner --
    in small portions, which are hard to find.
    When was the last time you had a 2 oz
    New York or Porterhouse steak? ;-)

    dk

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  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Thu Dec 15 16:07:23 2022
    On 12/15/2022 3:25 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?

    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level.

    It seems to me, regarding classical music, that all you need to do is look at the sales numbers of a composer, or the number of views on Youtube, Spotify or whatever, and gauge for yourself what the public consensus is. People vote about what they like
    by buying and using the product.

    Not many people bother to acquire music that they don't like... do they? Just because Dan does not like Bruckner does not mean that a whole lot of other people do like Bruckner. Different strokes for different folks...

    You are begging the question of whether there is a difference between what one likes and what is good. I accept that the Mona Lisa is a great painting because there is a consensus among experts that it is. But I wouldn't hang it in my living room.
    There are many movies that I love, but do not think are great. I love them despite the flaws. One could argue that there is no such thing as an expert, or that the only reason I don't like it is because I don't know enough about art, but I think those
    are weak arguments.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Thu Dec 15 13:24:41 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    You are begging the question of whether there is a difference
    between what one likes and what is good. I accept that the
    Mona Lisa is a great painting because there is a consensus
    among experts that it is. But I wouldn't hang it in my living room.

    You would end up in jail if you did.

    dk

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  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Thu Dec 15 13:31:32 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
    On 12/15/2022 3:25 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?

    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level.

    It seems to me, regarding classical music, that all you need to do is look at the sales numbers of a composer, or the number of views on Youtube, Spotify or whatever, and gauge for yourself what the public consensus is. People vote about what they
    like by buying and using the product.

    Not many people bother to acquire music that they don't like... do they? Just because Dan does not like Bruckner does not mean that a whole lot of other people do like Bruckner. Different strokes for different folks...
    You are begging the question of whether there is a difference between what one likes and what is good. I accept that the Mona Lisa is a great painting because there is a consensus among experts that it is....

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=great+art+explained+mona+lisa+

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Dec 15 13:51:20 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 12:42:47 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?
    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level.

    It seems to me, regarding classical music, that all
    you need to do is look at the sales numbers of a
    composer, or the number of views on Youtube,
    Spotify or whatever, and gauge for yourself what
    the public consensus is. People vote about what
    they like by buying and using the product. Not
    many people bother to acquire music that they
    don't like... do they?

    Not so fast. The flaw in your argument is that
    people can only buy what is available. Many
    outstanding artists do not have recording
    contracts with major record labels, and/or
    do not have managers who can market
    them effectively. The market is effectively
    pre-biased by the music industry.

    Not so fast yourself. If the works of these outstanding artists are not available, how do you even know about them? Perhaps these artists are only outstanding in your opinion, otherwise, they would be snapped up by those major record labels, that's
    exactly how those labels make money, selling outstanding artists. Perhaps these outstanding artists do not want fame and fortune and all the crap that always goes with it. If an outstanding artist's offerings are not available because they do not have an
    effective manager, whose fault is that? I'll assume that the music industry is not much different than any other industry, it is definitely biased toward making a profit, and if they can't make money selling a particular artist or a particular work of a
    particular composer then they won't be offering those particular artist's/composer's works. If there is no demand there will likely be no supply... and it just does not matter how much you or I admire that artist or composer or any particular work. I
    have read here and there that a lot of people don't think much of Glenn Gould's abilities, but on Amazon, his name results in over 10,000 hits, so the poor dumb uneducated public seems to think that he is pretty good, and wouldn't you agree?

    Just because Dan does not like Bruckner
    does not mean that a whole lot of other
    people do like Bruckner. Different strokes
    for different folks...

    You got it all wrong. I do like Bruckner --
    in small portions, which are hard to find.
    When was the last time you had a 2 oz
    New York or Porterhouse steak? ;-)

    No, I don't have it ALL wrong because there is a lot of Bruckner that you do not like. I would restate my example by now saying that just because Dan does not like a lot of the works of Bruckner does not mean that a lot of others DO like a lot/most of
    Bruckner's compositions... I'll just assume that the consensus of the general classical music audience probably like Bruckner for the most part. When I type "Bruckner" into Amazon I get 20,000 hits, so there is a LOT of Bruckner available and someone
    must be buying it. probably because they like it.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to pnal...@gmail.com on Thu Dec 15 14:31:14 2022
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:51:22 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 12:42:47 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 8:43:52 AM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

    But shouldn't there be some kind of shared
    consensus as to what is good and not good?
    Certainly NOT for art, literature, music, food,
    or anything that is consumed and experienced
    on an individual level.

    It seems to me, regarding classical music, that all
    you need to do is look at the sales numbers of a
    composer, or the number of views on Youtube,
    Spotify or whatever, and gauge for yourself what
    the public consensus is. People vote about what
    they like by buying and using the product. Not
    many people bother to acquire music that they
    don't like... do they?

    Not so fast. The flaw in your argument is that
    people can only buy what is available. Many
    outstanding artists do not have recording
    contracts with major record labels, and/or
    do not have managers who can market
    them effectively. The market is effectively
    pre-biased by the music industry.

    Not so fast yourself. If the works of these
    outstanding artists are not available, how
    do you even know about them?

    Ever heard of libraries?

    Perhaps these artists are only outstanding
    in your opinion, otherwise, they would be
    snapped up by those major record labels,

    Many are no longer active, many are already
    six feet under. The other fact you ignore is
    that major record labels "snap" arrists that
    can be marketed to wide audiences.

    that's exactly how those labels make money,
    selling outstanding artists.

    They sell artists that sell, outstanding or not.
    They also create marketing aura around the
    artists they think they can sell. It becomes a
    vicious cycle.

    Here is a real life example: Vladimir Bakk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2EdUalCdBE

    He never had a recording contract with any
    record company -- major or otherwise. He
    is known among connoisseurs as one of
    the greatest pianists ever on stage. What
    sez you?

    Perhaps these outstanding artists do not
    want fame and fortune and all the crap
    that always goes with it. If an outstanding
    artist's offerings are not available because
    they do not have an effective manager,
    whose fault is that?

    Yadda, yadda, stupid fantasies.

    I'll assume that the music industry is not
    much different than any other industry, it
    is definitely biased toward making a profit,
    and if they can't make money selling a
    particular artist or a particular work of a
    particular composer then they won't be
    offering those particular artist's/composer's
    works. If there is no demand there will likely
    be no supply... and it just does not matter
    how much you or I admire that artist or
    composer or any particular work.

    The music industry is very different from
    other industries because music, and art
    in general is not indispendable for life.

    People need to buy food and clothing,
    housing and transportation, however
    they can live without recordings and
    concerts if they cannot afford them,
    or if what they want is not available.

    There is no natural market for music.
    Record labels must create and grow
    it.

    I have read here and there that a lot of
    people don't think much of Glenn Gould's
    abilities, but on Amazon, his name results
    in over 10,000 hits, so the poor dumb
    uneducated public seems to think that
    he is pretty good, and wouldn't you agree?

    No, I don't agree at all. Popularity does
    not equate to quality. McDonald's sells
    billions of hamburgers every year. Are
    they better food than the meals served
    by the finest restaurants.

    Just because Dan does not like Bruckner
    does not mean that a whole lot of other
    people do like Bruckner. Different strokes
    for different folks...

    You got it all wrong. I do like Bruckner --
    in small portions, which are hard to find.
    When was the last time you had a 2 oz
    New York or Porterhouse steak? ;-)

    No, I don't have it ALL wrong because there
    is a lot of Bruckner that you do not like. I
    would restate my example by now saying
    that just because Dan does not like a lot of
    the works of Bruckner does not mean that a
    lot of others DO like a lot/most of Bruckner's
    compositions...

    You are completely wrong. You make random
    connections and inferences and are incapable
    of logical thinking. Read this carefully: I like
    Bruckner music a lot, I just hate the quantity
    and the manner in which it is delivered.

    I'll just assume that the consensus of the
    general classical music audience probably
    like Bruckner for the most part. When I type
    "Bruckner" into Amazon I get 20,000 hits, so
    there is a LOT of Bruckner available and
    someone must be buying it. probably
    because they like it.

    Yadda, yadda. Some like it, and many
    think they like it because they were
    brainwashed by reviewer or because
    they brainwashed themselves with
    circular arguments like the one you
    just penned.

    You are an idiot.

    dk

    PS. Taylor Swift sells more records in
    a year than Brucker sold in a century.
    Does that make her music better ?!?

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  • From Notsure01@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 03:46:13 2022
    On 12/10/22 8:46 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as effective as the composer's originals - or is that sometimes not the case? I'm not sure...

    Here's a Sacre version that I found absolutely amazing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1G3qg8dAM

    Also, I know that many composers made their own transcriptions - are
    there any worth discussing for their effectiveness or lack thereof?

    Here's a great other example of transcription, of opera this time: Notte
    e giorno faticar played by the Netherlands Wind Ensemble https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq7Pza8WaOk

    And here's a spirited performance of Shostakovich by a youth band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHOQM2AYIqY

    To me, both are enjoyable and it would be great if people could share
    their opinions and post other examples - thanks!

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 01:57:07 2022
    Marie Louise Hinrichs plays her own transcription of Hildegard con Bingen’s Ave Genorosa de Sancta Maria on a piano. I know someone who is very interested in piano, more than me, who loves this stuff, he talks about Hinrichs sounding like an angel. Iâ€
    ™m not quite as in love with piano sound as he is, nevertheless I think this is probably the high point of her Hildegard recording, because of the contrast in midrange and treble texture and timbre. I’m glad to have heard it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLkJWIdJkZs

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 02:00:40 2022
    This is one of Cherkassky’s many recordings of the Albeniz/Godowsky tango. I just think it’s really sexy music, I’ve never heard the original

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6d1vwTZanSY

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Fri Dec 16 02:27:16 2022
    On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 2:00:43 AM UTC-8, Mandryka wrote:

    This is one of Cherkassky’s many recordings of
    the Albeniz/Godowsky tango. I just think it’s really
    sexy music, I’ve never heard the original

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6d1vwTZanSY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qol-Pw6ckt4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGbj3buPr7U

    dk

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  • From Graham@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 04:10:26 2022
    On 2022-12-16 1:46 a.m., Notsure01 wrote:
    On 12/10/22 8:46 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
    I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to allow people to
    share their favorite transcriptions or arrangements - and to provide
    their thoughts on them.

    Of course, the transcriptions are not as effective as the composer's
    originals - or is that sometimes not the case? I'm not sure...

    Here's a Sacre version that I found absolutely amazing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1G3qg8dAM

    Also, I know that many composers made their own transcriptions - are
    there any worth discussing for their effectiveness or lack thereof?

    Here's a great other example of transcription, of opera this time: Notte
    e giorno faticar played by the Netherlands Wind Ensemble https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq7Pza8WaOk

    And here's a spirited performance of Shostakovich by a youth band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHOQM2AYIqY

    To me, both are enjoyable and it would be great if people could share
    their opinions and post other examples - thanks!

    Here's another performance of the Shostakovich Festival Overture by a
    brass band:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOf5gk0GMhI

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  • From Kerrison@21:1/5 to Andy Evans on Fri Dec 16 09:29:59 2022
    On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 5:16:46 PM UTC, Andy Evans wrote:
    Here are a couple of charming arrangements. I'm very partial to the Zither - Tales From the vienna Woods and so much more. So first we have a zither band playing Erst wenn's aus wird sein.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93iKhilUKHo

    And then I really love ragtime played on 2 guitars, here by Schoenberg and Laibman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u0-G8raVws&t=77s


    Mentions of "The Rite of Spring" earlier makes me wonder if this version counts ... :) ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aidKzrYAo8E

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  • From Andy Evans@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 09:16:44 2022
    Here are a couple of charming arrangements. I'm very partial to the Zither - Tales From the vienna Woods and so much more. So first we have a zither band playing Erst wenn's aus wird sein.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93iKhilUKHo

    And then I really love ragtime played on 2 guitars, here by Schoenberg and Laibman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u0-G8raVws&t=77s

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  • From Al Eisner@21:1/5 to Kerrison on Fri Dec 16 15:56:29 2022
    On Wed, 14 Dec 2022, Kerrison wrote:

    I'm not sure if "transcriptions for unusual instruments" applies in the case of Andrew Davis's orchestration of the Bach Passacaglia and Fugue but he certainly has a field day with his BBCSO performance from Germany in 2006. The theme is plucked out on
    the piano at the very start, after which we're treated to what sounds like every instrumental combination possible. In fact, if my ears didn't deceive me, I thought I detected hints of a xylophone, a glockenspiel, even a marimba at one point and possibly
    a tubular bell or two. At any rate, he out-does Respighi and Stokowski when it comes to imaginative orchestral effects in this arrangement, so lets hope he has a few more Bach transcriptions up his sleeve ... :) ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV67Ic3BTrU

    Very neat! I especially like the pace (without garish slowing-down) and
    the way it keeps building to the end.
    --
    Al Eisner

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  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Andy Evans on Fri Dec 16 19:14:29 2022
    On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:16:46 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:

    And then I really love ragtime played on 2 guitars, here by Schoenberg and Laibman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u0-G8raVws&t=77s

    Good stuff... here is a link to the entire album...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prOFJ2SQLw4&list=PLGg4P-7ZUhcavfQFS_nbkeJFrB0l7o4lk&index=2

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 20:26:45 2022
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/bsapnrcqplsuqj58z7m4x/h?dl=0&rlkey=oii6u8er93npyhqlgcrb6kj9k

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  • From Steven Bornfeld@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sat Dec 17 13:20:38 2022
    On 12/15/2022 5:22 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:19:43 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:16:59 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:47:09 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
    On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 15:02:45 UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> Frédéric Meinders must be the most underappreciated
    pianist on this planet. His piano transcriptions of music
    from Bach to Prokofiev and beyond are magnificent.

    I looked up his transcription of Jobim Caminhos Cruzados
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdF6jIWD6BQ

    But in this case there's another pianist way ahead of him
    who may be largely unknown in general but was certainly
    appreciated in his home Brazil - Amilton Godoy of the
    Zimbo Trio, a jazz trio still hugely revered by musicians.
    The Trio, launched in 1964, was one of the most influential
    groups of Brazilian music in the second half of the 20th century.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UU-zvS_HU

    Here's a link to the whole album by the Zimbo Trio - an old
    favourite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7A3wU13zo

    Here is a raw download of all of Godoy's recordings I
    found on YouTube, 137 audio files in total. There may be
    some duplicates. One can listen directly in one's browser.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/vto3z7q8cakrvsbaflrw4/h?dl=0&rlkey=i278mng00h9qhd0kocqkugthh

    Because of the volume of this collection, I will limit access
    to one week.

    Enjoy!

    dk


    Appreciate the time and effort!

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