On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 9:13:22 PM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan,
Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
Haydn's keyboard sonatas are terrific. There are plenty of good recordings around, so much so it seems it's impossible to turn in a bad performance.
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
That's why it would great if the many knowledgable folks here could
point out just a few specific recordings of the Haydn sonatas that they particularly enjoy - and I can take it from there..
Thanks!
On 12/6/22 3:24 PM, Herman wrote:
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 9:13:22 PM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan,
Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
Haydn's keyboard sonatas are terrific. There are plenty of good recordings around, so much so it seems it's impossible to turn in a bad performance.I don't doubt it, having enjoyed exploring so many of his great quartets
and symphonies over the years!
But my dilemma - and it is a wonderful one - is that with so much great
music it's hard to know where to start. I (obviously!) have a lot of
time on my hands now, and I'm interested in an enormous number of
composers and genres. I just finished intensely exploring the Messiaen Quatour - and am planning to try late Stravinsky. Also, I haven't
listened to Meistersinger in years and was hoping to set aside a little
time for that..
Consider the Haydn Baryton trios (and I wouldn't be surprised if you
have already) with 123 of them there certainly those that are stronger,
and since they are relatively obscure they may have attracted less than
first rate performers. My hope is that when (2032? 2052?) I get around
to trying them I don't end up choosing one of the weaker works!
That's why it would great if the many knowledgable folks here could
point out just a few specific recordings of the Haydn sonatas that they particularly enjoy - and I can take it from there..
Thanks!
On 12/6/22 3:24 PM, Herman wrote:Bavouzet has recorded several volumes on Chandos and his performances
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 9:13:22 PM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan,
Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
Haydn's keyboard sonatas are terrific. There are plenty of good
recordings around, so much so it seems it's impossible to turn in a
bad performance.
I don't doubt it, having enjoyed exploring so many of his great quartets
and symphonies over the years!
But my dilemma - and it is a wonderful one - is that with so much great
music it's hard to know where to start. I (obviously!) have a lot of
time on my hands now, and I'm interested in an enormous number of
composers and genres. I just finished intensely exploring the Messiaen Quatour - and am planning to try late Stravinsky. Also, I haven't
listened to Meistersinger in years and was hoping to set aside a little
time for that..
Consider the Haydn Baryton trios (and I wouldn't be surprised if you
have already) with 123 of them there certainly those that are stronger,
and since they are relatively obscure they may have attracted less than
first rate performers. My hope is that when (2032? 2052?) I get around
to trying them I don't end up choosing one of the weaker works!
That's why it would great if the many knowledgable folks here could
point out just a few specific recordings of the Haydn sonatas that they particularly enjoy - and I can take it from there..
Thanks!
least.That's why it would great if the many knowledgable folks here could
point out just a few specific recordings of the Haydn sonatas that they particularly enjoy - and I can take it from there..
Thanks!Well, the first pianist who really caught my attention was Deszo Ranki on Hungaroton. And then for a long time I played the Pogorelich performance of sonata 19 in the car all the time -- Beghin probably just as interesting for me in that sonata at
A particularly expressive one is 33. Youri Egorov recorded it, here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ds0WiQ0kwU&t=269s&ab_channel=wimmoh
That should keep you get you started.I'll be interested to hear what you make of the music -- I think it's so different from CPE Bach's or Mozart's.
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
Haydn's keyboard sonatas are terrific.
There are plenty of good recordings around,
so much so it seems it's impossible to turn
in a bad performance.
I'll be interested to hear what you
make of the music -- I think it's so
different from CPE Bach's or Mozart's.
Hamelin has a not complete set and Bavouzet a not yet complete set. I
'm not a fan of Hamelin's Haydn. Bavouzet is great if you want a consistent and excellent Haydn.
Derzhavina loves surprising her listeners. Often it's a very pleasant surprise.
Henk
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:13:22 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!Ekaterina Derzhavina leaves everybody else
in the proverbial dust:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mv16hCTAGS8VWaXS2-OTn8XkyOM1ya3Fw
Next best choice is Lubov Timofeyeva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCFP79P7Gg
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:13:22 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!Ekaterina Derzhavina leaves everybody else
in the proverbial dust:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mv16hCTAGS8VWaXS2-OTn8XkyOM1ya3Fw
Next best choice is Lubov Timofeyeva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCFP79P7Gg
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dk
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dk
On 12/6/22 7:58 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dkWhich reviews? Like this one from Gramophone:
(Stern warning -- do not read the following immediately after eating a
spicy stew!!)
"Brendel's steady illumination of Haydn is a delight. He is at once a scrupulous and a robust interpreter, setting out from a careful reading
of the text to seek the most vivid projection of Haydn's ideas—and I admire especially the way he allows boldness, even daring, to play a
part in the search. The playing is alive with a feeling of spontaneity
and the capricious side of Haydn is served as generously as the rest of
him. ''The perceptiveness and musicality of his playing may well be a revelation even to those who know that Haydn's keyboard sonatas, still shamefully neglected, are every bit as good as Mozart's''.
(Even I, who often dish out the hooey with my grandiloquent way of
writing, find this hard to swallow!)
I do read reviews - I have most of the Penguin guides, sometimes look at Fanfare and Gramophone, check the online review sites - and enjoy (most
of) "The Hurwitz Videos".
It's unclear anyway how reviews would help resolve my specific question.
A review is of a specific recording of a few particular sonatas, and wouldn't help me to navigate across 52 sonatas to choose a few to start on.
Now please don't try to talk me out of this, but wouldn't I be better
off asking a knowledgable friend for advice? Someone whose taste and preferences are familiar to me - and with whom I can then exchange
ideas? Let me call this friend "Dan" - and not something else!
Thanks for all your advice!!!
The "Gramophone" reviewer seems to be telling us several times with slight variations
in vocabulary, that while Brendel's Haydn is evidently based on a close understanding of
the scores, this is not reflected in a pu pedantic approach to the music, but one in which
the pianist is prepared to be as spontaneous and bold in his interpretation of the sonatas
as anyone else". Boiled down to this less exuberant evaluation, may this not be true?
The only way, really, to discover this is to listen. Even the short extracts available on
online record shops can help here - I use Presto Music with a bit of help from Hyperion.
Derzhavina had a more muscular approach
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 3:08:04 PM UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:
On 12/6/22 7:58 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dk
Which reviews? Like this one from Gramophone:
"Brendel's steady illumination of Haydn is a delight...
Alfred Brendel is generally disliked in this group and has been for many years. We used to get feeble jokes about BrenDULL - and, less frequently, the KoDULLy Quartet on Naxos - which surprised me because in Australia he was generally admired, and inmy opinion, rightly so.
The "Gramophone" reviewer seems to be telling us several times with slight variations in vocabulary, that while Brendel's Haydn is evidently based on a close understanding of the scores, this is not reflected in a pu pedantic approach to the music, butone in which the pianist is prepared to be as spontaneous and bold in his interpretation of the sonatas as anyone else". Boiled down to this less exuberant evaluation, may this not be true? The only way, really, to discover this is to listen.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 3:08:04 PM UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:my opinion, rightly so.
On 12/6/22 7:58 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dkWhich reviews? Like this one from Gramophone:
(Stern warning -- do not read the following immediately after eating a spicy stew!!)
"Brendel's steady illumination of Haydn is a delight. He is at once a scrupulous and a robust interpreter, setting out from a careful reading
of the text to seek the most vivid projection of Haydn's ideas—and I admire especially the way he allows boldness, even daring, to play a
part in the search. The playing is alive with a feeling of spontaneity
and the capricious side of Haydn is served as generously as the rest of him. ''The perceptiveness and musicality of his playing may well be a revelation even to those who know that Haydn's keyboard sonatas, still shamefully neglected, are every bit as good as Mozart's''.
(Even I, who often dish out the hooey with my grandiloquent way of writing, find this hard to swallow!)
I do read reviews - I have most of the Penguin guides, sometimes look at Fanfare and Gramophone, check the online review sites - and enjoy (most of) "The Hurwitz Videos".
It's unclear anyway how reviews would help resolve my specific question.
A review is of a specific recording of a few particular sonatas, and wouldn't help me to navigate across 52 sonatas to choose a few to start on.
Now please don't try to talk me out of this, but wouldn't I be better
off asking a knowledgable friend for advice? Someone whose taste and preferences are familiar to me - and with whom I can then exchange
ideas? Let me call this friend "Dan" - and not something else!
Thanks for all your advice!!!Alfred Brendel is generally disliked in this group and has been for many years. We used to get feeble jokes about BrenDULL - and, less frequently, the KoDULLy Quartet on Naxos - which surprised me because in Australia he was generally admired, and in
The "Gramophone" reviewer seems to be telling us several times with slight variations in vocabulary, that while Brendel's Haydn is evidently based on a close understanding of the scores, this is not reflected in a pu pedantic approach to the music, butone in which the pianist is prepared to be as spontaneous and bold in his interpretation of the sonatas as anyone else". Boiled down to this less exuberant evaluation, may this not be true? The only way, really, to discover this is to listen. Even the
I treasure some remembered Gramophone reviews, for their cultivated stupidity: one of their senior reviewers compared a chamber orchestra performance of Beethoven's 'Pastoral' to 'the kind of wine you buy with a screw cap on the bottle instead of acork', which proved to be (a) an unwise analogy, since virtually all Australian wines these days have metal caps as this prevents the wine being 'corked' and (b) musically wrong as far as I'm concerned, as it's a lovely lucid performance that convinced
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 9:22:55 PM UTC-8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:my opinion, rightly so.
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 3:08:04 PM UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:
On 12/6/22 7:58 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dkWhich reviews? Like this one from Gramophone:
(Stern warning -- do not read the following immediately after eating a spicy stew!!)
"Brendel's steady illumination of Haydn is a delight. He is at once a scrupulous and a robust interpreter, setting out from a careful reading of the text to seek the most vivid projection of Haydn's ideas—and I admire especially the way he allows boldness, even daring, to play a part in the search. The playing is alive with a feeling of spontaneity and the capricious side of Haydn is served as generously as the rest of him. ''The perceptiveness and musicality of his playing may well be a revelation even to those who know that Haydn's keyboard sonatas, still shamefully neglected, are every bit as good as Mozart's''.
(Even I, who often dish out the hooey with my grandiloquent way of writing, find this hard to swallow!)
I do read reviews - I have most of the Penguin guides, sometimes look at Fanfare and Gramophone, check the online review sites - and enjoy (most of) "The Hurwitz Videos".
It's unclear anyway how reviews would help resolve my specific question. A review is of a specific recording of a few particular sonatas, and wouldn't help me to navigate across 52 sonatas to choose a few to start on.
Now please don't try to talk me out of this, but wouldn't I be better off asking a knowledgable friend for advice? Someone whose taste and preferences are familiar to me - and with whom I can then exchange ideas? Let me call this friend "Dan" - and not something else!
Thanks for all your advice!!!Alfred Brendel is generally disliked in this group and has been for many years. We used to get feeble jokes about BrenDULL - and, less frequently, the KoDULLy Quartet on Naxos - which surprised me because in Australia he was generally admired, and in
but one in which the pianist is prepared to be as spontaneous and bold in his interpretation of the sonatas as anyone else". Boiled down to this less exuberant evaluation, may this not be true? The only way, really, to discover this is to listen. EvenThe "Gramophone" reviewer seems to be telling us several times with slight variations in vocabulary, that while Brendel's Haydn is evidently based on a close understanding of the scores, this is not reflected in a pu pedantic approach to the music,
cork', which proved to be (a) an unwise analogy, since virtually all Australian wines these days have metal caps as this prevents the wine being 'corked' and (b) musically wrong as far as I'm concerned, as it's a lovely lucid performance that convincedI treasure some remembered Gramophone reviews, for their cultivated stupidity: one of their senior reviewers compared a chamber orchestra performance of Beethoven's 'Pastoral' to 'the kind of wine you buy with a screw cap on the bottle instead of a
Andrew ClarkeHeard only 1 disc of the The Kodály Quartet's Haydn on Naxos a long time ago...quite dull. Not crazy about Schiff's Hadyn sonatas on Teldec either...
Canberra
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 8:18:05 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
Derzhavina had a more muscular approach
And why do you think Haydn's keyboard sonatas call for a 'muscular approach'?
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 7:03:18 PM UTC+11, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
Heard only 1 disc of the The Kodály Quartet's Haydn
on Naxos a long time ago...quite dull. Not crazy about
Schiff's Hadyn sonatas on Teldec either...
What do you mean by "dull"?
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 2:02:47 AM UTC-8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 7:03:18 PM UTC+11, Jonathan Ben Schragadove wrote:
Heard only 1 disc of the The Kodály Quartet's Haydn
on Naxos a long time ago...quite dull. Not crazy about
Schiff's Hadyn sonatas on Teldec either...
What do you mean by "dull"?I am loading the HIMARS! ;-)
dk
But why does it have to be an 'either/or', 'black/white' 'totally good / utterly despicable' game? As I'm concerned, the Brendel / Derzhavina approaches - based on the snippets I've heard - are both valid, although overall I think I might preferBrendel.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 1:04:43 PM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
Brendel.But why does it have to be an 'either/or', 'black/white' 'totally good / utterly despicable' game? As I'm concerned, the Brendel / Derzhavina approaches - based on the snippets I've heard - are both valid, although overall I think I might prefer
Andrew ClarkeI can't help but think the Haydn sonatas are ultimately no music to listen to, but music one should perform. My GF plays a couple, and I'm happy to say not at Derzhavina's breakneck speeds.
Canberra
The big Eflat major is clearly a piece to be performed for an audience, and unlike most people, I don't see it as the crown on Haydn's keyboard works. Rather the reverse. I like Haydn better as Carl Philip Emm's successor than as LvB's precursor.
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 1:04:43 PM UTC+1, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
Brendel.But why does it have to be an 'either/or', 'black/white' 'totally good / utterly despicable' game? As I'm concerned, the Brendel / Derzhavina approaches - based on the snippets I've heard - are both valid, although overall I think I might prefer
Andrew ClarkeI can't help but think the Haydn sonatas are ultimately no music to listen to, but music one should perform. My GF plays a couple, and I'm happy to say not at Derzhavina's breakneck speeds.
Canberra
The big Eflat major is clearly a piece to be performed for an audience, and unlike most people, I don't see it as the crown on Haydn's keyboard works. Rather the reverse. I like Haydn better as Carl Philip Emm's successor than as LvB's precursor.
On 12/7/22 12:22 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 3:08:04 PM UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:
On 12/6/22 7:58 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dk
Which reviews? Like this one from Gramophone:
"Brendel's steady illumination of Haydn is a delight...
Alfred Brendel is generally disliked in this group and has been for
many years. We used to get feeble jokes about BrenDULL - and, less
frequently, the KoDULLy Quartet on Naxos - which surprised me because
in Australia he was generally admired, and in my opinion, rightly so.
The "Gramophone" reviewer seems to be telling us several times with
slight variations in vocabulary, that while Brendel's Haydn is
evidently based on a close understanding of the scores, this is not
reflected in a pu pedantic approach to the music, but one in which the
pianist is prepared to be as spontaneous and bold in his
interpretation of the sonatas as anyone else". Boiled down to this
less exuberant evaluation, may this not be true? The only way, really,
to discover this is to listen. Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I just took Dan's advice and listened to both Brendel and Derzhavina do
the first movement of one of the sonatas I know already, Hoboken No. 52. While I do enjoy much of Brendel's other work, this performance was
truly dreadful!
I don't have the best vocabulary to explain why, but Brendel had a
delicate touch and just rattled it off without much expression, while Derzhavina had a more muscular approach and performed much more freely.
It made me think of the way the Mozart sonatas were once described -
Dresden China (not sure exactly what this means since we often use paper plates in my home).
I plan to do more comparative listening, but there is no contest so far...
On 12/7/22 6:58 AM, Mandryka wrote:
What I think is as follows.
If you listen to the sort of piano Haydn was writing for, the timbres
less pure than a modern piano. And I think those colours can make
some of the music more enjoyable for me to hear. On a modern piano , especially one tuned equally, it’s hard - I either need a pianist who can produce colours or can compensate for the a lack of interesting
timbre with other things.
Here’s an example of where I enjoy the effect of the overtones of a
HIP piano in Haydn sonatas
https://open.spotify.com/album/4xesq1jVUbSzZXamvrDYioTo add to the question of instruments, Haydn's career was long enough to show style changes based on the pianos he wrote for: early tabletop
pianos, middle Viennese "Mozart pianos," and late English pianos like
those heard at this link.
Obviously a simplification, but helpful in sorting and showing an
advantage of Beghin's varied instrument approach. I think the "London" sonatas translate well to the modern grand. I also enjoy Haydn on the harpsichord by Robert Hill.
What I think is as follows.
If you listen to the sort of piano Haydn was writing for, the timbres
less pure than a modern piano. And I think those colours can make
some of the music more enjoyable for me to hear. On a modern piano , especially one tuned equally, it’s hard - I either need a pianist who
can produce colours or can compensate for the a lack of interesting
timbre with other things.
Here’s an example of where I enjoy the effect of the overtones of a
HIP piano in Haydn sonatas
https://open.spotify.com/album/4xesq1jVUbSzZXamvrDYio
Here's Bavouzet talking and illustrating his approach to the E minor
sonata:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVw0q7GyuNY
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 3:21:14 PM UTC, MINe109 wrote:
On 12/7/22 6:58 AM, Mandryka wrote:
What I think is as follows.To add to the question of instruments, Haydn's career was long enough to
If you listen to the sort of piano Haydn was writing for, the timbres
less pure than a modern piano. And I think those colours can make
some of the music more enjoyable for me to hear. On a modern piano ,
especially one tuned equally, it’s hard - I either need a pianist who
can produce colours or can compensate for the a lack of interesting
timbre with other things.
Here’s an example of where I enjoy the effect of the overtones of a
HIP piano in Haydn sonatas
https://open.spotify.com/album/4xesq1jVUbSzZXamvrDYio
show style changes based on the pianos he wrote for: early tabletop
pianos, middle Viennese "Mozart pianos," and late English pianos like
those heard at this link.
Obviously a simplification, but helpful in sorting and showing an
advantage of Beghin's varied instrument approach. I think the "London"
sonatas translate well to the modern grand. I also enjoy Haydn on the
harpsichord by Robert Hill.
I don’t agree that the London sonatas translate well to modern concert grand pianos.
On 12/7/22 9:50 AM, Mandryka wrote:
I don’t agree that the London sonatas
translate well to modern concert grand
pianos.
More so the big E-flat for me, but I understand
your distinction. The D major is an odd duck on
the Steinway.
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 4:58:10 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:13:22 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!Ekaterina Derzhavina leaves everybody else
in the proverbial dust:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mv16hCTAGS8VWaXS2-OTn8XkyOM1ya3Fw
Next best choice is Lubov Timofeyeva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCFP79P7Gg
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
I'm enjoying both of these! Thank you, Dan!
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:08:00 AM UTC-8, MINe109 wrote:You could be right.
On 12/7/22 9:50 AM, Mandryka wrote:
I don’t agree that the London sonatas
translate well to modern concert grand
pianos.
More so the big E-flat for me, but I understandHaydn should only be played on
your distinction. The D major is an odd duck on
the Steinway.
Yamahas or Bösendorfers. Or on
Shigeru Kawai if one has Pletnev's
fingers. Stoneways are horrible.
dk
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 5:20:50 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
Haydn should only be played on
Yamahas or Bösendorfers. Or on
Shigeru Kawai if one has Pletnev's
fingers. Stoneways are horrible.
You could be right.
I heard Steven Osborne play Debussy
etudes on Monday, on an enormous
monster Steinway in The Wigmore
Hall. I thought it was a flop, the
instrument just isn't right for
that sort of music.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001fntx https://wigmore-hall.org.uk/live-streams/steven-osborne-debussy
Maybe the problem was Osborne
at least as much as was the piano?
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 10:41:24 PM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - oryou hear Bavouzet's 'interpretive touches' because he's explaining them in WORDS.
maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - or
maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
Thanks, everyone! This thread may have started with someone needing to
be spoonfed, but it has now grown up into an uncommonly interesting discussion.
This is RMCR at its finest - advice for newbies like me, as well as the exchanging of ideas by more experienced pros (I've been oblivious all
these years of the impact of the brand of piano. I've always thought
that - to continue the "Dresden China" reference - the food could be as appetizing when served on my paper plates).
What I found to be fascinating is something Graham kindly shared - the lecture on Youtube
with Bavouzet dicussing the interpretation of the E minor sonata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVw0q7GyuNY
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - or
maybe just too subtle for me to perceive! And Derzhavina's performances certainly have interpretation in abundance...
I also really appreciate what Andrew Clarke put so aptly:
"'Dull' is an old rmcr expression meaning "I don't like it'.
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Thanks, everyone! This thread may have started with someone needing to
be spoonfed, but it has now grown up into an uncommonly interesting discussion.
This is RMCR at its finest - advice for newbies like me, as well as the exchanging of ideas by more experienced pros (I've been oblivious all
these years of the impact of the brand of piano. I've always thought
that - to continue the "Dresden China" reference - the food could be as appetizing when served on my paper plates).
What I found to be fascinating is something Graham kindly shared - the lecture on Youtube
with Bavouzet dicussing the interpretation of the E minor sonata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVw0q7GyuNY
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - or
maybe just too subtle for me to perceive! And Derzhavina's performances certainly have interpretation in abundance...
I also really appreciate what Andrew Clarke put so aptly:
"'Dull' is an old rmcr expression meaning "I don't like it'.
But why does it have to be an 'either/or', 'black/white' 'totally good / utterly despicable' game? As I'm concerned, the Brendel / Derzhavina approaches - based on the snippets I've heard - are both valid, although overall I think I might prefer Brendel."
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can tell - I'm not a subtle person!
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM UTC, Notsure01 wrote:dynamic variation? Compare with Brendel's relatively restrained dynamics.
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can
tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Have a listen to Dershavina and Brendel in first minute of the E minor sonata 53, Hob 34. Can you hear Brendel's rubato? How does Dershavina embellish the music - does she use rubato and/or other techniques? What do you think of the way Dershavina uses
On 12/7/22 9:46 AM, Graham wrote:
Here's Bavouzet talking and illustrating his approach to the E minor sonata: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVw0q7GyuNY
Thanks! I like the emphasis on tricks and pauses. I think the opening
theme articulation obscures the time signature, a trick Haydn does with repeated notes in other pieces.
I just remembered Koroliov. His two CDs of Haydn sonatas are great -- lucid, communicative in the slow movements (without trying to milk), playful when called for. No one else has mentioned him up to now.
On 12/7/22 5:33 PM, Mandryka wrote:uses dynamic variation? Compare with Brendel's relatively restrained dynamics.
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM UTC, Notsure01 wrote:
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can >> tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Have a listen to Dershavina and Brendel in first minute of the E minor sonata 53, Hob 34. Can you hear Brendel's rubato? How does Dershavina embellish the music - does she use rubato and/or other techniques? What do you think of the way Dershavina
I did sample Brendel, Dershavina, and Hamelin - and I have a Jando disk somewhere (probably in my to-be-listened-to pile along with a hundred others) but I'm afraid to reignite the age-old debate: should the music "speak for itself" or does it need an artist to nudge things along? Anne Sofie van Otter or Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau?
For folks that are new to a work, they may need to have things blatantly spelled out (spoonfed) while those more familiar may appreciate
different approaches and perceive subtle details.
For my taste, I prefer a free interpretative approach - sadly subtlety
is lost on me...
And speaking of Messiaen, there is his quote about his Quatuor: "Do not
be afraid to exaggerate the dynamics, the accelerandos, the ritardandos, everything that renders an interpretation lively and sensitive".
I just sampled Brendel in hob. 34, and to my (20th century) ears his phrasing seems insufficiently characterized.
I've always felt that the current approach of strict adherence to the
score has to be an anomaly. The way music was performed freely on those hundred year old recordings is more like what the composer would expect...
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 12:33:00 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all canSo... you think that the way a generation of performers played in 1920 is how they sounded all the way back to 1600 or some such date?
tell - I'm not a subtle person!
For my taste, I prefer a free interpretative approach - sadly subtlety
is lost on me...
And speaking of Messiaen, there is his quote about his Quatuor: "Do not
be afraid to exaggerate the dynamics, the accelerandos, the ritardandos,
everything that renders an interpretation lively and sensitive".
I just sampled Brendel in hob. 34, and to my (20th century) ears his
phrasing seems insufficiently characterized.
I've always felt that the current approach of strict adherence to the
score has to be an anomaly. The way music was performed freely on those
hundred year old recordings is more like what the composer would expect... >>
And does that also mean they did not play whatever they did not record back in 1920?
Something different (for those not allergic to
fortepiano): the Staier recordings on DHM.
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - or
maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:28:44 PM UTC, MINe109 wrote:
On 12/7/22 3:41 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - or maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!The 11 Piano Sonatas collection is a good selection of repertoire.
I thought in No 34/1 Brendel well distinguishes musical form with tone
and articulation. He also got the 'trick' of the ambiguous meter.
There is plenty to hear in phrasing and tone color but one man's steady tempo is another's lack of rubato. I enjoyed revisiting these.
I recommended Bavouzet as a representative of current taste as I see it; Brendel is a similar example for the 70s/80s. All IMHO, of course.Beghin talks as though the big change in taste since the 70s is to do with the idea that the structure of a movement is like the structure of Quintilian’s rhetoric. I haven't heard Bavouzet by the way.
On 12/7/22 3:41 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches that Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's performance - orThe 11 Piano Sonatas collection is a good selection of repertoire.
maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
I thought in No 34/1 Brendel well distinguishes musical form with tone
and articulation. He also got the 'trick' of the ambiguous meter.
There is plenty to hear in phrasing and tone color but one man's steady tempo is another's lack of rubato. I enjoyed revisiting these.
I recommended Bavouzet as a representative of current taste as I see it; Brendel is a similar example for the 70s/80s. All IMHO, of course.
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more
interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
Aapo Häkkinen using a clavichord for a Haydn sonata.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rOEXQ1IpiKY
On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:13:22 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm
only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!Ekaterina Derzhavina leaves everybody else
in the proverbial dust:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mv16hCTAGS8VWaXS2-OTn8XkyOM1ya3Fw
Next best choice is Lubov Timofeyeva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCFP79P7Gg
Do you ever read record reviews? Or do you
expect this ng to spoon feed your lack of
initiative and intellectual curiosity?
Enjoy!
dk
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:28:44 PM UTC, MINe109 wrote:
On 12/7/22 3:41 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches thatThe 11 Piano Sonatas collection is a good selection of repertoire.
Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's
performance - or maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
I thought in No 34/1 Brendel well distinguishes musical form with
tone and articulation. He also got the 'trick' of the ambiguous
meter. There is plenty to hear in phrasing and tone color but one
man's steady tempo is another's lack of rubato. I enjoyed
revisiting these.
I recommended Bavouzet as a representative of current taste as I
see it; Brendel is a similar example for the 70s/80s. All IMHO, of
course.
Beghin talks as though the big change in taste since the 70s is to do
with the idea that the structure of a movement is like the structure
of Quintilian’s rhetoric. I haven't heard Bavouzet by the way.
On 12/8/22 11:24 AM, Mandryka wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:28:44 PM UTC, MINe109 wrote:
On 12/7/22 3:41 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches thatThe 11 Piano Sonatas collection is a good selection of repertoire.
Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's
performance - or maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
I thought in No 34/1 Brendel well distinguishes musical form with
tone and articulation. He also got the 'trick' of the ambiguous
meter. There is plenty to hear in phrasing and tone color but one
man's steady tempo is another's lack of rubato. I enjoyed
revisiting these.
I recommended Bavouzet as a representative of current taste as I
see it; Brendel is a similar example for the 70s/80s. All IMHO, of
course.
Beghin talks as though the big change in taste since the 70s is to doI found some reviews of Beghin's writings. Interesting stuff. The idea
with the idea that the structure of a movement is like the structure
of Quintilian’s rhetoric. I haven't heard Bavouzet by the way.
of Haydn guiding the performer by way of the score in a rhetorical sense isn't too different from Bavouzet the teacher considering the effects of pauses and tricks in the text.
I'm happy to reconsider Hob.XVI:42 as "the single most remarkable
example of classical oratory among Haydn's works..."
I didn't know there was correspondence from Haydn about No 49. I would
have found that useful back in college days.
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 12:33:00 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:uses dynamic variation? Compare with Brendel's relatively restrained dynamics. >> I did sample Brendel, Dershavina, and Hamelin - and I have a Jando disk
On 12/7/22 5:33 PM, Mandryka wrote:
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM UTC, Notsure01 wrote:
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can >>>> tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Have a listen to Dershavina and Brendel in first minute of the E minor sonata 53, Hob 34. Can you hear Brendel's rubato? How does Dershavina embellish the music - does she use rubato and/or other techniques? What do you think of the way Dershavina
somewhere (probably in my to-be-listened-to pile along with a hundredSo... you think that the way a generation of performers played in 1920 is how they sounded all the way back to 1600 or some such date?
others) but I'm afraid to reignite the age-old debate: should the music
"speak for itself" or does it need an artist to nudge things along? Anne
Sofie van Otter or Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau?
For folks that are new to a work, they may need to have things blatantly
spelled out (spoonfed) while those more familiar may appreciate
different approaches and perceive subtle details.
For my taste, I prefer a free interpretative approach - sadly subtlety
is lost on me...
And speaking of Messiaen, there is his quote about his Quatuor: "Do not
be afraid to exaggerate the dynamics, the accelerandos, the ritardandos,
everything that renders an interpretation lively and sensitive".
I just sampled Brendel in hob. 34, and to my (20th century) ears his
phrasing seems insufficiently characterized.
I've always felt that the current approach of strict adherence to the
score has to be an anomaly. The way music was performed freely on those
hundred year old recordings is more like what the composer would expect... >>
And does that also mean they did not play whatever they did not record back in 1920?
On 12/7/22 9:13 PM, Herman wrote:uses dynamic variation? Compare with Brendel's relatively restrained dynamics.
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 12:33:00 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
On 12/7/22 5:33 PM, Mandryka wrote:
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM UTC, Notsure01 wrote:
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can
tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Have a listen to Dershavina and Brendel in first minute of the E minor sonata 53, Hob 34. Can you hear Brendel's rubato? How does Dershavina embellish the music - does she use rubato and/or other techniques? What do you think of the way Dershavina
I've been thinking about why I'm so disappointed with Brendel's HaydnI did sample Brendel, Dershavina, and Hamelin - and I have a Jando disk >> somewhere (probably in my to-be-listened-to pile along with a hundredSo... you think that the way a generation of performers played in 1920 is how they sounded all the way back to 1600 or some such date?
others) but I'm afraid to reignite the age-old debate: should the music >> "speak for itself" or does it need an artist to nudge things along? Anne >> Sofie van Otter or Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau?
For folks that are new to a work, they may need to have things blatantly >> spelled out (spoonfed) while those more familiar may appreciate
different approaches and perceive subtle details.
For my taste, I prefer a free interpretative approach - sadly subtlety
is lost on me...
And speaking of Messiaen, there is his quote about his Quatuor: "Do not >> be afraid to exaggerate the dynamics, the accelerandos, the ritardandos, >> everything that renders an interpretation lively and sensitive".
I just sampled Brendel in hob. 34, and to my (20th century) ears his
phrasing seems insufficiently characterized.
I've always felt that the current approach of strict adherence to the
score has to be an anomaly. The way music was performed freely on those >> hundred year old recordings is more like what the composer would expect...
And does that also mean they did not play whatever they did not record back in 1920?
when so many of the piano experts here appreciate him - and then it
occurred to me what to do: listen to my imprint version!
In many similar cases, when a common tempo of a symphony seems much too
fast - or too slow - it turns out an imprint performance by Klemperer -
or Paray - had caused "brain burn-in".
For Haydn Sonata Hob. XVI:52, I acquired a 1932 performance by Horowitz
many years ago, and I just can't shake the feeling that his
interpretation is the way the work should be performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5ttAiBNxM
I haven't looked at the score, but wouldn't be surprised if, as I put it
in my post above, Horowitz didn't lack "strict adherence to the score".
He certainly varied the tempo, adjusted his touch, contrasted the
dynamics - played the score freely.
In my listening to early piano recordings, from my perspective
performers - such as Ignaz
Friedman - interpreted the scores freely and todays musicologically
correct and note-perfect performances are an anomaly. A valid question
was raised as to how I would know this - I'm not a pianist or even a musician - and would be happy to see a discussion of this issue.
As for Brendel, I listened again - carefully this time - to the E-Flat sonata and do observe that interpretive points are being made - subtly. Which approach is preferable is certainly a matter of taste, and now I
agree there is a place for both.
Thanks again to everyone for their feedback! And it would be great to
get some comments on the Horowitz performance...
While I really enjoy Haydn symphonies, quartets, trios and masses, I'm only familiar with a few of his piano sonatas. I'm wondering if Dan, Mandryka, or another kind soul could point me to some of the more interesting works and stronger performances?
As always, I'm very grateful for all your help!
On 12/7/22 9:13 PM, Herman wrote:uses dynamic variation? Compare with Brendel's relatively restrained dynamics.
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 12:33:00 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
On 12/7/22 5:33 PM, Mandryka wrote:
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM UTC, Notsure01 wrote:
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can
tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Have a listen to Dershavina and Brendel in first minute of the E minor sonata 53, Hob 34. Can you hear Brendel's rubato? How does Dershavina embellish the music - does she use rubato and/or other techniques? What do you think of the way Dershavina
I've been thinking about why I'm so disappointed with Brendel's HaydnI did sample Brendel, Dershavina, and Hamelin - and I have a Jando disk >> somewhere (probably in my to-be-listened-to pile along with a hundredSo... you think that the way a generation of performers played in 1920 is how they sounded all the way back to 1600 or some such date?
others) but I'm afraid to reignite the age-old debate: should the music >> "speak for itself" or does it need an artist to nudge things along? Anne >> Sofie van Otter or Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau?
For folks that are new to a work, they may need to have things blatantly >> spelled out (spoonfed) while those more familiar may appreciate
different approaches and perceive subtle details.
For my taste, I prefer a free interpretative approach - sadly subtlety
is lost on me...
And speaking of Messiaen, there is his quote about his Quatuor: "Do not >> be afraid to exaggerate the dynamics, the accelerandos, the ritardandos, >> everything that renders an interpretation lively and sensitive".
I just sampled Brendel in hob. 34, and to my (20th century) ears his
phrasing seems insufficiently characterized.
I've always felt that the current approach of strict adherence to the
score has to be an anomaly. The way music was performed freely on those >> hundred year old recordings is more like what the composer would expect...
And does that also mean they did not play whatever they did not record back in 1920?
when so many of the piano experts here appreciate him - and then it
occurred to me what to do: listen to my imprint version!
In many similar cases, when a common tempo of a symphony seems much too
fast - or too slow - it turns out an imprint performance by Klemperer -
or Paray - had caused "brain burn-in".
For Haydn Sonata Hob. XVI:52, I acquired a 1932 performance by Horowitz
many years ago, and I just can't shake the feeling that his
interpretation is the way the work should be performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5ttAiBNxM
I haven't looked at the score, but wouldn't be surprised if, as I put it
in my post above, Horowitz didn't lack "strict adherence to the score".
He certainly varied the tempo, adjusted his touch, contrasted the
dynamics - played the score freely.
In my listening to early piano recordings, from my perspective
performers - such as Ignaz
Friedman - interpreted the scores freely and todays musicologically
correct and note-perfect performances are an anomaly. A valid question
was raised as to how I would know this - I'm not a pianist or even a musician - and would be happy to see a discussion of this issue.
As for Brendel, I listened again - carefully this time - to the E-Flat sonata and do observe that interpretive points are being made - subtly. Which approach is preferable is certainly a matter of taste, and now I
agree there is a place for both.
Thanks again to everyone for their feedback! And it would be great to
get some comments on the Horowitz performance...
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 9:10:33 PM UTC, MINe109 wrote:
On 12/8/22 11:24 AM, Mandryka wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:28:44 PM UTC, MINe109 wrote:
On 12/7/22 3:41 PM, Notsure01 wrote:
To get back to Brendel, the sort of interpretive touches thatThe 11 Piano Sonatas collection is a good selection of repertoire.
Bavouzet discusses seem to be largely missing from Brendel's
performance - or maybe just too subtle for me to perceive!
I thought in No 34/1 Brendel well distinguishes musical form with
tone and articulation. He also got the 'trick' of the ambiguous
meter. There is plenty to hear in phrasing and tone color but one
man's steady tempo is another's lack of rubato. I enjoyed
revisiting these.
I recommended Bavouzet as a representative of current taste as I
see it; Brendel is a similar example for the 70s/80s. All IMHO, of
course.
Beghin talks as though the big change in taste since the 70s is to do with the idea that the structure of a movement is like the structureI found some reviews of Beghin's writings. Interesting stuff. The idea
of Quintilian’s rhetoric. I haven't heard Bavouzet by the way.
of Haydn guiding the performer by way of the score in a rhetorical sense isn't too different from Bavouzet the teacher considering the effects of pauses and tricks in the text.
I'm happy to reconsider Hob.XVI:42 as "the single most remarkable
example of classical oratory among Haydn's works..."
I didn't know there was correspondence from Haydn about No 49. I would have found that useful back in college days.If you're in the mood try Yu Kasuge's 42 on the Carnegie Hall disc. Just discovered it and it made me prick up my ears.
https://open.spotify.com/artist/5tcUjfUAZwX2NMjWU0fqON/discography/album
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:15:32 PM UTC-5, Notsure01 wrote:Dershavina uses dynamic variation? Compare with Brendel's relatively restrained dynamics.
On 12/7/22 9:13 PM, Herman wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 12:33:00 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
On 12/7/22 5:33 PM, Mandryka wrote:
On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM UTC, Notsure01 wrote: >>>>
There is certainly room for a variety of approaches and - as you all can
tell - I'm not a subtle person!
Have a listen to Dershavina and Brendel in first minute of the E minor sonata 53, Hob 34. Can you hear Brendel's rubato? How does Dershavina embellish the music - does she use rubato and/or other techniques? What do you think of the way
wonderfully animated and energetic. You’ve got to wonder if Haydn could have heard it would he have been delighted? I think so, but of course, that’s the stuff of science fiction.I've been thinking about why I'm so disappointed with Brendel's HaydnI did sample Brendel, Dershavina, and Hamelin - and I have a Jando disk >> somewhere (probably in my to-be-listened-to pile along with a hundred >> others) but I'm afraid to reignite the age-old debate: should the music >> "speak for itself" or does it need an artist to nudge things along? AnneSo... you think that the way a generation of performers played in 1920 is how they sounded all the way back to 1600 or some such date?
Sofie van Otter or Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau?
For folks that are new to a work, they may need to have things blatantly
spelled out (spoonfed) while those more familiar may appreciate
different approaches and perceive subtle details.
For my taste, I prefer a free interpretative approach - sadly subtlety >> is lost on me...
And speaking of Messiaen, there is his quote about his Quatuor: "Do not >> be afraid to exaggerate the dynamics, the accelerandos, the ritardandos,
everything that renders an interpretation lively and sensitive".
I just sampled Brendel in hob. 34, and to my (20th century) ears his
phrasing seems insufficiently characterized.
I've always felt that the current approach of strict adherence to the >> score has to be an anomaly. The way music was performed freely on those >> hundred year old recordings is more like what the composer would expect...
And does that also mean they did not play whatever they did not record back in 1920?
when so many of the piano experts here appreciate him - and then it occurred to me what to do: listen to my imprint version!
In many similar cases, when a common tempo of a symphony seems much too fast - or too slow - it turns out an imprint performance by Klemperer -
or Paray - had caused "brain burn-in".
For Haydn Sonata Hob. XVI:52, I acquired a 1932 performance by Horowitz many years ago, and I just can't shake the feeling that his
interpretation is the way the work should be performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5ttAiBNxM
I haven't looked at the score, but wouldn't be surprised if, as I put it in my post above, Horowitz didn't lack "strict adherence to the score".
He certainly varied the tempo, adjusted his touch, contrasted the
dynamics - played the score freely.
In my listening to early piano recordings, from my perspective
performers - such as Ignaz
Friedman - interpreted the scores freely and todays musicologically correct and note-perfect performances are an anomaly. A valid question
was raised as to how I would know this - I'm not a pianist or even a musician - and would be happy to see a discussion of this issue.
As for Brendel, I listened again - carefully this time - to the E-Flat sonata and do observe that interpretive points are being made - subtly. Which approach is preferable is certainly a matter of taste, and now I agree there is a place for both.
Thanks again to everyone for their feedback! And it would be great toThe Horowitz 1932 recording is fantastic IMO. Certainly part of the reason for it’s success is that he exploits the wide range of sonorities possible on a modern piano through touch, voicing, use of pedal and non-pedal for dry effects. It’s also
get some comments on the Horowitz performance...
Here’s another performance of a Sonata by Hayden’s contemporary, Clementi, that I find equally compelling and magical. It’s Michelangeli.
https://youtu.be/_qB9_o0t_tY
I've always loved that early Horowitz Haydn. Had an old Seraphim LP coupled with the 1930 Rach 3 (LSO, Coates).
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