I imagine that you are not proposing moving to a web forum (like TalkClassical) or a native Google group (such as SymphonyShare), but
instead changing RMCR to a "Moderated Usenet Newsgroup"? And would we be
able to find someone willing to filter out the periodic floods of
messages from textbook hawkers, italian pornographers, and the like?
And would those-who-break-the-rules be forced to leave - wouldn't that
result in the loss of valuable contributors who, while they may have unfortunate mannerisms, are also generally insightful and interesting?
If there is indeed a willingness to vote on rules and then to abide by
them, wouldn't it be easier just to manage this informally? Thus, for example, if many people here were to say "Mr Notsure, your periodic
attempts at humour are not amusing, but just irritating", then I could (hypothetically) moderate myself and stop inflicting lame jokes on this group.
Or as another example, if multiple members of the group would vote that
we should avoid personal insults and endless back-and-forth squabbles,
if we all complied wouldn't that achieve our goal of making RMCR a
pleasant and welcoming environment - but without all the fuss of formal moderation?
Le's now see what any of the other interested parties think. I'd be glad
to provide a draft of "RMCR Guidelines" if there is agreement...
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 3:59:31 AM UTC+1, Notsure01 wrote:
I imagine that you are not proposing moving to a web forum (like TalkClassical) or a native Google group (such as SymphonyShare), but instead changing RMCR to a "Moderated Usenet Newsgroup"? And would we be able to find someone willing to filter out the periodic floods of
messages from textbook hawkers, italian pornographers, and the like?
And would those-who-break-the-rules be forced to leave - wouldn't that result in the loss of valuable contributors who, while they may have unfortunate mannerisms, are also generally insightful and interesting?
If there is indeed a willingness to vote on rules and then to abide by them, wouldn't it be easier just to manage this informally? Thus, for example, if many people here were to say "Mr Notsure, your periodic attempts at humour are not amusing, but just irritating", then I could (hypothetically) moderate myself and stop inflicting lame jokes on this group.
Or as another example, if multiple members of the group would vote that
we should avoid personal insults and endless back-and-forth squabbles,
if we all complied wouldn't that achieve our goal of making RMCR a
pleasant and welcoming environment - but without all the fuss of formal moderation?
Le's now see what any of the other interested parties think. I'd be glad
to provide a draft of "RMCR Guidelines" if there is agreement...
It is fashionable these days - at all levels - to want to regulate the behavior of the others. Until now, RMCR has been a sanctuary. I think we should keep it that way.
Henk
It is fashionable these days - at all levels - to want to regulate the behavior of the others. Until now, RMCR has been a sanctuary. I think we should keep it that way.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:10:44 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
It is fashionable these days - at all levels - to want to regulate the behavior of the others. Until now, RMCR has been a sanctuary. I think we should keep it that way.
I believe Mr Sure and I empathically talked about "SELF-moderation", at least that's what I did.
I think it's in the title of this topic. So I guess it would be pretty obvious.
"RMCR Guidelines" and self-moderation?
Henk
The whole "moderator" issue looks like a red herring to me.
If there is the software structure on RMCR to install a moderator who can remove and chastize I haven't seen it yet.
Also, the internet happens to be 'on' 24/7, so you'd need three or more guys who would "moderate" in various shifts.
That's about a quarter of the daily active RMCR population, just look at the stats.
It's a fantasy.
The whole "moderator" issue looks like a red herring to me.
If there is the software structure on RMCR to install a moderator who can remove and chastize I haven't seen it yet.
Also, the internet happens to be 'on' 24/7, so you'd need three or more guys who would "moderate" in various shifts.
That's about a quarter of the daily active RMCR population, just look at the stats.
It's a fantasy.
The whole "moderator" issue looks like a red herring to me.
If there is the software structure on RMCR to install a moderator who can remove and chastize I haven't seen it yet.
Also, the internet happens to be 'on' 24/7, so you'd need three or more guys who would "moderate" in various shifts.
That's about a quarter of the daily active RMCR population, just look at the stats.
It's a fantasy.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:23:18 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
"RMCR Guidelines" and self-moderation?
Henk
I'm not responsible for Mr. Sure's ideas or choice of words.
It's pretty clear that I have always said, "just behave as you would do in real life, towards real people" and you don't need rules or moderation by 3d parties.
Free speech absolutism is tedious.
RMCR is no "sanctuary". Just a bunch of guys on the internet.
It's just not practical to moderate
this group - what about those great
textbook bargains - but we could
certainly moderate our own behavior!
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:23:18 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
"RMCR Guidelines" and self-moderation?
HenkI'm not responsible for Mr. Sure's ideas or choice of words.
It's pretty clear that I have always said, "just behave as you would do in real life, towards real people" and you don't need rules or moderation by 3d parties.
Free speech absolutism is tedious.
RMCR is no "sanctuary". Just a bunch of guys on the internet.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:52:26 PM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
The whole "moderator" issue looks like a red herring to me.
If there is the software structure on RMCR to install a moderator who can remove and chastize I haven't seen it yet.
Also, the internet happens to be 'on' 24/7, so you'd need three or more guys who would "moderate" in various shifts.
That's about a quarter of the daily active RMCR population, just look at the stats.
It's a fantasy.
Obviously the stats don't tally the age of these regulars, but it's pretty clear many of 'em over very old, and consequently RMCR will dwindle and straightline in something like five years time.
Especially since some of these very senior members do everything in their power to keep younger newbies out.
Which reminds me that I haven't heard from Frank B. (whom I like) in quite a while. I'm hoping all's well with him.
I've decided to stay out of the fray this time. I'm fine, thank you.
Your problems will solve themselves. Like your problem with most of us being of a senior age. You have only to stay young yourself.
On Dec 5, 2022, Herman wrote
(in article<686db5d6-7d50-49b4...@googlegroups.com>):
The above was copy-pasted from the predictably chaotic Stravinsky Travesty topic.
In essence it's pretty easy, virtually all 'members' of this group behave like responsible adults, just like they would In Real Life.
Also, most people don't use this ng as a sort of podium to promote a outsize
non-IRL version of themselves. They just discuss music, recordings and other
subjects of interest.
To most people it's a no-brainer you don't shout in all-caps at other posters
or call them names. Even if you felt like that for a moment, it always takes
time to do so, so you don't.
However, this is an invitation to contribute ideas.This post is just for clarification and is not meant as an opinion as to whether we need to be more civil to each other. The bottom line is that you cannot physically moderate a newsgroup because there is no central server hosting usenet groups
The whole "moderator" issue looks like a red herring to me.
If there is the software structure on RMCR to install a moderator who can remove and chastize I haven't seen it yet.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 1:56:34 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Your problems will solve themselves. Like your problem with most of us being of a senior age. You have only to stay young yourself.
Many people would not call me "young" either, it's obviously a relative matter.
What I was trying to say, if all RMCRers are, let's say, of an advanced age, and younger newbies are made to feel unwelcome, RMCR will peter out in five to ten years.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world.
The above was copy-pasted from the predictably chaotic Stravinsky Travesty topic.
In essence it's pretty easy, virtually all 'members' of this group behave like responsible adults, just like they would In Real Life.
Also, most people don't use this ng as a sort of podium to promote a outsize non-IRL version of themselves. They just discuss music, recordings and other subjects of interest.
To most people it's a no-brainer you don't shout in all-caps at other posters or call them names. Even if you felt like that for a moment, it always takes time to do so, so you don't.
However, this is an invitation to contribute ideas.
RMCR is not a great place for newbies - and never will be anymore. Nowadays we have YT, Spotify, etc. We can make up our own minds
The unique selling point of RMCR is that we have known each other for over a decade, and pretty well thanks to OTs and personal clashes.
So chances are RMCR will be no more in five to ten years from now. The world won't notice.
Henk
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 4:42:15 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
RMCR is not a great place for newbies - and never will be anymore. Nowadays we have YT, Spotify, etc. We can make up our own minds
The unique selling point of RMCR is that we have known each other for over a decade, and pretty well thanks to OTs and personal clashes.
So chances are RMCR will be no more in five to ten years from now. The world won't notice.
HenkYou may be right. Personally though, I find the occasional immigration of a newbie, such as Mr IsHeSure, refreshing.
Is there evidence that any veterans (which ones) left because of the "toxicity" as opposed to dying, illness, losing interest or something else?
Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 16:51:35 UTC+1 schreef Herman:
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 4:42:15 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
You may be right. Personally though, I find the occasional immigration of a newbie, such as Mr IsHeSure, refreshing.
RMCR is not a great place for newbies - and never will be anymore. Nowadays we have YT, Spotify, etc. We can make up our own minds
The unique selling point of RMCR is that we have known each other for over a decade, and pretty well thanks to OTs and personal clashes.
So chances are RMCR will be no more in five to ten years from now. The world won't notice.
Henk
All newbies are welcome, old or young. I'd also love to see more diversity. But even veterans left us, and for good reason. RMCR isn't a safe environment - and I must add, make it safe, and it won't be RMCR any more.
Henk
Is there evidence that any veterans (which ones) left because of the "toxicity" as opposed to dying, illness, losing interest or something else?
Occasionally I glance at one of those ancient topics gggggg resuscitates (usually for no reason I can see) and the difference in tone, depth, information and also friendliness and courtesy just blows me away.
This is why I joined fifteen ago, or something (I have no idea, really, when I did).
So I can imagine people leave because the group has ceased to be what it used to be.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 5:02:43 PM UTC, Herman wrote:was involved in about Josquin and Cage. So on the whole I think rmcr is not such a terrible place.
Occasionally I glance at one of those ancient topics gggggg resuscitates (usually for no reason I can see) and the difference in tone, depth, information and also friendliness and courtesy just blows me away.Yes of course but the fact remains that this group can be helpful, at least in the sense of providing some signposts of things to listen for, and to. That was the case for me in threads I started on Scriabin, Braxton and James Tenney, and discussions I
This is why I joined fifteen ago, or something (I have no idea, really, when I did).
So I can imagine people leave because the group has ceased to be what it used to be.
The unique selling point of RMCR is that we have known each other for over a decade, and pretty well thanks to OTs and personal clashes.
The few actual moderated newsgroups that were created in the 1980's
required the poster to send the article to a separate address first
to be "approved" before it was posted. Those no longer exist and
would not work in the present environment.
Yes of course but the fact remains that this group can be helpful,
at least in the sense of providing some signposts of things to
listen for, and to.
On 12/5/2022 11:12 AM, HT wrote:
Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 16:51:35 UTC+1 schreef Herman:
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 4:42:15 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote: >>>>
RMCR is not a great place for newbies - and never will be anymore.You may be right. Personally though, I find the occasional
Nowadays we have YT, Spotify, etc. We can make up our own minds
The unique selling point of RMCR is that we have known each other
for over a decade, and pretty well thanks to OTs and personal clashes. >>>>
So chances are RMCR will be no more in five to ten years from now.
The world won't notice.
Henk
immigration of a newbie, such as Mr IsHeSure, refreshing.
All newbies are welcome, old or young. I'd also love to see more
diversity. But even veterans left us, and for good reason. RMCR isn't
a safe environment - and I must add, make it safe, and it won't be
RMCR any more.
Henk
Is there evidence that any veterans (which ones) left because of the "toxicity" as opposed to dying, illness, losing interest or something else?
In article <2d33abc2-847e-438e...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes of course but the fact remains that this group can be helpful,Yes, I find the group useful for finding things -- usually new
at least in the sense of providing some signposts of things to
listen for, and to.
releases -- that interest me, but that I don't otherwise notice.
There were decades where I basically just skimmed, but I would still
note new things. I'd be happy to have more actual music discussion
too, but as others have noted, besides being off topic, the OT
"discussions" tend to be of very low quality as well.
I think discussions about music are low quality in every English
language music forum I read: this one is no worse than the others.
In article <24c80ffa-6a94-4391...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
I think discussions about music are low quality in every EnglishThe music discussions are the best... not perfect, but more people
language music forum I read: this one is no worse than the others.
actually know what they're talking about! Plus, you know, we signed
up for that.
In article <24c80ffa-6a94-4391-a6ed-3042f021cdfdn@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
I think discussions about music are low quality in every English
language music forum I read: this one is no worse than the others.
The music discussions are the best... not perfect, but more people
actually know what they're talking about! Plus, you know, we signed
up for that.
It just seemed with the moderated newsgroups I knew of that the
moderation just seemed to stop because the individual involved
either didn't want to do it anymore or just stoped without any
explanation.
Which reminds me that I haven't heard from Frank B. (whom I like) in quite a while. I'm hoping all's well with him.
In article <0001HW.293E43DA0043BB9630E42238F@news-central.giganews.com>,
Paul Goodman <goodmanp@comcast.net> wrote:
The few actual moderated newsgroups that were created in the 1980's
required the poster to send the article to a separate address first
to be "approved" before it was posted. Those no longer exist and
would not work in the present environment.
There are still functioning moderated groups. But converting an
existed group to moderated was long deprecated, and in today's
Usenet, is definitely not recommended. Most sites would leave the
group marked as unmoderated.
And just to be clear: I am the person who makes the Usenet moderation system, in general, function. There does not exist a person with
more knowledge of this situation.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 4:05:08 AM, herman wrote:
Which reminds me that I haven't heard from Frank B. (whom I like) in quite a while. I'm hoping all's well with him.I'm fine, too. Whom you also like.
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