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  • Is there a Funeral March hiding inside the Moonlight?

    From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 3 02:28:52 2022
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIE2Tdl5CWk

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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 3 03:59:28 2022
    Op zaterdag 3 december 2022 om 11:28:55 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIE2Tdl5CWk

    I hear no funeral march, just a typical Beethovenian slow movement. The concept is fine. The first movement no longer stands in romantic isolation, but is an appropriate introduction to the following movements.

    The sound (and perhaps the performance) could have been better.

    Henk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Sat Dec 3 04:55:18 2022
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 3:59:32 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op zaterdag 3 december 2022 om 11:28:55 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIE2Tdl5CWk

    I hear no funeral march, just a typical Beethovenian slow movement.

    That is exactly it! They are all funeral marches, in an extended
    sense. Square. Slow. Heavy. Contrite and filled with fake emotion.

    The concept is fine.

    "Concepts" are irrelevant in performing arts.
    They are literary and philosophical notions.

    The first movement no longer stands in romantic isolation,
    but is an appropriate introduction to the following movements.

    Then what is its point ?!?

    The sound (and perhaps the performance) could have been better.

    I generally like Kemal Gekic very much, however his reading of
    the Moonshine is almost as bad as Gould's.

    dk

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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 3 05:57:01 2022
    Op zaterdag 3 december 2022 om 13:55:21 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    I hear no funeral march, just a typical Beethovenian slow movement.
    That is exactly it! They are all funeral marches, in an extended
    sense. Square. Slow. Heavy. Contrite and filled with fake emotion.

    In his slow movements, Beethoven is at his best. Anyone who doesn't like his slow movements doesn't like Beethoven.

    The concept is fine.
    "Concepts" are irrelevant in performing arts. > They are literary and philosophical notions.

    It is essential, I would say, especially in the performing arts. For example, performing "Julius Caesar" in its original Shakespearean context or in the context of Elon Musk's Twitter escapade.

    The first movement no longer stands in romantic isolation,
    but is an appropriate introduction to the following movements.
    Then what is its point ?!?

    The point is: to be part of a Beethoven sonata, like the first movement of the Hammerklavier (which I only listen to because of what follows).

    The sound (and perhaps the performance) could have been better.
    I generally like Kemal Gekic very much, however his reading of
    the Moonshine is almost as bad as Gould's.

    I liked Gekic's version of Liszt's TEs, not everything (or even most) he does. His Moonshine was a surprise - but not a disaster. I've heard worse, mostly romantic, versions.

    BTW, HJL's technical skill allows her to trivialize any composition she lays her hands on.

    Henk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sat Dec 3 05:24:29 2022
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 4:55:21 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 3:59:32 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op zaterdag 3 december 2022 om 11:28:55 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIE2Tdl5CWk

    I hear no funeral march, just a typical Beethovenian slow movement.
    That is exactly it! They are all funeral marches, in an extended
    sense. Square. Slow. Heavy. Contrite and filled with fake emotion.

    It is perfectly possible to play the Moonshine in a
    fluid, non-square, non-metronomic way. Like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc0adcAKWrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUYma8nn-xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDJSG6u3LEc

    dk

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  • From bartholomew cher@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 3 10:50:19 2022
    do you like posting rubbish Dan

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to barthol...@gmail.com on Sun Dec 4 17:20:32 2022
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 10:50:22 AM UTC-8, barthol...@gmail.com wrote:

    do you like posting rubbish Dan

    Why not?

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Dec 4 17:21:30 2022
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:24:32 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 4:55:21 AM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 3:59:32 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op zaterdag 3 december 2022 om 11:28:55 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIE2Tdl5CWk

    I hear no funeral march, just a typical Beethovenian slow movement.
    That is exactly it! They are all funeral marches, in an extended
    sense. Square. Slow. Heavy. Contrite and filled with fake emotion.

    It is perfectly possible to play the Moonshine in a
    fluid, non-square, non-metronomic way. Like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc0adcAKWrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUYma8nn-xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDJSG6u3LEc


    Here's another one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwzgonkVc8

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Mon Dec 5 02:41:56 2022
    On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 02:21:33 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    Here's another one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwzgonkVc8

    The first part is easier to listen to than HJLim's.

    We have to agree to disagree. HJ really turns this
    work into a rare and unique delight. She is the only
    pianist I've ever heard who defeats the metronome
    every time she touches a key.

    The rest is noise. But maybe I am biased. I have
    never understood why the Neuhauses are part of
    the Russian Piano School. Compared to the others,
    they have very little to offer.

    Well, we don't get to define the Russian Piano School.

    For your reference, the 3 major piano teachers, really
    the pillars of the Moscow Conservatory were Igumnov,
    Neuhaus Sr, and Alexander Goldenweiser. The next
    generation were Yakov Zak, Yakov Flier, Feinberg,
    and Stanislav Neuhaus.

    Outside of Moscow, Anastasia Virsaladze was the
    most influential teacher in Tbilisi, which produced
    Dmitri Bashkirov, Eliso Virsaladze, Rudolf Kehrer
    (the latter however studied with Neuhaus as well),
    and more recently Khatia Buniatishvili.

    In St. Petersburg the key teachers were Glazunov,
    Leonid Nikolayev, and Samary Savshinsky.

    I gather that by and large you do not like the way
    Russian pianists interpret Beethoven. It is your
    constitutional right to hold opinions that differ
    from those of others. Just make sure not to
    disagree with Herman. Apparently he lives
    close enough to harm you.

    dk

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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 5 02:23:00 2022
    Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 02:21:33 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    Here's another one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwzgonkVc8

    The first part is easier to listen to than HJLim's. The rest is noise. But maybe I am biased. I have never understood why the Neuhauses are part of the Russian Piano School. Compared to the others, they have very little to offer.

    Henk

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  • From Tatonik@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 5 11:15:02 2022
    On 12/5/22 4:23 AM, HT wrote:

    Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 02:21:33 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    Here's another one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwzgonkVc8

    The first part is easier to listen to than HJLim's. The rest is
    noise. But maybe I am biased. I have never understood why the
    Neuhauses are part of the Russian Piano School. Compared to the
    others, they have very little to offer.

    Henk

    Each movement is worse than the last. To my ears the third movement was reminiscent of a train crash. At the end I don't perceive an idea,
    feeling, drama, nor a sense of beauty, so I'm not sure what's left. Is
    this typical or was he just having a bad day? Another possibility, I
    suppose, is that I need new ears. But do I really want new ears in
    order to listen to something like this?

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  • From Pluted Pup@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Mon Dec 5 11:52:21 2022
    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 02:41:56 -0800, Dan Koren wrote:

    On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 02:21:33 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    Here's another one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwzgonkVc8

    The first part is easier to listen to than HJLim's.

    We have to agree to disagree. HJ really turns this
    work into a rare and unique delight. She is the only
    pianist I've ever heard who defeats the metronome
    every time she touches a key.

    Non-metronomic playing can be a good thing, but HJ Lim is
    too fast.

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  • From Kerrison@21:1/5 to Pluted Pup on Mon Dec 5 14:59:07 2022
    On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 7:52:30 PM UTC, Pluted Pup wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 02:41:56 -0800, Dan Koren wrote:

    On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-8, hvt...xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op maandag 5 december 2022 om 02:21:33 UTC+1 schreef dan....gmail.com:
    Here's another one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwzgonkVc8

    The first part is easier to listen to than HJLim's.

    We have to agree to disagree. HJ really turns this
    work into a rare and unique delight. She is the only
    pianist I've ever heard who defeats the metronome
    every time she touches a key.
    Non-metronomic playing can be a good thing, but HJ Lim is
    too fast.


    And then there's this ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZntmrYF54I

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